The Impossible Burger 2.0

drunkmonkey · 23-02-2019 1:55pm

Tractor beam

_Brian · 23-02-2019 2:01pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'd agree on the lab grown meat it's not something I'd like to try. But I've no issue with something like yeast been modified to achieve the same ends. Soy, Sunflower oil again I've no problem with these foods. I use them already when cooking.
It's great to say locally produced but I know if I go across to the supermarket now my strawberries will be from Egypt, the Oranges from Spain, the onions from the Netherlands etc. Were gone past the point of no return.

We have in peopelss minds.
With some research there are shops specialising in local produce, find them and use them.

We drive a bit farther to anceg shop on a farm, they grow in the fields surrounding the shop and anything in season is for sale grown locally.

Ireland will need imported food studs but lots we can grow at home in poly tunnels etc.

alps · 23-02-2019 2:13pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's great to say locally produced but I know if I go across to the supermarket now my strawberries will be from Egypt, the Oranges from Spain, the onions from the Netherlands etc. Were gone past the point of no return.

You need to change where you shop.

drunkmonkey · 23-02-2019 2:17pm

I know where they are but I don't really care where the onions come from not enough to do a 50km round trip for them. Back to access to all this fresh local produce unless you've a decent independent retailer where you live your not going to get them.
Not many local butcher's making their own either all from the factory and the same van dropping to them all. Cuts are terrible hardly any fat. Just bright and red as it's what I'd say a lot of people think are the best cuts.

_Brian · 23-02-2019 3:52pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I know where they are but I don't really care where the onions come from not enough to do a 50km round trip for them. Back to access to all this fresh local produce unless you've a decent independent retailer where you live your not going to get them.
Not many local butcher's making their own either all from the factory and the same van dropping to them all. Cuts are terrible hardly any fat. Just bright and red as it's what I'd say a lot of people think are the best cuts.

I can see how someone who doesn’t care about where their food comes from Could be sold on something like the fake burger. It’s just a symptom of the problem that people don’t value food food, it plays right into the hands of food conglomerates, cannon fodder for the share holders.

The old “you are what you eat” is still accurate. If people eat rubbish foods they can’t expect their body to be healthy, silk purse pigs ear and all that.

I’m saddened by the lack of interest in local foods we have in this country, very little food culture left as we rush off to be in love with American style fast foods, heck, some people love them without having even tried them.

Home cooking with quality raw ingredients produces stunning meals, it’s cheaper than processed foods, better for humans, better for the environment and sustainable. It supports local jobs, local economies, keeps our towns and villages alive. By cooking at home we’re educating the next generation and building our bonds with them too, passing down health and happiness to them.

Gawddawggonnit · 23-02-2019 3:56pm

_Brian wrote: »

I can see how someone who doesn’t care about where their food comes from Could be sold on something like the fake burger. It’s just a symptom of the problem that people don’t value food food, it plays right into the hands of food conglomerates, cannon fodder for the share holders.

The old “you are what you eat” is still accurate. If people eat rubbish foods they can’t expect their body to be healthy, silk purse pigs ear and all that.

I’m saddened by the lack of interest in local foods we have in this country, very little food culture left as we rush off to be in love with American style fast foods, heck, some people love them without having even tried them.

Home cooking with quality raw ingredients produces stunning meals, it’s cheaper than processed foods, better for humans, better for the environment and sustainable. It supports local jobs, local economies, keeps our towns and villages alive. By cooking at home we’re educating the next generation and building our bonds with them too, passing down health and happiness to them.

+1000!!

No more to be said.

drunkmonkey · 23-02-2019 4:29pm

All very noble but very far from reality for most people. The solution to the food crisis isn't kill more animals, a lot of the word doesn't even have access to the animals.
I 100% get what your saying and I said I've access to farm meat direct and the same with milk and lot of other foods, you don't have to convince a man who likes making his own butter what's the best thing for us.
This goes way beyond our little island though and were not going to get the rest of the world on board.

