Are Tax bands fair?

Dots1982

When you think about is it fair that people who earn more income pay a greater rate of tax..like really..when you think about it..

darkpagandeath

The more you have the more ability you have to avail of loopholes fancy accountants so there is a cut off. And no one pays 52% tax.

Kermit.de.frog

No it's not. Everyone should pay the same rate regardless of income. Lower income brackets receive more services thus they should pay.

jimgoose

No, absolutely not. It is one of the biggest disincentives to productivity and gumption in our society, and one of many reasons why the Insects will eventually win.

darkpagandeath

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No it's not. Everyone should pay the same rate regardless of income. Lower income brackets receive more services thus they should pay.

lol that would destroy the economy pretty fast just having 1 rate of tax.

Iwasfrozen

Hugely unfair and anti productivity. People don't seem to realize if you tax the job creators out of the country unemployment will rise.

jimgoose

darkpagandeath wrote: »

lol that would destroy the economy pretty fast just having 1 rate of tax.

I'd consider it more of a "readjusting".

Stheno

darkpagandeath wrote: »

The more you have the more ability you have to avail of loopholes fancy accountants so there is a cut off. And no one pays 52% tax.

I do, on at least some of my income regardless of my pension contributions etc, and it seriously pisses me off

I get notes every month on my ytd retention, and it currently sits at a rate I'd prefer not to think about.

When you get a bonus and retain less than half of it you have to wonder why you would want to work hard and do well, and then listen to whingers on here complain.

Something like less than 10% of PAYE workers in Ireland contribute about 90% of the total PAYE paid

So no the disparity is wrong, lower paid should pay more, even 1%

darkpagandeath

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Hugely unfair and anti productivity. People don't seem to realize if you tax the job creators out of the country unemployment will rise.

That's proven to be nonsense, reducing tax on the wealth creators does not create more jobs. it just allows for the higher transfer of wealth to the already wealthy. Obviously there is a cut off were not talking 90% tax and alike.

Don't you know the MNC are here for the talent :P

Kermit.de.frog

darkpagandeath wrote: »

lol that would destroy the economy pretty fast just having 1 rate of tax.

Why should the rich be punished for being rich? The poor use most services therefore fairness is they should pay for those services and not ask those who don't use them to pay for them.

darkpagandeath

Stheno wrote: »

I do, on at least some of my income regardless of my pension contributions etc, and it seriously pisses me off

I get notes every month on my ytd retention, and it currently sits at a rate I'd prefer not to think about.

When you get a bonus and retain less than half of it you have to wonder why you would want to work hard and do well, and then listen to whingers on here complain.

Something like less than 10% of PAYE workers in Ireland contribute about 90% of the total PAYE paid

So no the disparity is wrong, lower paid should pay more, even 1%

See the bold.....

darkpagandeath

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Why should the rich be punished for being rich? The poor use most services therefore fairness is they should pay for those services.

Who is punishing them ?

EoghanIRL

darkpagandeath wrote: »

The more you have the more ability you have to avail of loopholes fancy accountants so there is a cut off. And no one pays 52% tax.

I know people who do.
There are incomes where you are earning well but not well enough to write off tax and hire fancy accountants.
It's the biggest joke running if you ask me.
I couldn't imagine giving the government more than I actually make.
It's the high earners who are keeping the country running too. I'm surprised there are many left in Ireland to be honest.

jimgoose

darkpagandeath wrote: »

See the bold.....

Hands off my twine, Pinko. You know where the USSR is. Oh, wait... :):)

darkpagandeath

jimgoose wrote: »

Hands off my twine, Pinko. You know where the USSR is. Oh, wait... :):)

I have never voted left in my life. :pac:

Kermit.de.frog

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Who is punishing them ?

They are being told to pay for scumbags in council estates which the government refuses to punish for theft and anti social behaviour.

No wonder so many are emigrating. It's not the economy. It is that they refuse to live in a society where the feckless are rewarded and the law abiding workers are punished to pay for them.

Samaris

Yes, tax bands are fair and appropriate.

Yes, the rich pay more relative to their income. But they have too benefited from society in some way or another. Take the man that built up his business from scratch, who was able to avail of lower tax rates when he was struggling and was perhaps granted tax relief and grants. Now he's rich and employing a few hundred people. WHy shouldn't he pay relatively more to the state that his business is dependent on than someone who was in his shoes of twenty years or so ago?

Now imagine that same guy struggling to start up his business and being absolutely punished with tax. Those that went before him have benefited and are now paying relative peanuts compared to their actual income. How would a small company (and one that might be the next Apple or IBM) hope to compete?

