Dublin Bus - Major Service Expansion Announced

trellheim · 07-10-2018 4:05pm

You'll find that is most people. But we know if we privatized it totally we'd end up with ruthless cut throat competition and one private monopoly

The NTA set out what bus services are to be run .... I am not sure how you get to cut throat competition from there

hmmm · 07-10-2018 4:56pm

XPS_Zero wrote: »

But we know if we privatized it totally we'd end up with ruthless cut throat competition and one private monopoly (and we already have enough issues with du-opolies and cartels in insurance and communications in this country).

Privatisation has done wonders for opening up cheaper flights & options for Irish people. Without privatisation we'd still be stuck with paying AL a small fortune to fly to a small number of destinations.

Stephen15 · 07-10-2018 5:35pm

hmmm wrote: »

Privatisation has done wonders for opening up cheaper flights & options for Irish people. Without privatisation we'd still be stuck with paying AL a small fortune to fly to a small number of destinations.

So do you want an outside of London style UK style system. That system dosen't work as the UK. Imagine say going from Santry into town but only having a monthly for the 16 and not being able to use the 41 or the 33 even if they come first useless system. TfGM in Manchester is currently trying to take back control of Manchester's buses and tender them out as the current system is not working.

Also in many places around the UK the council has had to step back in order to tender out less profitable routes. Many councils across the UK are trying to pick up the pieces.

Zebra3 · 07-10-2018 7:33pm

hmmm wrote: »

Privatisation has done wonders for opening up cheaper flights & options for Irish people. Without privatisation we'd still be stuck with paying AL a small fortune to fly to a small number of destinations.

Apples.

Oranges.

dfx- · 07-10-2018 11:52pm

Amirani wrote: »

If you consider travelling 7km in an hour to be great, then fair enough. The 16 from Rathfarnham to College Green around 8am is a shambles and needs fixing, hopefully BusConnects will do this.

By renaming it as a "spine", giving it a letter and number and then pretending it's different.

Generally, the south half of the 16 is the most neglected artery route in the city. Most of the focus on the route is the northern half. And the only thing keeping the 13 off being the worst route.

sharper · 08-10-2018 10:36am

OscarMIlde wrote: »

I do welcome the 66E though, it is needed, the people of Easton have no bus service apart from some 66x buses, which often don't show in the morning. With all the new developments planned in the area it is needed. A similar service for Aghards road route in Celbridge would be great.

It's a shame they didn't run the 66E through chapelizod bypass to compensate for the extra running time.

I'll be interested to see what actual improvements the 66 gets. The last improvement was just an extra peak time and term time only service from Maynooth to Dublin because so many university students need it.

They also seem very reluctant to improve the express services. You'd think they'd be a money maker since they're all full.

markpb · 08-10-2018 10:52am

dfx- wrote: »

By renaming it as a "spine", giving it a letter and number and then pretending it's different.

I know you're being deliberately obtuse now. Renumbering the routes is to make it easier for people who are unfamiliar with the system. It has nothing to do with improving the on-time performance and the only person suggesting that it has is you.

bk · 08-10-2018 1:17pm

markpb wrote: »

I know you're being deliberately obtuse now. Renumbering the routes is to make it easier for people who are unfamiliar with the system.

The above is the cherry on top, but the real benefit is to allow routes that currently overlap to be scheduled as one so they are less likely to bunch.

Currently routes like the 1, 16, 13, etc. are all scheduled separately, despite overlapping for long sections of their routes. As a result you could have a 1, 13 and 16 all leaving O'Connell St, from different stops at the same time, which really doesn't make any sense.

Scheduling them all together as one meta route, makes a lot more sense, as does operating from the same stops. Of course it wouldn't completely solve bunching problems, you still have congestion, but at the moment we aren't even trying. IMO this will be a very welcome step in the right direction.

markpb · 08-10-2018 2:52pm

bk wrote: »

The above is the cherry on top, but the real benefit is to allow routes that currently overlap to be scheduled as one so they are less likely to bunch.