_Brian · 23-02-2019 4:34pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

All very noble but very far from reality for most people. The solution to the food crisis isn't kill more animals, a lot of the word doesn't even have access to the animals.
I 100% get what your saying and I said I've access to farm meat direct and the same with milk and lot of other foods, you don't have to convince a man who likes making his own butter what's the best thing for us.
This goes way beyond our little island though and were not going to get the rest of the world on board.

Actually if you read one of my last posts I’d support a process where meat consumption probably drops but the animals killed are farmed more extensively rather than intensively amd tue price reflects their actual full value as a true sustainable food source.
We’re all responsible for our own corner, pointing the finger over the hedge and saying they’re worse so we don’t have to bother is just silly talk.

emaherx · 23-02-2019 5:52pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I don't think there's any meat eater who would have any problems taking animals out of the loop if technology could provide an alternative which is better in every way.

Your problem is they way it's made and what's in it. Once those issues are put to bed you don't really have any excuse to keep eating meat.

Something has to give anyway were hardly going to be taking 200 heifers off in the back of the spaceship to the other side of the galaxy.

Think you might find most will still prefer to have real meat. A processed fake burger is a long long way from replacing cuts of meat. Plus there's plenty of evidence to suggest cutting down on livestock and increasing croplands will actually be detrimental to the planet especially when you consider the high inputs required to produce a fake burger.

If it's burgers you want, one cow will produce about 2,000 burgers. There is no way you will produce 2000 fake burgers with all the farming and industrial processes required with a lower carbon footprint than that of one cow and that's before you factor in transport costs of all the different ingredients from around the world and shipping of final product.

gozunda · 23-02-2019 6:35pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

All very noble but very far from reality for most people. The solution to the food crisis isn't kill more animals, a lot of the word doesn't even have access to the animals. I 100% get what your saying and I said I've access to farm meat direct and the same with milk and lot of other foods, you don't have to convince a man who likes making his own butter what's the best thing for us.
This goes way beyond our little island though and were not going to get the rest of the world on board.

The thing is that even the poorest parts of the world rely on animal agriculture. Ethiopia alone has a population of 53 million cattle and a similar number of other livestock. Regions like Tibet and the Andes also rely heavily on livestock for subsistence. It's a western myth that it is only the wealthiest countries where livestock farming is practised. The methods may vary - with animals being kept the way we did in the past where dairy products and wool heavily utilised and surplus cattle etc killed before the winter. Herding and transhumance are still important ways of life for many peoples.
We dont need to 'kill more or less animals' btw just consume more wisely, avoid highly processed and imported foodstuffs and waste and not support industrial-scale practices which benefit neither humans or the environment.

_Brian · 23-02-2019 7:09pm

gozunda wrote: »

The thing is that even the poorest parts of the world rely on animal agriculture. Ethiopia alone has a population of 53 million cattle and a similar number of other livestock. Regions like Tibet and the Andes also rely heavily on livestock for subsistence. It's a western myth that it is only the wealthiest countries where livestock farming is practised. The methods may vary - with animals being kept the way we did in the past where dairy products and wool heavily utilised and surplus cattle etc killed before the winter. Herding and transhumance are still important ways of life for many peoples.
We dont need to "kill more animals" btw just consume more wisely, avoid highly processed foodstuffs and waste and not support industrial-scale agricultural practices which benefit neither humans or the environment.

Was lucky to visit a small farm in China a few years ago. The guy was both proud but a bit embarrassed, chatting to him though interpreter about farming, he was delighted to chat when he knew I was frommanfarming background. I was telling him that Irish farms were near identical to his about 70 years ago, he was really interested, had tea with them and angood walk about the place. No spuds though.

Say my name · 24-02-2019 9:37pm

_Brian wrote: »

Was lucky to visit a small farm in China a few years ago. The guy was both proud but a bit embarrassed, chatting to him though interpreter about farming, he was delighted to chat when he knew I was frommanfarming background. I was telling him that Irish farms were near identical to his about 70 years ago, he was really interested, had tea with them and angood walk about the place. No spuds though.

