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Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

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  • Options
    #5612
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,026 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    end of the road wrote: »
    abortion on demand will not undo or right the wrongs caried out by the catholic church in ireland or anywhere, barbaric as all of what happened was. it's a separate issue anyway.

    It'll prevent it in the future. Church needs to go.


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    #5613
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,843 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    end of the road wrote: »
    i have never screamed baby murderer in someone's face and never would.
    Not literally anyhow.
    you don't know what i do and don't care about. and i have said a plenty that where abortion is needed for a genuine medical reason it should be provided.
    Quite perplexing, given how often you call it murder.

    i actually do have empathy for them. i simply believe in many cases they are wrong to have an abortion and that they shouldn't be facilitated in doing so. they would never be treated as a lesser person by me even though i strongly disagree with what they did.

    But you already call them murderers, how isn't that treating them as lesser people?!


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    #5614
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,026 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    No campaigners being goons yet again: "Cork TD's constituency office graffitied with words 'Baby Killer', 'Blood Money' and 'Kill'" https://www.joe.ie/news/cork-tds-baby-killer-628248

    Locally, in addition to the trespassing leading to a stolen poster and fencepost in our yard the night the No posters went up everywhere, a neighbor down the road with a Ta sign had it defaced with the Irish for "Baby Murderer". They were able to cover the defacement with some Yes stickers, fortunately.


  • Options
    #5615
    one world order
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭one world order


    Abortion is killing a baby, no need to be embarrassed, it was voted for, now own it.


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    #5616
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    The cheering post referendum was truly sickening. People were celebrating as if abortion was the best thing ever to happen this country. And going on what some yes siders have posted on here I am beginning to believe that is the general attitude on the yes side.
    If anything demanded sensitivity this was it. But no it was treated as if Ireland won the soccer world cup.

    Arrived back to work, overseas, 3 days after the referendum. Every man I work with, from many different countries, including Ireland, all congratulated me. All of them. They all understood they were congratulating me on women's rights becoming more equal. They were not congratulating me on abortion being legal in Ireland.
    Even foreign men couldn't understand how Ireland still treated women second.


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    #5617
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    one world order wrote: »
    Abortion is killing a baby, no need to be embarrassed, it was voted for, now own it.

    Isn't that what we will now legislate for or 'own' as you put it?

    And when the legislation is in place there will still be those who will emotively call it a 'baby' in an attempt to guilt trip. An attempt that backfired spectacularly when this country faced up to itself a week ago.


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    #5618
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    end of the road wrote: »
    abortion on demand will not undo or right the wrongs caried out by the catholic church in ireland or anywhere, barbaric as all of what happened was. it's a separate issue anyway.

    People aren't saying abortion will undo the wrongs committed by the church. They're simply pointing out the hypocrisy of an organisation claiming to be against it because they care so much about children, while simultaneously doing their utmost to sweep their own disgusting treatment of actual living children under the rug.


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    #5619
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    People aren't saying abortion will undo the wrongs committed by the church. They're simply pointing out the hypocrisy of an organisation claiming to be against it because they care so much about children, while simultaneously doing their utmost to sweep their own disgusting treatment of actual living children under the rug.

    Spot on.
    The churchs taking care of something is clearly in the mafia sense.

    They treated born baby's from unmarried mothers and women in general with utter contempt as they saw them as dirt, the only benefit was if they coukd profit from them, now they have the cheek to claim they care about them.

    The church is in no position to dictate right and wrong to anybody anymore. Claiming yes voters should go and confess really shows just how out of touch and laughable they are as an organisation,

    I know very religious 70 year olds who think the church need to stop embarrassing themselves and stop getting involved.

    They are out of touch with the vast majority of Catholics in this country.


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    #5620
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,338 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    one world order wrote: »
    Abortion is killing a baby, no need to be embarrassed, it was voted for, now own it.

    No it is not, we aren't, yes we did, don't have to. In that order.


