Ireland is a pretend football country

partyguinness · 20-01-2021 12:17pm

I grew up by local GAA Taliban types who did everything in their power to hobble to start up of the local soccer club. Even making the U12s choose between GAA and playing soccer...no issue playing both. They wouldnt be caught dead near a LOI game.

"No foreign sports...rabblle rabble"

You couldn't make this up but at the same time the same fcukers were over in Old Trafford and Anfield several times a year.

cms88 · 20-01-2021 1:45pm

partyguinness wrote: »

I grew up by local GAA Taliban types who did everything in their power to hobble to start up of the local soccer club. Even making the U12s choose between GAA and playing soccer...no issue playing both. They wouldnt be caught dead near a LOI game.

"No foreign sports...rabblle rabble"

You couldn't make this up but at the same time the same fcukers were over in Old Trafford and Anfield several times a year.

Well published that this also happens the other way around. Kilkenny/Carlow LOI team had told players they had to pick between the two

IAMAMORON · 20-01-2021 1:49pm

You would want to hear what proper English soccer fans think about the cosy Irish brigade of Liverpool and Man U junckies. They think they are a laughing stock.

You average Walsall or QPR fan at least can identify with their team. They can wear their club jersey ( or tie ) with a bit of parochial pride. That is their team, they actually feel the pain when they get thumped 3 nil away to Notts County and they have to sit on the bus skulling warm cans of Tennants all the way home.

They think Irish lads singing chants from cities which they might visit twice a year are a joke, they reckon it is a bit odd.

I can understand why Chelsea are so popular in the Ivory Coast - Didier Drogba. But it a long time since Kevin Moran, Ronnie Whelan or Frank Stapleton were doing their stuff - with respect to Mark Lawrenson and Kevin Doyle.

In Italy they won't cap you unless you are playing domestically - look it up.

doublejobbing 2 · 20-01-2021 1:53pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

The amount of Irish people you see wearing jerseys heading out to the pub is heartbreaking and I don't just mean soccer ones and I am talking about days when there was no match on.

I can't think of another country that does it

Is it really still a thing though? Maybe it is down the country, but wearing a jersey as casual wear around the streets or to the pub on a non match day seems to have died out in Dublin in the last decade.

Maybe to add to that, maybe teenagers just aren't as enamored with the PL as their dads were. After all a current 13 to 18 year old will have grown up in an era where the old big 2 of Liverpool and Utd have been consistent comedy clubs for 8 to 10 years of their lives.

The crowds at LOI in Dublin are generally very youthful which can only be a good thing.

Mad_maxx · 20-01-2021 2:00pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Never thought of that.

So you can support a team in a different country, Liverpool or Watford or whatever.

But not a team 20 miles down the road.

Having said that:
A lot of Leinster people supported Munster in the rugby
In the UK, a lot of London people support Man U (supposedly).

Its notable that many of the LOIs best regional teams historically are in large towns in weak GAA counties. Longford, Sligo, Dundalk, Bray, Athlone.

Another notable is Monaghan Town - I wonder is its demise related to that county's enormous improvement in the GAA.

were Monaghan Town ever that strong in soccer ?

Monaghan is an extremely hardcore republican County , probably the leading republican county , this might leave it more hostile to soccer

partyguinness · 20-01-2021 2:03pm

I live in England and I can go to a game every weekend if I want (when Covid is not around)- from PL down to non league and everything in between all within a 45 min drive

I don't bother anymore because :-

1. I am not really that interested anymore
2. The football is ****e
3. It is not worth the expense
4. I don't like freezing my ass off sititng in the stand.

A few years back I was at Leicester V ManU. I am not a fan of either just went along to kill a few hours on a Sunday. Anyway, there was this utter gob****e sitting next to me (by coincidence) hurling abuse at Wayne Rooney.

