IFA and Factory Bitching thread.

wrangler wrote: »

Most of it isn't, the finance problem would be an example of how few farmer reps gave a damn about the finances. so those that think we'd be worried about the levy are talking through their......
IFA should've closed the doors in 2015, no farmer should have to take that sh..., It was never dealt with properly, I left IFA because our own County wouldn't drive it on
As for Bord Bia, I apply for QA and pass , they won't fail you for stupid things like not dosing the cats. We're producing food and it's not right to think that the once in a lifetime BPS inspections are adequate.
Bord Bia brought lots of international customers here so I know they're working in our interest. For doing that I got free passes into Bloom or lunch tickets at the ploughing.
You probably know our Livestock Rep, Donal Kenny, do you think that if you had a problem that he wouldn't follow it up. I always did, to say that we didn't want to hear was more sh... There might a few interesting revelations if those people named the reps they're slandering
We had to be very careful about what we took on

All I know is that IFA have a terrible image with farmers. Whoever's fault that is I don't know but that ain't good for any organisation

Reggie. wrote: »

I rang bord bias office just now and asked them were they selling beef as quality assured even if the farmer doesn't get the qa payment for that animal, the reply was that board bia promote all Irish beef regardless of being qa and the qa payment is a factory policy and has nothing to do with board bia. I was told that the factories are a private company and can set there pricing structures anyway they want. I was also told board bia is out every day to farmers telling them they have nothing to do with the qa bonus payment. Another expamle of the factories telling farmers they need to be qa assured or they wont get to sell there beef with board bia

Info on bord bia this morning from the group

It’s a short-term game the factories are playing, sure they are making a killing at the minute but the pain and damage they are inflicting on farmers will simply lead to total disillusionment among beef farmers that will ultimately result in the next generation coming up not even contemplating taking the reins.....
The cheque in the post used to be enough to keep lads happy enough but with it been eroded every year through claw backs and inflation a point is being reached where the average beef farmer will simply just have to exit the business...
In 10 years time the beef industry and output of factories could be halved

Reggie. wrote: »

I rang bord bias office just now and asked them were they selling beef as quality assured even if the farmer doesn't get the qa payment for that animal, the reply was that board bia promote all Irish beef regardless of being qa and the qa payment is a factory policy and has nothing to do with board bia. I was told that the factories are a private company and can set there pricing structures anyway they want. I was also told board bia is out every day to farmers telling them they have nothing to do with the qa bonus payment. Another expamle of the factories telling farmers they need to be qa assured or they wont get to sell there beef with board bia

Info on bord bia this morning from the group

Bord bia promote Irish Food they don't sell it, supermarkets want QA not Bord Bia. Bord Bia is the auditing authority for QA And is respected as such.....It's really none of our business how processors sell their produce, if they specify QA you can chose not to supply them.
What do you think of that text, farmers should really try to get educated on the beef industry

wrangler wrote: »

Bord bia promote Irish Food they don't sell it, supermarkets want QA not Bord Bia. Bord Bia is the auditing authority for QA And is respected as such.....It's really none of our business how processors sell their produce, if they specify QA you can chose not to supply them.
What do you think of that text, farmers should really try to get educated on the beef industry

Main thing is bord bia do the inspection to be QA but the problem is that bord bia market the meat as QA and tge retailers sell it as QA even if the farmer doesnt get the QA payment

Reggie. wrote: »

Main thing is bord bia do the inspection to be QA but the problem is that bord bia market the meat as QA and tge retailers sell it as QA even if the farmer doesnt get the QA payment

Text says bb is marketing it regardless of QA, Processors can market non QA product as QA but the beasts tag Nn. is on the meat and all Tesco etc. have to do is check is the farmer is QA, Our lambs go to Belgium, and when I saw ours the barcodes are half inch longer than our lambs here such is the information demanded by Delhaze supermarkets over there.
And they can DNA then if they want.......wonder did they tell you that last night.
Lookit, farmers complaining about factories specifying QA would be the same as KM whingeing about you specifying three point linkage on your tractor...... it's that important
Bass said that from O= is entitled to bonus, but it's the factories perogative what they pay on.

wrangler wrote: »

Text says bb is marketing it regardless of QA, Processors can market non QA product as QA but the beasts tag Nn. is on the meat and all Tesco etc. have to do is check is the farmer is QA, Our lambs go to Belgium, and when I saw ours the barcodes are half inch longer than our lambs here such is the information demanded by Delhaze supermarkets over there.
And they can DNA then if they want.......wonder did they tell you that last night.
Lookit, farmers complaining about factories specifying QA would be the same as KM whingeing about you specifying three point linkage on your tractor...... it's that important
Bass said that from O= is entitled to bonus, but it's the factories perogative what they pay on.

Well that's the thing. Factories saying you have to be QA. Bord bia inspecting for the factories and then the factories saying you don't qualify for a bonus due to their own grading machines. Now if you can't see anything wrong there with that setup.

