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Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

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Comments

  • #5582
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,363 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    one world order wrote: »
    Abortion is killing a baby, no need to be embarrassed, it was voted for, now own it.

    No it is not, we aren't, yes we did, don't have to. In that order.


  • #5583
    Bridge93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    Every time someone from the church opens their mouth on this whole issue, the organisations grave gets a little deeper. Keep it up lads Ireland is done with you


  • #5584
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,831 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Ah, FFS
    http://www.thejournal.ie/joanna-jordan-ref-4051212-Jun2018/

    She's out to act the maggot again. We have a system that let's any fool, hold up clear decisions.


  • #5585
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    Water John wrote: »
    Ah, FFS
    http://www.thejournal.ie/joanna-jordan-ref-4051212-Jun2018/

    She's out to act the maggot again. We have a system that let's any fool, hold up clear decisions.

    A €1 million bill from the last time. Where did the dollar come from to pay that.


  • #5586
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Water John wrote: »
    Ah, FFS
    http://www.thejournal.ie/joanna-jordan-ref-4051212-Jun2018/

    She's out to act the maggot again. We have a system that let's any fool, hold up clear decisions.

    Clearly the mouth piece for some organisation or other.


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  • #5587
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,831 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    So if you have access to money, from any source, you can seek to subvert the democratic will of the people.
    I would suggest, fast court rulings.


  • #5588
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,564 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Clearly the mouth piece for some organisation or other.

    Yep, that's how iona and co work.
    they won't bring a court case directly, instead they'll get some person and bank roll them .

    Chap from Co Kilkenny after the marriage ref for example, he was ultra religious and previously believed the state didn't have the right for his wife to divorce him.


  • #5589
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,564 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Water John wrote: »
    So if you have access to money, from any source, you can seek to subvert the democratic will of the people.
    I would suggest, fast court rulings.

    This court case certainly won't drag on very long, they'll deal with it quickly


  • #5590
    Cupcake_Crisis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    Water John wrote: »
    Ah, FFS
    http://www.thejournal.ie/joanna-jordan-ref-4051212-Jun2018/

    She's out to act the maggot again. We have a system that let's any fool, hold up clear decisions.

    I literally came here just to post that. There was always going to be feckin one.


  • #5591
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,831 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Her boast is, that she delayed the Childrens Ref implemantation by two and a half years. Will Mattie walk by her side again?


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  • #5592
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    People aren't saying abortion will undo the wrongs committed by the church. They're simply pointing out the hypocrisy of an organisation claiming to be against it because they care so much about children, while simultaneously doing their utmost to sweep their own disgusting treatment of actual living children under the rug.

    Spot on.
    The churchs taking care of something is clearly in the mafia sense.

    They treated born baby's from unmarried mothers and women in general with utter contempt as they saw them as dirt, the only benefit was if they coukd profit from them, now they have the cheek to claim they care about them.

    The church is in no position to dictate right and wrong to anybody anymore. Claiming yes voters should go and confess really shows just how out of touch and laughable they are as an organisation,

    I know very religious 70 year olds who think the church need to stop embarrassing themselves and stop getting involved.

    They are out of touch with the vast majority of Catholics in this country.
    This is all fine and well but pretend Catholics should stop having weddings in Catholic Churches then, stop having funerals in Catholic Churches, stop associating with the Catholic church. Do Catholics in the Republic not see how hypocritical that is?
    Abortion is a big no in the Catholic Church. How any Catholic can support abortion reform and be a Catholic while disobeying such a big fundamental principle in the Church in beyond me. Do not call yourself a Catholic, do not attend Catholic church, do not have a wedding in a Catholic church. Then you won't be a hypocrite.


  • #5593
    Cupcake_Crisis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    Taytoland wrote: »
    This is all fine and well but pretend Catholics should stop having weddings in Catholic Churches then, stop having funerals in Catholic Churches, stop associating with the Catholic church. Do Catholics in the Republic not see how hypocritical that is?
    Abortion is a big no in the Catholic Church. How any Catholic can support abortion reform and be a Catholic while disobeying such a big fundamental principle in the Church in beyond me. Do not call yourself a Catholic, do not attend Catholic church, do not have a wedding in a Catholic church. Then you won't be a hypocrite.
    You’d be extremely hard pushed to find a single person who abides by every single rule, law or commandment of the Catholic Church.

