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General Ryanair discusion

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    #512
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    Geuze wrote: »
    I hope that I'm not off-topic, but what is the chance of the FR route from NOC to CGN being kept on in summer 2020?

    Based on the fares I saw during July 2019, as low as 30 euro one-way, I don't think this service will run next year??
    My experience of NOC to Hahn was that not only were the fares low but the planes were half-empty. It didn't last long and I knew that the route couldn't possibly continue so I made good use of it while it was available.
    You grow used to the hustle and bustle of a full Ryanair flight and when you are an empty one it just feels weird.
    The German €7.46 departure tax doesn't help much either.


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    #513
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    Lapmo_Dancer wrote: »
    You are only quoting the year 1 basic pay of a 20 year pay scale and not including duty pay whereas for Ryanair you give a top of scale TRE’s salary including flight pay, loyalty bonus etc. Why not compare like with like?

    Comparing like with like, Ryanair’s gross basic is €83,196. It is a 1 year pay scale, so a year 20 Ryanair Capt’s gross basic will also be €83,196 whereas a year 20 Eurowings Capt (on a poorer non German contract) will have a guaranteed basic salary of €139,288 plus significant duty pay (guaranteed 75 duty hours irrespective of hours flown).

    Why not quote German contracts, which I used in my previous post as this is where Eurowings have the vast majority of their bases and operations?

    Do Ryanair supplement the salaries of their German pilots for all the reasons you yourself outlined?

    I’m not sure why you then quote FO salaries as it just highlights how poor Ryanair’s are.

    Again, the salaries quoted on Eurowing’s website are entry level, year 1 salaries, and will increase significantly each year for the pilot. A top of scale FO in Germany is on a basic of €90,095. When you add duty pay this is almost as much as a max hour Ryanair Captain will take home. For balance, a non-German base top of scale FO is €70,187.

    Ryanair basic FO pay:
    With less than 500 hours: €21k

    More than 500 hours but less than 1500 hours: €23k

    More than 1500 hours: €39k
    Lapmo_Dancer, how can you tally this report with your claims with regard to how much better eurowings is than Ryanair.
    https://www.spiegel.de/lebenundlernen/job/pilot-bei-eurowings-so-sieht-der-joballtag-aus-a-1115448.html

    Imagine having to take 5 years to get through a 2 year training program, having debts of 60k and faced with uncertain upgrade paths.

    He says he earns 2500 after tax. That doesn't go far, not in Portmarnock, much less Munich or Vienna.

    Have you been misled as to how great Eurowings is? If you work in Eurowings then let us know because then your comments would add greater weight than what I've divined from just a little bit of googling on the topic and my experience of the German labour market.

    I think the first line of the report is very apt and frames the report well.
    Zwischen Wunsch und Wirklichkeit ist in vielen Berufen jede Menge Platz.
    Between wish and reality is much space.


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    #514
    Lapmo_Dancer
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭Lapmo_Dancer


    Is this a discussion on German tax rates or on basic pay scales?

    Does Ryanair not have 10+ German bases? Are the lower basic salaries on offer at their German bases compared to Eurowings, supplemented to counter the high tax/high cost of living that you are talking about?

    We can all google disgruntled employees:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/20/ryanair-treat-pilots-better-crisis-long-haul

    I do not work for Eurowings and know very little about it. The pay scales and variable pay on offer at Eurowings and all other European operators is available online for people to compare and contrast to what Ryanair offers.

    I have no idea what IALPA’s strategy is, but I regularly see Mr O’Leary in the media comparing the size and profitability of Ryanair to the other larger airlines in Europe such as Lufthansa, KLM-Air France and IAG.

    Most Ryanair pilots would love to have debts of only €60K.


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    #515
    jojofizzio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,910 ✭✭✭jojofizzio


    Anyone know how much notice Ryanair have to give it’s passengers if the flights are being cancelled?
    I’ve heard nothing about my flight next Thursday -have they even decided yet which flights they’ll cancel in the event the strike isn’t called off?


