Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

1…189190191192193195»

Comments

  • #9702
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Sick of this bolloxology from the UK government, an utter farce. What an absolute dysfunctional pantomime they have descended into now.

    At this stage I'm almost wishing they'd just be gone. Bit of finality to the shytsorm, and the rest of us could assess what this actually means to our lives, both in business and day to day terms, try and adapt and move on.

    My only slight pleasure from the entire clusterfcuk has been witnessing how the DUP are slowly being reduced to the irrelevance they really are and always have been to the rest of their British peers.


  • #9703
    Inquitus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,762 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Calltocall wrote: »
    So by threatening them she thinks the over a hundred deficit will be reduced and she’ll get it through next time? Or is she going to make further amendments to win the doubters over? it doesn’t sound very hopeful at all that she will be third time lucky! Also is it not a bit presumptuous that they will actually be granted the extension?

    ERG is about 80 votes, about 72 of them voted against last night, 10 DUP also voted against. To reverse a 150 vote majority she needs 75 of those 80, it does not look likely, but the ERG could decide unanimously to get some Brexit rather than risk no Brexit, so while it looks unlikely looking at the numbers, it does have some potential to fly in reality.


  • #9704
    gooch2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭gooch2k9


    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1105932337202774018?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    She'll likely get it through then. DUP can't back away from Brexit either.

    Bercow is to make a judgement on if it can be voted on again. Any whispers of when that will be made?


  • #9705
    Inquitus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,762 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    gooch2k9 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1105932337202774018?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    She'll likely get it through then. DUP can't back away from Brexit either.

    Bercow is to make a judgement on if it can be voted on again. Any whispers of when that will be made?

    She needs almost all of the ERG mind, it only takes 10 odd of them and/or the DUP to go the other way and its dead.


  • #9706
    Irishmale0399
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Irishmale0399


    Have the EU said anything to the shambles tonight???


  • #9707
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Francois certainly won't support it, but some more LB MPs might support it.


  • #9708
    Calltocall
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭Calltocall


    Inquitus wrote: »
    ERG is about 80 votes, about 72 of them voted against last night, 10 DUP also voted against. To reverse a 150 vote majority she needs 75 of those 80, it does not look likely, but the ERG could decide unanimously to get some Brexit rather than risk no Brexit, so while it looks unlikely looking at the numbers, it does have some potential to fly in reality.

    Cheers for explanation, And if she falls a third time, what then, if it’s a general election isn’t it again unlikely that even a new government would be able to close the gap, I think it’s heading one way and that is to a no deal exit, might be best then not to grant the extension and get it over with rather than waiting months for the same outcome, I think if it’s an extension then there going to need longer than three months!


  • #9709
    Roger_007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    Irishmale0399 wrote: »
    Have the EU said anything to the shambles tonight???

    The mods wouldn't allow it to be repeated on Boards.;)


  • #9710
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,119 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Irishmale0399 wrote: »
    Have the EU said anything to the shambles tonight???

    Basically - There is only Deal or No Deal. The EU have agreed one and it is ready to sign (EU Commission statement I think)


  • #9711
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,235 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Inquitus wrote: »
    Their vote is sovereign, ofc the EU can make a recommendation and apply, perhaps, some political pressure, but at the end of the day it's in each one of the E27's hands.

    Well, it's no real skin off the nose of France to vote to extend A50, even if it's only by a few months. Since Ireland is by far the most affected by Brexit, it would be an interesting test of EU solidarity to see what the rest of the EU 27 say.


  • Advertisement
  • #9712
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,467 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    gooch2k9 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1105932337202774018?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    She'll likely get it through then. DUP can't back away from Brexit either.

    Bercow is to make a judgement on if it can be voted on again. Any whispers of when that will be made?

    Makes no sense. So the only reason to vote against the previous two was because of May!?

    Are these lads for real?

    If they do that; they've lost all credibility. Whatever shreds of it they did have.

    Making it a personality issue at this stage is the pits.


  • #9713
    Calltocall
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭Calltocall


    briany wrote: »
    Well, it's no real skin off the nose of France to vote to extend A50, even if it's only by a few months. Since Ireland is by far the most affected by Brexit, it would be an interesting test of EU solidarity to see what the rest of the EU 27 say.

