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Are Tax bands fair?

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  • 01-08-2015 12:47am
    #1
    Dots1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭


    When you think about is it fair that people who earn more income pay a greater rate of tax..like really..when you think about it..


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    #2
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    The more you have the more ability you have to avail of loopholes fancy accountants so there is a cut off. And no one pays 52% tax.


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    #3
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,544 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    No it's not. Everyone should pay the same rate regardless of income. Lower income brackets receive more services thus they should pay.


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    #4
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,176 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    No, absolutely not. It is one of the biggest disincentives to productivity and gumption in our society, and one of many reasons why the Insects will eventually win.


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    #5
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    No it's not. Everyone should pay the same rate regardless of income. Lower income brackets receive more services thus they should pay.

    lol that would destroy the economy pretty fast just having 1 rate of tax.


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    #6
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Hugely unfair and anti productivity. People don't seem to realize if you tax the job creators out of the country unemployment will rise.


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    #7
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,176 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    lol that would destroy the economy pretty fast just having 1 rate of tax.

    I'd consider it more of a "readjusting". :)


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    #8
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    The more you have the more ability you have to avail of loopholes fancy accountants so there is a cut off. And no one pays 52% tax.

    I do, on at least some of my income regardless of my pension contributions etc, and it seriously pisses me off

    I get notes every month on my ytd retention, and it currently sits at a rate I'd prefer not to think about.

    When you get a bonus and retain less than half of it you have to wonder why you would want to work hard and do well, and then listen to whingers on here complain.

    Something like less than 10% of PAYE workers in Ireland contribute about 90% of the total PAYE paid

    So no the disparity is wrong, lower paid should pay more, even 1%


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    #9
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Hugely unfair and anti productivity. People don't seem to realize if you tax the job creators out of the country unemployment will rise.

    That's proven to be nonsense, reducing tax on the wealth creators does not create more jobs. it just allows for the higher transfer of wealth to the already wealthy. Obviously there is a cut off were not talking 90% tax and alike.

    Don't you know the MNC are here for the talent :P


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    #10
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,544 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    lol that would destroy the economy pretty fast just having 1 rate of tax.

    Why should the rich be punished for being rich? The poor use most services therefore fairness is they should pay for those services and not ask those who don't use them to pay for them.


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    #11
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Stheno wrote: »
    I do, on at least some of my income regardless of my pension contributions etc, and it seriously pisses me off

    I get notes every month on my ytd retention, and it currently sits at a rate I'd prefer not to think about.

    When you get a bonus and retain less than half of it you have to wonder why you would want to work hard and do well, and then listen to whingers on here complain.

    Something like less than 10% of PAYE workers in Ireland contribute about 90% of the total PAYE paid

    So no the disparity is wrong, lower paid should pay more, even 1%

    See the bold.....


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    #12
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Why should the rich be punished for being rich? The poor use most services therefore fairness is they should pay for those services.

    Who is punishing them ?


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    #13
    EoghanIRL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭EoghanIRL


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    The more you have the more ability you have to avail of loopholes fancy accountants so there is a cut off. And no one pays 52% tax.

    I know people who do.
    There are incomes where you are earning well but not well enough to write off tax and hire fancy accountants.
    It's the biggest joke running if you ask me.
    I couldn't imagine giving the government more than I actually make.
    It's the high earners who are keeping the country running too. I'm surprised there are many left in Ireland to be honest.


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    #14
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,176 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    See the bold.....

    Hands off my twine, Pinko. You know where the USSR is. Oh, wait... :):):)


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    #15
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    jimgoose wrote: »
    Hands off my twine, Pinko. You know where the USSR is. Oh, wait... :):):)

    I have never voted left in my life. :pac:


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    #16
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,544 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Who is punishing them ?

    They are being told to pay for scumbags in council estates which the government refuses to punish for theft and anti social behaviour.

    No wonder so many are emigrating. It's not the economy. It is that they refuse to live in a society where the feckless are rewarded and the law abiding workers are punished to pay for them.


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    #17
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Yes, tax bands are fair and appropriate.

    Yes, the rich pay more relative to their income. But they have too benefited from society in some way or another. Take the man that built up his business from scratch, who was able to avail of lower tax rates when he was struggling and was perhaps granted tax relief and grants. Now he's rich and employing a few hundred people. WHy shouldn't he pay relatively more to the state that his business is dependent on than someone who was in his shoes of twenty years or so ago?

    Now imagine that same guy struggling to start up his business and being absolutely punished with tax. Those that went before him have benefited and are now paying relative peanuts compared to their actual income. How would a small company (and one that might be the next Apple or IBM) hope to compete?

    All having a flat tax rate (and enough tax to actually fund the country at that) would do is ensure the rich get richer and the poor can never pull themselves up. If you want a strongly stratified society with no social movement between classes, go for it, have a flat tax rate and watch the divide grow.


