Dublin Bus - Major Service Expansion Announced

Rechuchote

Oh, wait, the 16 route is being privatised? Ah no - that's disgusting! So sickened to hear that.

Stephen15

Rechuchote wrote: »

Oh, wait, the 16 route is being privatised? Ah no - that's disgusting! So sickened to hear that.

Where did you get that information from?

thomasj

Rechuchote wrote:

Oh, wait, the 16 route is being privatised? Ah no - that's disgusting! So sickened to hear that.

No

Idbatterim

When are we getting a 24 hour (or close to it) bus and luas service ?

Victor

Idbatterim wrote: »

When are we getting a 24 hour (or close to it) bus and luas service ?

Other than perhaps weekend services, 24-hour rail services are relatively rare, except where there are alternative lines available. This is so that maintenance can be carried out at night.

Stephen15

Idbatterim wrote: »

When are we getting a 24 hour (or close to it) bus and luas service ?

Feburary was being muted up thread for DB

Rechuchote

Stephen15 wrote: »

Where did you get that information from?

The first post in this thread - perhaps I misunderstood it?

Telchak

Rechuchote wrote: »

The first post in this thread - perhaps I misunderstood it?

Because other routers are were moved to GoAhead, Dublin Bus has spare buses for extra capacity on the routes listed.

trellheim

39a and 70 corridor from CC to M50 badly needs improvememt every single bus jammed from the quays to the NAvan Road

Rechuchote

Mostly the 16 is great, in my experience (though the horrid Bus Connects plan may make it far worse) - but as an airport bus it needs early-morning and late-night runs, and not dumping out old ladies and helpless foreigners into O'Connell Street or College Green, thank you very much, but continuing south to Tallaght.

XPS_Zero

When the private companies don't own the busses, can't undercut T&C's, don't set the fares, don't own the bus stops and can't change the routes without the states permission, it's not being privatized.

Privatization would be selling the lot off (except MAYBE the bus stops?) and letting any company join onto that route, competing on fares, busses etc

We don't have that because we know from other countries it does not work. We know from this country the CIE monopoly does not work either (see recent BE strike and the sympathy strikes around it, not to mention the intimidation against GOBE drivers...see DART drivers who think 'increments' and pay rises are not the same thing...). We know from here (Luas model) and elsewhere that this model does work well. So were trying an expansion of it.

Nothings being privatized. Be careful saying that, you might get people comfortable with the word, there are a few in Irish politics who would indeed go the full way and if you get the public to stop having an y fear of the P word by tossing it around that casually it will make it easier for them to advocate for it.

Rechuchote

It's P by stealth. They'll see if people will put up with it, and then sneak in more and more - unless there's anger and resistance.

XPS_Zero

They'll expand the % of routes. They are not gonna go full privatization, only a few thatcherite nutters in FG would go that far, and they are mostly younger types who, like the SWP heads, will realize the worlds a more grey place when they grow up.



There is no possibility of actual privatization of bus or rail in Ireland, it's not going to happen, esp after what happened in the UK.

devnull

Rechuchote wrote: »

It's P by stealth. They'll see if people will put up with it, and then sneak in more and more - unless there's anger and resistance.

Personally I couldn't care less if the operator is public or private, I just care about the quality of the service.

PhoenixParker

It’s how things are done in places like Sweden. I’ll take their service standards over ours any day.

thomasj

trellheim wrote:

39a and 70 corridor from CC to M50 badly needs improvememt every single bus jammed from the quays to the NAvan Road

And beyond the m50 as well. There are times you cannot get on a bus after Blanchardstown centre because of the long wait coupled with the numbers coming from the centre towards ongar.

Rechuchote

devnull wrote: »

Personally I couldn't care less if the operator is public or private, I just care about the quality of the service.

I care about the quality of the service, because that benefits me.

I care about the quality of the working conditions too, though.