Unfortunately I bet his son or daughter has been encouraged to abandon the farm and join the rat race and become part of the worldwide consumerism movement and buy or rent an apartment in the city while their parents put their life on a mortgage to pay for their education.

Xcellor · 24-02-2019 10:14pm

emaherx wrote: »

If it's burgers you want, one cow will produce about 2,000 burgers. There is no way you will produce 2000 fake burgers with all the farming and industrial processes required with a lower carbon footprint than that of one cow and that's before you factor in transport costs of all the different ingredients from around the world and shipping of final product.

How much does it take to raise a cow to the point it can produce 2000 burgers? We don't have enough grass to feed all year round. All those talking about meat being more natural never mention the fact animals are fed highly processed "hi gain nuts" and get supplemented too.

Sure these animal free burgers probably aren't produced as efficiently as they could be but at the moment it's less than 5% of the world who are veggies. As demand grows so will manufacturing processes and distribution chains.

_Brian · 24-02-2019 10:35pm

Say my name wrote: »

Unfortunately I bet his son or daughter has been encouraged to abandon the farm and join the rat race and become part of the worldwide consumerism movement and buy or rent an apartment in the city while their parents put their life on a mortgage to pay for their education.

Actually his some amd new wife were there working the land it was quite rural.

Gawddawggonnit · 24-02-2019 10:37pm

Say my name wrote: »

Unfortunately I bet his son or daughter has been encouraged to abandon the farm and join the rat race and become part of the worldwide consumerism movement and buy or rent an apartment in the city while their parents put their life on a mortgage to pay for their education.

Sweet Jesus.

Lay off the internet...

_Brian · 24-02-2019 10:41pm

Xcellor wrote: »

How much does it take to raise a cow to the point it can produce 2000 burgers? We don't have enough grass to feed all year round. All those talking about meat being more natural never mention the fact animals are fed highly processed "hi gain nuts" and get supplemented too.

Sure these animal free burgers probably aren't produced as efficiently as they could be but at the moment it's less than 5% of the world who are veggies. As demand grows so will manufacturing processes and distribution chains.

Many of the traditional breeds will finish off grass fed diets with little supplementation. With a little changes to stupid rules by processors animals could grow more naturally for another six months and negate need for meal being fed.

It’s the feed lot style farming that needs to be gotten rid of before it takes hold here like in the states. That isn’t the style of farming farmers want, but it’s what processors want.

Say my name · 24-02-2019 10:51pm

_Brian wrote: »

Actually his some amd new wife were there working the land it was quite rural.

Glad to hear.

All the documentaries you see about China lately go on about new generation farm abandonment and packing up for the cities and rural areas full of old people.
'Nearly' like here..

emaherx · 24-02-2019 11:02pm

Xcellor wrote: »

How much does it take to raise a cow to the point it can produce 2000 burgers? We don't have enough grass to feed all year round. All those talking about meat being more natural never mention the fact animals are fed highly processed "hi gain nuts" and get supplemented too.

Sure these animal free burgers probably aren't produced as efficiently as they could be but at the moment it's less than 5% of the world who are veggies. As demand grows so will manufacturing processes and distribution chains.

We don't? bit of a shortage last year, but my cattle were still fed grass all year round, might have been in the form of hay and silage but grass just the same. Don't know of any farms where cattle are not predominantly fed grass all year round.

mf240 · 24-02-2019 11:29pm

You can get vegan burgers now. I know they are hard to listen to but should we really be making burgers out of them.

Xcellor · 25-02-2019 12:08am

emaherx wrote: »

We don't? bit of a shortage last year, but my cattle were still fed grass all year round, might have been in the form of hay and silage but grass just the same. Don't know of any farms where cattle are not predominantly fed grass all year round.

Grass is the cheapest so will always be preferred but a few weather events and we hit crisis mode with fodder having to be imported. Just doesn't seem a very sustainable model to feed a growing population.

ppn · 25-02-2019 12:22am

Interesting article linked below about the Lancet report / EAT organisation aswell as GM crops! Also, I think the cash cow comments earlier in this thread relating to the so-called findings of said report pretty much promoting veganism are bang on the money.