All having a flat tax rate (and enough tax to actually fund the country at that) would do is ensure the rich get richer and the poor can never pull themselves up. If you want a strongly stratified society with no social movement between classes, go for it, have a flat tax rate and watch the divide grow.

darkpagandeath

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They are being told to pay for scumbags in council estates which the government refuses to punish for theft and anti social behaviour.

No wonder so many are emigrating. It's not the economy. It is that they refuse to live in a society where the feckless are rewarded and the law abiding workers are punished to pay for them.

They would still be scumbags in or out of a council house. And I would wager law abiding citizens would turn to crime if ones utopia of single tax rate came about.

Naos

Samaris wrote: »

Take the man that built up his business from scratch, who was able to avail of lower tax rates when he was struggling and was perhaps granted tax relief and grants. Now he's rich and employing a few hundred people. WHy shouldn't he pay relatively more to the state that his business is dependent on than someone who was in his shoes of twenty years or so ago?

Answer: because he is providing employment to a few hundred people.

Kermit.de.frog

darkpagandeath wrote: »

They would still be scumbags in or out of a council house.

Great, let them live on the streets and see who gives a toss. That is where they belong, not with a taxpayer provided roof over their heads.


Taxpayers in this country are being taken for fools not by the rich but by the abundance of underclass scroungers who go on fleecing this country and nothing is done about it.

darkpagandeath

Naos wrote: »

Answer: because he is providing employment to a few hundred people.

Sure bring the workhouses back, Seems a lot of richer fold in Ireland would love that. Wonder how many of them give the children's allowance back. :pac:

Samaris

Naos wrote: »

Answer: because he is providing employment to a few hundred people.

Who, in your utopia, will be losing half of that to the government (the money to run the country needs to come from somewhere!). It will lead to a much stronger social stratification and make it much harder to move between those stratae. You can say goodbye to innovation and new business endevours from all but the richest, you can be sure of that.

It's fortunate that they'll deign to employ the rest of us at least. By the way, a company doesn't employ people out of the goodness of its heart. He's making a good profit and being rewarded for that. Which is entirely fair.

darkpagandeath

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Great, let them live on the streets and see who gives a toss. That is where they belong, not with a taxpayer provided roof over their heads.


Taxpayers in this country are being taken for fools not by the rich but by the abundance of underclass scroungers who go on fleecing this country and nothing is done about it.

Were would you get the money to provide a military style police force and jails to protect you and your stuff ? I highly doubt they would just lay down and die.

Kermit.de.frog

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Were would you get the money to provide a military style police force and jails to protect you and your stuff ? I highly doubt they would just lay down and die.

Ah, so you are scared of them and thus they should get the fruit of your labour. What a weak individual. F**k them out and provide the housing for non criminal elements.

Samaris

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Ah, so you are scared of them and thus they should get the fruit of your labour. What a weak individual. F**k them out and provide the housing for non criminal elements.

Which is, given the comments I've seen on AH, particularly over the last few weeks, anyone not on the dole, I figure...

darkpagandeath

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Ah, so you are scared of them and thus they should get the fruit of your labour. What a weak individual. F**k them out and provide the housing for non criminal elements.

:pac:

bmm

Not fair, no way!
A new 70% tax rate for all income over 70k for a single person.
Low income earners , under 20k should pay Zero tax and zero USC/bank bail out tax ! Income between 20k-70k should be taxed at 25%.

Simples!

Kermit.de.frog

Samaris wrote: »

Which is, given the comments I've seen on AH, particularly over the last few weeks, anyone not on the dole, I figure...

No. Why should a family causing chaos in social housing get a roof when there are far more deserving cases sleeping rough as we speak?

Why? That is not fair.

darkpagandeath

Samaris wrote: »

Which is, given the comments I've seen on AH, particularly over the last few weeks, anyone not on the dole, I figure...

I want to know where people get these free houses ? Can I apply for one ? I was told there is a huge lack of supply of housing and the lists were years long.

Samaris

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No. Why should a family causing chaos in social housing get a roof when there are far more deserving cases sleeping rough as we speak?

Why? That is not fair.

No, it likely isn't. But I've seen a hell of a lot of comments in the last while on AH that pretty much equates dole to criminal, lazy, council-house, trouble-maker, scum, you name it. So I get suspicious when there's a broad-brush approach aimed at ensuring things are made even harder for "the poor", which is usually synonymous. If you intended no such inference, I apologise.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I want to know where people get these free houses ? Can I apply for one ? I was told there is a huge lack of supply of housing and the lists were years long.

