Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

Peter90 wrote: »

True, facts appear wrong, when the meat is taken off the bone there will be waste, retailer getting 50% I would believe this, no matter the product retailers are making 50% be it good, furniture, appliances it’s a 50% mark up on purchase price. I am all for an increase in price but we need to be realistic. Subsidies were put in place to provide the consumer with a cheap affordable meat. Surly it should be more subsidies we should be targeting. I have spoken to organisers of the beef plan, asked questions & received little or no answers suggested problems as we have been told was shot down accused of not reading the plan eventually not getting answers to my texts. Plan imo is set up to fail, refuse to send cattle,if it happens supplies get tight increase of say 10c on previous week, what is the man with say 30 head of cattle ready to send to the factory? Continue to hold out I think not 10c by 350kg Carcus x 30 cattle extra €1000 in his pocket, those that think this wouldn’t happen are being naive

Every farmer has their own priorities but if the above, in bold, is true, then that farmer with 30 Charolais bullocks, has serious problems if he/she needs to take the extra €1,000 (€30 a head) the factory are offering.

Should that farmer not be of the mindset - stick your €1,000 - considering how much it costs to get my Charolais bullocks ready for the factory, I should be getting e.g. €4.40 kg a head as opposed to €3.80 and gain an additional €6,000 (€180 a head)?

Seaba wrote: »

Every farmer has their own priorities but if the above, in bold, is true, then that farmer with 30 Charolais bullocks, has serious problems if he/she needs to take the extra €1,000 (€30 a head) the factory are offering.

Should that farmer not be of the mindset - stick your €1,000 - considering how much it costs to get my Charolais bullocks ready for the factory, I should be getting e.g. €4.40 kg a head as opposed to €3.80 and gain an additional €6,000 (€180 a head)?

It should but being realistic once prices rises farmers will think about themselves naturally and cash in, not saying cash in at a 10c increase necessarily but once prices increase cattle sent to factories will increase, if for arguments sake farmers held off for 1 month, & prices increased you now have 5 weeks worth of cattle ready & sent to factories prices will tjen drop, if factories don’t increase prices farmers will have to cave & send anyway due to age bonus’s and the price of keeping them

I think live export and a slaughter scheme for calves are the only long-term solution. But when the dept of agriculture help finance the ISPCA who in turn object to live exports and promote vegan-ism, you have to ask are we fighting a losing battle.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Where will the money come from. The EU is reducing the CAP budget every year. Our present subsidies are worth about 50% in real terms compared to 2002. Apart from that Glas is a mere shadow of REPS. In the mid noughties I drew about 5K from REPS for 7 yeras( bought a small bit of land so had to redo plan) today GLAs is worth about 1500 to me and the discussion group is 750. The costs in the mid noughties was about 600 euro once off and 50 a year to do SFP. At present DG is costing 120/year to vet over 1K to planner for plan and nutrient plan. Finally teagasc get 500/year for my DG and charge me another 200ish I think





Lads that talk about a calf slaughter scheme are STUPID, STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,

The reason I say thsi is the only winner will be the dairy farmer as it will put a floor of about 60-80 euro minimum on any calves.

And we will lose it will look brillant can you imagine Vegan and animal right group showing video's of calves being loaded on trailers and being unloaded into abatoirs and lads pulling and dragging the half dead ones. It will work real well for our dairy export image and our nice green beef image.

Allot of what we can't do there, but at least you gave us the why.
So is there anything we can do, anything that will work anyway in your opinion? Or should we just continue to take it up the ass until the last coloured cow is culled. And we present ourselfs humble and prostrated on the ground before our factory and retailer overlords?
I'd say I can nearly guess your anwser!

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

I wouldn't do a slaughter scheme rather a payment or top up scheme for every calf sold out of the country to exporters for dairy farmers, and a grant or tax relief of some sort to the exporters to help shift numbers. If you can squeeze the numbers a good bit it will have long lasting good hunger for our animals. No amount of protesting or holding cattle for a few weeks or sitting down talking to the factorys will work. Taking away the raw materials will.

The dariy farmer has enough dont ya think.
Only one fool in system is lad buying calves. Pays too much, exporter cant compete . simples

148multi wrote: »

I think live export and a slaughter scheme for calves are the only long-term solution. But when the dept of agriculture help finance the ISPCA who in turn object to live exports and promote vegan-ism, you have to ask are we fighting a losing battle.

Dept aren't obstructing live exports, thats just more barstool talk.
Plenty of exporters fecked off to some other country to get cheaper cattle even after they got their boat passed by Dept

Have ye seen Beef Prices across the rest of Europe? They ain't exactly buzzing.

https://www.bordbia.ie/industry/farmers/pricetracking/cattle/pages/selectedeuprices.aspx

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Have ye seen Beef Prices across the rest of Europe? They ain't exactly buzzing.

https://www.bordbia.ie/industry/farmers/pricetracking/cattle/pages/selectedeuprices.aspx

Ireland is 2nd lowest in most..

I’m surprised the factories are only getting 29%. Does that include the fifth quarter? Is it not the retailers that need to push back more of the profit to farmers? And a big help(which they have mentioned in their plan) would be sorting out all the stupid rules and regulations, like the movements, qps and age limits

pat73 wrote: »

I think your missing the point in my text,I have plenty 10 euro notes if u want some ,all these could add up to 400,00 euro.it isn't like we haven't seen an organisation representing farmers with people on huge wages doing very little.

