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Why are women allowed to smoke while pregnant?

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    #92
    Former Observer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 474 ✭✭Former Observer


    mikhail wrote: »
    It must be nice to feel superior to people who are smarter than you.

    Let me guess, your favourite authors are Brian Cox and Richard Dawkins, and visiting your GP is a very humbling experience for you.


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    #93
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭mikhail


    Former Observer wrote: »
    Let me guess, your favourite authors are Brian Cox and Richard Dawkins, and visiting your GP is a very humbling experience for you.
    Did I strike a nerve there? Wrong on all counts, by the way.


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    #94
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,841 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    strip them of the dole if they smoke while pregnant, would solve ninety something percent of the problem!


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    #95
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,116 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    I was taking a breather during the birth of my first child, I stepped outside for a smoke during the night. Ended up having a chat to a woman there, as it was night time it was dark, but I could see that she was in jammies. I asked her what she was in for, she told me that she was in labour.
    She took a smoke break while in labour.

    Maybe that was the first time she had smoked the entire pregnancy? You don't know any different do you? Labour is pretty stressful and I don't think one cigarette at that point is going to do anything. I mean, they give women in labour actual heroin (diamorphine) for pain relief in some places. When I was in early labour the midwife told me to go home and have a bath and a glass of wine and I followed that advice. I drank wine in labour, call social services!

    Btw either parent smoking at all, is a risk factor for SIDS. Should you be judged as harshly for endangering your child?


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    #96
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Tobacco companies depend on the fact that most people start when young. It's unusual to start as an adult

    That's religion you're thinking of


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    #97
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    nthclare wrote: »
    It's only a bundle of cells or a foetus if someone wants to get rid of it.

    But its a baby if someone wants to have a child, I never heard any mother say she's in gestation and at the bundle of cells stage, oh now its at foetus stage, not long now and it'll be nearly a baby.

    The whole thing confuses me.

    Smoking fags while pregnant is definitely not good though.

    Glad you're confused. That makes 2 of us.
    its only the ones who believe everything they're told that don't get confused :)


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    #98
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    The type of women who smoke while pregnant are also those that think nothing of popping to the shops in their pj’s at 3 in the afternoon. Usually not the sharpest pins in the pack either.


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    #99
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    The type of women who smoke while pregnant are also those that think nothing of popping to the shops in their pj’s at 3 in the afternoon. Usually not the sharpest pins in the pack either.

    Exactly, shouldn't be allowed to reproduce anyway. Spitting them out for the taxpayer to raise when she should have been spitting out to begin with....


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    #100
    bingbong500
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭bingbong500


    Del2005 wrote: »
    What about the baby they are growing, does that not get a choice? Do you think that smoking around others is OK? Because smoking while pregnant is forcing another person to smoke.


    It's not a person.

    "Allowed"? Who is going to stop them? And how?


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    #101
    randoplh134
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 94 ✭✭randoplh134


    It's not your body so it's none of your business, wife smoked up until 4 months during pregnancies for 3 of our 4 children and each turned out exceptionally healthy.


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    #102
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    randoplh134 wrote: »
    It's not your body so it's none of your business, wife smoked up until 4 months during pregnancies for 3 of our 4 children and each turned out exceptionally healthy.

    Why did she stop at 4 months?


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    #103
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Lets face it if you choose to go through a pregnancy. You owe it to yourself your family and the baby to do your best job.

    Drinking smoking etc ..whatever chemical stuff you aren't allowed use. (the list seems to be growing did you know you can only use organic skincare and sunscreen?? but also sunburn is dangerous during pregnancy!)

    Do your best. It's not easy to eat well abstain etc during this time but you have a responsibility.


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    #104
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    The type of women who smoke while pregnant are also those that think nothing of popping to the shops in their pj’s at 3 in the afternoon. Usually not the sharpest pins in the pack either.

    Plenty of Gannets and Patsy and Edina type's have an aul puff and the odd line during pregnancy...

    You know the types "absolutely fabulous" women, and the fur coats and no knickers brigade who've only light in the fridge because they're paying off the beamer or Audi...