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    #5621
    Bridge93
    Registered Users Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    Every time someone from the church opens their mouth on this whole issue, the organisations grave gets a little deeper. Keep it up lads Ireland is done with you


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    #5622
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,143 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Ah, FFS
    http://www.thejournal.ie/joanna-jordan-ref-4051212-Jun2018/

    She's out to act the maggot again. We have a system that let's any fool, hold up clear decisions.


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    #5623
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    Water John wrote: »
    Ah, FFS
    http://www.thejournal.ie/joanna-jordan-ref-4051212-Jun2018/

    She's out to act the maggot again. We have a system that let's any fool, hold up clear decisions.

    A €1 million bill from the last time. Where did the dollar come from to pay that.


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    #5624
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Water John wrote: »
    Ah, FFS
    http://www.thejournal.ie/joanna-jordan-ref-4051212-Jun2018/

    She's out to act the maggot again. We have a system that let's any fool, hold up clear decisions.

    Clearly the mouth piece for some organisation or other.


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    #5625
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,143 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    So if you have access to money, from any source, you can seek to subvert the democratic will of the people.
    I would suggest, fast court rulings.


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    #5626
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Clearly the mouth piece for some organisation or other.

    Yep, that's how iona and co work.
    they won't bring a court case directly, instead they'll get some person and bank roll them .

    Chap from Co Kilkenny after the marriage ref for example, he was ultra religious and previously believed the state didn't have the right for his wife to divorce him.


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    #5627
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Water John wrote: »
    So if you have access to money, from any source, you can seek to subvert the democratic will of the people.
    I would suggest, fast court rulings.

    This court case certainly won't drag on very long, they'll deal with it quickly


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    #5628
    Cupcake_Crisis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    Water John wrote: »
    Ah, FFS
    http://www.thejournal.ie/joanna-jordan-ref-4051212-Jun2018/

    She's out to act the maggot again. We have a system that let's any fool, hold up clear decisions.

    I literally came here just to post that. There was always going to be feckin one.


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    #5629
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,143 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Her boast is, that she delayed the Childrens Ref implemantation by two and a half years. Will Mattie walk by her side again?


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    #5630
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    People aren't saying abortion will undo the wrongs committed by the church. They're simply pointing out the hypocrisy of an organisation claiming to be against it because they care so much about children, while simultaneously doing their utmost to sweep their own disgusting treatment of actual living children under the rug.

    Spot on.
    The churchs taking care of something is clearly in the mafia sense.

    They treated born baby's from unmarried mothers and women in general with utter contempt as they saw them as dirt, the only benefit was if they coukd profit from them, now they have the cheek to claim they care about them.

    The church is in no position to dictate right and wrong to anybody anymore. Claiming yes voters should go and confess really shows just how out of touch and laughable they are as an organisation,

    I know very religious 70 year olds who think the church need to stop embarrassing themselves and stop getting involved.

    They are out of touch with the vast majority of Catholics in this country.
    This is all fine and well but pretend Catholics should stop having weddings in Catholic Churches then, stop having funerals in Catholic Churches, stop associating with the Catholic church. Do Catholics in the Republic not see how hypocritical that is?
    Abortion is a big no in the Catholic Church. How any Catholic can support abortion reform and be a Catholic while disobeying such a big fundamental principle in the Church in beyond me. Do not call yourself a Catholic, do not attend Catholic church, do not have a wedding in a Catholic church. Then you won't be a hypocrite.


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    #5631
    Cupcake_Crisis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    Taytoland wrote: »
    This is all fine and well but pretend Catholics should stop having weddings in Catholic Churches then, stop having funerals in Catholic Churches, stop associating with the Catholic church. Do Catholics in the Republic not see how hypocritical that is?
    Abortion is a big no in the Catholic Church. How any Catholic can support abortion reform and be a Catholic while disobeying such a big fundamental principle in the Church in beyond me. Do not call yourself a Catholic, do not attend Catholic church, do not have a wedding in a Catholic church. Then you won't be a hypocrite.
    You’d be extremely hard pushed to find a single person who abides by every single rule, law or commandment of the Catholic Church.