    Indeed I’m not convinced it will be granted


  • #9714
    jon1981
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    This is like an Irish phone call ending...

    EU : See ya now
    UK: Take care
    EU: All the best
    UK: Good Luck
    EU: Will ya go on
    UK: I'm going im going
    EU: Grand see ya now
    UK: C'mere and i tell ya, you'll never guess what happened....


  • #9715
    gooch2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭gooch2k9


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Makes no sense. So the only reason to vote against the previous two was because of May!?

    Are these lads for real?

    No deal is better than May's deal. Financially so for some I'd imagine.

    That's starting to look off the table.

    Saying that I wouldn't be surprised if they said this and reneged. Time would be up at that point.


  • #9716
    jon1981
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    briany wrote: »
    Well, it's no real skin off the nose of France to vote to extend A50, even if it's only by a few months. Since Ireland is by far the most affected by Brexit, it would be an interesting test of EU solidarity to see what the rest of the EU 27 say.

    My thoughts exactly, this comes down to the question of will the EU f**k over a member state to make this Brexit deal happen?


  • #9717
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gooch2k9 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1105932337202774018?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    She'll likely get it through then. DUP can't back away from Brexit either.

    Bercow is to make a judgement on if it can be voted on again. Any whispers of when that will be made?

    DUP getting thrown under the bus in that scenario then.


  • #9718
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Inquitus wrote: »
    She needs almost all of the ERG mind, it only takes 10 odd of them and/or the DUP to go the other way and its dead.

    The DUP is mainly concerned with being treated the same as the mainland. I think they'd go for a soft Brexit or even potentially remain, if the only other option is the WA including the backstop.


  • #9719
    dresden8
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    SimonTemplar wrote: »
    Will the countries have a "free vote" or will they vote collectively based on the recommendation from EU leadership?

    Don't think Macron will take orders from Slovenia.


  • #9720
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,854 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Don't think Macron will take orders from Slovenia.

    Germany and France hold the power. God help any of the poor eastern members that act up


  • Advertisement
  • #9721
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    All the talk for the last year or so of the EU backing down and making concessions at the 11th hour may have been because this is how many UK politicians like to do business and they assumed the EU did too. It's astounding that the UK has been in the EU for so long and is still so out of touch on how the union conducts itself.
    Perhaps many of the google searches on "What is the EU?" following the referendum came from inside the HOC.


  • #9722
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,235 ✭✭✭✭briany


    jon1981 wrote: »
    My thoughts exactly, this comes down to the question of will the EU f**k over a member state to make this Brexit deal happen?

    Doubtful. It would be an epic climb down for the EU to go back on their backstop clause after repeated statements on their commitment to it.

    There's no point on signing off on a deal that F's Ireland over permanently when it's better (though not exactly ideal) to go no-deal and then repeat the question of the backstop if and when the UK come back to the table.


  • #9723
    Duane Dibbley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭Duane Dibbley


    briany wrote: »
    Well, it's no real skin off the nose of France to vote to extend A50, even if it's only by a few months. Since Ireland is by far the most affected by Brexit, it would be an interesting test of EU solidarity to see what the rest of the EU 27 say.

    What has would an extension of A50 got to do with solidarity.

    Ireland got what it needed from the EU with the deal that was agreed.

    If the UK don’t come up with that deal agreed or a better one then any of the EU countries can push the UK off the edge and rightly so.

    This needs to end now so Ireland and the rest of the EU can adapt to being 27.


  • #9724
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Flying Fox wrote: »
    The DUP is mainly concerned with being treated the same as the mainland. I think they'd go for a soft Brexit or even potentially remain, if the only other option is the WA including the backstop.

    Is that what they really want? I don't believe so. They have not spoken out against the different tariffs on the Ireland/NI border proposed this morning.
    Also gay marriage, abortion.
    My guess is that they actually want a hard border but they can't come out and say it as it would anger too many people in NI.


  • #9725
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    gooch2k9 wrote: »
    Bercow is to make a judgement on if it can be voted on again. Any whispers of when that will be made?