This guy was well into his 50s....the reason I just sat there cringing was because he was Irish...he had driven over in the ferry that morning all the way from Roscommon. I was thinking "You sad little man." He just hurled all sorts of crap about Rooney and apparently Rooney has cousins in Roscommon. All sorts of references to Travellers etc. He was the only one in a quiet section of the stand shouting his turnip munching mouth off.

doublejobbing 2 · 20-01-2021 2:03pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Even more bizarre than Irish people obsessing over English soccer teams is Irish people obsessing over the perceived politics of the founders and/or owners and/or followers of English soccer teams.

Doesn't quite rank as high as people trying to somehow claim you can follow Utd/ Liverpool in a WC but despise England in a tournament because Liverpool and Utd aren't "real England".:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Last world cup I knew plenty of LOI fans, myself included, who gave England at least tacit backing. It was only a bit of craic but most of us thought it was more sensible than hoping Trent Alexander Arnold is at fault for a 7-0 demolition, then going home to sleep in your Liverpool duvet.

In the bar at Dalyer at half time the crowds would be giving it socks as World In Motion was played, shouting the Eng- er- land bit :pac: All tongue in cheek, all to wind up the holier than thou Premier League fan who would think it was high treason (probably the type of lad who starts watching Ireland matches towards the business end/ play off bits of the qualifiers, then is off to France with hi inflatable shamrock like his whole life has led up to this)

In saying all of that, it does pre date Declan Rice defecting and it was in the days when it looked like Jack Grealish might never be capped, so you might not see it happen again :pac: At least while they're still playing.

weldoninhio · 20-01-2021 2:03pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You would want to hear what proper English soccer fans think about the cosy Irish brigade of Liverpool and Man U junckies. They think they are a laughing stock.

You average Walsall or QPR fan at least can identify with their team. They can wear their club jersey ( or tie ) with a bit of parochial pride. That is their team, they actually feel the pain when they get thumped 3 nil away to Notts County and they have to sit on the bus skulling warm cans of Tennants all the way home.

They think Irish lads singing chants from cities which they might visit twice a year are a joke, they reckon it is a bit odd.

I can understand why Chelsea are so popular in the Ivory Coast - Didier Drogba. But it a long time since Kevin Moran, Ronnie Whelan or Frank Stapleton were doing their stuff - with respect to Mark Lawrenson and Kevin Doyle.

In Italy they won't cap you unless you are playing domestically - look it up.

Jorginhio doesn’t play in Italy, Kean doesn’t play in Italy. Veratti is another.

Took about 2 minutes to blow that nonsense out of the water.

Omackeral · 20-01-2021 2:09pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Jorginhio doesn’t play in Italy, Kean doesn’t play in Italy. Veratti is another.

Took about 2 minutes to blow that nonsense out of the water.

Initially won’t cap you unless you play in Italy was what I’d take from that statement. It’s news to me but Kean and Jorginho did start off in Italy so maybe?

IAMAMORON · 20-01-2021 2:10pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Jorginhio doesn’t play in Italy, Kean doesn’t play in Italy. Veratti is another.

Took about 2 minutes to blow that nonsense out of the water.

They don't get picked and fans laugh at them for turning their backs on their domestic league.

Playing in Serie A is Gladiator stuff - it is a great honour.

partyguinness · 20-01-2021 2:12pm

I do find it embarrassing to visit home at say, Christmas and you have darts from London or PL football all over the TV in the pub. My sisters are then at home watching Coronation Street or some crap like that while reading OK.

A part of me dies everytime.

IAMAMORON · 20-01-2021 2:14pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Jorginhio doesn’t play in Italy, Kean doesn’t play in Italy. Veratti is another.

Took about 2 minutes to blow that nonsense out of the water.

Omackeral wrote: »

Initially won’t cap you unless you play in Italy was what I’d take from that statement. It’s news to me but Kean and Jorginho did start off in Italy so maybe?

It is highly likely there are examples of modern players not abiding by an unwritten rule.

But by and large Italian nationals are expected to play in Serie A.

