Why aren't there more strong Dublin accents in the media?

Tony EH · 25-09-2020 8:52pm

Leg End Reject wrote: »

Neutral accents are easily understood regardless of where you're from.

It isn't a "neutral" accent though.

The flat Dublin accent is a neutral accent. The one between "jaysis howaya" and "ok ja".

What you hear on RTE, the likes of Anne Doyle, or Eileen Dunne etc, are affected accents. Carefully cultivated and anything but neutral or natural.

It's the type of accent one has to work at and develop, instead of just having.

Tony EH · 25-09-2020 8:57pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

If you want yizzer daily dose of Dubness, just tune into Fair Cirree and you'll get a week's supply in one go.

Most of those are culchies trying to put on a Dublin accent and, largely, failing.

its_steve116 · 01-10-2020 6:47pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Is it 'inallinanyways' or 'inallinalleyways'? I've always wondered but never asked.

"Inallinanyways" I think

Tony EH · 01-10-2020 7:06pm

I don't think I've ever heard "Inallinanyways" or "inallinalleyways".

I've heard "in any ways...", as is "Sure, I'm going in anyways..." and "In all...", as in "Didn't he bring the bleedin dog in all..."

saabsaab · 03-10-2020 10:37pm

Tony EH wrote: »

It isn't a "neutral" accent though.

The flat Dublin accent is a neutral accent. The one between "jaysis howaya" and "ok ja".

What you hear on RTE, the likes of Anne Doyle, or Eileen Dunne etc, are affected accents. Carefully cultivated and anything but neutral or natural.

It's the type of accent one has to work at and develop, instead of just having.

Cork accent more neutral I'd say. Not the extreme ones but educated.

riclad · 03-10-2020 10:57pm

Joe Duffy is understandable to any listener, Niall Boylan on classic hits has a slight dublin accent.
A presenter has to able to speak clearly
without using common slang and be polite to callers and be able to ask the right questions when discussing a wide range of subjects.
I think if someone went for an interview now in rte radio and they had a strong working class
Dublin accent they probably would not
get the job.
Most presenters on rte radio have a neutral middle class accent, which makes it impossible to know where they are from, are they from Dublin or some other county?
Look at bbc news presenters most have
a vague middleclass accent which is not regional , sports presenters on BBC, itv
are allowed to have regional accents
or Northern England accents

boardise · 03-10-2020 11:26pm

Leg End Reject wrote: »

Neutral accents are easily understood regardless of where you're from.

That's why I don't understand RTE's weird pronunciation of certain words - ishshew, tishhew, ngoooordee, Portleash-ha etc. It doesn't sound posh, more like the presenter is seeing the word for the first time and having at bash at saying it.

Correct.
For national media ,a form of standard language is essential to maximally facilitate communication . Regional dialects are a block to understanding.
An example . Some years back in a typically mutton-headed PC experiment a guy with a Birmingham dialect was recorded to voice announcements in a large railway station. Complaints mounted from travellers who couldn't make out what was being said or picked it up wrong. You can imagine the chaos and frustration. The whole idiot idea had to be hastily dropped.
Local dialects are ok on regional media -on national media they are a no-no.

John_Rambo · 03-10-2020 11:26pm

chrissb8 wrote: »

Really?..."Dat fella Neemar" or "Saodio Mane"

Brian Kerr couldn't get to the end of the alphabet. Awful example of a Dubliner who can barely speak, when his job is just that. Even worse on the radio "EHH I'M NOT TO SHURE WHO IHT WAZ BUT IT WAZ A DEECENT EFFORT"

He's abysmal.

Most Irish accents don't enunciate a lot British words properly, let alone names from other countries, but that's ok. Most strong accents don't enunciate proper English words. You often hear people from the West pronounce it "Wesht" but these regional accents are perfectly understandable to most of us including Brian Kerrs.

boardise · 03-10-2020 11:42pm

chosen1 wrote: »

Weird one with Clare Daly.

Daughter of an army colonel, from Newbridge and has a working class Dublin accent. She's like the opposite of a Mayo girl that has just spent 2 weeks in UCD.

I didn't know this fact but it ties in with a strange practice found elsewhere . Many middle class students in the UK affect a 'working class' or 'vernacular' accent and try to conceal their natural standard language accent.
So many were trying to sound like Cockneys that a great term was thought up to describe their artificially constructed outpourings ..'Mockney'.
I can only guess they want to show some kind of proxy solidarity with the raw earthy working class or they want to acquire some 'street cred' or that they are afraid their own dialect will be sneered at as 'posh'.

saabsaab · 03-10-2020 11:52pm

Not from Dublin but i find Brian Kerr easy to understand with his accent also Simon Delaney, very clear.

its_steve116 · 08-10-2020 12:32am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Saoirse Ronan seems to talk with a kind of flat Dublin accent I think she got it from her parents. This seems to really annoy non Dubliners for some reason but I find it refreshing that she doesn't talk with the usual rindabite dorsch accent that most women in the media have.

