Portmarnock residents up in arms

Zulu · 10-09-2018 10:32am

Cant wait for the more frequent :rolleyes: (only upto howth junction) service this evening.

Expect long waits and crammed trains going home folks.

PCros · 10-09-2018 10:38am

What trains are only going as far as Howth Junction later?

Zulu · 10-09-2018 10:50am

PCros wrote: »

What trains are only going as far as Howth Junction later?

With no diesels now stopping, it's only every second dart that will service clongriffin & portmarnock. 20mins wait at rush hour. Awesome.

Colonel Claptrap · 10-09-2018 10:52am

devnull wrote: »

There are a higher number of DART carriages in service at peak time now than before the timetable change.

Think the belief that you seem to suggest that there are less DART coaches in service than before is ridiculously hyperbolic.

Even if they didn't add any more and kept the same capacity would be the same it would just be spread different on DART services.

8 carriage DART's usually serviced morning peak at Portmarnock before today. I can't speak for all services but the one I got had 6 carriages.

That also doesn't account for the missing commuter carriages which took half of the peak passengers from the platform.

It's only day 1, but from my point of view twice as many passengers were forced onto a service 25% smaller than usual.

Let's see how those averages play out over the coming week but certainly this morning saw reduced capacity, reduced frequency and increased journey times. Zero benefit. All downside.

devnull · 10-09-2018 10:52am

Zulu wrote: »

With no diesels now stopping, it's only every second dart that will service clongriffin & portmarnock. 20mins wait at rush hour. Awesome.

Considering barely any diesels stopped at Clongriffin and the service was one DART every 30 minutes for the majority of the day and it's now every 20 minutes , that's a big improvement for people in Clongriffin.

Even in morning peak it used to be every 30 minutes for the vast majority of it and it's now every 20 minutes, and the big 45 minute gap in Malahide DARTs in evening peak is now gone thank the lord.

devnull · 10-09-2018 10:53am

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

8 carriage DART's usually serviced morning peak at Portmarnock before today. I can't speak for all services but the one I got had 6 carriages.

That also doesn't account for the missing commuter carriages which took half of the peak passengers from the platform.

It's only day 1, but from my point of view twice as many passengers were forced onto a service 25% smaller than usual.

Let's see how those averages play out over the coming week but certainly this morning saw reduced capacity, reduced frequency and increased journey times. Zero benefit. All downside.

From what I saw the loadings were far from evenly spread, as you say there were some trains completely overloaded, but others were far less so.

Lets see how it plays out.

Zulu · 10-09-2018 11:11am

devnull wrote: »

Considering barely any diesels stopped at Clongriffin and the service was one DART every 30 minutes for the majority of the day and it's now every 20 minutes , that's a big improvement for people in Clongriffin.

The "majority" of the day? You mean "off peak"?

Yeah, so if you mean to "improve" the service for those infrequent minority of passengers, good job, I'll be sure to be grateful that odd time I'm using the service when I'm not commuting to work.

Unfortunately, that's no use to the majority of passengers who use it daily to get in and out of work. You know, that "minority" part of the day that impacts the most people, most of the time.

ThunbergsAreGo · 10-09-2018 11:15am

d15ude wrote: »

Yes, times are changing. There are more houses in the area than ever before.
If anything, there should be more and quicker trains!

I'm in D15, so no personal stakes in Portmarnock.
But same issues here.

Thats the same for most of North Dublin

Loads of new housing and no increase in transport

ThunbergsAreGo · 10-09-2018 11:16am

lawred2 wrote: »

It's not

It most certainly is,

no more direct busto town north of Swords

PCros · 10-09-2018 11:50am

lawred2 wrote: »

No I think it was the full extent of the platform. Used to get the 811 myself. I'll miss it. 30 minutes into town will get very frustrating.

What time did the 814 get you into town at? Pearse?

lawred2 · 10-09-2018 11:54am

PCros wrote: »

What time did the 814 get you into town at? Pearse?

Roughly 844 or so at Connolly

devnull · 10-09-2018 11:56am

Zulu wrote: »

The "majority" of the day? You mean "off peak"?