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/beware-of-jargon-and-agendas-when-dealing-with-sound-science-37781897.html

gozunda · 25-02-2019 12:31am

Xcellor wrote: »

Grass is the cheapest so will always be preferred but a few weather events and we hit crisis mode with fodder having to be imported. Just doesn't seem a very sustainable model to feed a growing population.

You do know that the same weather events last year (ie drought) affected horticultural and arable operations. I suppose that makes them not "sustainable" as well? :rolleyes:

Do you intend that everyone should throw in the towel and stop farming because of periodic conditions such as drought, seriously?

The bull****e that is thrown out against animal agriculture really is hilarious. Not at you personally but sometimes it's like trying to explain things to Fr Dougal ...

emaherx · 25-02-2019 7:56am

Xcellor wrote: »

Grass is the cheapest so will always be preferred but a few weather events and we hit crisis mode with fodder having to be imported. Just doesn't seem a very sustainable model to feed a growing population.

Grass cheapest, preferred and still the most used even during the crisis weather events which effect the growing of all food that is grown outdoors, be that livestock or plants.

Infact the grass was probably the least affected crop by the adverse weather conditions. I'm sure as hell glad I wasn't growing spuds or any cereal crops last year!

drunkmonkey · 02-04-2019 3:52pm

Impossible burger on it's way to burger king, https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190401005239/en/BURGER-KING®-Restaurants-Test-Impossible™-WHOPPER®

Waffletraktor · 02-04-2019 5:55pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Impossible burger on it's way to burger king, https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190401005239/en/BURGER-KING®-Restaurants-Test-Impossible™-WHOPPER®;

Who chooses Bk over Maccer's?

emaherx · 02-04-2019 7:14pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Who chooses Bk over Maccer's?

I'd choose BK over Maccer's any day, but wouldn't consider either as being the real beef taste to aspire to, sort of reads as try the impossible burger it's indistinguishable from other bland processed burgers.

SuperTortoise · 02-04-2019 7:26pm

It's a PR gimmick for burger king, it's fashionable and trendy to be a vegan nowadays, if you are a vegan and believe in veganism then good for you i have no problems with that, it's just everyone knows someone that changes what they are into simply because some z list randomer on twatter twitted about it.

All the same stuff was said about the impossible burger 1.0, " you won't believe it's not a beef burger etc" until people started buying it and tasting it, was'nt long before it dropped down the list.

Suckler · 03-04-2019 7:07am

SuperTortoise wrote: »

It's a PR gimmick for burger king, it's fashionable and trendy to be a vegan nowadays, if you are a vegan and believe in veganism then good for you i have no problems with that, it's just everyone knows someone that changes what they are into simply because some z list randomer on twatter twitted about it.

I don't even think it's about being trendy/fashionable etc. I think these companies know how to piggy back on a fad and don't want to miss the boat. Gordon Ramsey has a vegan/vegetarian(?) Sunday roast he's pushing, Gregs in the UK has vegan/vegetarian rolls now etc. I don't believe for a minute these people are "seeing the light". It's a market they can't afford (financially or reputation-ally) to miss out.

_Brian · 03-04-2019 9:27am

emaherx wrote: »

I'd choose BK over Maccer's any day, but wouldn't consider either as being the real beef taste to aspire to, sort of reads as try the impossible burger it's indistinguishable from other bland processed burgers.

Yea.
“Our burger is just as muck as the others”

Haven’t eaten a mc Donald’s in maybe 15-20 years, ate a BK burger once probably 10 years ago. It’s just another addition to a line up of rubbish foods that really don’t have a place in the diet of any sober person.

Definitely just a pr stunt to bring in those who think they know everything yet know nothing, and judge the rest of us on that basis.

Xcellor · 03-04-2019 9:49am

What is the "real beef taste"?

I've had beef burgers from good cuts of meat and without the right seasoning+cooking technique it's just a bland piece of protein with some fat and trace nutrients.