Fun fact: her Dad Paul was born in Manchester.

riclad · 09-10-2020 10:55pm

I think there's an estuary accent in England it's like a generic working class accent used by middle class people or maybe actors who do not want to sound
too posh to get roles in TV dramas
I think any Irish person can understand Joe Duffy even though he has a working class dublin accent
Most ads use people with middle class or neutral accents i can't see actors with
working class accents being used to advertise i phones or BMW cars

John_Rambo · 10-10-2020 11:57pm

saabsaab wrote: »

Not from Dublin but i find Brian Kerr easy to understand with his accent also Simon Delaney, very clear.

Agreed. I think there's a cohort of people that claim to not understand Irish vernacular unless it's from their own region. In truth, they understand it perfectly and simply have a distaste for the speakers region because of their heavily laden shoulder chips.

Bowlardo · 11-10-2020 12:07am

Its a dreadful accent

saabsaab · 11-10-2020 11:03am

Being from 'down the country' I used to think there was only one Dublin accent when i arrived first a sort of maureen potter (remember her) panto twang. To my surprise I found several Dublin accents depending on what part of Dublin they were from and social background etc.

Tony EH · 11-10-2020 2:49pm

saabsaab wrote: »

Being from 'down the country' I used to think there was only one Dublin accent when i arrived first a sort of maureen potter (remember her) panto twang. To my surprise I found several Dublin accents depending on what part of Dublin they were from and social background etc.

Is that the same most places?

Galway has numerous accents depending who you're talking to. i was surprised when I went to Liverpool how many different accents there were too.

Sakana · 11-10-2020 2:54pm

I like some working class Dublin accents, but a lot of them wouldn't be out of place in the armies of Sauron. Same with certain Cork and Limerick accents.

Mad_maxx · 11-10-2020 3:58pm

chrissb8 wrote: »

Really?..."Dat fella Neemar" or "Saodio Mane"

Brian Kerr couldn't get to the end of the alphabet. Awful example of a Dubliner who can barely speak, when his job is just that. Even worse on the radio "EHH I'M NOT TO SHURE WHO IHT WAZ BUT IT WAZ A DEECENT EFFORT"

He's abysmal.

I like how he speaks ( and what he says )

Nexytus · 11-10-2020 4:07pm

I like Kerr's accent/voice and he's also an excellent pundit/analyst.

saabsaab · 11-10-2020 8:42pm

Tony EH wrote: »

Is that the same most places?

Galway has numerous accents depending who you're talking to. i was surprised when I went to Liverpool how many different accents there were too.

Galway is full of outsiders probably more so that any other Irish city I'd say 70% of the city are non Galway origin.

Probably true to some extent elsewhere but it came as a shock to me at the time.

Tony EH · 11-10-2020 9:37pm

saabsaab wrote: »

Galway is full of outsiders probably more so that any other Irish city I'd say 70% of the city are non Galway origin.

Probably true to some extent elsewhere but it came as a shock to me at the time.

I'm not talking about the city.

Hoboo · 12-10-2020 8:06am

Nexytus wrote: »

I like Kerr's accent/voice and he's also an excellent pundit/analyst.

The accent/voice is a personal like or dislike, but he is not an excellent analyst. He's woeful.

riclad · 12-10-2020 11:29am

Theres at least 4 dublin accents, dart accent, generic middle class posh accent called the dart accent,strong dublin accent usually from working class area,s ,
mild dublin accent .eg cormac moore dj has a mild dublin accent .
dart accent is neutral sounds almost like an english accent.
you can live anywhere in dublin and have a dart accent.
its like old bbc presenters , eg it just means you are middle class .

https://www.fm104.ie/on-air/room-104/
you could be middle class and have a mild dublin accent, its easily understood by anyone .

Tony EH · 12-10-2020 2:53pm

riclad wrote: »

dart accent is neutral sounds almost like an english accent.
you can live anywhere in dublin and have a dart accent.
its like old bbc presenters , eg it just means you are middle class .

This is anything but a "neutral" accent. Those tones have to be artificially worked. A neutral accent is something you don't have to adopt or work at to achieve. That "Dort" "Ok ya" accent has absolutely nothing to do with Dublin and only started to appear around the 90's. It was something people made an effort to use and not something that happened naturally.

The same goes for that old fashioned auntie Beeb accent. It was something you needed to train yourself to do and when it became silly sounding and no longer in vogue, it was dropped.