Currently routes like the 1, 16, 13, etc. are all scheduled separately, despite overlapping for long sections of their routes. As a result you could have a 1, 13 and 16 all leaving O'Connell St, from different stops at the same time, which really doesn't make any sense.

Scheduling them all together as one meta route, makes a lot more sense, as does operating from the same stops. Of course it wouldn't completely solve bunching problems, you still have congestion, but at the moment we aren't even trying. IMO this will be a very welcome step in the right direction.

There's nothing stopping DB/NTA doing that today.

cgcsb · 08-10-2018 3:41pm

Why are people still not understanding the difference between wholesale privatization, as witnessed in the UK, with the shambolic 'bus wars'. And the system of tendering for operators that has been running VERY successfully on Dublin's luas system for almost 2 decades?

Why is the national origin of one of the tendering companies relevant? More relevant than Veolia's routes?

bk · 08-10-2018 3:49pm

markpb wrote: »

There's nothing stopping DB/NTA doing that today.

Sure, nothing really. But making those changes are the hard part, schedules, rosters, depot arrangements, etc. The changes to work practices around such a change, those are the "hard" part.

If you do that you might as well rename them too so that it is easier for people unfamiliar with those areas to use it to. Relatively speaking that is the very easy part. Just a minor change to bus stop signs and the screen on the bus, no big deal.

It wouldn't make sense to go through all those hard changes, just for the public not to realise they could also jump on a passing 1, as they normally take the 16. Why wouldn't you also simplify the network to make it easier to use at the same time. The KISS principle.

dfx- · 08-10-2018 3:53pm

The 1 isn't much use to the southern half of the 16.

The 16 is an unsolvable problem without bus priority or a continuous bus lane the whole way from Marlay park to the Airport. One of the rare routes where better frequency and capacity wouldn't improve it.

bk · 08-10-2018 4:00pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Why are people still not understanding the difference between wholesale privatization, as witnessed in the UK, with the shambolic 'bus wars'. And the system of tendering for operators that has been running VERY successfully on Dublin's luas system for almost 2 decades?

Why is the national origin of one of the tendering companies relevant? More relevant than Veolia's routes?

Because they don't want to understand it. They care more about their idealistic political views then doing what is actually best for the people who use the service everyday.

They don't want to recognise or admit that the real world is full of shades of grey or try and understand it, instead they want to drive their political ideology with fearmongering about simplistic "public" versus "private".

n97 mini · 08-10-2018 4:05pm

sharper wrote: »

It's a shame they didn't run the 66E through chapelizod bypass to compensate for the extra running time.

Terminus should be in Celbridge instead of Maynooth. Would alleviate the situation with the 67 somewhat, and would connect Celbridge and Leixlip.

cgcsb · 08-10-2018 4:50pm

bk wrote: »

Because they don't want to understand it. They care more about their idealistic political views then doing what is actually best for the people who use the service everyday.

They don't want to recognise or admit that the real world is full of shades of grey or try and understand it, instead they want to drive their political ideology with fearmongering about simplistic "public" versus "private".

And even 'Irish v British' as if we weren't already living in a globalised world where company origin means next to nothing.

.G. · 08-10-2018 6:37pm

Are the new buses DB are getting going to be in the TFI livery or has that all been knocked on the head?

Qrt · 08-10-2018 7:02pm

superg wrote: »

Are the new buses DB are getting going to be in the TFI livery or has that all been knocked on the head?

There's around 14 Dublin Buses in the Harris/Isuzu place on the Nangor road, if that's where they repaint them, then maybe.

Chris_5339762 · 08-10-2018 7:04pm

dfx- wrote: »

The 16 is an unsolvable problem without bus priority or a continuous bus lane the whole way from Marlay park to the Airport. One of the rare routes where better frequency and capacity wouldn't improve it.

Serious question: Why would a continuous bus lane NOT be an option? Surely thats what proper public transport should do?

