How bad or good is alcohol for society

14-06-2019 8:23pm #1

Just getting peoples opinions really

This is not an alcohol pro or anti thread

I am doing a lot of reading about the pros and cons. The alarming thing really is that I didn't realise alcohol is the biggest killer of any drug by a long shot. Is it cos its readily available and ingrained in society or is it really worse. I know the arguments are there for its social and people enjoy it but will the same attitude exist in 50 - 100 years? Why is alcohol the only legal drug that isnt forced to list side effects etc., why did the alcohol industry find the warning labels so much when its fact it is cancerous.
I do wonder is the alcohol the new smoking, as in people couldn't comprehend cigarettes downfall over the last 50 years when previously it was social and cool.

Just looking for opinions and not the usual boring non drinkers or alcoholic bashing

14-06-2019 8:25pm

The Friendly Nazi wrote: »

It causes harm but on the other hand, no one would ever get laid without it. So yeah.

Haha

Harry Palmr · 14-06-2019 8:26pm

Could be better than the alternative if the alternative is cocaine. If the alternative is mad sex then it's worse. Drinking is really just a way of passing time.

How Soon Is Now · 14-06-2019 8:28pm

Alcohol like so many other ''evils'' of the world doesn't become a problem until the wrong person gets there hands on it and abuses it!

Fr_Dougal · 14-06-2019 8:28pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Could be better than the alternative if the alternative is cocaine. If the alternative is mad sex then it's worse. Drinking is really just a way of passing time.

Yeah, comes in handy when I’m stuck in traffic.

Snotty · 14-06-2019 8:29pm

Having worked in the industry for more years than I should have, it's a curse of a drug that ruins life's all over the country, if it was banned tomorrow, I would rejoice.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 14-06-2019 8:29pm

Dr. Bre · 14-06-2019 8:30pm

Snotty wrote: »

Having worked in the industry for more years than I should have, it's a curse of a drug that ruins life's all over the country, if it was banned tomorrow, I would rejoice.

I’d sAy your great crack

odyssey06 · 14-06-2019 8:36pm

In all risks mortalities studies moderate drinkers have the best outcomes.

Don't just look at the stats on cancer look at strokes and heart attacks also. You will notice the anti alcohol lobby don't.

So I think alcohol can be good for society ... with the right attitude.

TheValeyard · 14-06-2019 8:37pm

It's the cause of and solution to, life's problems.

14-06-2019 8:37pm

Dr. Bre wrote: »

I’d sAy your great crack

Ah was waiting for it. We've definitely been conditioned to only associate alcohol with fun. Don't know how children have far more fun than us without any desire for a drug.

Been reading a lot of unconscious conditioning that begins in early childhood. The wheel keeps turning as this generation had been conditioned to thinking drinking is an adult fun thing cos they see their parents doing it, the cycle continues until the chain is broke

Society needs a replacement social scene

specky4eyes · 14-06-2019 8:39pm

Dr. Bre wrote: »

I’d sAy your great crack

I'd say he's a little wiser than you. BTW I'm having a pint now, I can't say I'm enjoying it, I need it, big difference.

Large bottle small glass · 14-06-2019 8:43pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

In all risks mortalities studies moderate drinkers have the best outcomes.

Don't just look at the stats on cancer look at strokes and heart attacks also. You will notice the anti alcohol lobby don't.

So I think alcohol can be good for society ... with the right attitude.

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2017/04/01/what-causes-heart-disease-part-xxix/

Richard Hillman · 14-06-2019 8:44pm

I like it. Its good. Its a stress reliever.

gctest50 · 14-06-2019 8:51pm

Non drinkers are the worst to employ

Way more likely to develop mental problems while they are working for you

Way more likely to take time off over minor things, injuries etc

14-06-2019 8:53pm

gctest50 wrote: »

Non drinkers are the worst to employ

Way more likely to develop mental problems while they are working for you

Way more likely to take time off over minor things, injuries etc

Did you mean drinkers or was this a sarcastic message

ILoveYourVibes · 14-06-2019 8:59pm

gctest50 wrote: »

Non drinkers are the worst to employ

Way more likely to develop mental problems while they are working for you

Way more likely to take time off over minor things, injuries etc

I know I'm the worst! :eek:

I break a nail TWO WEEKS OFF!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 14-06-2019 9:19pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Dr. Bre wrote: »

I’d sAy your great crack

Ah was waiting for it. We've definitely been conditioned to only associate alcohol with fun. Don't know how children have far more fun than us without any desire for a drug.