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    #516
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    @jojofizzio; If the Union had given more than two weeks notice then under EU261 regulations Ryanair could react swiftly and would have been able to cancel flights without compensation and just given reimbursement. By only giving 7 days notice and timing their strike to coincide with the UK strike Ryanair have been given limited room to manoeuvre to minimize impact to the general public and need time to figure out which pilots are available to fly on the day before they can cancel flights or adjust their timetables to fit more flights in while cancelling the fewest number of flights. They probably haven't decided which flights to cancel yet until Pilots not participating in industrial action and not already rostered to work that day confirm their availability

    General rule of thumb is that if you are on a flight over 1500km in length they are unlikely to cancel or delay it, if you are on a flight to a holiday destination they are unlikely to cancel it, if you are on a flight to a city destination which is served multiple times a day they might cancel one flight on that route and accommodate those unlucky enough to be on that flight on other flights on that day.
    If flying from Dublin you might as well go through security check on the day as there are plenty of amenities past the security check. In smaller airports you're probably better off not passing through security until a time for your flight is shown and it is shown as being on time. If the flight is delayed you will have more opportunity to spend your €5 voucher given after a 2 hour delay in the main airport rather than at the gate and Customer Service staff can't avoid you so easily.
    I hope that helps.


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    #517
    Diagonalley
    Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Diagonalley


    If other airlines pay more then why not apply for a job there. This is what us menials who pay their wages by using their low cost airline have to do. We all know the terms and conditions when we accept a job, and if we want more pay and it’s not forthcoming then we must move on - not cause extreme distress to thousands of hard working, low paid, citizens who have been saving hard and looking forward to that once a year hard earned break. It is not reasonable to make serious demands in your terms of employment every single year, and throw your toys out of the pram every time you don’t get what you asked for. If RyanAir is so awful then move on because, for us low paid workers, it is our only chance to get away from the rain. We may all like to put RyanAir down all the time but we all still book their flights as they are usually the only affordable option and, in my experience, the most reliable in getting the flight there on time.


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    #518
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    Ryanair have released an update regarding the strikes:
    https://twitter.com/Ryanair/status/1162635423232905217
    skip past the first minute of the video for actual information on what to do.
    Basically, if you aren't contacted by mail and SMS then assume that your flight will fly to schedule.
    If you do get a mail and SMS then I'd advise you to contact Ryanair Customer Services as quickly as possible as you'll be competing with others to get seats on other planes to fly to the same location on the same day.


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    #519
    sporina
    Registered Users Posts: 6,780 ✭✭✭sporina


    if my flight is cancelled with they reroute with another airline or just with ryanair?


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    #520
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    It is hypothetical but I'll say that if you can negotiate with Ryanair to enrich another airline due to this strike then you deserve a job in the NTMA reducing Ireland's debt burden.


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    #521
    billy few mates
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    sporina wrote: »
    if my flight is cancelled with they reroute with another airline or just with ryanair?

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/air_travel/compensation_for_overbooked_and_delayed_flights.html


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    #522
    billie1b
    Registered Users Posts: 3,806 ✭✭✭billie1b


    https://twitter.com/Ryanair/status/1162635423232905217

    More bull**** from Chief tongue is always brown Lapdog, it’d be amazing if they actually told the truth for once instead of being a bunch of sadistic mythomainias


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    #523
    sporina
    Registered Users Posts: 6,780 ✭✭✭sporina


    rivegauche wrote: »
    It is hypothetical but I'll say that if you can negotiate with Ryanair to enrich another airline due to this strike then you deserve a job in the NTMA reducing Ireland's debt burden.

    billy few mates wrote: »
    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/air_travel/compensation_for_overbooked_and_delayed_flights.html

    there is still no specific information on that site with regards to how they might reroute you..

    but i got it out of RA on live chat (eventually) - they do not use other airlines..