XPS_Zero · 08-10-2018 7:53pm

Exactly, so since total privatization would not be there with the NTA, you were arguing with a point I never made slapstick.

Total privatization would mean the routes were set by the state and any operator could join say route 46a and compete on fares, drivers, bus quality, time, etc etc
It would lead to cut throat competition because there would be no NTA setting those ^ standards, if there was it would not be private.

People are the same with other areas, they call Blackrock and Gonzaga private schools when they are no such thing, they are independent public schools (as all are) that get govt money they just don't participate in the free fees scheme. Some people see the world through political ideology only and just can't help themselves.

It's about how you want to see things not how they actually are. Calling this privatization if you are opposed to such as I describe early in this post, is very unwise from a PR pov, because people will look at it and say "yep, I like this, privatize the whole lot, hell privatize the DART line!" and they'll say that to focus groups and pollsters, then they, and you, will get something very unlike what you expected.

Yer Da sells Avon · 08-10-2018 8:02pm

Qrt wrote: »

There's around 14 Dublin Buses in the Harris/Isuzu place on the Nangor road, if that's where they repaint them, then maybe.

They belong to Go Ahead. They're temporarily being stored there while concrete is laid at the back of the garage.

.G. · 08-10-2018 8:27pm

Qrt wrote: »

There's around 14 Dublin Buses in the Harris/Isuzu place on the Nangor road, if that's where they repaint them, then maybe.

They used to be painted in a place in Tallaght. Not sure if they still are.

But I'm talking about the brand new ones on order, wondering what livery they'll be delivered in. The TFI one is growing on me.

AlekSmart · 08-10-2018 8:43pm

Qrt wrote: »

There's around 14 Dublin Buses in the Harris/Isuzu place on the Nangor road, if that's where they repaint them, then maybe.

These are GAI vehicles which were moved temporarily to facilitate groundworks in GAI's Ballymount facility.

dfx- · 08-10-2018 9:45pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Serious question: Why would a continuous bus lane NOT be an option? Surely thats what proper public transport should do?

How much disruption would that bring to built up and residential areas it travels through in Rathfarnham, Harolds Cross and Terenure and the very tight turn onto the SCR in either direction and Camden St?

The northside of the 16 is child's play by comparison.

Stephen15 · 08-10-2018 10:12pm

superg wrote: »

They used to be painted in a place in Tallaght. Not sure if they still are.

But I'm talking about the brand new ones on order, wondering what livery they'll be delivered in. The TFI one is growing on me.

The GAI buses were being repainted in Volvo/Irish Commercials out in Naas I believe. I think DB buses go there too for warranty work.

OscarMIlde · 09-10-2018 9:17am

n97 mini wrote: »

sharper wrote: »

It's a shame they didn't run the 66E through chapelizod bypass to compensate for the extra running time.

Terminus should be in Celbridge instead of Maynooth. Would alleviate the situation with the 67 somewhat, and would connect Celbridge and Leixlip.

I think there should be an orbital route connecting Leixlip-Maynooth-Celbridge in a loop. It makes sense considering the range of businesses around Backweston, Intel in Leixlip, and the University in Maynooth. That would leave the city centre routes free to go straight to town rather than getting stuck in the next town.

Amirani · 09-10-2018 11:21am

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Serious question: Why would a continuous bus lane NOT be an option? Surely thats what proper public transport should do?

Current routing makes it very difficult, Terenure particularly is a bottleneck that can't really be fixed.

BusConnects aims to switch the current 16 routing to go through Rathmines where it will have priority measures for pretty much its entirety. There's no reason that the 16 needs to go through Terenure > Harold's Cross > Leonard's Corner, alternative routes can be provided here on less pressurised buses.

Rechuchote · 11-10-2018 7:42am

Amirani wrote: »

Current routing makes it very difficult, Terenure particularly is a bottleneck that can't really be fixed.

BusConnects aims to switch the current 16 routing to go through Rathmines where it will have priority measures for pretty much its entirety. There's no reason that the 16 needs to go through Terenure > Harold's Cross > Leonard's Corner, alternative routes can be provided here on less pressurised buses.