Been reading a lot of unconscious conditioning that begins in early childhood. The wheel keeps turning as this generation had been conditioned to thinking drinking is an adult fun thing cos they see their parents doing it, the cycle continues until the chain is broke

Society needs a replacement social scene

More an alternative to the social scene than a replacement.

The problems start when people can't differentiate between socialising and drinking.

OldMrBrennan83 · 14-06-2019 9:21pm

It's fine. People who abuse it are bad for society, not alcohol.

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Nobelium · 14-06-2019 9:22pm

Alcohol is actually a poison to the body. Doesn't stop us guzzling it though.

Nobelium · 14-06-2019 9:26pm

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

It's fine. People who abuse it are bad for society, not alcohol.

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Well given the huge rates of regular binge drinking in Ireland (over 8 units in a single session for men and over 6 units per women ) , and the mess left behind on our main streets every Monday morning, that's a lot of people you are attempting to label there.

Also, you don't know much about addiction if you believe that.

gctest50 · 14-06-2019 9:27pm

Nobelium wrote: »

Alcohol is actually a poison to the body. Doesn't stop us guzzling it though.

Your body has tools specifically to deal with it

Unless you are one of the percentage of Asian people who don't and suffer " Asian Flush "

14-06-2019 9:28pm

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

It's fine. People who abuse it are bad for society, not alcohol.

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

I look at this point very differently. Some people have a better tolerance to drugs than others, I have seen people drinking normal for years only to seriously slip deeper and deeper into alcoholism in their 40s and 50s and end up in serious problems and mental issues

The fact that a healthy lifestyle just isnt compatible with alcohol says a lot. Ask anyone who exercises regularly who gets their BMI weight to the norm how drink affects them compared with the unhealthy beer belly drinker.

My experience is years back when I had about 10kg extra weight i could drink a lot more and not have it really affect me bad but it would be the usual crap food the next day. Since I am exercising and running, eating healthy and 10 kg lighter I can't handle a fraction of what I could before and I would be in bits the next day. I think it's a sign as a 10kg heavier drinker that my body was totally unhealthy and used to abuse, as a healthier 10kg lighter drinker my body outright rejected the poison

Nobelium · 14-06-2019 9:29pm

gctest50 wrote: »

Your body has tools specifically to deal with it

as with most poisons up to a certain quantity / concentration.

gctest50 · 14-06-2019 9:31pm

Nobelium wrote: »

as with most poisons up to a certain quantity / concentration.

Drink enough water and you'll die from hypotrenemia

OldMrBrennan83 · 14-06-2019 9:32pm

Nobelium wrote: »

Well given the huge rates of regular binge drinking in Ireland (over 8 units in a single session for men and over 6 units per women ) , and the mess left behind on our main streets every Monday morning, that's a lot of people you are attempting to label there.

Also, you don't know much about addiction if you believe that.

If it is a lot of people then that's their problem and they're the ones that need to be targeted. Alcohol isn't the problem when so many can enjoy it responsibly.

If someone is abusing drink then **** them. If they're causing problems for others then stop them. Some people are the biggest issue in that, not what they're drinking. All this rubbish is just another bull**** rejection of anything that "used to be done" here in an effort to look ever so modern and progressive.

Nobelium · 14-06-2019 9:33pm

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

If it is a lot of people then that's their problem and they're the ones that need to be targeted.

Well actually it's also the taxpayers problem, big time. From health to crime.

OldMrBrennan83 · 14-06-2019 9:35pm

Nobelium wrote: »

Well actually it's also the taxpayers problem, big time. From health to crime.