    Based on his recent rulings (and only that - I'm no expert on HoC procedures), this is my slightly revised prediction of what'll happen next:
    - Bercow says no 3rd vote unless the motion is signficantly amended
    - Kyle-Wilson amendment is tabled as just such an significant change (fits with Kyle saying he'd wait till the time was right)
    but     amended itself to specify that
    -- the subsequent people's vote should be "this deal or no Brexit" on the grounds that parliament has voted no-deal off the table; and
    --     if the EU will not grant an extension to allow such a vote, that Article 50 be revoked (calls the bluff of the ERG's friends in Europe)
    - WA passes with a reasonable majority (ERG and DUP voting against)
    - EU grants only a long extension on the grounds that the UK won't have enough time to organise EP elections if people vote for no Brexit.


  • #9726
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    So Teresa May has lost her voice. Is that not very apt for the night that is in it...


  • Advertisement
  • #9727
    PropJoe10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    So, yet another shambolic day in the House of Commons comes to an end. Roll on tomorrow and more shenanigans! :D


  • #9728
    dresden8
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Germany and France hold the power. God help any of the poor eastern members that act up

    That was also the point I was making.


  • #9729
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,235 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Duane Dibbley wrote: »
    What has would an extension of A50 got to do with solidarity.

    Ireland got what it needed from the EU with the deal that was agreed.

    If the UK don’t come up with that deal agreed or a better one then any of the EU countries can push the UK off the edge and rightly so.

    This needs to end now so Ireland and the rest of the EU can adapt to being 27.

    The more time Ireland has to prepare for Brexit, the better, so it's EU solidarity in terms of looking at Ireland's interest. If another EU country is willing to push the UK off the cliff, it is demonstrating that Brexit doesn't affect them so much. Such countries would do well to remember how badly Ireland is affected, and adjust their vote accordingly. This would be tangible EU solidarity, in contrast to the deal which is a bilateral thing with the UK, and cannot be guaranteed to be delivered.

    The more time we can give the UK to dangle and perhaps lose their nerve altogether, the better. This is in the entire EU's interest, especially a 2 year extension, say. The UK might be an irritating voice in the EU to some, but the also contribute a lot to the budget and add balance to the political landscape of the bloc, being more Euro-sceptic.


  • #9730
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    PropJoe10 wrote: »
    So, yet another shambolic day in the House of Commons comes to an end. Roll on tomorrow and more shenanigans! :D
    It's like Spitting Image, but with the actual people playing themselves rather than having puppets. It'd be hilarious if the situation wasn't so serious.


  • #9731
    PropJoe10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    It's like Spitting Image, but with the actual people playing themselves rather than having puppets. It'd be hilarious if the situation wasn't so serious.


    100%.


  • Advertisement
  • #9732
    dresden8
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Sky going on as if extension is in the gift of parliament.

    Mixed messages at best.


  • #9733
    milhous
    Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭milhous


    CelticRambler wrote: »
    Based on his recent rulings (and only that - I'm no expert on HoC procedures), this is my slightly revised prediction of what'll happen next:
    - Bercow says no 3rd vote unless the motion is signficantly amended
    - Kyle-Wilson amendment is tabled as just such an significant change (fits with Kyle saying he'd wait till the time was right)
    but     amended itself to specify that
    -- the subsequent people's vote should be "this deal or no Brexit" on the grounds that parliament has voted no-deal off the table; and
    --     if the EU will not grant an extension to allow such a vote, that Article 50 be revoked (calls the bluff of the ERG's friends in Europe)
    - WA passes with a reasonable majority (ERG and DUP voting against)
    - EU grants only a long extension on the grounds that the UK won't have enough time to organise EP elections if people vote for no Brexit.

    I was listening to a few of the Q&As after it all calmed down with the leader of the house. A few questioned the ifs and buts of the next few days... When someone questioned that as the deal has been rejected, a no deal is off the table (as voted tonight) therefore the options are either an extension or revoking article 50. The leader of the house said that article 50 wil not be revoked as it would go against the will of the people, that the default legal option is still a no deal as tonight's vote was not legally binding.. Therefore we're pretty much looking at an extension with Europe's t&cs (possibly 2nd referendum etc) or Mays meaningless vote 3.0

    So to sum it up, she was saying that revoking article 50 is not something the government will do this side of the 29th...
    Of course if they get their extension and have a 2nd referendum it may be likely


  • #9734
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Flying Fox wrote: »
    DUP is mainly concerned with being treated the same as the mainland. I think they'd go for a soft Brexit or even potentially remain, if the only other option is the WA including the backstop.