I have no connection to any parties in this as I'm a machinery man not a cattle man but I do look at things logically and the system is rife with self interests. I just went a long to support the group.

Figures last night for margins were
farmers 20%
processers 30%
retailers 50%

The farmers margin went from approx 40% in the mid nineties to 20% today. All this under the careful watch of the government bodies and the IFA. Now we all know that if the HSE had figures like that announced then you would be the first up here looking for someone to be burned at the stake. Something terribly wrong with the IFA if they allowed that to happen.

wrangler wrote: »

Papers full of the HSE again today, with good reason

https://www.bordbia.ie/industry/farmers/pricetracking/cattle/pages/prices.aspx

You have to be realistic too, these guys have to compete on international markets, I put up france because it's near England our nearest market

It didn't work but france is substantially cheaper until the glut hit here

So it's ok that farmers steadily lost 50% of their income over the last 20 years?

Your sounding like Leo now....."proccessors have to make a profit too". Now it's not going to effect me greatly but I do believe after last night that they have plenty of a margin to give some of it back to the main producer which has the animal for up to 2.5 years

Reggie. wrote: »

All I know is that IFA have a terrible image with farmers. Whoever's fault that is I don't know but that ain't good for any organisation

Who do these farmers think the IFA is? Some of whst I'm hearing about these meetings puts me in mind of the opening scenes of the life of Brian. "We're definitely not the united judean people's front, we really hate those bastsrds". I'm not a beef farmer or haven't been for a number of years but there was always a scarcity of them whenever I was doing my shift at factory gates at mad o'clock on a winters morning. If the beef plan crowd are going to achieve anything they're going to need a bigger response from beef farmers than the IFA ever managed to muster.

Base price wrote: »

Ah now that's a bit rich considering the IFA were collecting millions every year from the EIF levy - c. €4.7million in 2015 - when the majority of farmers were unaware of what it was for and who received 95% of the money as this information was hidden within their annual accounts

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/factory-levy-generates-up-to-half-of-ifa-income-1.2441191
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/ifa-to-stick-with-current-funding-model-of-levies/

Your 4.7m is approx €50 per member, not exactly a crime spree, Two farmers were national treasurers 2009 -2015 they should've flagged what was going on....get it, farmers. Farmers that other farmers thought they could depend on.
Any way other farmers let me down a lot worse
There was internal auditors and external auditors but nothing illegal was going on, Smith was being paid according to his initial deal. so it was up to National Treasurers to flag it
I could put up plenty here that was brought to my attention (even lately) apart from IFA that you wouldn't be proud of as a farmer but I wouldn't be that smallminded.
So get off the high moral ground

I’m supportive of the Ifa and the beef plan but have issues moreso with the beef plan. I don’t understand their aggression towards the Ifa. On it has nothing to do with their long term aim. Also giving out about dairy farmers is only alienating them. It’s not up to them to put the best beef bulls to their cows. The only way to make them do that is to reflect it in the price paid. I don’t think farmers understand how tied the Ifas hands are. The competition authority need to feel pressure to conduct inspections in the factories/retailers, and the only way to do that is to hound your local TDs. 86 points is crazy too. 12-15 points is loads and know them inside out so you can debate with anyone.
Now saying all that, the Ifa still haven’t recovered from the scandal and it will be hard to do so. It’s also understandable how they are seen as more a dairy organisation-the higher up in the organisation is more dairy farmers. One thing for the Ifa in my experience is they have contacts and know the rules and will help sort an issue if it’s not correct. If they lose their influence then it’s a bad day for farmers full stop.
The beef plan should be supported by everyone, and I will attend a meeting, if it gets something done then it benefits us all. I have two reservations though.
1. There are a lot more bigger farms/feedlots/winter finishers with big numbers of cattle now than say in the 90’s. If there is a big price rise in beef, it’s these big guys thst’ll Really win. And it will be a bittersweet victory for the small guy, he got what he wanted but still envious of the big guy.
2. I would have expected the beef plan membership to be a lot closer to 40k by now. To get 10k more will be harder, and harder again to get another 10k. I wish them well though.

farawaygrass wrote: »