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    #18
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    They are being told to pay for scumbags in council estates which the government refuses to punish for theft and anti social behaviour.

    No wonder so many are emigrating. It's not the economy. It is that they refuse to live in a society where the feckless are rewarded and the law abiding workers are punished to pay for them.

    They would still be scumbags in or out of a council house. And I would wager law abiding citizens would turn to crime if ones utopia of single tax rate came about.


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    #19
    Naos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,728 ✭✭✭Naos


    Samaris wrote: »
    Take the man that built up his business from scratch, who was able to avail of lower tax rates when he was struggling and was perhaps granted tax relief and grants. Now he's rich and employing a few hundred people. WHy shouldn't he pay relatively more to the state that his business is dependent on than someone who was in his shoes of twenty years or so ago?

    Answer: because he is providing employment to a few hundred people.


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    #20
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,544 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    They would still be scumbags in or out of a council house.

    Great, let them live on the streets and see who gives a toss. That is where they belong, not with a taxpayer provided roof over their heads.


    Taxpayers in this country are being taken for fools not by the rich but by the abundance of underclass scroungers who go on fleecing this country and nothing is done about it.


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    #21
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Naos wrote: »
    Answer: because he is providing employment to a few hundred people.

    Sure bring the workhouses back, Seems a lot of richer fold in Ireland would love that. Wonder how many of them give the children's allowance back. :pac:


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    #22
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Naos wrote: »
    Answer: because he is providing employment to a few hundred people.

    Who, in your utopia, will be losing half of that to the government (the money to run the country needs to come from somewhere!). It will lead to a much stronger social stratification and make it much harder to move between those stratae. You can say goodbye to innovation and new business endevours from all but the richest, you can be sure of that.

    It's fortunate that they'll deign to employ the rest of us at least. By the way, a company doesn't employ people out of the goodness of its heart. He's making a good profit and being rewarded for that. Which is entirely fair.


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    #23
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Great, let them live on the streets and see who gives a toss. That is where they belong, not with a taxpayer provided roof over their heads.


    Taxpayers in this country are being taken for fools not by the rich but by the abundance of underclass scroungers who go on fleecing this country and nothing is done about it.

    Were would you get the money to provide a military style police force and jails to protect you and your stuff ? I highly doubt they would just lay down and die.


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    #24
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,544 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Were would you get the money to provide a military style police force and jails to protect you and your stuff ? I highly doubt they would just lay down and die.

    Ah, so you are scared of them and thus they should get the fruit of your labour. What a weak individual. F**k them out and provide the housing for non criminal elements.


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    #25
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Ah, so you are scared of them and thus they should get the fruit of your labour. What a weak individual. F**k them out and provide the housing for non criminal elements.

    Which is, given the comments I've seen on AH, particularly over the last few weeks, anyone not on the dole, I figure...


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    #26
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Ah, so you are scared of them and thus they should get the fruit of your labour. What a weak individual. F**k them out and provide the housing for non criminal elements.

    :pac:


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    #27
    bmm
    Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭bmm


    Not fair, no way!
    A new 70% tax rate for all income over 70k for a single person.
    Low income earners , under 20k should pay Zero tax and zero USC/bank bail out tax ! Income between 20k-70k should be taxed at 25%.

    Simples!


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    #28
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,544 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Samaris wrote: »
    Which is, given the comments I've seen on AH, particularly over the last few weeks, anyone not on the dole, I figure...

    No. Why should a family causing chaos in social housing get a roof when there are far more deserving cases sleeping rough as we speak?

    Why? That is not fair.


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    #29
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Samaris wrote: »
    Which is, given the comments I've seen on AH, particularly over the last few weeks, anyone not on the dole, I figure...

    I want to know where people get these free houses ? Can I apply for one ? I was told there is a huge lack of supply of housing and the lists were years long.


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    #30
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    No. Why should a family causing chaos in social housing get a roof when there are far more deserving cases sleeping rough as we speak?

    Why? That is not fair.

    No, it likely isn't. But I've seen a hell of a lot of comments in the last while on AH that pretty much equates dole to criminal, lazy, council-house, trouble-maker, scum, you name it. So I get suspicious when there's a broad-brush approach aimed at ensuring things are made even harder for "the poor", which is usually synonymous. If you intended no such inference, I apologise.
    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    I want to know where people get these free houses ? Can I apply for one ? I was told there is a huge lack of supply of housing and the lists were years long.

    O.o Dunno, why are you asking me? Ask someone who reckons they're easy to get and the scum are filling them up (this is not a dig at Kermit, given my above comment, this is a general dig at this thread and the ones like it!).


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    #31
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    No. Why should a family causing chaos in social housing get a roof when there are far more deserving cases sleeping rough as we speak?

    Why? That is not fair.

    Were would one get the money to police the higher rates of crime ? The money to replace damage to property people the list goes on. The Garda cannot deal with the current level of crime. It's great saying kick them out on the street, But the consequences have not been thought of.


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