Then cut them off. Punish the people causing the problem, not the ones who don't cause one.

Personal responsibility.

Nobelium · 14-06-2019 9:35pm

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Then cut them off. Punish the people causing the problem, not the ones who don't cause one.

How do you propose to do that ?

gctest50 · 14-06-2019 9:36pm

Nobelium wrote: »

Well actually it's also the taxpayers problem, big time. From health to crime.

Alcohol excise contributes €1.2 billion to the exchequer.

As you know the HSE/ALwhateverthef**k ate grossly ineffiexient and wasteful

14-06-2019 9:36pm

gctest50 wrote: »

Drink enough water and you'll die from hypotrenemia

It's funny you could guzzle 10 pints in a few hours but try guzzling 10 pints of anything else and youd seriously struggle.

Alcohol is a genius drug. If alcohol is so acceptable and good for you then why do the drinks industry pay so much advertising it. Its thought when some of the stupid ads are dismissed by people as stupid that the unconscious stores it differently

There was a movement to a new exercise and outdoor activity society during the recession but the pubs left are getting busy again.

I do wonder when the same people drink 5-7 days a week from say 5 -9 in the evening, are they depressed, bored or just hate their lives that they don't want to be at home

OldMrBrennan83 · 14-06-2019 9:36pm

Nobelium wrote: »

How do you propose to do that ?

By whatever it takes rather than the easy way out always. Many people can enjoy alcohol and cause no issues for anyone.

Personal responsibility.

_blaaz · 14-06-2019 9:37pm

gctest50 wrote: »

Alcohol excise contributes €1.2 billion to the exchequer.

What deos it cost in healthcare and lost productivity?

Nobelium · 14-06-2019 9:38pm

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

By whatever it takes rather than the easy way out always.

Again, back in reality, how do you propose to do that, examples etc.

14-06-2019 9:39pm

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

By whatever it takes rather than the easy way out always. Many people can enjoy alcohol and cause no issues for anyone.

Personal responsibility.

Missing the point it's an addictive drug

I knew people who would take it or leave it with tablets and coke, does it make it ok when they take it.

Or the people you see drinking 15 pints cos they are snorting lines in the Jack's and yes that quantity does happen. I've seen it

odyssey06 · 14-06-2019 9:40pm

gctest50 wrote: »

Alcohol excise contributes €1.2 billion to the exchequer.
As you know the HSE/ALwhateverthef**k ate grossly ineffiexient and wasteful

Plus... 92,000 jobs and €1 billion in exports.

odyssey06 · 14-06-2019 9:40pm

_blaaz wrote: »

What deos it cost in healthcare and lost productivity?

Health care costs are net zero in the sense that it is impossible to know. If someone doesn't drink, they don't magically never enter a hospital or claim a pension. They just get dementia, alzheimers, different forms of cancer, heart attacks, strokes, arthritis, osteoparosis...

OldMrBrennan83 · 14-06-2019 9:40pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Missing the point it's an addictive drug

I knew people who would take it or leave it with tablets and coke, does it make it ok when they take it.

Or the people you see drinking 15 pints cos they are snorting lines in the Jack's and yes that quantity does happen. I've seen it

Lots of people don't have any issue with it so that's absolute rubbish. Illegal substances have zero to do with this, they're illegal.

14-06-2019 9:42pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Plus... 92,000 jobs and €1 billion in exports.

Legalise other addictive drugs too, that would help the farmers and create employment. It's like the smoking adverts and pub ban, it was hysteria and this and that. Time has proven it was the right thing for society in general. People rightly look at smoking as the cancer odour disgusting habit it is

gctest50 · 14-06-2019 9:44pm

_blaaz wrote: »

What deos it cost in healthcare and lost productivity?

Depends -

actual cost-to-healthcare

vs

what-it-costs-because-of-the-grossly-wasteful-healthcare-in-Ireland

14-06-2019 9:44pm

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Lots of people don't have any issue with it so that's absolute rubbish. Illegal substances have zero to do with this, they're illegal.