Amirani

Rechuchote wrote: »

Mostly the 16 is great, in my experience (though the horrid Bus Connects plan may make it far worse) - but as an airport bus it needs early-morning and late-night runs, and not dumping out old ladies and helpless foreigners into O'Connell Street or College Green, thank you very much, but continuing south to Tallaght.

If you consider travelling 7km in an hour to be great, then fair enough. The 16 from Rathfarnham to College Green around 8am is a shambles and needs fixing, hopefully BusConnects will do this.

Rechuchote

Amirani wrote: »

If you consider travelling 7km in an hour to be great, then fair enough. The 16 from Rathfarnham to College Green around 8am is a shambles and needs fixing, hopefully BusConnects will do this.

One person in 80% of cars; 50% of all driven journeys are under 2km. The problem is there.

XPS_Zero

devnull wrote: »

Personally I couldn't care less if the operator is public or private, I just care about the quality of the service.

You'll find that is most people. But we know if we privatized it totally we'd end up with ruthless cut throat competition and one private monopoly (and we already have enough issues with du-opolies and cartels in insurance and communications in this country). I consider myself, broadly, on the centre left, but the reason I am where I am is because nobody in my group will ask "is this really the socialist thing to do / the conservative thing to do" they'll ask how it's gonna work, if it's gonna work, how much it will cost, what about this bit, what about that bit. Ideology should be a set of principles, not a cage you trap yourself in.
I oppose co-location in the health service because it's stupid and does not work, I oppose the mixed two tier health service we have cos I know single payer works better, not because it's less right wing or more left wing just.



People on here joke about people calling the CIE unions marxist or socialist, well indeed they are not, if they were they'd be in favor of the interest of the people at large not an interest group, but we know unions are a sectional interest group not unlike special interest groups that lobby for banks or employers in the sense that they want what they want for their own people not the public at large. Sure, what unions want can be in the public interest at large, is in the public interest more often than what IBEC wants, and it used to be in the public interest all the time, but unions, starting in the 70s when they got out of control in the PS and got us Thatcher, Reagan and the PDs, has kinda decayed in the last few decades and instead of being out for workers rights they de-facto, meaning to or not, protect inefficiency and sloth. That's what most people think, thats one of the reason private sector workers don't join, and that's one of many reasons why they need to be started over from scratch.


I hate the way unions are not not because I think they're getting too big a slice of cake for workers (though for some that IS true, in some parts of the PS) I don't want European pilots to be paid the way US pilots are, or any transport worker, I don't want the guy flying my plane or driving the bus I'm on or driving the train I'm careering down the track on at 100km/h worrying about money and getting his kids school books. I would like to see certain PS workers (cops, nurses, firefighters, teachers) get paid 100k a year cos that's what their jobs worth (yes, I think it is, think about where society would be without those 4, now imagine where we'd be without a broker at Irish Life or an executive at the HSE who makes way more than them), but the second I proposed tying any changes in working conditions or getting rid of outmoted or stupid working conditions to that, or better performance, I'd get an outraged "ah here!" from some of them.



Their attitude is going to destroy the concept of unions and then, contrary to what people think, labour laws won't protect us, collective power is needed, without it were f---d, but it will be gone, and if we suggest bringing it back it won't be weekends and minimum wages people picture in their heads it will be GoBe drivers being threatened for doing their job, rail strikes over new trains, blue flu over new computers and Luas drivers striking for a pay rise that was absurd even as a negotiating tactic.


What unions want and whats in workers interest is not always one in the same, remember their actions can damage not only future workers as I argue above, but other workers in other jobs with far less secure conditions.

trellheim

You'll find that is most people. But we know if we privatized it totally we'd end up with ruthless cut throat competition and one private monopoly

The NTA set out what bus services are to be run .... I am not sure how you get to cut throat competition from there

hmmm

XPS_Zero wrote: »

But we know if we privatized it totally we'd end up with ruthless cut throat competition and one private monopoly (and we already have enough issues with du-opolies and cartels in insurance and communications in this country).