    You don’t sound very forgiving btw, which is central catholic teaching. So we’re all in the same boat.


  • #5594
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,831 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Tayto, by your criteria, very few Italians are Catholic. Most Europeans would be much more, a la carte Catholics, than us.
    We also always had a mixture of Catholicism and Paganism until very recently.


  • #5595
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »
    Taytoland wrote: »
    This is all fine and well but pretend Catholics should stop having weddings in Catholic Churches then, stop having funerals in Catholic Churches, stop associating with the Catholic church. Do Catholics in the Republic not see how hypocritical that is?
    Abortion is a big no in the Catholic Church. How any Catholic can support abortion reform and be a Catholic while disobeying such a big fundamental principle in the Church in beyond me. Do not call yourself a Catholic, do not attend Catholic church, do not have a wedding in a Catholic church. Then you won't be a hypocrite.
    You’d be extremely hard pushed to find a single person who abides by every single rule, law or commandment of the Catholic Church.

    You don’t sound very forgiving btw, which is central catholic teaching. So we’re all in the same boat.

    I'm not a Catholic. I'm just not a hypocrite. If Irish people hate the Catholic church then stop associating with it. It's been my dream to see the influence of Rome rule collapse for many years. I just detest the pretend Catholics still using it's services.


  • #5596
    Cupcake_Crisis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    Taytoland wrote: »
    I'm not a Catholic. I'm just not a hypocrite. If Irish people hate the Catholic church then stop associating with it. It's been my dream to see the influence of Rome rule collapse for many years. I just detest the pretend Catholics still using it's services.

    If you look at trends you’ll see that people, particularly younger people, are moving away from the church. But it takes time to break tradition.


  • #5597
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,059 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman


    end of the road wrote: »
    neither those or abortion on demand are acceptable to me. i don't see what the wrongs caried out by the catholic church, horific as they are, have to do with this specific debate at all. repealing the 8th and abortion on demand don't right those wrongs.



    agreed, however it wasn't the ordinary no voters who nominateed them. so we aren't associated with them in any way.

    Sorry about delay in replying. The post was replying to and specifically the line in bold about the tuam babies and results of taking abortive pills.
    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Would you consider this a more humane outcome for them?
    We've had a few people from the no side come in an bring religion into it. We have the Iona crowd and church all condemning the yes vote yet the champions of the church and those beliefs have a terrible history when it comes to women and children. The Tuam babies scandal is a prime example of why the church should keep it's mouth shut. The no side had a lot of help and funding from religious groups and i know the pro life campaign say they are non denominational but they all p*ss in the pot.


  • #5598
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,633 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Spot on.
    The churchs taking care of something is clearly in the mafia sense.

    They treated born baby's from unmarried mothers and women in general with utter contempt as they saw them as dirt, the only benefit was if they coukd profit from them, now they have the cheek to claim they care about them.

    The church is in no position to dictate right and wrong to anybody anymore. Claiming yes voters should go and confess really shows just how out of touch and laughable they are as an organisation,

    I know very religious 70 year olds who think the church need to stop embarrassing themselves and stop getting involved.

    They are out of touch with the vast majority of Catholics in this country.

    Just in relation to your point it's worth noting that for every women and child who suffered at the hands of the church there was probably a mother, father, brother, sister, cousin, friend and neighbor who left it happen. Let's not kid ourself into thinking the church are the only ones culpable, society in general needs to take a good hard look at itself.


  • #5599
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,495 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    People aren't saying abortion will undo the wrongs committed by the church. They're simply pointing out the hypocrisy of an organisation claiming to be against it because they care so much about children, while simultaneously doing their utmost to sweep their own disgusting treatment of actual living children under the rug.

    and what about society's part in it? society were happy for the church to take care of these women and children. families put these people into homes and shunned them. the church's behaviour was contemptible but guess what, apart from the other children of these families who are completely innocent, society was not blameless.
    Cabaal wrote: »
    Spot on.
    The churchs taking care of something is clearly in the mafia sense.

    They treated born baby's from unmarried mothers and women in general with utter contempt as they saw them as dirt, the only benefit was if they coukd profit from them, now they have the cheek to claim they care about them.

    The church is in no position to dictate right and wrong to anybody anymore. Claiming yes voters should go and confess really shows just how out of touch and laughable they are as an organisation,

    I know very religious 70 year olds who think the church need to stop embarrassing themselves and stop getting involved.

    They are out of touch with the vast majority of Catholics in this country.

    or perhapse most people in ireland aren't actually catholic these days?
    i have no time for the church myself but if following the teachings of a religion is being out of touch then perhapse people are just no longer interested in being part of that specific religion and they should therefore stop using the church when it suits them.
    Bridge93 wrote: »
    Every time someone from the church opens their mouth on this whole issue, the organisations grave gets a little deeper. Keep it up lads Ireland is done with you

    yet people will put catholic down on the census, and use the church when it suits them for weadings, christenings, communions, confirmations, funerals.
    Water John wrote: »
    So if you have access to money, from any source, you can seek to subvert the democratic will of the people.
    I would suggest, fast court rulings.

    i don't see how it's subverting anything given that it's her democratic right to put forward a challenge to the courts. in fact i'd suggest it's the essence of democracy to be able to do this. it shows that for all our problems ireland is a good example of how a democracy should run.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #5600
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,643 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    Just in relation to your point it's worth noting that for every women and child who suffered at the hands of the church there was probably a mother, father, brother, sister, cousin, friend and neighbor who left it happen. Let's not kid ourself into thinking the church are the only ones culpable, society in general needs to take a good hard look at itself.

    This is a disgusting allegation.

    Can you suggest any reason why a family would knowingly let its children be molested by priests?

    People didn't believe it was possible for a priest to do something evil. Because they were brainwashed by the church. Not because they didn't care about their children.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • #5601
    Wrongway1985
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Wrongway1985


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    The cheering post referendum was truly sickening. People were celebrating as if abortion was the best thing ever to happen this country.
    You don't get it they weren't cheering abortion or maybe that's the way you prefer to see it. They were cheering relief, relief that in such difficult circumstances Ireland agreed unanimously we'll respect and aid what people deem best for themselves. I personally had a few scoops that night thoroughly enjoyable as the outcome.
    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    And the idea that abortions will decline when abortions become free whereas before they involved some costs is not credible.
    How is it not credible? Germany,Netherlands , Switzerland who also legalized by referendum(2002) rates dropped dramatically. Portugal even figures increased and then they began to stabilize.

    Why do you want people who can't pay some costs to remain pregnant or something? You make it sound like that would be ideal.


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  • #5602
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Taytoland wrote: »
    I'm not a Catholic. I'm just not a hypocrite. If Irish people hate the Catholic church then stop associating with it. It's been my dream to see the influence of Rome rule collapse for many years. I just detest the pretend Catholics still using it's services.

    Well you said your from east Belfast so statistically you wouldn't be Catholic, but since you think abortion should be used to generate a pure white race well that's something else besides religion unless your religion supports this, I don't think so.


  • #5603
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Water John wrote: »
    Her boast is, that she delayed the Childrens Ref implemantation by two and a half years. Will Mattie walk by her side again?
    No doubt, and being represented by the Iona Institute's solicitor of choice, Kevin Brophy.


  • #5604
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    Taytoland wrote: »
    I'm not a Catholic. I'm just not a hypocrite. If Irish people hate the Catholic church then stop associating with it. It's been my dream to see the influence of Rome rule collapse for many years. I just detest the pretend Catholics still using it's services.

    Well you said your from east Belfast so statistically you wouldn't be Catholic, but since you think abortion should be used to generate a pure white race well that's something else besides religion unless your religion supports this, I don't think so.
    More lies. If you have such control that is very plausible.