Majority of Irish people would drink well in excess of the safe limit at a single sitting. Most people wouldn't bat an eyelid at having 5 pints or cans on a night. Or the 2 bottles of wine at dinner on a week night epidemic

OldMrBrennan83 · 14-06-2019 9:45pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Majority of Irish people would drink well in excess of the safe limit at a single sitting. Most people wouldn't bat an eyelid at having 5 pints or cans on a night. Or the 2 bottles of wine at dinner on a week night epidemic

Safe limits? They're legally binding?

caff · 14-06-2019 9:45pm

Alcohol is odd
It's a
Sedative
Stimulant
Psychoactive
Depressant
There really isn't any other drug that combines these normally opposing effects in a single substance
It's like mixing mdma cannabis cocaine and valium in one

odyssey06 · 14-06-2019 9:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Majority of Irish people would drink well in excess of the safe limit at a single sitting. Most people wouldn't bat an eyelid at having 5 pints or cans on a night. Or the 2 bottles of wine at dinner on a week night epidemic

To your first sentence no.
To your second sentence no.
To your third sentence no.

ps the safe limits are nonsense or they wouldn't vary between country to country

14-06-2019 9:50pm

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Safe limits? They're legally binding?

I worked in a pub years back, very rarely did people stop at 3 or 4 pints and normally left fairly steamed but probably didnt realise it.

I heard all the arguments, from some people being told the drink doesn't suit to I can take it or leave, the other being I enjoy the taste, the list goes in. Fact is different drugs affect different people in different ways.

If I can handle a joint better than a pint then is there an argument that I should be allowed have that drug cos i can handle it better.

Alcohol is an age old problem and people are afraid of any alternative

OldMrBrennan83 · 14-06-2019 9:52pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I worked in a pub years back, very rarely did people stop at 3 or 4 pints and normally left fairly steamed but probably didnt realise it.

I heard all the arguments, from some people being told the drink doesn't suit to I can take it or leave, the other being I enjoy the taste, the list goes in. Fact is different drugs affect different people in different ways.

If I can handle a joint better than a pint then is there an argument that I should be allowed have that drug cos i can handle it better.

Alcohol is an age old problem and people are afraid of any alternative

That still doesn't make these 'safe' limits legally binding. They're loose suggestions, so comparing it to your illegal drugs is clutching of the highest order.

Alcohol, like everything else, is never the biggest problem in society. The biggest problem in any society are arseholes that cause trouble, for whatever reason.

Personal Responsibility.

Nobelium · 14-06-2019 9:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I worked in a pub years back, very rarely did people stop at 3 or 4 pints and normally left fairly steamed but probably didnt realise it.

I heard all the arguments, from some people being told the drink doesn't suit to I can take it or leave, the other being I enjoy the taste, the list goes in. Fact is different drugs affect different people in different ways.

All drug users come out with the similar old excuses / defences.

14-06-2019 9:52pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

To your first sentence no.
To your second sentence no.
To your third sentence no.

ps the safe limits are nonsense or they wouldn't vary between country to country

Alcohol attitude is changing, I think in our lifetime we are going to witness a major shift away from it

14-06-2019 9:54pm

Nobelium wrote: »

All drug users come out with the similar old excuses / defences.

Yep they do, it's funny when you dig deeper

We craved to like it cos let's face it who likes beer at the start, it was horrible

14-06-2019 9:56pm

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

That still doesn't make these 'safe' limits legally binding. They're loose suggestions, so comparing it to your illegal drugs is clutching of the highest order.

Alcohol, like everything else, is never the biggest problem in society. The biggest problem in any society are arseholes that cause trouble, for whatever reason.

Personal Responsibility.

Nothing to do with brainwashing and social exclusion

Why is it that working class areas suffer the most, not saying its exclusive to working class before you come back with that.

Nobelium · 14-06-2019 9:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yep they do, it's funny when you dig deeper

We craved to like it cos let's face it who likes beer at the start, it was horrible

George Best always said he despised the taste of alcohol, right to the end.

I always liked his honesty about that aspect of it.

How bad or good is alcohol for society

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