    You don’t sound very forgiving btw, which is central catholic teaching. So we’re all in the same boat.


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    #5632
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,143 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Tayto, by your criteria, very few Italians are Catholic. Most Europeans would be much more, a la carte Catholics, than us.
    We also always had a mixture of Catholicism and Paganism until very recently.


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    #5633
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »
    Taytoland wrote: »
    This is all fine and well but pretend Catholics should stop having weddings in Catholic Churches then, stop having funerals in Catholic Churches, stop associating with the Catholic church. Do Catholics in the Republic not see how hypocritical that is?
    Abortion is a big no in the Catholic Church. How any Catholic can support abortion reform and be a Catholic while disobeying such a big fundamental principle in the Church in beyond me. Do not call yourself a Catholic, do not attend Catholic church, do not have a wedding in a Catholic church. Then you won't be a hypocrite.
    You’d be extremely hard pushed to find a single person who abides by every single rule, law or commandment of the Catholic Church.

    You don’t sound very forgiving btw, which is central catholic teaching. So we’re all in the same boat.

    I'm not a Catholic. I'm just not a hypocrite. If Irish people hate the Catholic church then stop associating with it. It's been my dream to see the influence of Rome rule collapse for many years. I just detest the pretend Catholics still using it's services.


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    #5634
    Cupcake_Crisis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    Taytoland wrote: »
    I'm not a Catholic. I'm just not a hypocrite. If Irish people hate the Catholic church then stop associating with it. It's been my dream to see the influence of Rome rule collapse for many years. I just detest the pretend Catholics still using it's services.

    If you look at trends you’ll see that people, particularly younger people, are moving away from the church. But it takes time to break tradition.


  • Options
    #5635
    spookwoman
    Registered Users Posts: 9,922 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    end of the road wrote: »
    neither those or abortion on demand are acceptable to me. i don't see what the wrongs caried out by the catholic church, horific as they are, have to do with this specific debate at all. repealing the 8th and abortion on demand don't right those wrongs.



    agreed, however it wasn't the ordinary no voters who nominateed them. so we aren't associated with them in any way.

    Sorry about delay in replying. The post was replying to and specifically the line in bold about the tuam babies and results of taking abortive pills.
    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Would you consider this a more humane outcome for them?
    We've had a few people from the no side come in an bring religion into it. We have the Iona crowd and church all condemning the yes vote yet the champions of the church and those beliefs have a terrible history when it comes to women and children. The Tuam babies scandal is a prime example of why the church should keep it's mouth shut. The no side had a lot of help and funding from religious groups and i know the pro life campaign say they are non denominational but they all p*ss in the pot.


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    #5636
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,518 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Spot on.
    The churchs taking care of something is clearly in the mafia sense.

    They treated born baby's from unmarried mothers and women in general with utter contempt as they saw them as dirt, the only benefit was if they coukd profit from them, now they have the cheek to claim they care about them.

    The church is in no position to dictate right and wrong to anybody anymore. Claiming yes voters should go and confess really shows just how out of touch and laughable they are as an organisation,

    I know very religious 70 year olds who think the church need to stop embarrassing themselves and stop getting involved.

    They are out of touch with the vast majority of Catholics in this country.

    Just in relation to your point it's worth noting that for every women and child who suffered at the hands of the church there was probably a mother, father, brother, sister, cousin, friend and neighbor who left it happen. Let's not kid ourself into thinking the church are the only ones culpable, society in general needs to take a good hard look at itself.


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    #5637
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,990 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    People aren't saying abortion will undo the wrongs committed by the church. They're simply pointing out the hypocrisy of an organisation claiming to be against it because they care so much about children, while simultaneously doing their utmost to sweep their own disgusting treatment of actual living children under the rug.

    and what about society's part in it? society were happy for the church to take care of these women and children. families put these people into homes and shunned them. the church's behaviour was contemptible but guess what, apart from the other children of these families who are completely innocent, society was not blameless.
    Cabaal wrote: »
    Spot on.
    The churchs taking care of something is clearly in the mafia sense.