Thsts right, so anyone but the ifa has to be worth a tenner...only reason they get my money is the (possibly useless) personal accident insurance inclided in the sub.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

At the end of the time the best solution is:

The setting up of producer's groups backed by legislation which is being proposed at EU level which will force processors to forward price cattle over a 3-4 months period.
The control of feedlots being directly controlled or contracted to processors being used as market controlling measure's. However even in the last few weeks an ex President of the IFA spoke against this.
The prevention of market control measure's used by processors to prevent the live trade in cattle.


After that it would be mainly up to market forces but these measure's would prevent processors manipulation of supplies

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Allot of what we can't do there, but at least you gave us the why.
So is there anything we can do, anything that will work anyway in your opinion? Or should we just continue to take it up the ass until the last coloured cow is culled. And we present ourselfs humble and prostrated on the ground before our factory and retailer overlords?
I'd say I can nearly guess your anwser!

Titanium I have quoted part of a post I already posted. Most people cannot understand what effect that producers groups would have on the market. The first thing is that all farmers would have access to forward pricing. So you could decide if it was profitable to hold or sell.

It would require farmers to educate themselves as well. You might make as much money selling in a trough or going into a trough rather than at a peak or hitting one. You could decide to house cattle and finish for Christmas if Autumn pricing was too poor.

At present processors use feedlots beef which is either contracted at higher prices than we are paid or is produced by there own directly controlled feedlots as a loss leader to use to control prices at peak times. If you can see prices 3-6 months in advance you can control your own supply, as well you can not produce if store price versus you costs and final price is not profitable.

This would prevent processors as well of dropping prices to anyone that had pre booked cattle maybe 2,3 or 4 months in advance. However there would still be a certain amount of selling on the day but these lads might be still hammered.

Take this summer If I had cattle pre booked for July in April processors would have to pay the price agreed at the time but if I had extra cattle I would have to take the spot price. The lads culling cows because of the drought would still have being hit hard but most specialists finishers would not have had there cull cow hit.

Contracted and controlled Feedlots are having a bigger and bigger impact on beef prices. Processors used them to back up supplied at certain times of year especially around Christmas and June. As well if supplies start to strenghten processors will kill all cattle in contracted and owned feedlots and back up supplies further to collapse the market.

Finally you have lads that pay too much to dairymen for calves. There is no reason that good Fr calves should not trade in the sub 100 euro mark and that HE and AA heifers be around the same. Lots of farmers buying direct from dairy men last spring paid 50-80 more than the mart trade. But then supid is what stupid dose.

Finally you have the amount of cattle that are finished on ration. Any weight gained by feed ration is at best low margin. Someone somewhere has to have lost for a lad to make a margin on these cattle and even then this margin is minimal. I have exited winter finishing as for the work and risk involved it was not worth my while.

alps wrote: »

Base.....sexed semen could lead to more dairy bull calves, or at least bull calves from the dairy herd.
Dairy replacememt rearing has become uneconomic. Dairy farmers will now inseminate with sexed female straws to get just about the minimum required replacement figure..app 20% and if male sexed beef semen became available, the rest will get that..

No after cows are inseminated for to breed replacement heifers bull will be ran with herd so as to have tight calving pattern

Mooooo wrote: »

Sexed semen is a a good bit away from being reliable with every batch so I don't think that it will come into it for a while. Know a few lads who pick up fr bulls to clean up as they can get 2 fr bulls for the price of an aa or HE and they factory the bulls then at the end of the summer.

Producer groups is likely the best way to deal with factories but they will have to be run properly

Is sexed semen better in the us

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Titanium I have quoted part of a post I already posted. Most people cannot understand what effect that producers groups would have on the market. The first thing is that all farmers would have access to forward pricing. So you could decide if it was profitable to hold or sell.

It would require farmers to educate themselves as well. You might make as much money selling in a trough or going into a trough rather than at a peak or hitting one. You could decide to house cattle and finish for Christmas if Autumn pricing was too poor.

At present processors use feedlots beef which is either contracted at higher prices than we are paid or is produced by there own directly controlled feedlots as a loss leader to use to control prices at peak times. If you can see prices 3-6 months in advance you can control your own supply, as well you can not produce if store price versus you costs and final price is not profitable.

This would prevent processors as well of dropping prices to anyone that had pre booked cattle maybe 2,3 or 4 months in advance. However there would still be a certain amount of selling on the day but these lads might be still hammered.

Take this summer If I had cattle pre booked for July in April processors would have to pay the price agreed at the time but if I had extra cattle I would have to take the spot price. The lads culling cows because of the drought would still have being hit hard but most specialists finishers would not have had there cull cow hit.

Contracted and controlled Feedlots are having a bigger and bigger impact on beef prices. Processors used them to back up supplied at certain times of year especially around Christmas and June. As well if supplies start to strenghten processors will kill all cattle in contracted and owned feedlots and back up supplies further to collapse the market.

Finally you have lads that pay too much to dairymen for calves. There is no reason that good Fr calves should not trade in the sub 100 euro mark and that HE and AA heifers be around the same. Lots of farmers buying direct from dairy men last spring paid 50-80 more than the mart trade. But then supid is what stupid dose.

Finally you have the amount of cattle that are finished on ration. Any weight gained by feed ration is at best low margin. Someone somewhere has to have lost for a lad to make a margin on these cattle and even then this margin is minimal. I have exited winter finishing as for the work and risk involved it was not worth my while.

In lamb producer groups there is no forward pricing why would there be forward pricing in beef ones?

charolais0153 wrote: »

In lamb producer groups there is no forward pricing why would there be forward pricing in beef ones?

The reason there is no forward pricing is because the Cartel decide that there is no forward pricing< that is why there is a requirement for legislation. There is forward pricing at present but it is only available to contracted feedlots.