How often do you see the leading scorer in Serie A getting his game upfront for the national team.

irishguitarlad · 20-01-2021 2:15pm

Was getting the train to Cork today and in Mallow there was a fella working there with a Chelsea hat on. He started talking to a fella saying "we" and all this shíte and saying that I hope a blue team wins the league anyway. It's obviously not the whole reason why football is fúcked in this country but he and people like him are definitely part of the problem. If I was living in Ireland I'd probably go with Bohs and see a few games as down in Kerry there's no team and I couldn't support Cork city:-p

doublejobbing 2 · 20-01-2021 2:17pm

partyguinness wrote: »

This guy was well into his 50s....the reason I just sat there cringing was because he was Irish...he had driven over in the ferry that morning all the way from Roscommon. I was thinking "You sad little man." He just hurled all sorts of crap about Rooney and apparently Rooney has cousins in Roscommon. All sorts of references to Travellers etc. He was the only one in a quiet section of the stand shouting his turnip munching mouth off.

I'm in two minds about this.

Is he a gobdaw for being a Roscommon man obsessed with Leicester?

Yes.

But the bigger bores are the people in the quiet stand. They should be getting stuck in with the chants and the abuse.

For all the best fans in the world lark Landsdowne can be a feckin morgue at times apart from behind the home end goal. We were shamed at O'Neills last match vs N.I, their fans outroared ours and though it was a 0 0 draw the north were buoyed by the fans, they played us off the park. There's sections up above in Landsdowne where people will give you dirty looks if you shout and try get a chant going. Unfortunately the place can really struggle to get going unless the likes of Germany are in town.

partyguinness · 20-01-2021 2:18pm

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Was getting the train to Cork today and in Mallow there was a fella working there with a Chelsea hat on. He started talking to a fella saying "we" and all this shíte and saying that I hope a blue team wins the league anyway. It's obviously not the whole reason why football is fúcked in this country but he's and people like him are definitely part of the problem. If I was living in Ireland I'd probably go with Bohs and see a few games as down in Kerry there's no team and I couldn't support Cork city:-p

I used to live near Turner's Cross and went to Cork City games at least once a month. When I lived in Inchicore I went to St Pats regularly.

A buddy of mine then just rubbishes and insults LOI but yet is off over to Old Trafford a few times a season. Makes my blood boil.

Omackeral · 20-01-2021 2:18pm

Whatever about following British teams. An Irish man following Chelsea is just mad to me.

Did you smash it · 20-01-2021 2:21pm

cms88 wrote: »

This again :rolleyes:

partyguinness wrote: »

A buddy of mine then just rubbishes and insults LOI but yet is off over to Old Trafford a few times a season. Makes my blood boil.

It’s his money. He’s free to spend it as he wishes.

However if he ever tried to criticize the national team of Ireland I would give him a flea in his ear about what has he done to support Irish football so what right has he to complain. Presuming he doesn’t attend national team games.

partyguinness · 20-01-2021 2:21pm

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

But the bigger bores are the people in the quiet stand. They should be getting stuck in with the chants and the abuse.

For all the best fans in the world lark Landsdowne can be a feckin morgue at times apart from behind the home end goal. We were shamed at O'Neills last match vs N.I, their fans outroared ours and though it was a 0 0 draw the north were buoyed by the fans, they played us off the park. There's sections up above in Landsdowne where people will give you dirty looks if you shout and try get a chant going. Unfortunately the place can really struggle to get going unless the likes of Germany are in town.

I will happily admit I will go and sit there like a boring old fart. Leave the chanting to the lads who want to chant. TBH I have been among singing/roaring fans and I have no idea how they even follow the game- they do not seem to be paying attention at all.

I guess not everyone who goes to a game wants to chant/roar and sing.

irishguitarlad · 20-01-2021 2:22pm

Omackeral wrote: »

Whatever about following British teams. An Irish man following Chelsea is just mad to me.

My brother and father are fans. I asked my brother for a jacket to borrow and he gave me a Chelsea one, I didn't bother wearing it haha

partyguinness · 20-01-2021 2:22pm

Did you smash it wrote: »

It’s his money. He’s free to spend it as he wishes.

I get that. Thanks.