    They treated born baby's from unmarried mothers and women in general with utter contempt as they saw them as dirt, the only benefit was if they coukd profit from them, now they have the cheek to claim they care about them.

    The church is in no position to dictate right and wrong to anybody anymore. Claiming yes voters should go and confess really shows just how out of touch and laughable they are as an organisation,

    I know very religious 70 year olds who think the church need to stop embarrassing themselves and stop getting involved.

    They are out of touch with the vast majority of Catholics in this country.

    or perhapse most people in ireland aren't actually catholic these days?
    i have no time for the church myself but if following the teachings of a religion is being out of touch then perhapse people are just no longer interested in being part of that specific religion and they should therefore stop using the church when it suits them.
    Bridge93 wrote: »
    Every time someone from the church opens their mouth on this whole issue, the organisations grave gets a little deeper. Keep it up lads Ireland is done with you

    yet people will put catholic down on the census, and use the church when it suits them for weadings, christenings, communions, confirmations, funerals.
    Water John wrote: »
    So if you have access to money, from any source, you can seek to subvert the democratic will of the people.
    I would suggest, fast court rulings.

    i don't see how it's subverting anything given that it's her democratic right to put forward a challenge to the courts. in fact i'd suggest it's the essence of democracy to be able to do this. it shows that for all our problems ireland is a good example of how a democracy should run.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #5638
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,023 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    Just in relation to your point it's worth noting that for every women and child who suffered at the hands of the church there was probably a mother, father, brother, sister, cousin, friend and neighbor who left it happen. Let's not kid ourself into thinking the church are the only ones culpable, society in general needs to take a good hard look at itself.

    This is a disgusting allegation.

    Can you suggest any reason why a family would knowingly let its children be molested by priests?

    People didn't believe it was possible for a priest to do something evil. Because they were brainwashed by the church. Not because they didn't care about their children.


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    #5639
    Wrongway1985
    Registered Users Posts: 6,350 ✭✭✭Wrongway1985


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    The cheering post referendum was truly sickening. People were celebrating as if abortion was the best thing ever to happen this country.
    You don't get it they weren't cheering abortion or maybe that's the way you prefer to see it. They were cheering relief, relief that in such difficult circumstances Ireland agreed unanimously we'll respect and aid what people deem best for themselves. I personally had a few scoops that night thoroughly enjoyable as the outcome.
    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    And the idea that abortions will decline when abortions become free whereas before they involved some costs is not credible.
    How is it not credible? Germany,Netherlands , Switzerland who also legalized by referendum(2002) rates dropped dramatically. Portugal even figures increased and then they began to stabilize.

    Why do you want people who can't pay some costs to remain pregnant or something? You make it sound like that would be ideal.


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    #5640
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Taytoland wrote: »
    I'm not a Catholic. I'm just not a hypocrite. If Irish people hate the Catholic church then stop associating with it. It's been my dream to see the influence of Rome rule collapse for many years. I just detest the pretend Catholics still using it's services.

    Well you said your from east Belfast so statistically you wouldn't be Catholic, but since you think abortion should be used to generate a pure white race well that's something else besides religion unless your religion supports this, I don't think so.


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    #5641
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    end of the road wrote: »
    and what about society's part in it? society were happy for the church to take care of these women and children. families put these people into homes and shunned them. the church's behaviour was contemptible but guess what, apart from the other children of these families who are completely innocent, society was not blameless.

    That's completely irrelevant. The fact other people could, hypothetically, have stopped the church doing terrible things doesn't change the fact that the church did do these things and are now using their position of power to influence people's votes under the guise of caring about children. It's sickening hypocrisy.

    That said, I'd agree with you and others in that anyone who has a problem with the church's position should just stop encouraging them by going to mass, etc. I can only assume it's not that easy for lifelong Catholics though.


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