Speaking as one who lives in Harold's Cross, I disagree completely. The 16 is a much used local route. But as far as I know (from postings by several local residents' association) the plan is not to put the 16 through Rathmines, but to continue it through Harold's Cross - but madly, it wouldn't serve the airport any more on its northern end.

It's also planned to make it much less frequent - in fact the whole Bus Connects fludge seems to involve far less frequency - the spine that goes along the Lower Kimmage Road (with, they imagine, no cycling allowed on that road) is planned to be around every 25 minutes, far, far less frequent than current buses.

Qrt · 11-10-2018 8:46am

Rechuchote wrote: »

Speaking as one who lives in Harold's Cross, I disagree completely. The 16 is a much used local route. But as far as I know (from postings by several local residents' association) the plan is not to put the 16 through Rathmines, but to continue it through Harold's Cross - but madly, it wouldn't serve the airport any more on its northern end.

It's also planned to make it much less frequent - in fact the whole Bus Connects fludge seems to involve far less frequency - the spine that goes along the Lower Kimmage Road (with, they imagine, no cycling allowed on that road) is planned to be around every 25 minutes, far, far less frequent than current buses.

The F spine is meant to be every 8-10 minutes or so, I don't understand where you got 25 mins from.

Rechuchote · 11-10-2018 10:35am

Qrt wrote: »

The F spine is meant to be every 8-10 minutes or so, I don't understand where you got 25 mins from.

8-10 minutes at midday, 25 minutes at other times, I'm told.

L1011 · 11-10-2018 10:39am

You've been told wrong

CatInABox · 11-10-2018 10:48am

Rechuchote wrote: »

8-10 minutes at midday, 25 minutes at other times, I'm told.

It's 8 minutes all day long, from 6 in the morning to 11 at night. At peak times, this increases to 5 minutes.

GM228 · 11-10-2018 11:22am

Stephen15 wrote: »

The GAI buses were being repainted in Volvo/Irish Commercials out in Naas I believe. I think DB buses go there too for warranty work.

Both Harris Commercials on the Naas road and Freeneys in Tallaght have been repainting the GA buses.

Freeneys also do all the DB and BE painting.

Qrt · 11-10-2018 11:55am

GM228 wrote: »

Both Harris Commercials on the Naas road and Freeneys in Tallaght have been repainting the GA buses.

Freeneys also do all the DB and BE painting.

I've always wondered why I used to see DB buses in Whitestown!

Thargor · 11-10-2018 12:26pm

How long would it take to get from Bray to IKEA on that bus do you think? Probably faster to cycle it just like the 145 right now.

Rechuchote · 11-10-2018 2:32pm

Thargor wrote: »

How long would it take to get from Bray to IKEA on that bus do you think? Probably faster to cycle it just like the 145 right now.

If it's the 140 you're talking about, a fair while; isn't its southern terminus in Rathmines?

Tarabuses · 11-10-2018 2:51pm

Rechuchote wrote: »

If it's the 140 you're talking about, a fair while; isn't its southern terminus in Rathmines?

I think he is referring to the new proposed route 45.

Rechuchote · 11-10-2018 3:01pm

Ah, in that case you will be transported at the speed of light as if you'd said "Beam me up, Scotty".

ITV2 · 11-10-2018 4:14pm

Tarabuses wrote: »

I think he is referring to the new proposed route 45.

it'll be route 155 :-)

Qrt · 11-10-2018 5:10pm

ITV2 wrote: »

it'll be route 155 :-)

has this been clarified?

sharper · 04-01-2019 4:23pm

Details of changes to 66, 66a, 66b,66x,66e,26,11,54a changes are now up.

66x change is just some timetable adjustments, no extra departures.

cherryghost · 04-01-2019 4:53pm

Is it just me or are those 66e times very odd? Monday - Friday off peak and hourly?