    And don't forget the middle class Gannets drinking vino, smoking outside and shnortin the odd line.....


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    #105
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    nthclare wrote: »
    Plenty of Gannets and Patsy and Edina type's have an aul puff and the odd line during pregnancy...

    You know the types "absolutely fabulous" women, and the fur coats and no knickers brigade who've only light in the fridge because they're paying off the beamer or Audi...

    And don't forget the middle class Gannets drinking vino, smoking outside and shnortin the odd line.....

    I have never come across anyone named Gannet.


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    #106
    Vlthap
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭Vlthap


    xzanti wrote: »
    Personally it turns my stomach to see it.

    I've heard it said however that the stress of not smoking for the mother could be just as hazardous for the baby as actually smoking.

    Who knows.

    But what about the newborn baby who has to go through nicotine withdrawals? Surely that's more hazardous?


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    #107
    fatknacker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭fatknacker


    Crush a Nicorette tablet into their milk and sorted.


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    #108
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    nthclare wrote: »
    Plenty of Gannets and Patsy and Edina type's have an aul puff and the odd line during pregnancy...

    You know the types "absolutely fabulous" women, and the fur coats and no knickers brigade who've only light in the fridge because they're paying off the beamer or Audi...

    And don't forget the middle class Gannets drinking vino, smoking outside and shnortin the odd line.....

    That's just an oxymoron. If you're taking coke when you're pregnant you're not middle class, just a filthy knacker. I know of one woman from the inner city who kept up her daily diet of L&M Red, zimmos and weed, plus booze at the weekend right until she went into hospital-the child died a few days after she brought him home.


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    #109
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    I don't get the Handmaid's Tale references and such, as if it's an oppression of women thing. Someone even suggested it would be like Saudi Arabia if such a measure were brought in - wtf? To protect an unborn baby?

    That said, I don't see how they can be stopped but smoking heavily while pregnant (whatever about the very occasional one when trying to give up) is sh1tty. I don't understand the objection to criticism of it.
    volchitsa wrote: »
    So having tried to ban breastfeeding women from the public sphere, the OP now wants to control pregnant women.
    Pregnant women smoking.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Their bodies. Their choice.
    It's not just their bodies though.
    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Sure and ban the drinking as well while you're at it - all that alcohol in the system can't be good for the new baba. Problem is that you can put bans on these sort of things but you can never implement them, so they're worthless.
    Yeah heavy drinking when pregnant is also sh1tty.
    Martina1991 wrote: »
    Say a woman doesnt smoke in pregancy, but her husband smokes like a chimney around the kids.
    Is the man smoking around them ok?
    Of course not. Nobody said it was. Parents should not smoke around their children. Adults should not smoke around any non smokers, above all children.
    volchitsa wrote: »
    She was only doing the same as you. Maybe she was as addicted as you were?
    But he wasn't pregnant.


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    #110
    Limpy
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Limpy


    How close are some women to Sharon from the snapper these days I wonder.


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    #111
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    Pauliedragon wrote: »
    When my ex worked in pubs she used to refuse to serve booze to pregnant women. A lot of heated conversations were had. She revels in conflict though.

    Jesus. I work in bars and would never dare do this. What next? Telling a family their fat kid can't have a burger and a coke? Where in the service industry not the judging people industry.


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    #112
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    People judge all the time. I wouldn't feel comfortable serving pregnant women a lot of drink. Although it wouldn't be my place to refuse.


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    #113
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,116 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Gimme A Pound wrote: »
    I don't get the Handmaid's Tale references and such, as if it's an oppression of women thing. Someone even suggested it would be like Saudi Arabia if such a measure were brought in - wtf? To protect an unborn baby?

    That said, I don't see how they can be stopped but smoking heavily while pregnant (whatever about the very occasional one when trying to give up) is sh1tty. I don't understand the objection to criticism of it.

    Pregnant women smoking.

    It's not just their bodies though.

    Yeah heavy drinking when pregnant is also sh1tty.

    Of course not. Nobody said it was. Parents should not smoke around their children. Adults should not smoke around any non smokers, above all children.