John_Rambo · 12-10-2020 3:14pm

Tony EH wrote: »

This is anything but a "neutral" accent. Those tones have to be artificially worked. A neutral accent is something you don't have to adopt or work at to achieve. That "Dort" "Ok ya" accent has absolutely nothing to do with Dublin and only started to appear around the 90's. It was something people made an effort to use and not something that happened naturally.

The same goes for that old fashioned auntie Beeb accent. It was something you needed to train yourself to do and when it became silly sounding and no longer in vogue, it was dropped.

Maybe that's when you started to hear it!! The Bob Geldof accent has been around a long long time. My parents would have slagged off people with accents like that in the 70's pronouncing Harp like Horp. Two points of horp please.

Tony EH · 12-10-2020 3:40pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

Maybe that's when you started to hear it!! The Bob Geldof accent has been around a long long time. My parents would have slagged off people with accents like that in the 70's pronouncing Harp like Horp. Two points of horp please.

Geldoff's accent represented absolutely nowhere in Dublin, not at the time or now. :pac:

There used to be a female radio/TV presenter in the 90's, I can't remember her name. I think she used to do traffic reports in her "dort" accent. But, anyway, I remember Gay Byrne brought up her accent when he interviewed her, because he found it so odd. He didn't find it disagreeable or anything, but he'd not heard it used much and that was a man who interviewed people for a living.

partyguinness · 12-10-2020 3:50pm

Tony EH wrote: »

Geldoff's accent represented absolutely nowhere in Dublin, not at the time or now. :pac:

Geldof is still trying to deal with his 1950s upbringing. Bangs on about it every 5 minutes over in England.

partyguinness · 12-10-2020 3:50pm

To answer the OP.

A strong Dublin accent to a non Dub is like have needles rammed into your eardrums...repeatedly.

Tony EH · 12-10-2020 4:05pm

partyguinness wrote: »

To answer the OP.

A strong Dublin accent to a non Dub is like have needles rammed into your eardrums...repeatedly.

Perhaps. But compared to a Belfast accent it's like a soft summer breeze.

partyguinness · 12-10-2020 4:11pm

Tony EH wrote: »

Perhaps. But compared to a Belfast accent it's like a soft summer breeze.

TBH I think a strong accent from any region grates.

Tony EH · 12-10-2020 4:14pm

partyguinness wrote: »

TBH I think a strong accent from any region grates.

Perhaps. But I still like them.

The worst thing about any accent is that they come with an imposed stigma, depending on who the listener is. It would be a fine thing if we could leave that behind.

John_Rambo · 12-10-2020 4:18pm

Country girls love the Dublin accent. They often travel to the capital for some Dub action.

partyguinness · 12-10-2020 4:53pm

Tony EH wrote: »

Perhaps. But I still like them.

The worst thing about any accent is that they come with an imposed stigma, depending on who the listener is. It would be a fine thing if we could leave that behind.

I was at some course or something in England about 10 years ago and this lady was a speech therapist of sorts.

Basically, in her view having a strong accent or different pronunciations was taken as ill-educated i.e. we should all sound the same.

I could have chucked my cup of bad coffee at her.

partyguinness · 12-10-2020 4:54pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

Country girls love the Dublin accent. They often travel to the capital for some Dub action.

No man. They just shag other boggers. You got no frontage.

topper75 · 12-10-2020 5:44pm

partyguinness wrote: »

I was at some course or something in England about 10 years ago and this lady was a speech therapist of sorts.

Basically, in her view having a strong accent or different pronunciations was taken as ill-educated i.e. we should all sound the same.

I could have chucked my cup of bad coffee at her.

Bizarrely intolerant opinion of hers given her profession. What an ugly fantasy she has of same-sounding robots.

Did she not ever consider that kids of 4 have no 'education' to speak of, yet they have accents relating to where they grew up.

partyguinness · 12-10-2020 5:49pm

topper75 wrote: »

Bizarrely intolerant opinion of hers given her profession. What an ugly fantasy she has of same-sounding robots.

Did she not ever consider that kids of 4 have no 'education' to speak of, yet they have accents relating to where they grew up.

I do recall being quite taken aback and still recall it. I can only surmise she was masking her own insecurities.

Deebles McBeebles · 12-10-2020 6:27pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

Country girls love the Dublin accent. They often travel to the capital for some Dub action.

Is "Dub action", heroin?

More likely they travel up for a trip on the train, a few bits in Penneys (3 euro, I know, some value!), to hear the words yizzer and inallinanyways a few times and so they can tell the girls at home what a hole Dublin is when they head back to Tractor Land.

Tony EH · 12-10-2020 6:41pm

partyguinness wrote: »

I was at some course or something in England about 10 years ago and this lady was a speech therapist of sorts.

Basically, in her view having a strong accent or different pronunciations was taken as ill-educated i.e. we should all sound the same.

I could have chucked my cup of bad coffee at her.

It's a trapping of that "Finishing School" sort. More an outward projection of snobbery than a factual note. But she certainly wouldn't have been alone in that type of thinking. Anywhere you go, you'll encounter people who attach speech patterns with a level of intellect.

In the modern age, it remains a bizarre hangover though.

An accent is formed, largely, through interaction with peers and everyday contacts. Which is why if one moves away from a country to another, you'll find yourself taking on certain words, phases and lilt, even if you fight against it.

I was in San Francisco a number of years ago and was talking with a woman from New York, who'd lived there for a while. I noticed that she was speaking with that questioning intonation that was limited to the west coast at the time (but now appears everywhere) and that she was losing her nice NYC accent.

She nearly hit me.

riclad · 12-10-2020 6:49pm

Every country town has pennys and dunnes stores shops.
Every small town has the same shop,s , uk chain stores.
I know dunne stores is irish owned.
i wonder if children of people who speak with a dart accent speak the same way.
when you are a child you simply learn english from your family no effort needed .You tend to speak in the same accent as your parents.
Most bbc presenters have a middle class accent ,or a mild regional accent.
i think the worst accent is a strong northern ireland accent ,it sounds very threatening and rough .

saabsaab · 12-10-2020 7:47pm

riclad wrote: »

Every country town has pennys and dunnes stores shops.
Every small town has the same shop,s , uk chain stores.
I know dunne stores is irish owned.
i wonder if children of people who speak with a dart accent speak the same way.
when you are a child you simply learn english from your family no effort needed .You tend to speak in the same accent as your parents.
Most bbc presenters have a middle class accent ,or a mild regional accent.
i think the worst accent is a strong northern ireland accent ,it sounds very threatening and rough .

Daniel O'Donnell?

riclad · 12-10-2020 7:55pm

i,m not saying there are not nice northern irish accents,
liam neeson has a nice accent.
i mean for example trade union leaders or unionists would be interviewed
on the news and there accents were fairly rough .
its probably a working class urban northern irish accent

Zascar · 13-10-2020 6:15am

There is a difference betgween a dublin accent - and then just speaking badly. I know plenty of people with Dublin accents but they use the language correctly - but the stereotype of a harsh Dublin accent is unable to pronounce 'th' -e.g: dis, dat, dese and does etc. Tree insstead of Three. Then bad grammar like I seen, I done, I does be etc. Why don't they don't teach this in schools??

John_Rambo · 13-10-2020 3:05pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Is "Dub action", heroin?

More likely they travel up for a trip on the train, a few bits in Penneys (3 euro, I know, some value!), to hear the words yizzer and inallinanyways a few times and so they can tell the girls at home what a hole Dublin is when they head back to Tractor Land.

^ the lads don't like it that the girls like the Dub accent.

saabsaab · 15-10-2020 8:31pm

Zascar wrote: »

There is a difference betgween a dublin accent - and then just speaking badly. I know plenty of people with Dublin accents but they use the language correctly - but the stereotype of a harsh Dublin accent is unable to pronounce 'th' -e.g: dis, dat, dese and does etc. Tree insstead of Three. Then bad grammar like I seen, I done, I does be etc. Why don't they don't teach this in schools??

Yes. RTE seems to use words incorrectly very often. Like 'very concerning' or 'infamous' and 'presently'

Edgware · 15-10-2020 11:43pm

partyguinness wrote: »

No man. They just shag other boggers. You got no frontage.

Ya, it takes more than a bag of chips for Bridie to spread them unlike Jacinta who will do anything for a doner kebab.

Edgware · 15-10-2020 11:45pm

riclad wrote: »

i,m not saying there are not nice northern irish accents,
liam neeson has a nice accent.
i mean for example trade union leaders or unionists would be interviewed
on the news and there accents were fairly rough .
its probably a working class urban northern irish accent

Thats because of the sittyashun

PoisonIvyBelle · 16-10-2020 1:56am

Edgware wrote: »

Thats because of the sittyashun sit-che-ay-shun.

FYP;)

smilerf · 16-10-2020 2:01am

I'm not a fan but Martin King

cameramonkey · 16-10-2020 2:13am

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Is it 'inallinanyways' or 'inallinalleyways'? I've always wondered but never asked.

'inallinannyways' is how I hear it, it is a beautiful sound especially when a strung out fellow does it in slow motion. Takes about 5 seconds to complete.

smilerf · 16-10-2020 2:36am

And Nicky Byrne has an accent

Why aren't there more strong Dublin accents in the media?

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