TheChrisD · 04-01-2019 4:57pm

I love how DB makes such a song and dance about what are in some cases extremely minor service changes.

cherryghost wrote: »

Is it just me or are those 66e times very odd? Monday - Friday off peak and hourly?

I think they're meant as a complement to the 66Xs that serve that part of Leixlip at peak times.

IE 222 · 05-01-2019 2:03am

Do DB run services not listed on timetables.

There is a 49 that passes Harolds Cross around 5:30am on route to city centre. Timetable suggests first departure is 6:15 from Jobstown. I've seen in service 27s departing the city centre for tallaght at 5am also timetable lists first bus from Clarehall at 5:15.

Stephen15 · 05-01-2019 2:22am

IE 222 wrote: »

Do DB run services not listed on timetables.

There is a 49 that passes Harolds Cross around 5:30am on route to city centre. Timetable suggests first departure is 6:15 from Jobstown. I've seen in service 27s departing the city centre for tallaght at 5am also timetable lists first bus from Clarehall at 5:15.

Could be either buses put on to take DB staff to work as there are a few staff shuttles run early in the morning to get DB staff before the first bus and late at night after the last bus to get staff home.

Either that or they could be heading out from Ringsend displaying the route number instead of Entering Service. I'm just guessing and could be wrong.

john boye · 05-01-2019 2:36am

IE 222 wrote: »

Do DB run services not listed on timetables.

There is a 49 that passes Harolds Cross around 5:30am on route to city centre. Timetable suggests first departure is 6:15 from Jobstown. I've seen in service 27s departing the city centre for tallaght at 5am also timetable lists first bus from Clarehall at 5:15.

Wow that's a blast from the past, I used to regularly see that 49 about 15 years ago. I think it leaves the square at 5 and works in service to Ringsend.

IE 222 · 05-01-2019 2:39am

Stephen15 wrote: »

Could be either buses put on to take DB staff to work as there are a few staff shuttles run early in the morning to get DB staff before the first bus and late at night after the last bus to get staff home.

Either that or they could be heading out from Ringsend displaying the route number instead of Entering Service. I'm just guessing and could be wrong.

49 could possibly be laid on for staff requirements, but it's definitely in full service as it does have a decent loading on board which is strange as its not advertised anywhere. I often see passengers get on and off at odd stops given the time of day so i doubt its only DB staff using it. Pretty sure its displayed on the real time display also.

The few 27s I've seen had one or two on board and all lights on with correct destination displayed ect so I presume its in service.

Out of interest is there a reason why the last 65 is the only bus that returns to base in service. No other routes do this.

L1011 · 05-01-2019 2:40am

Because it's incredibly far and relatively early?

The later but not last 66 and 67 returned in service in the past when based at Conygham Road; I now think they operate short to somewhere in the city centre

IE 222 · 05-01-2019 2:44am

john boye wrote: »

Wow that's a blast from the past, I used to regularly see that 49 about 15 years ago. I think it leaves the square at 5 and works in service to Ringsend.

Yeah well it seems to be thriving as well. Was it listed on the timetable back then.

Could it be a case if the scheduled driver was late or rang in sick they wouldn't be able to cover it and would have to cancel the service at short notice so don't advertise it.

thomasj · 05-01-2019 2:50am

IE 222 wrote: »

Out of interest is there a reason why the last 65 is the only bus that returns to base in service. No other routes do this.

69 does as well, there's one scheduled for 00.05 but it's regularly late .

I usually get that bus when coming back from rathcoole on a night out .

IE 222 · 05-01-2019 2:51am

L1011 wrote: »

Because it's incredibly far and relatively early?

The later but not last 66 and 67 returned in service in the past when based at Conygham Road; I now think they operate short to somewhere in the city centre

What you mean relatively early. This departs Ballymore at 00:20. It the latest scheduled departure throughout the whole network. There is one at 23:15 as well. As you say only the second last 66s and 67s returned in service.

Dublin Bus - Major Service Expansion Announced

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