    @rivegauche - you might be on to something there lol. at least i know whats what


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    #524
    billy few mates
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    sporina wrote: »
    there is still no specific information on that site with regards to how they might reroute you..

    but i got it out of RA on live chat (eventually) - they do not use other airlines..

    @rivegauche - you might be on to something there lol. at least i know whats what

    If you flight is cancelled It says you are entitled to...
    re-routing to your final destination at the earliest opportunity or,
    re-routing at a later date at your convenience under comparable transport conditions, subject to the availability of seats.

    If there's another flight with a different operator leaving before the alternative flight they're offering you then you should be offered this flight, it's not up to them to decide what flight is at earliest opportunity..


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    #525
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    billy few mates wrote: »
    it's not up to them to decide what flight is at earliest opportunity..

    Haha good one!


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    #526
    billy few mates
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    Locker10a wrote: »
    Haha good one!

    On the flight that I had cancelled recently the operator put all the passengers on flights with several different carriers, I accepted a re-routing on LH through Frankfurt which got me home about eight hours later.
    I met another guy who was also on my cancelled flight, they were trying to put him on a much later flight through somewhere else where he would have missed something he had on that night. He spotted a Ryanair flight which was going direct to Dublin and would only have delayed him by about four hours, he requested to be put on that flight and the airline refused first saying they had no seats and then saying they had no agreement with Ryanair when the guy showed him that there were still seats available online.
    He told them that none of the options they were offering suited his arrangements so he bought the Ryanair ticket himself and told them he will claim it back from them, through the courts if necessary.


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    #527
    sporina
    Registered Users Posts: 6,780 ✭✭✭sporina


    billy few mates wrote: »
    If you flight is cancelled It says you are entitled to...
    re-routing to your final destination at the earliest opportunity or,
    re-routing at a later date at your convenience under comparable transport conditions, subject to the availability of seats.

    If there's another flight with a different operator leaving before the alternative flight they're offering you then you should be offered this flight, it's not up to them to decide what flight is at earliest opportunity..

    i have it in black and white from RA - they only offer RA flights as an alternative - not other airlines.


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    #528
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    International agreements and laws trump Ryanairs black and white T&Cs!!! But you'd have to fight them for it and unfortunately, its often just not worth the hassle.


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    #529
    billy few mates
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    sporina wrote: »
    i have it in black and white from RA - they only offer RA flights as an alternative - not other airlines.

    It's not up to RA (or any other airline) to decide what is meant by earliest opportunity, they might not be able to re-route you on one of their flights for several days but there might be an Aer Lingus flight departing that evening, just because they won't put you on it doesn't mean you can't buy the ticket yourself and claim it back under your EU261 entitlements.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0816/1069233-airline-strikes-looming-what-are-your-rights/


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    #530
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    billy few mates wrote: »
    It's not up to RA (or any other airline) to decide what is meant by earliest opportunity, they might not be able to re-route you on one of their flights for several days but there might be an Aer Lingus flight departing that evening, just because they won't put you on it doesn't mean you can't buy the ticket yourself and claim it back under your EU261 entitlements.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0816/1069233-airline-strikes-looming-what-are-your-rights/

    I’d say you’ll be fighting hard with Ryanair to get that! Good luck, hope you’ve a lot of time and patience


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    #531
    billy few mates
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    Locker10a wrote: »
    I’d say you’ll be fighting hard with Ryanair to get that! Good luck, hope you’ve a lot of time and patience

    Not me, I don't use Ryanair for the reasons above, but the legislation is the same for all airlines. If I did find myself in this situation I'd be quite happy to let it play all the way to the small claims court and let the legal eagles decide...