You can apply the same seasoning+cooking techniques to plant based alternatives..

drunkmonkey · 03-04-2019 1:00pm

Think there comparing it to a proper medium rare burger with the juices flowing not the mc crap.

emaherx · 03-04-2019 1:15pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Think there comparing it to a proper medium rare burger with the juices flowing not the mc crap.

Not if it's indistinguishable from a Whopper.

drunkmonkey · 03-04-2019 1:19pm

emaherx wrote: »

Not if it's indispensable from a Whopper.

The impossible burger bleeds, it's a lot different from a whopper. Is or was there some law brought in a good few years ago here saying burgers had to be cooked to a certain level from takeaways.

Mooooo · 03-04-2019 1:20pm

Unless a burger is made just before cooking they would want to be cooked properly. The increased surface area exposed would make it a higher risk cooking rare. Steak etc is sealed so less risk

drunkmonkey · 03-04-2019 1:38pm

That would be a bit of a coop for the impossible burger, bloody but safe.

Say my name · 03-04-2019 1:47pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That would be a bit of a coop for the impossible burger, bloody but safe.

Prediction here from mise.

People will be getting cancer from this made up junk in the future.
If you want to eat meat. Eat meat.
If you want to eat vegetables. Eat vegetables.

If you want cancer. Eat made up junk.

emaherx · 03-04-2019 2:30pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That would be a bit of a coop for the impossible burger, bloody but safe.

Personally I like my beef to bleed, but not so keen on burgers bleeding. And fecked if I want my vegtables to bleed.

emaherx · 03-04-2019 2:39pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The impossible burger bleeds, it's a lot different from a whopper. Is or was there some law brought in a good few years ago here saying burgers had to be cooked to a certain level from takeaways.

A lot different from a Whopper?

MrMusician18 · 03-04-2019 2:47pm

Say my name wrote: »

Prediction here from mise.

People will be getting cancer from this made up junk in the future.
If you want to eat meat. Eat meat.
If you want to eat vegetables. Eat vegetables.

If you want cancer. Eat made up junk.

Almost every food has been linked to cancer these days.

The unfortunate truth is that something like 2/3 will suffer from cancer at some point as people live longer.

_Brian · 03-04-2019 3:20pm

emaherx wrote: »

A lot different from a Whopper?

All I can say is I hope it’s a big failure.
Not because I don’t want veganism.

But this is the toe in the door for large commercial entities to mass produce all foods and replace healthy properly farmed foods, be that vegetables or beef. Vegans are being conned into thinking this is a tool in their arsenal against farming animals when in fact it’s a start to 100% commercial conglomerates owning food production.

Only fools think this is a good thing.

drunkmonkey · 03-04-2019 4:04pm

Why does everyone think this is aimed at vegetarians, it's 100% aimed at meat eaters.

_Brian · 03-04-2019 4:12pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Why does everyone think this is aimed at vegetarians, it's 100% aimed at meat eaters.

But really it’s not.
Meat eaters aren’t out there actively looking for alternatives.

We all know that this is a commercial hyper processed product to appeal to vegans and vegetarians who want to feel like they are eating meat.

Let’s at least all be grown ups and acknowledge the basics of the situation.

drunkmonkey · 03-04-2019 4:25pm

They don't have an alternative that's the whole point of the burger to give them one. That's the basics of the situation.

emaherx · 03-04-2019 5:00pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Why does everyone think this is aimed at vegetarians, it's 100% aimed at meat eaters.

Em.....
Meat eaters eat meat and have no issue with doing so. Why would they want an even more overprocessed substandard product that is most likely worse for them with a larger environmental impact (despite the claims to the contrary by the manufacturers)

emaherx · 03-04-2019 5:03pm

drunkmonkey wrote:

They don't have an alternative that's the whole point of the burger to give them one. That's the basics of the situation.

They do have an alternative to this crap, it's called meat and if they want to reduce their meat intake there are already lots of delicious and healthy foods not made of meat.

_Brian · 03-04-2019 6:56pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They don't have an alternative that's the whole point of the burger to give them one. That's the basics of the situation.