For the first half of morning peak, Clongriffin had trains at 6.37, 7.07, 7.37. Now it has trains at 6.27, 6.47, 7.07, 7.27. Note that whilst all commuter services stopped at Portmarnock, very few of them did at CLongriffin.

The earlier first train was also lobbied to Irish Rail by business at EastPoint Business Park, to allow their staff to get in for a 7am start.

Zulu · 10-09-2018 11:59am

devnull wrote: »

For the first half of morning peak, Clongriffin had trains at 6.37, 7.07, 7.37. Now it has trains at 6.27, 6.47, 7.07, 7.27. Note that whilst all commuter services stopped at Portmarnock, very few of them did at CLongriffin.

The earlier first train was also lobbied to Irish Rail by business at EastPoint Business Park, to allow their staff to get in for a 7am start.

My point stands for Portmarnock regardless.

Sono · 10-09-2018 12:36pm

Got the 7:19 Dart from Howth junction this morning, half a dart, wedged by Raheny.

I used to go in early so I would get in comfortably on the dart and sit down for my 35 min journey, not impressed this morning at all

Decuc500 · 10-09-2018 1:14pm

Sono wrote: »

Got the 7:19 Dart from Howth junction this morning, half a dart, wedged by Raheny.

I used to go in early so I would get in comfortably on the dart and sit down for my 35 min journey, not impressed this morning at all

Has every dart from the Northside being cut in half? Surely there's enough carriages in circulation to have rush hour 6/8 carriages and non rush hour 4?

This new timetable is beyond ridiculous and has created crushes where there were none previously.

AlekSmart · 10-09-2018 1:44pm

Serena Williams could'nt play a better ding-dong game

In essence this thread underlines the reality of how Dublin and environs continue to rely upon a largely unaltered Railway network from the latter half of the 19th Century.

http://industrialheritageireland.info/railwayarchaeology/index.php/railway-archaeology-of-ireland/chapter-1-railway-history-of-ireland/

Sadly for Busconnects,the attempts to encourage multi-modal commuting will fall at the hurdle of attempting to sledgehammer the 19th Century Rail into a (hopefully) 21st Century Bus system.....

I do hope the NTA have a suitably enthusiastic fellow to handle the PR for this aspect alone ?

thomasj · 10-09-2018 1:49pm

The NBRU in the booklets that it distributed following busconnects announcement warned that this would happen .......

XPS_Zero · 10-09-2018 1:54pm

I'm of two minds on this, at first it seems like the same "only look at my bit of the jigsaw puzzle not the big picture" tendency among Irish people that plagues any policy change. But it seems odd to cut services to a station with so much increaced capacity.

Could someone explain something, I get that the locals hate losing the more express service to CC and half their services, but I don't get two things:

1. Is Portmarnock only mad busy at the rush hours? If so, is there not some soloution that can be arrived at where trains are slotted into the timetable that are rush hour only?

2. What is IE trying to gain here? To main more room overall for 10 min DARTs by getting more Commuters out of the way faster?

3. Anyone have any actual ideas on how they could fix this without making a balls of the 10 min plan?

end of the road · 10-09-2018 2:07pm

devnull wrote: »

There are a higher number of DART carriages in service at peak time now than before the timetable change.

Think the belief that you seem to suggest that there are less DART coaches in service than before is ridiculously hyperbolic.

Even if they didn't add any more and kept the same capacity would be the same it would just be spread different on DART services.

i don't think he is suggesting there are less dart carriges in service. i think his point is that the amount of dart carriges we have cannot do both the running of a 10 minute service and have full capacity on services. in short, we have enough sets to send a train out to run services but not enough sets to insure those trains are as long as possible/needed. you are right the load will spread around a bit but don't forget the new users/potential new users including those displaced from the suburbans at portmarnock.

ixoy · 10-09-2018 2:39pm

I get on at Killester and packed trains could stop me completely. My 0757 train used to be followed by one at 1802. Now there's a 10 minute gap and what sounds like reduced capacity, which will be a right pain.

Was there any thoughts given to properly increasing capacity at rush hour? It's nuts to have almost the same numbers as off peak.

devnull · 10-09-2018 2:51pm

ixoy wrote: »

I get on at Killester and packed trains could stop me completely. My 0757 train used to be followed by one at 1802. Now there's a 10 minute gap and what sounds like reduced capacity, which will be a right pain.