20-01-2021 2:25pm

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Was getting the train to Cork today and in Mallow there was a fella working there with a Chelsea hat on. He started talking to a fella saying "we" and all this shíte and saying that I hope a blue team wins the league anyway. It's obviously not the whole reason why football is fúcked in this country but he and people like him are definitely part of the problem. If I was living in Ireland I'd probably go with Bohs and see a few games as down in Kerry there's no team and I couldn't support Cork city:-p

Even though I think most of Kerry was part of the "Desmond" part of Munster, I'm sure Thomond United will welcome supporters from all over North Munster... if they get off the ground.

I'm curious to know if football supporters from North Tipp and Clare will find it easier to support a side called Thomond (Thomond derives from the Irish for North Munster, afaik) over the old Limerick FC ... I have my doubts...

partyguinness · 20-01-2021 2:25pm

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

I'm in two minds about this.

Is he a gobdaw for being a Roscommon man obsessed with Leicester?

Yes.

The gas thing is I never spoke to the guy once but yet I managed to hear half his life story. He was just waffling away to no one in particular.

You know the type...they sit there on their own shouting out all sorts of opinions to nobody in particular but just looking for a reaction.

irishguitarlad · 20-01-2021 2:32pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Even though I think most of Kerry was part of the "Desmond" part of Munster, I'm sure Thomond United will welcome supporters from all over North Munster... if they get off the ground.

I'm curious to know if football supporters from North Tipp and Clare will find it easier to support a side called Thomond (Thomond derives from the Irish for North Munster, afaik) over the old Limerick FC ... I have my doubts...

Yeah I'd say Kerry people would definitely get behind that Thomond idea, it surprised me that more Kerry people didn't get behind Limerick FC as the majority of them support Limerick in the hurling. But then again Kerry is full of United and Liverpool supporters so that's probably it.

IAMAMORON · 20-01-2021 2:37pm

I think the FAI and the IFA should be looking into amalgamation in the long term. It can only benefit the game. This business of having an essentially sectarian divide through the country needs to wise up.

It can only make both leagues more competitive in the long term.

Furthermore it would show the SFA that they don't need to be so smug going forward. If Glasgow, Dundee and Edinburgh can do it I don't see why Ireland can't either.

The other thing the FAI can start doing is taking ownership of their own phuck ups. It is currently suffering from a culture of inward thinking and cover up. Everyone is to blame for Delaney's tenure. " Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" , everyone from top to bottom knew he was a rogue but were more than happy to stick up with him in exchange for a free bar for an hour twice a year. There is blood on all of the FAI hands for tolerating his garbage for too long - with respect to the token few who did try to highlight his shambles.

They also need to take the positive out of him too. He wasn't all bad. It is highly possible that he will now be used as punchbag for everything wrong with the FAI - I doubt he was the only problem within. I read the book, it looked bad, but I couldn't help feel that the writers just poured on the beatings without giving him some respect for the good work he did. The guy was no angel by any means, but he should not be abused as a blame hound either. There is a lot more to 19 years service than a 50 grand birthday and a dissin from shítstirrers like Eamonn Dunphy.

20-01-2021 2:40pm

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Yeah I'd say Kerry people would definitely get behind that Thomond idea, it surprised me that more Kerry people didn't get behind Limerick FC as the majority of them support Limerick in the hurling. But then again Kerry is full of United and Liverpool supporters so that's probably it.

Lot of grá for the Kerry footballers in Limerick too, suppose it helps most of Limerick doesn't care much about Gaelic football so it's easy to give soft support to Kerry in it. Limerick FC are/were a hard team to support, we were down in the first division for years and years but the glory days (relatively) recently were great.

I can't see Thomond United being all that successful but it would be great if they brought in a wider support to the LOI. Plenty of football support in Clare and North Tipp with no local side.

Omackeral · 20-01-2021 2:42pm

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Yeah I'd say Kerry people would definitely get behind that Thomond idea, it surprised me that more Kerry people didn't get behind Limerick FC as the majority of them support Limerick in the hurling. But then again Kerry is full of United and Liverpool supporters so that's probably it.