I’m supportive of the Ifa and the beef plan but have issues moreso with the beef plan. I don’t understand their aggression towards the Ifa. On it has nothing to do with their long term aim. Also giving out about dairy farmers is only alienating them. It’s not up to them to put the best beef bulls to their cows. The only way to make them do that is to reflect it in the price paid. I don’t think farmers understand how tied the Ifas hands are. The competition authority need to feel pressure to conduct inspections in the factories/retailers, and the only way to do that is to hound your local TDs. 86 points is crazy too. 12-15 points is loads and know them inside out so you can debate with anyone.
Now saying all that, the Ifa still haven’t recovered from the scandal and it will be hard to do so. It’s also understandable how they are seen as more a dairy organisation-the higher up in the organisation is more dairy farmers. One thing for the Ifa in my experience is they have contacts and know the rules and will help sort an issue if it’s not correct. If they lose their influence then it’s a bad day for farmers full stop.
The beef plan should be supported by everyone, and I will attend a meeting, if it gets something done then it benefits us all. I have two reservations though.
1. There are a lot more bigger farms/feedlots/winter finishers with big numbers of cattle now than say in the 90’s. If there is a big price rise in beef, it’s these big guys thst’ll Really win. And it will be a bittersweet victory for the small guy, he got what he wanted but still envious of the big guy.
2. I would have expected the beef plan membership to be a lot closer to 40k by now. To get 10k more will be harder, and harder again to get another 10k. I wish them well though.

They're doing nothing until they have 40000...will we live that long :rolleyes:

farawaygrass wrote: »

I’m supportive of the Ifa and the beef plan but have issues moreso with the beef plan. I don’t understand their aggression towards the Ifa. On it has nothing to do with their long term aim. Also giving out about dairy farmers is only alienating them. It’s not up to them to put the best beef bulls to their cows. The only way to make them do that is to reflect it in the price paid. I don’t think farmers understand how tied the Ifas hands are. The competition authority need to feel pressure to conduct inspections in the factories/retailers, and the only way to do that is to hound your local TDs. 86 points is crazy too. 12-15 points is loads and know them inside out so you can debate with anyone.
Now saying all that, the Ifa still haven’t recovered from the scandal and it will be hard to do so. It’s also understandable how they are seen as more a dairy organisation-the higher up in the organisation is more dairy farmers. One thing for the Ifa in my experience is they have contacts and know the rules and will help sort an issue if it’s not correct. If they lose their influence then it’s a bad day for farmers full stop.
The beef plan should be supported by everyone, and I will attend a meeting, if it gets something done then it benefits us all. I have two reservations though.
1. There are a lot more bigger farms/feedlots/winter finishers with big numbers of cattle now than say in the 90’s. If there is a big price rise in beef, it’s these big guys thst’ll Really win. And it will be a bittersweet victory for the small guy, he got what he wanted but still envious of the big guy.
2. I would have expected the beef plan membership to be a lot closer to 40k by now. To get 10k more will be harder, and harder again to get another 10k. I wish them well though.

Good post. Very constructive and no BS. I dont agree with the dairy guy taking a beating either. He/she has to run their business also the best way possible. To be fair to the attitude towards the IFA is fair enough in my opinion. They have done sweet feck all for our side of the industry over the past number of years. Everything has been geared towards the expansion of dairy and the promotion of same. No shame in that either...BUT... beef farmers feel that they have been ignored. The IFA could and should have pushed a lot harder for transparency of the grading and trimming systems. They have taken enough out of our pockets through levies over the last number of years that they should have had their finger on the pulse. Its taken so much of a distrust in the IFA for beef farmers to start this movement. If nothing else beef farmers deserve a voice and if this is the start of it well im 100% behind it. A1 GC i will play the ball from now on. Hopefully he is holding it the next time.

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Good post. Very constructive and no BS. I dont agree with the dairy guy taking a beating either. He/she has to run their business also the best way possible. To be fair to the attitude towards the IFA is fair enough in my opinion. They have done sweet feck all for our side of the industry over the past number of years. Everything has been geared towards the expansion of dairy and the promotion of same. No shame in that either...BUT... beef farmers feel that they have been ignored. The IFA could and should have pushed a lot harder for transparency of the grading and trimming systems. They have taken enough out of our pockets through levies over the last number of years that they should have had their finger on the pulse. Its taken so much of a distrust in the IFA for beef farmers to start this movement. If nothing else beef farmers deserve a voice and if this is the start of it well im 100% behind it. A1 GC i will play the ball from now on. Hopefully he is holding it the next time.

Can't speak for any other meetings but the mullingar one had no dairy bashing in it. Only gripe was the government organisation's push for dairy expansion which flooded the factories with the AAx and the likes

Reggie. wrote: »

Can't speak for any other meetings but the mullingar one had no dairy bashing in it. Only gripe was the government organisation's push for dairy expansion which flooded the factories with the AAx and the likes

Farmers chasing the money brought the dairy expansion, beef farmers competing with exporters into unviable prices brought the dairy beef to irish factories.
Expecting dairy farmers to use anything only the best dairy genetics isn't realistic

wrangler wrote: »

Farmers chasing the money brought the dairy expansion, beef farmers competing with exporters into unviable prices brought the dairy beef to irish factories.
Expecting dairy farmers to use anything only the best dairy genetics isn't realistic

Not really I know many dairy farmers around you who teasgac are telling to expand as they have too much silage it SR is too low. They are refusing as they say it makes no sense but the issue is constantly pushed. Alot of lads levelling off at 100 cows