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    #532
    sporina
    Registered Users Posts: 6,780 ✭✭✭sporina


    billy few mates wrote: »
    It's not up to RA (or any other airline) to decide what is meant by earliest opportunity, they might not be able to re-route you on one of their flights for several days but there might be an Aer Lingus flight departing that evening, just because they won't put you on it doesn't mean you can't buy the ticket yourself and claim it back under your EU261 entitlements.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0816/1069233-airline-strikes-looming-what-are-your-rights/

    nah if the strike goes ahead i will just book another flight

    don't want the stress of it all and have to be in london on fri


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    #533
    The Witches Cat
    Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭The Witches Cat


    Are all these pilots who are striking really on €170,000 a year? According to Ryanair ad in yesterday's paper they are looking for 101% pay increase. Any pilots involved in strike clear this up. Is what Ryanair saying true??
    Thanks


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    #534
    1123heavy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭1123heavy


    The Witches Cat wrote: »
    Are all these pilots who are striking really on €170,000 a year? According to Ryanair ad in yesterday's paper they are looking for 101% pay increase. Any pilots involved in strike clear this up. Is what Ryanair saying true??
    Thanks

    No it's not true. Heaven knows what magic maths they did to come to their 170k figure. Must be Ray Conway's salary they're referring to.

    https://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Ryanair

    Accurate pay scales can be found on the pjn site.

    This strike isn't all to do with pay though. The level of fear and punishment has gotten too much for many pilots and they want change is what i understand from speaking to them. Something has to give.

    I still don't know why the regulators haven't thrown the book at them for their horrific attitude to fatigue. Call fatigued and refuse discretion and you are dragged into hq within 24hrs for a nasty encounter with their 'management'. Do it again and you are liable to be sacked. Refuse an outbound sector because it's clear beyond doubt the return will bring you into discretion, feeling so tired already to even perform the outbound at full strength ... same treatment again. It flies in the face of the very word 'safety' and they've been allowed get away with this for far too long.


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    #535
    Mike3549
    Registered Users Posts: 930 ✭✭✭Mike3549


    Locker10a wrote: »
    billy few mates wrote: »
    It's not up to RA (or any other airline) to decide what is meant by earliest opportunity, they might not be able to re-route you on one of their flights for several days but there might be an Aer Lingus flight departing that evening, just because they won't put you on it doesn't mean you can't buy the ticket yourself and claim it back under your EU261 entitlements.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0816/1069233-airline-strikes-looming-what-are-your-rights/

    I’d say you’ll be fighting hard with Ryanair to get that! Good luck, hope you’ve a lot of time and patience

    I have a feeling you havent heard about small claim court.
    It will cost you only €35. Best part that somebody from ra legal team has to show up in court and its cheaper for them just to pay a compensation. Happened to me and my neighbour after i told him about it


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    #536
    billy few mates
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    Mike3549 wrote: »
    I have a feeling you havent heard about small claim court.
    It will cost you only €35. Best part that somebody from ra legal team has to show up in court and its cheaper for them just to pay a compensation. Happened to me and my neighbour after i told him about it

    If you read back through this thread you'll see that I mentioned the SCC on more than one occasion...


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    #537
    ZX7R
    Registered Users Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    Having a big argument here in Poland , when does the poilet strike start ,00:00 of the 22nd or 00:00 of the 21st if you understand what I mean, plenty of beer involved.
    Thing that worries me is my son is special needs


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    #538
    View Profile
    Registered Users Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭View Profile


    ZX7R wrote: »
    Having a big argument here in Poland , when does the poilet strike start ,00:00 of the 22nd or 00:00 of the 21st if you understand what I mean, plenty of beer involved.
    Thing that worries me is my son is special needs

    All day Thursday and Friday.


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    #539
    billie1b
    Registered Users Posts: 3,806 ✭✭✭billie1b


    ZX7R wrote: »
    Having a big argument here in Poland , when does the poilet strike start ,00:00 of the 22nd or 00:00 of the 21st if you understand what I mean, plenty of beer involved.
    Thing that worries me is my son is special needs

    00:01 on Thursday the 22nd until 23:59 Friday the 23rd


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    #540
    defrule
    Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭defrule


    I'm flying to Dublin on Thursday evening, what am I suppose to do?


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    #541
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    defrule wrote: »
    I'm flying to Dublin on Thursday evening, what am I suppose to do?
    do you know where you are flying from? meet us halfway ;)


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