Kerry having their own team would be great. I’d love to do an away day down there.

cms88 · 20-01-2021 2:51pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Even though I think most of Kerry was part of the "Desmond" part of Munster, I'm sure Thomond United will welcome supporters from all over North Munster... if they get off the ground.

I'm curious to know if football supporters from North Tipp and Clare will find it easier to support a side called Thomond (Thomond derives from the Irish for North Munster, afaik) over the old Limerick FC ... I have my doubts...

I think an issue with Limerick was it was seen as being more a city club rather than for all of Limerick. Re branding Thomond should hopefully help with that

breezy1985 · 20-01-2021 3:00pm

Omackeral wrote: »

Initially won’t cap you unless you play in Italy was what I’d take from that statement. It’s news to me but Kean and Jorginho did start off in Italy so maybe?

Well wouldn't most players from any major soccer country have either started in that country or moved there to play and become naturalised.

The whole only Serie A players get capped goes back to when Serie A was the best in the world and everyone was there anyway but Italian coaches know we'll that day is gone

breezy1985 · 20-01-2021 3:06pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Even though I think most of Kerry was part of the "Desmond" part of Munster, I'm sure Thomond United will welcome supporters from all over North Munster... if they get off the ground.

I'm curious to know if football supporters from North Tipp and Clare will find it easier to support a side called Thomond (Thomond derives from the Irish for North Munster, afaik) over the old Limerick FC ... I have my doubts...

A North Munster side is worth a shot at least. But it need to be more than a name change and get themselves out and about at youth level in the various counties.

AllGunsBlazing · 20-01-2021 3:34pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I think the FAI and the IFA should be looking into amalgamation in the long term.

The IFA would be crazy to jump aboard a sinking ship. A 32 county domestic league needs to happen but will require the LOI to regain its autonomy from the FAI. No easy task.

weldoninhio · 20-01-2021 3:34pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

They don't get picked and fans laugh at them for turning their backs on their domestic league.

Playing in Serie A is Gladiator stuff - it is a great honour.

All three played against Holland in October.

weldoninhio · 20-01-2021 3:35pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It is highly likely there are examples of modern players not abiding by an unwritten rule.

But by and large Italian nationals are expected to play in Serie A.

How often do you see the leading scorer in Serie A getting his game upfront for the national team.

Need a hand with those goalposts??

weldoninhio · 20-01-2021 3:37pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I think the FAI and the IFA should be looking into amalgamation in the long term. It can only benefit the game. This business of having an essentially sectarian divide through the country needs to wise up.

It can only make both leagues more competitive in the long term.

Furthermore it would show the SFA that they don't need to be so smug going forward. If Glasgow, Dundee and Edinburgh can do it I don't see why Ireland can't either.

The other thing the FAI can start doing is taking ownership of their own phuck ups. It is currently suffering from a culture of inward thinking and cover up. Everyone is to blame for Delaney's tenure. " Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" , everyone from top to bottom knew he was a rogue but were more than happy to stick up with him in exchange for a free bar for an hour twice a year. There is blood on all of the FAI hands for tolerating his garbage for too long - with respect to the token few who did try to highlight his shambles.

They also need to take the positive out of him too. He wasn't all bad. It is highly possible that he will now be used as punchbag for everything wrong with the FAI - I doubt he was the only problem within. I read the book, it looked bad, but I couldn't help feel that the writers just poured on the beatings without giving him some respect for the good work he did. The guy was no angel by any means, but he should not be abused as a blame hound either. There is a lot more to 19 years service than a 50 grand birthday and a dissin from shítstirrers like Eamonn Dunphy.

If the IFA and FAI merge we lose one national team. Which one goes?

partyguinness · 20-01-2021 3:37pm

It was highly unusual for Italian or Spanish players to play outside theire own league even up to 10-15 years ago. It was almost unheard of really unless you were past it and looking for one last pay day in England.

I would go so far to say it just didnt happen. I am struggling to think of any top level Spanish or Italian international who played 'abroad' during the 80s, 90s and 00s.

irish_goat · 20-01-2021 3:42pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

If the IFA and FAI merge we lose one national team. Which one goes?