Well on the old Timetable when I used to work at Eastpoint in 2017, my Malahide DART was at 18:01 and the next one was at 18:46, both of which were regularly a struggle to board.

For people working in Eastpoint and living in Malahide, Portmarnock and Clongriffin, the new timetable is a massive improvement on what went before.

I agree there are winners and losers, but people make out that the last timetable was perfect, when there were people, like Eastpoint workers living in the places above, who were very badly served by it.

ThunbergsAreGo · 10-09-2018 2:55pm

Really feels like the Transport Authorities dont plan for people commuting to work in rush hour at all

Colonel Claptrap · 10-09-2018 2:56pm

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I'm of two minds on this, at first it seems like the same "only look at my bit of the jigsaw puzzle not the big picture" tendency among Irish people that plagues any policy change. But it seems odd to cut services to a station with so much increaced capacity.

Fingal county council designated lands directly beside the station as priority residential zoning when creating the South Portmarnock Local Area Plan (LAP). This provides for up to 900 dwellings.

In addition, 1 of these developments was the first in the country to be awarded fast track planning permission under new Dept. Of Housing initiative to strategically build homes close to key transport infrastructure.

In this case, it's not the locals obsessed with the jigsaw piece and ignoring the bigger puzzle. Its the NTA and Irish Rail.

devnull · 10-09-2018 2:57pm

naughtb4 wrote: »

Really feels like the Transport Authorities dont plan for people commuting to work in rush hour at all

With all due respect, the infrastructure that is needed to make the services the best they can be is not there, but they don't use the loop at Clongriffin anywhere near enougn.

XPS_Zero · 10-09-2018 3:02pm

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Fingal county council designated lands directly beside the station as priority residential zoning when creating the South Portmarnock Local Area Plan (LAP). This provides for up to 900 dwellings.

In addition, 1 of these developments was the first in the country to be awarded fast track planning permission under new Dept. Of Housing initiative to strategically build homes close to key transport infrastructure.

In this case, it's not the locals obsessed with the jigsaw piece and ignoring the bigger puzzle. Its the NTA and Irish Rail.

Aren't there plans to four track this area and don't we already have to CPO and smash through houses to accomplish this? Why build houses on this land?

Or was that just a proposed "could be done" thing I'm confusing with an actual plan? If we do DU and Metro (ever...ever...) it might negate the need for that.

It does seem strange to depriortize a growing area. The entire rationale for BRT, new bus plans in north side and Metro was the exploding population in the Swords area.

Colonel Claptrap · 10-09-2018 3:54pm

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Aren't there plans to four track this area and don't we already have to CPO and smash through houses to accomplish this? Why build houses on this land?

Plenty of room was left for quad tracking.

XPS_Zero · 10-09-2018 3:56pm

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Plenty of room was left for quad tracking.

As part of the plan? Good if that's the case, it would just be surprising competence.

Its not just the ps
As I get older, I find that what I was told was true, you find far more incompetence in the world than the opposite.

ThunbergsAreGo · 10-09-2018 3:57pm

devnull wrote: »

With all due respect, the infrastructure that is needed to make the services the best they can be is not there, but they don't use the loop at Clongriffin anywhere near enougn.

They have just removed trains from the time people are commuting

devnull · 10-09-2018 4:05pm

naughtb4 wrote: »

They have just removed trains from the time people are commuting

Not for all people, as I said, people at Eastpoint who live in Portmarnock, Malahide and Clongriffin had to wait over 40 minutes between services in evening peak and even then were not able to board a train. Now they have a service every 20 minutes.

They were also unable to get to work for a 7.00am start, which was a problem because most of the companies there are doing work for the whole of Europe which is an hour ahead so 7.00am in Ireland is 8.00am in Europe. This has also been resolved as first train of the day leaves 10 minutes earlier.

Sure, there are some losers in this as well, but to say everyone has lost out isn't true at all.

thomasj · 10-09-2018 4:09pm

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/1039168031124086784?s=09

devnull · 10-09-2018 4:12pm

I believe the issue is a lack of staff to drive the trains.