    But he wasn't pregnant.


    Where do you draw the line though? Being obese during pregnancy is just as bad for the baby as smoking. Stress is bad too. Driving? Using stairs? Going out at all? Those are all increasing the risk of something happening to hurt the foetus. At the end of the day, most women are capable of making the right choices for their children and of making reasonable risk assessments of what activities they partake in when pregnant. Judging them or banning certain things aren't going to make a bit of difference and would be impossible to police anyway.

    And no, that poster wasn't pregnant but the fact that he was a smoker increased his child's risk of SIDS. How come no one is slating him or saying he shouldn't be allowed to have kids?


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    #114
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    I still don't understand the objection to just having a negative opinion of it though. It's like because they're pregnant women they are above criticism, and any criticism could only be coming from a place of misogyny/wanting to control women, when it's only a criticism of a behaviour, which we all do.

    I'm not looking to draw a line. Climbing stairs, driving, going out - these can be necessary. Heavy smoking or drinking isn't, eating loads of junkfood when pregnant isn't, obesity and pregnancy is a big risk.

    I know nothing I write will stop it but you could say that about loads of things. It's just expressing a point of view.

    If Boom Bap smoked around non smokers, particularly children, I would be critical of him, but I don't know if he did.


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    #115
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Where do you draw the line though?

    Smoking


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    #116
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,116 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Gimme A Pound wrote: »
    I still don't understand the objection to just having a negative opinion of it though. It's like because they're pregnant women they are above criticism, and any criticism could only be coming from a place of misogyny/wanting to control women, when it's only a criticism of a behaviour, which we all do.

    I'm not looking to draw a line. Climbing stairs, driving, going out - these can be necessary. Heavy smoking or drinking isn't, eating loads of junkfood when pregnant isn't, obesity and pregnancy is a big risk.

    I know nothing I write will stop it but you could say that about loads of things. It's just expressing a point of view.

    If Boom Bap smoked around non smokers, particularly children, I would be critical of him, but I don't know if he did.

    Of course, I do view smoking negatively , and even more so during pregnancy given that the risks are known. I think that pregnant women should do their best not to smoke, but sometimes they fail and need support, not judgement. That's what stops women from seeking help. The same with heavy drinkers, drug users or even over eaters which can be addictive behaviour for some. It's not as easy as "just stopping".

    The Op asked why pregnant women are "allowed" to smoke. I think it's obvious from the way it was phrased where they are coming from.


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    #117
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    The Op asked why pregnant women are "allowed" to smoke. I think it's obvious from the way it was phrased where they are coming from.
    Oh for sure. But ignoring that, and just looking at the topic in general, I do think there are folk who just don't give a sh1t and will do what they want. Like with anything.


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    #118
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,681 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    The Op asked why pregnant women are "allowed" to smoke. I think it's obvious from the way it was phrased where they are coming from.

    I’ll be honest, I simply took it to mean why are women permitted to smoke when they’re pregnant. The answer is really as simple as the political will just isn’t there to introduce legislation which would ban them from doing so. It would simply be seen as an over-reach by the State. We have laws already which prohibit all sorts of behaviours and affect all sorts of groups in society.

    Politicians could introduce legislation if they wanted similar to the way in which the smoking ban was introduced overnight and had the immediate effect of prohibiting smoking in public buildings. They simply don’t want to introduce legislation that would prohibit women from smoking when they’re pregnant. They wouldn’t even have to actively police it any more than they don’t actively police the current smoking ban. It would simply be a matter of extending existing legislation to cover circumstances where women would be prohibited from smoking when they become pregnant.

    I know you suggested pregnant women who smoke need support and all the rest of it, but what if the approach were taken with the intent of discouraging women from smoking in the first place when they become pregnant? Otherwise to be honest I don’t see the point in saying that people shouldn’t judge and they need support and all the rest of it. All that does is make smoking during pregnancy permissible, and sure women do that already, they don’t need permission to do so once they are of legal age to purchase tobacco in the first place. The hands-off, “non-judgemental” approach clearly doesn’t do anything to curb the behaviour. If the idea is to prevent women from smoking during pregnancy or to discourage women from smoking during pregnancy, then politicians would need to be a bit more proactive in the area of legislating to prohibit the behaviour.