We lose both and create a new national team and FA.

breezy1985 · 20-01-2021 3:49pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

If the IFA and FAI merge we lose one national team. Which one goes?

And possibly a spot on exco which the rest of the world rightly wants any excuse to reform

breezy1985 · 20-01-2021 3:56pm

partyguinness wrote: »

It was highly unusual for Italian or Spanish players to play outside theire own league even up to 10-15 years ago. It was almost unheard of really unless you were past it and looking for one last pay day in England.

I would go so far to say it just didnt happen. I am struggling to think of any top level Spanish or Italian international who played 'abroad' during the 80s, 90s and 00s.

The Spanish were definitely on the move in the 00s but it was rare for a top Italian international to leave.
But for any top country it was rare. The small English exodus to Italy and Spain in the 90s was seen as a strange and rare thing at the time

IAMAMORON · 20-01-2021 4:08pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

If the IFA and FAI merge we lose one national team. Which one goes?

You can retain both national teams whilst having an all Ireland League.

That was my point.

IAMAMORON · 20-01-2021 4:11pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

All three played against Holland in October.

There was outrage in the media about it.

Jorjingo is Brazilian.

As I said nil respecto from the fanzini's

Bobblehats · 20-01-2021 4:18pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

There was outrage in the media about it.

Jorjingo is Brazilian.

As I said nil respecto from the fanzini's

That the fella who had to lose the pounds? They were callin him Gourgino at one point

partyguinness · 20-01-2021 4:19pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

The Spanish were definitely on the move in the 00s but it was rare for a top Italian international to leave.
But for any top country it was rare. The small English exodus to Italy and Spain in the 90s was seen as a strange and rare thing at the time

As a matter of interest I have looked at the Spanish squads at major championships during the 00s and how many of the squad played outside La Liga:

Euro 2000 - 0
WC 2002 - 1 (Mendieta was at Lazio- think that was a loan)
Euro 2004 - 1 (Morientes was at Monaco)
WC 06 - 5 (all in England: Fabregas, Reina, Alonso, Garcia, Reyes)
Euro 08 - 5 (all in England: Fabregas, Reina, Alonso, Torres, Arbeloa)

ROI I believe is the only country that has gone to the WC but with zero players from its own national league. All three times in fact.

After the Juventus scandal in 06 a few Italians moved to Spain like Zambrotta and Cannavaro.

20-01-2021 4:26pm

Isn't soccer the only sport in which the island is divided?

Badminton
Basketball
Boxing
Cricket
Hockey
GAA
Rugby
Cycling
Rowing
Olympic Federation

are all All-Ireland governing bodies.

Howitzer the 5th · 20-01-2021 4:26pm

partyguinness wrote: »

As a matter of interest I have looked at the Spanish squads at major championships during the 00s and how many of the squad played outside La Liga:

Euro 2000 - 0
WC 2002 - 1 (Mendieta was at Lazio- think that was a loan)
Euro 2004 - 1 (Morientes was at Monaco)
WC 06 - 5 (all in England: Fabregas, Reina, Alonso, Garcia, Reyes)
Euro 08 - 5 (all in England: Fabregas, Reina, Alonso, Torres, Arbeloa)

ROI I believe is the only country that has gone to the WC but with zero players from its own national league. All three times in fact.

After the Juventus scandal in 06 a few Italians moved to Spain like Zambrotta and Cannavaro.

Mendieta went for a mammoth fee for the time (close to €40m) in 2001. Lazio had a gilded team at the time but he proved a disastrous buy. Played 20 games in three years and arguably sent Lazio into the decline they've been in ever since. He was imperious with Valencia before that to be fair. Neither Madrid nor Barca were keen to snap him up. Didn't stop him either way from knocking out Ireland on spot kicks in 2002.

breezy1985 · 20-01-2021 4:29pm

partyguinness wrote: »

As a matter of interest I have looked at the Spanish squads at major championships during the 00s and how many of the squad played outside La Liga:

Euro 2000 - 0
WC 2002 - 1 (Mendieta was at Lazio- think that was a loan)
Euro 2004 - 1 (Morientes was at Monaco)
WC 06 - 5 (all in England: Fabregas, Reina, Alonso, Garcia, Reyes)
Euro 08 - 5 (all in England: Fabregas, Reina, Alonso, Torres, Arbeloa)

ROI I believe is the only country that has gone to the WC but with zero players from its own national league. All three times in fact.