Zulu · 10-09-2018 4:17pm

devnull wrote: »

...Sure, there are some losers in this as well, but to say everyone has lost out isn't true at all.

"Some"? Save the handful who work in Eastpoint (and I'm not convinced they've gained but I'll take your word fro it), the majority from Portmarnock have lost out

ThunbergsAreGo · 10-09-2018 4:22pm

devnull wrote: »

Not for all people, as I said, people at Eastpoint who live in Portmarnock, Malahide and Clongriffin had to wait over 40 minutes between services in evening peak and even then were not able to board a train. Now they have a service every 20 minutes.

They were also unable to get to work for a 7.00am start, which was a problem because most of the companies there are doing work for the whole of Europe which is an hour ahead so 7.00am in Ireland is 8.00am in Europe. This has also been resolved as first train of the day leaves 10 minutes earlier.

Sure, there are some losers in this as well, but to say everyone has lost out isn't true at all.

I did mean more general transport as opposed to this directly. The trains are full to capacity and large increases are expected in Fingal over the next few years.

The plan seems to be leave the trains as they are (or reduce service in this case) and remove express buses, replacing them with interchanges.

PCros · 10-09-2018 4:24pm

devnull wrote: »

I believe the issue is a lack of staff to drive the trains.

If that was the case surely they would have known that more than 15 minutes before the first cancellation?

devnull · 10-09-2018 4:27pm

PCros wrote: »

If that was the case surely they would have known that more than 15 minutes before the first cancellation?

Not if it's unofficial industrial action, which has been hinted at previously.

Zulu wrote: »

"Some"? Save the handful who work in Eastpoint (and I'm not convinced they've gained but I'll take your word fro it), the majority from Portmarnock have lost out

More than a handful, the number of staff who work there is in four figures!

Before it was impossible for someone from Clongriffin/Portmarnock/Malahide to get there for 7.00am, people in Clongriffin had 30 minutes between trains in morning peak and now have 20 and there was a 40 minute gap in Malahide DARTS in the evening, these are all facts.

I'm not saying that it means that others should suffer, just highlighting the point.

Zulu · 10-09-2018 4:33pm

devnull wrote: »

More than a handful, the number of staff who work there is in four figures!

And yet, they dont make up the majority. By a long shot.

I accept you are making a specific point, but in context it's a bit trivial.

Infini · 10-09-2018 4:52pm

devnull wrote: »

Not if it's unofficial industrial action, which has been hinted at previously.

Could also be people just sick and the lack of any spare drivers showing how thinly spread staff are too.

XPS_Zero · 10-09-2018 5:12pm

How did this line get on before the DARTs came along?

or is that so long ago is't an apples and oranges comparason? was there a major population spike during the latter tiger era in that area?

lawred2 · 10-09-2018 5:14pm

1714 from Connolly to Malahide is a few carriages short

lawred2 · 10-09-2018 5:17pm

XPS_Zero wrote: »

How did this line get on before the DARTs came along?

or is that so long ago is't an apples and oranges comparason? was there a major population spike during the latter tiger era in that area?

Not a relevant comparison I'd say.

devnull · 10-09-2018 5:17pm

Infini wrote: »

devnull wrote: »

Not if it's unofficial industrial action, which has been hinted at previously.

Could also be people just sick and the lack of any spare drivers showing how thinly spread staff are too.

Would this be in the same company that the staff spent a couple of years preventing new staff from completing their training whilst making extra money in overtime by doing so?

lawred2 · 10-09-2018 5:21pm

devnull wrote: »

Would this be in the same company that the staff spent a couple of years preventing new staff from completing their training whilst making extra money in overtime by doing so?

Ah heyor, don't go off joining all the dots now

ThunbergsAreGo · 10-09-2018 5:32pm

XPS_Zero wrote: »

How did this line get on before the DARTs came along?

or is that so long ago is't an apples and oranges comparason? was there a major population spike during the latter tiger era in that area?

Totally different , massive population growth since

Colonel Claptrap · 10-09-2018 6:42pm

I just missed the 18:47 northbound service from Pearse.
I have to wait 40 minutes for the next DART!

So much for a "10 minute DART" at off peak times which Irish Rail continue to call it. Ignoring the large number of stations with a 20 (or is it 40?) minute frequency.