    Personally, I can’t see it happening, and frankly I’m not all that bothered by it. Smoking is one of the least things I’d be concerned about when a woman is pregnant.


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    #119
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,019 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Gimme A Pound wrote: »
    I still don't understand the objection to just having a negative opinion of it though. It's like because they're pregnant women they are above criticism, and any criticism could only be coming from a place of misogyny/wanting to control women, when it's only a criticism of a behaviour, which we all do.

    I'm not looking to draw a line. Climbing stairs, driving, going out - these can be necessary. Heavy smoking or drinking isn't, eating loads of junkfood when pregnant isn't, obesity and pregnancy is a big risk.

    I know nothing I write will stop it but you could say that about loads of things. It's just expressing a point of view.

    If Boom Bap smoked around non smokers, particularly children, I would be critical of him, but I don't know if he did.

    The reason it's an issue is not because pregnant women are "above criticism" it's because special rules are being applied to pregnant women, or would be if people could find a way to do so.

    Like the poster who was outside smoking as his partner was giving birth: having a parent (either parent) who smokes is associated with a higher risk of cot death but the poster saw nothing inconsistent about him posting his anecdote about this crazy pregnant woman who was smoking during labour. Because people still have this belief that they should be able to control pregnant women's behaviour. Maybe it's a relic of the 8th amendment, or perhaps of the attitudes that led to the 8th becoming the law in the first place. Though TBF that judgmentalism is not unknown in other countries either.


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    #120
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    I have never come across anyone named Gannet.

    I used to go out with a lady from the more affluent part of Dublin, she's old money and they're nickname the middle class women Gannets, because herself and her friends used to go out to eat and observe the wannabe toffs.

    She's quite funny, and the reason they call them Gannets is because they hang around in groups and all they do is eat, talk over each other and drink copiously....

    Like a few Gannets hanging out waiting for the fishing boats to come ashore, squawking, and consuming everything thing they can.

    Ironically the upper class look down on the middle class and seem to have no problems with the working class because they're both not out to prove anything..

    Billy Connolly did a great sketch on slagging off the Volvo crowd...the wannabe toffs as he calls them.


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    #121
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    volchitsa wrote: »
    The reason it's an issue is not because pregnant women are "above criticism" it's because special rules are being applied to pregnant women, or would be if people could find a way to do so.

    Like the poster who was outside smoking as his partner was giving birth: having a parent (either parent) who smokes is associated with a higher risk of cot death but the poster saw nothing inconsistent about him posting his anecdote about this crazy pregnant woman who was smoking during labour. Because people still have this belief that they should be able to control pregnant women's behaviour. Maybe it's a relic of the 8th amendment, or perhaps of the attitudes that led to the 8th becoming the law in the first place. Though TBF that judgmentalism is not unknown in other countries either.
    What? No, it's just criticism of a behaviour. :confused:

    People who are male, female, pregnant, not pregnant, young, old, whatever... get criticised for certain behaviours. We judge - all the time. Even people who think they don't, do.

    What special rules are being applied or are wished to be applied to pregnant women? "It's horrible when pregnant women smoke heavily" - is it not? There's no control, nothing to do with the 8th amendment - just an opinion. Why is this uncalled for because she's pregnant? There can be such a cognitive dissonance about the unborn - smoking when pregnant is potentially harmful to the baby's health, but it's unreasonable to say this? Just no. There's no logic to it.

    A more extreme example, but still, how the baby's health is affected: a drug addicted newborn, one of the most heart breaking things imaginable. Foetal alcohol syndrome - a life of health problems... but criticism of the mother is not anything other than wanting to control pregnant women? Rather than concern for the health of the baby. It's bizarre.

    And I already mentioned Boom Bap in that very post you quoted. If he smoked around his pregnant partner or his child, I absolutely would be highly critical of him. Of anyone who smokes around non smokers, especially children. But there's no indication that he did.


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