No..
They specificsally say they want to replace all meat by 2035, the CEO uses phrases like "crush the meat industry"

Lets not dolly this up as anything but a V & V push against animal farming and meat consumption.. Lets not pretend its designed as a product to co-exist along with traditionally farmed beef... Lets not be fools and tell untruths about the situation..

I'm happy if we call it as it is and let the public know what the addenda behind the product is.. But extremist veganism is well used to peddling propaganda and untruths to get their point across to their target audiences who are emotionally vulnerable people looking for a cause to rally behind giving themselves some sense of identity and mission in life, this is why so many teens fall for the extremist vitriol but soon after as they mature realise its real truth. Thats why we see such high signup and abandonment rates in veganism.. They join up their cult, shout at farmers, occupy farmyards, abuse people online, but the majority grow out of this extremist phase and move on with their life.. leaving ordinary vegans tarnished by their fascist legacy of intolerance and abuse.

gozunda · 03-04-2019 7:19pm

Xcellor wrote: »

What is the "real beef taste"?

I've had beef burgers from good cuts of meat and without the right seasoning+cooking technique it's just a bland piece of protein with some fat and trace nutrients*.

You can apply the same seasoning+cooking techniques to plant based alternatives..

* Really - as opposed to this ****e?

Impossible burger ingredients

Water, Soy Protein Concentrate, Coconut Oil, Sunflower Oil, Natural Flavors, 2% or less of: Potato Protein, Methylcellulose, Yeast Extract, Cultured Dextrose, Food Starch Modified, Soy Leghemoglobin, Salt, Soy Protein Isolate, Mixed Tocopherols (Vitamin E), Zinc Gluconate, Thiamine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B1), Sodium Ascorbate (Vitamin C), Niacin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin B12

Lol
I'd expect little more from the usual preachings

Xcellor · 03-04-2019 7:47pm

gozunda wrote: »

* Really - as opposed to this ****e?

Impossible burger ingredients

Lol
I'd expect little more from the usual preachings

What in particular is ****e?

_Brian · 03-04-2019 8:49pm

Xcellor wrote: »

What in particular is ****e?

soy leghemoglobin

It’s a sort of gmo product grown with yeast in great vats feeding the yeast with sugars.

It’s a brand new ingredient invented just for this product.

The resultant product isn’t 100% pure but instead ~25% of the product is made up of unwanted and often completely unidentifiable proteins which could have any number of long term effects on humans.

The product got FDA approval eventually after exhaustive 28 day testing on rats where hundreds of rats were killed, it’s likely lobbying and money rather than science got thin ingredient passed as is very much the American way of business and approvals.

So this highly overprocessed gmo vat grown ingredient with at best suspect safety levels is the critical ingredient in this silly product.

How Any self respecting Vegan can be behind this product with the amount of animal testing is beyond me.

Xcellor · 03-04-2019 9:43pm

_Brian wrote: »

soy leghemoglobin

It’s a sort of gmo product grown with yeast in great vats feeding the yeast with sugars.

It’s a brand new ingredient invented just for this product.

The resultant product isn’t 100% pure but instead ~25% of the product is made up of unwanted and often completely unidentifiable proteins which could have any number of long term effects on humans.

The product got FDA approval eventually after exhaustive 28 day testing on rats where hundreds of rats were killed, it’s likely lobbying and money rather than science got thin ingredient passed as is very much the American way of business and approvals.

So this highly overprocessed gmo vat grown ingredient with at best suspect safety levels is the critical ingredient in this silly product.

How Any self respecting Vegan can be behind this product with the amount of animal testing is beyond me.

Yeah I suppose there is a chance the ingredients could be harmful to humans however there are foods people eat daily that contribute to disease formation. Obesity and type 2 diabetes along with heart disease is killing thousands of people every year and it's not from eating impossible burgers.

I believe PETA have come out against impossible burger due to animal testing. Does the vision impossible burger has justify the means? Did they need to go so far to create a burger that was so close to meat? If it's aimed at meat eaters who are not concerned about ethics which it appears to be then maybe from the companies viewpoint it doesn't matter?

The Impossible Burger 2.0

Comments