Portmarnock has been well and truly screwed over by this timetable change. Utter shambles.

devnull · 10-09-2018 6:49pm

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

I just missed the 18:47 northbound service from Pearse. I have to wait 40 minutes for the next DART!

For some people that has been a daily occurrence for the last five years or so because the previous timetable actually left that kind of gap in the timetable in evening peak even when everything was running! At least now that kind of gap should not occur for anyone if all trains are running

Also bear in mind as I've said before, the fact that such trains are not running may not be because of lack of trains or drivers, but may be because of some kind of action that is resulting in not enough drivers being available to service the timetable, which it was suggested on here, might happen for the last few days.

Portmarnock has been well and truly screwed over by this timetable change. Utter shambles.

On the face of things Portmarnock has probably got the rawest deal of any station on the DART line, certainly, I don't dispute that, but Clongriffin got a raw deal on the old one with pretty much 30 minute frequency, since in morning peak, barely any commuters stop there, whilst the people working at Eastpoint living in Clongriffin, Portmarnock and Malahide benefit in evening peak too.

Colonel Claptrap · 10-09-2018 7:08pm

Why don't they run the Eastpoint shuttle bus into the back of the Connolly car park, enabling these thousands of workers to avail of northbound commuter services? Surely that's the fix to your problem, I would have thought?

Clontarf is not Pearse. Its on the periphery of the City Centre. It also acts a further choking point to the already strangled Connolly bottleneck. Not to mention the unscheduled (and unnecesary) Fairview stop to change drivers, chat about the weekend, and predict the score of the match tonight.

devnull · 10-09-2018 7:19pm

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Why don't they run the Eastpoint shuttle bus into the back of the Connolly car park, enabling these thousands of workers to avail of northbound commuter services? Surely that's the fix to your problem, I would have thought?

You have a very good point - however I suspect the fact is that it would substantially increase the EastPoint shuttles bus cost and they'd need to lay on more buses to do that and maintain frequency as the buses get caught in traffic. Plus there's also the question of if they could stop in the car park there without paying Irish Rail a hefty whack.

Clontarf is not Pearse. Its on the periphery of the City Centre. It also acts a further choking point to the already strangled Connolly bottleneck. Not to mention the unscheduled (and unnecesary) Fairview stop to change drivers, chat about the weekend, and predict the score of the match tonight.

Sure and I understand that, but do you agree that a 40+ minute gap in Malahide DART services in evening peak is not acceptable? Because that has been the reality for many people working in EastPoint, who then, surprise surprise, couldn't even get on a train sometimes after waiting that long, because it's totally wedged because of the 40 minute gap and every man and his dog has took that train because it's the first one in the time there were several Howths!

The best result would have been for IE to simply stop a single commuter at EastPoint between the 6.01 and 6.42 trains, however that is not something which they were open to do and obviously there is a question of capacity.

Agree about the Fairview situation as well, that's laughable but very much a union thing that should have been got rid of years ago, I've been stuck there for ages before whilst yer man chats to his colleague about everything under the sun and it is hugely frustrating.

Rashers72 · 10-09-2018 7:49pm

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

I just missed the 18:47 northbound service from Pearse.
I have to wait 40 minutes for the next DART!

To be fair DART cancellations due to driver shortages like those tonight are exceptional. IE should have stopped the Drogheda train at 19.23 at Clongriffin & Portmarnock which would have gotten you to the station at 19.40 approx. as opposed to 19.53. Customers were tweeting earlier looking for that once the notification of all the cancellations went up. Seems like a reasonable request, especially given the really bad experiences this morning.

lawred2 · 11-09-2018 8:05am

Got the 7:54 from Portmarnock this morning. Missing a few carriages and rammed at Raheny.

Colonel Claptrap · 11-09-2018 9:10am

Got the 8:14. All 8 carriages present, but they were rammed, stuffy, with condensation rolling down the windows.

A couple of tourists weren't sure where to get off - couldn't see platform names outside the windows. The PA was no help either. Deafening CCTV warnings sparsed with inaccurate next stop announcements.

Embarrassing to say the least.

Portmarnock residents up in arms

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