  • #5605
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Water John wrote: »
    Ah, FFS
    http://www.thejournal.ie/joanna-jordan-ref-4051212-Jun2018/

    She's out to act the maggot again. We have a system that let's any fool, hold up clear decisions.
    Brace yourselves too, this c*nt will have all $orts of foreign interest in her appeal.

    I'm very interested to see on what grounds she challenges though; Supreme Court already made precedent in the 2015 ruling vs. the government promoting a certain outcome, I can't at the moment imagine what her legal argument is.


  • #5606
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,564 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    Just in relation to your point it's worth noting that for every women and child who suffered at the hands of the church there was probably a mother, father, brother, sister, cousin, friend and neighbor who left it happen. Let's not kid ourself into thinking the church are the only ones culpable, society in general needs to take a good hard look at itself.

    Indeed, there is a degree of blame.
    But when you fear the parish priest and he tells you to send your daughter to a home many people will comply. Of course not all will, but many did.

    Locally I know of at least one story where the mother told the priest to mind his own business, but she was very head strong.

    Even in my own extended family we have a story of the priest telling a mother that because her son was leaving the priesthood she needed to destroy all photos of him and he was never to return to the community. (she never did destroy them and he did eventually come back from the UK)

    The point being is that local priest had power, if you had a business then a few words from the priest could ruin that business. This did happen.

    Its often hard for us to realise the massive power they had and the culture of shame and fear created by the church.


  • #5607
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Taytoland wrote: »
    DubInMeath wrote:
    Well you said your from east Belfast so statistically you wouldn't be Catholic, but since you think abortion should be used to generate a pure white race well that's something else besides religion unless your religion supports this, I don't think so.
    More lies. If you have such control that is very plausible.
    Plausible based on what, exactly?

    Dumbass racists that have pushed this narrative in the past (that I would urge you not to associate with) have been quick to point out, for instance, the founder of Planned Parenthood and/or the number of African-american abortions in the US. Puzzling though, since census data continues to show that all minorities are growing demographics in the US while the white majority continues to shrink: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States

    So I'm not sure on what grounds this is 'plausible' or happening. Just racist scaremongering that makes no sense: surely, in a matter of personal choice no one can force a minority woman to abort her child. But sure it makes people feel like they're supporting the cause to yell "genocide! Holocaust!"


  • #5608
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,059 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman


    Overheal wrote: »
    Brace yourselves too, this c*nt will have all $orts of foreign interest in her appeal.

    I'm very interested to see on what grounds she challenges though; Supreme Court already made precedent in the 2015 ruling vs. the government promoting a certain outcome, I can't at the moment imagine what her legal argument is.
    Kathy Sinnott helped her get funds last time
    "Her own resources were small but her legal action was funded by donations from various sources. Some €18,000 had been received after she and former MEP Kathy Sinnott emailed their contacts and an advert was placed in the Catholic Voice ."
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/unlawfully-funded-yes-campaign-influenced-children-s-referendum-result-court-told-1.1363854


  • #5609
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    spookwoman wrote: »
    Kathy Sinnott helped her get funds last time
    "Her own resources were small but her legal action was funded by donations from various sources. Some €18,000 had been received after she and former MEP Kathy Sinnott emailed their contacts and an advert was placed in the Catholic Voice ."
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/unlawfully-funded-yes-campaign-influenced-children-s-referendum-result-court-told-1.1363854

    Oh, to fight abortion legalization, in Ireland? She could get millions from US interests at the drop of a hat.


  • #5610
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,633 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    volchitsa wrote: »
    This is a disgusting allegation.

    Can you suggest any reason why a family would knowingly let its children be molested by priests?

    People didn't believe it was possible for a priest to do something evil. Because they were brainwashed by the church. Not because they didn't care about their children.

    Maybe read the post first before twisting it into something else. The discussion was in relation to mother and baby homes.


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  • #5611
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Taytoland wrote: »
    More lies. If you have such control that is very plausible.

    Really so you were just being sarcastic I suppose
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=107138605&postcount=4719


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