O.o Dunno, why are you asking me? Ask someone who reckons they're easy to get and the scum are filling them up (this is not a dig at Kermit, given my above comment, this is a general dig at this thread and the ones like it!).

darkpagandeath

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No. Why should a family causing chaos in social housing get a roof when there are far more deserving cases sleeping rough as we speak?

Why? That is not fair.

Were would one get the money to police the higher rates of crime ? The money to replace damage to property people the list goes on. The Garda cannot deal with the current level of crime. It's great saying kick them out on the street, But the consequences have not been thought of.

Samaris

I do also want to know who decides who are "the deserving poor" and who are the ones who should be kicked out onto the streets. Personality test?

efb

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Great, let them live on the streets and see who gives a toss. That is where they belong, not with a taxpayer provided roof over their heads.


Taxpayers in this country are being taken for fools not by the rich but by the abundance of underclass scroungers who go on fleecing this country and nothing is done about it.

And nothing bad will come of that?

Dots1982

bmm wrote: »

Not fair, no way!
A new 70% tax rate for all income over 70k for a single person.
Low income earners , under 20k should pay Zero tax and zero USC/bank bail out tax ! Income between 20k-70k should be taxed at 25%.

Simples!

So if you earn 69k you should pay 17,250 tax a year and if you earn 71k you should pay 49700 tax a year?

efb

Dots1982 wrote: »

So if you earn 69k you should pay 17,250 tax a year and if you earn 71k you should pay 49700 tax a year?

That's not what it says

Dots1982

efb wrote: »

That's not what it says

What's wrong?

efb

70k would be 12,500
71k would be 13,200

Kermit.de.frog

efb wrote: »

And nothing bad will come of that?

You are afraid of them. Why?

Do you think a few nights on the streets might

a: turn them into rampant criminals (whilst starving, cold and wet)

or

b: teach a lesson to society that there are consequences to certain behaviour

efb

Income 0-20,000 nil
Income 20,000- 70,000 12,500
70,000-71.000 - 700

efb

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You are afraid of them. Why?

Do you think a few nights on the streets might

a: turn them into rampant criminals (whilst starving, cold and wet)

or

b: teach a lesson to society that their are consequences to certain behaviour

What has history taught us?

Kermit.de.frog

efb wrote: »

What has history taught us?

I am waiting for you to tell me why you are afraid of those that actually steal from you while making people's lives a misery.

darkpagandeath

efb wrote: »

What has history taught us?

Desperate people do desperate things :P Instead of being mugged at knife point you probably be knifed then mugged.

Dots1982

efb wrote: »

Income 0-20,000 nil
Income 20,000- 70,000 12,500
70,000-71.000 - 700

My misunderstanding, apologies

darkpagandeath

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I am waiting for you to tell me why you are afraid of those that actually steal from you.

I dunno they may have knives of weapons and unfortunately I'm not Steven seagal. And by the time the Garda get to the area if ever one could be dead. I highly doubt one would be saying this nonsense if it was there child being targeted.

c_man

Well around about what figure would the tax be if there was a 15% across the boards rate, versus what we have now? What figure would it need to be?

Kermit.de.frog

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I dunno they may have knives of weapons and unfortunately I'm not Steven seagal. And by the time the Garda get to the area if ever one could be dead. I highly doubt one would be saying this nonsense if it was there child being targeted.

So keep baby feeding them your money because you are afraid of them. I take a different approach. Manners can be put on much more easily than you think.

Not a NSA agent

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I dunno they may have knives of weapons and unfortunately I'm not Steven legals. And by the time the Garda get to the area if ever one could be dead. I highly doubt one would be saying this nonsense if it was there child being targeted.

Then you just have more gardai working to prevent crime. Sure it could end up costing more and be a pain in the ass but at least you'll teach them a lesson.

JonEBGud

One of the worst things the F F government did was to do away with "Rates".
Every council knew their budget.
They could budget for water, bins, street lighting, parks and gardens and house sizes etc.
Now we're paying on the double for all those services.

darkpagandeath

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So keep baby feeding them your money because you are afraid of them. I take a different approach. Manners can be put on much more easily than you think.

Who decides who needs manners put on them ?

efb

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So keep baby feeding them your money because you are afraid of them. I take a different approach. Manners can be put on much more easily than you think.

Do you live in Gotham?

efb

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Who decides who needs manners put on them ?

Kermit. Rich people aren't the problem, its the poor.