Privatisation has done wonders for opening up cheaper flights & options for Irish people. Without privatisation we'd still be stuck with paying AL a small fortune to fly to a small number of destinations.

Stephen15

hmmm wrote: »

Privatisation has done wonders for opening up cheaper flights & options for Irish people. Without privatisation we'd still be stuck with paying AL a small fortune to fly to a small number of destinations.

So do you want an outside of London style UK style system. That system dosen't work as the UK. Imagine say going from Santry into town but only having a monthly for the 16 and not being able to use the 41 or the 33 even if they come first useless system. TfGM in Manchester is currently trying to take back control of Manchester's buses and tender them out as the current system is not working.

Also in many places around the UK the council has had to step back in order to tender out less profitable routes. Many councils across the UK are trying to pick up the pieces.

Zebra3

hmmm wrote: »

Privatisation has done wonders for opening up cheaper flights & options for Irish people. Without privatisation we'd still be stuck with paying AL a small fortune to fly to a small number of destinations.

Apples.

Oranges.

dfx-

Amirani wrote: »

If you consider travelling 7km in an hour to be great, then fair enough. The 16 from Rathfarnham to College Green around 8am is a shambles and needs fixing, hopefully BusConnects will do this.

By renaming it as a "spine", giving it a letter and number and then pretending it's different.

Generally, the south half of the 16 is the most neglected artery route in the city. Most of the focus on the route is the northern half. And the only thing keeping the 13 off being the worst route.

sharper

OscarMIlde wrote: »

I do welcome the 66E though, it is needed, the people of Easton have no bus service apart from some 66x buses, which often don't show in the morning. With all the new developments planned in the area it is needed. A similar service for Aghards road route in Celbridge would be great.

It's a shame they didn't run the 66E through chapelizod bypass to compensate for the extra running time.

I'll be interested to see what actual improvements the 66 gets. The last improvement was just an extra peak time and term time only service from Maynooth to Dublin because so many university students need it.

They also seem very reluctant to improve the express services. You'd think they'd be a money maker since they're all full.

markpb

dfx- wrote: »

By renaming it as a "spine", giving it a letter and number and then pretending it's different.

I know you're being deliberately obtuse now. Renumbering the routes is to make it easier for people who are unfamiliar with the system. It has nothing to do with improving the on-time performance and the only person suggesting that it has is you.

bk

markpb wrote: »

I know you're being deliberately obtuse now. Renumbering the routes is to make it easier for people who are unfamiliar with the system.

The above is the cherry on top, but the real benefit is to allow routes that currently overlap to be scheduled as one so they are less likely to bunch.

Currently routes like the 1, 16, 13, etc. are all scheduled separately, despite overlapping for long sections of their routes. As a result you could have a 1, 13 and 16 all leaving O'Connell St, from different stops at the same time, which really doesn't make any sense.

Scheduling them all together as one meta route, makes a lot more sense, as does operating from the same stops. Of course it wouldn't completely solve bunching problems, you still have congestion, but at the moment we aren't even trying. IMO this will be a very welcome step in the right direction.

markpb

bk wrote: »

The above is the cherry on top, but the real benefit is to allow routes that currently overlap to be scheduled as one so they are less likely to bunch.

Currently routes like the 1, 16, 13, etc. are all scheduled separately, despite overlapping for long sections of their routes. As a result you could have a 1, 13 and 16 all leaving O'Connell St, from different stops at the same time, which really doesn't make any sense.

Scheduling them all together as one meta route, makes a lot more sense, as does operating from the same stops. Of course it wouldn't completely solve bunching problems, you still have congestion, but at the moment we aren't even trying. IMO this will be a very welcome step in the right direction.

There's nothing stopping DB/NTA doing that today.

cgcsb

Why are people still not understanding the difference between wholesale privatization, as witnessed in the UK, with the shambolic 'bus wars'. And the system of tendering for operators that has been running VERY successfully on Dublin's luas system for almost 2 decades?

Why is the national origin of one of the tendering companies relevant? More relevant than Veolia's routes?