After the Juventus scandal in 06 a few Italians moved to Spain like Zambrotta and Cannavaro.

Used to be that the the big 3 would would hold onto almost all their own and then add in a few from other leagues.
The change started when a good English team coincided with Italian megabucks and Heysel then came Bozeman, the Galacticos, Calciopoli and Premier League megabucks which really ended any hopes of protectionism for any league

partyguinness · 20-01-2021 4:45pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Used to be that the the big 3 would would hold onto almost all their own and then add in a few from other leagues.
The change started when a good English team coincided with Italian megabucks and Heysel then came Bozeman, the Galacticos, Calciopoli and Premier League megabucks which really ended any hopes of protectionism for any league

The English first division and PL was very much in the wilderness from 86 onwards and pretty much most of the 90s. English players were generally just not good enough to play in Spain or Italy with the big teams.

Liverpool won the European Cup in 84 and no English club won it again until 1999 and then Liverpool in 2005. One winner in 20 years- obviously Heysel ban took out 86-91.

It was the massive influx of money that turned English football around rather than talent. To a large degree that is still the case.

"We are the richest league in the WORLD...!!"

20-01-2021 4:59pm

partyguinness wrote: »

As a matter of interest I have looked at the Spanish squads at major championships during the 00s and how many of the squad played outside La Liga:

Euro 2000 - 0
WC 2002 - 1 (Mendieta was at Lazio- think that was a loan)
Euro 2004 - 1 (Morientes was at Monaco)
WC 06 - 5 (all in England: Fabregas, Reina, Alonso, Garcia, Reyes)
Euro 08 - 5 (all in England: Fabregas, Reina, Alonso, Torres, Arbeloa)

ROI I believe is the only country that has gone to the WC but with zero players from its own national league. All three times in fact.

After the Juventus scandal in 06 a few Italians moved to Spain like Zambrotta and Cannavaro.

Wouldn't Belgium be similar to us in that respect, having most of their players playing in bigger leagues outside their country?

WesternZulu · 20-01-2021 5:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Wouldn't Belgium be similar to us in that respect, having most of their players playing in bigger leagues outside their country?

I'd imagine they'd still have few players from Anderlecht and the likes in WC squads.
The Belgian league is decent enough, would be great if Ireland had a league comparable.

trashcan · 20-01-2021 5:07pm

partyguinness wrote: »

It was the massive influx of money that turned English football around rather than talent. To a large degree that is still the case.

"We are the richest league in the WORLD...!!"

Yeah, money which facilitated a large amount of foreign top quality imports, as opposed to the 80’s where the top English teams largely consisted of British and Irish players. Look how many of the top 3/4 teams in England now have a lot of British/Irish players, very few.

trashcan · 20-01-2021 5:09pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You can retain both national teams whilst having an all Ireland League.

That was my point.

Can you though ? My understanding was that a domestic league was a requirement for a National team. Anyway, can’t see a United league or International team this side of political unification, whenever that may or may not be.

20-01-2021 5:13pm

trashcan wrote: »

Yeah, money which facilitated a large amount of foreign top quality imports, as opposed to the 80’s where the top English teams largely consisted of British and Irish players. Look how many of the top 3/4 teams in England now have a lot of British/Irish players, very few.

Every year that passes the lower table teams get much less British/Irish also.

Even the Championship is slowly but surely becoming more international, for better or worse. In many ways it's not by design it's just the way it works in a capitalist system. I wish a lot more of our top talent would consider a move to the continent, places like France, Holland, Germany would be great places to learn and develop talent you'd think.

Ireland is a pretend football country

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