    If this is the DUPs absolute red line, surely the ERG & the DUP have come to the parting of the ways if the WA in its current form is reluctantly accepted by the ERG? MV3 cant be voted through though by all the Tories coming together if the DUP votes against. Would Labour MPs in Leave constituencies break ranks to back the deal in this scenario I wonder?


  • #9735
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Have been following Sky News for the last few hours, no pint in watching BBC. Sky and panellists have made it clear that the 27 would have to agree and say it won't be got without a plan.


  • #9736
    jochenstacker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 390 ✭✭jochenstacker


    gooch2k9 wrote: »
    No deal is better than May's deal. Financially so for some I'd imagine.

    That's starting to look off the table.

    Saying that I wouldn't be surprised if they said this and reneged. Time would be up at that point.

    You'd imagine? Can you maybe underpin your imagination with some facts and figures?
    Because that is a clapped out old chestnut along the lines of "leave means leave".


  • #9737
    dresden8
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Another question.

    If the UK refuses to pay the 39 billion does responsibility for paying Farage's EU pension fall to the UK?


  • #9738
    Duane Dibbley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭Duane Dibbley


    briany wrote: »
    The more time Ireland has to prepare for Brexit, the better, so it's EU solidarity in terms of looking at Ireland's interest. If another EU country is willing to push the UK off the cliff, it is demonstrating that Brexit doesn't affect them so much. Such countries would do well to remember how badly Ireland is affected, and adjust their vote accordingly. This would be tangible EU solidarity, in contrast to the deal which is a bilateral thing with the UK, and cannot be guaranteed to be delivered.

    The more time we can give the UK to dangle and perhaps lose their nerve altogether, the better. This is in the entire EU's interest, especially a 2 year extension, say. The UK might be an irritating voice in the EU to some, but the also contribute a lot to the budget and add balance to the political landscape of the bloc, being more Euro-sceptic.

    The EU has been looking after Ireland’s interests. We had along with 26 other EU states , nearly 3 years to prepare for Brexit. What makes you think Ireland will prepare during the extension I’d we were incompetent not to start preparing before.

    Kicking the can down the road is not a solution.

    If the UK don’t have a sound plan by the 29th then move on as an EU27.


  • #9739
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,409 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Duane Dibbley wrote: »
    briany wrote: »
    The more time Ireland has to prepare for Brexit, the better, so it's EU solidarity in terms of looking at Ireland's interest. If another EU country is willing to push the UK off the cliff, it is demonstrating that Brexit doesn't affect them so much. Such countries would do well to remember how badly Ireland is affected, and adjust their vote accordingly. This would be tangible EU solidarity, in contrast to the deal which is a bilateral thing with the UK, and cannot be guaranteed to be delivered.

    The more time we can give the UK to dangle and perhaps lose their nerve altogether, the better. This is in the entire EU's interest, especially a 2 year extension, say. The UK might be an irritating voice in the EU to some, but the also contribute a lot to the budget and add balance to the political landscape of the bloc, being more Euro-sceptic.

    The EU has been looking after Ireland’s interests. We had along with 26 other EU states , nearly 3 years to prepare for Brexit. What makes you think Ireland will prepare during the extension I’d we were incompetent not to start preparing before.

    Kicking the can down the road is not a solution.

    If the UK don’t have a sound plan by the 29th then move on as an EU27.
    With a hard border?


  • #9740
    gooch2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭gooch2k9


    jochenstacker wrote: »
    You'd imagine? Can you maybe underpin your imagination with some facts and figures?
    Because that is a clapped out old chestnut along the lines of "leave means leave".

    Read the context. I thought it was fairly clear I was referring to their opinion on the deal. If not, consider that clarified. I'm a remainer. Voted so.

    If you're referring to the financial incentive of no deal for some, it would be naive in the extreme to think no one is benefiting from GBP moving around so much.


  • #9741
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,603 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Ok, I think that this is as good a point as any to bring Brexit thread VII to a close.

    Brexit thread VIII here:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057964116#

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Advertisement
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement