IFA and Factory Bitching thread.

amacca

wrangler wrote: »

The PMG would then be accused of taking brown envelopes from all over to let some farmers jump the queue at times of glut like we have at the moment.
Sounding familiar aren't I

You'd imagine a sufficiently transparent system could avoid such accusations.....

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

And then your mother would wake you for breakfast
And the processors would tell you where to stuff your producer groups, I know I would.
The PMG would then be accused of taking brown envelopes from all over to let some farmers jump the queue at times of glut like we have at the moment.
Sounding familiar aren't I

Again you let on to misunderstand the concept. IFA did not that is why they put a proposal that would have made it ineffectual. Processors would have no other access to cattle so they would have no other choice but to deal with these PMG's.

Processors could still set spec's and look for certain specs in cattle or type of cattle. However pricing would be always visible. However farmer would have to get to understand that cattle might have to be prices 2-3 weeks in advance. there might still be spot pricing but this would depend on the supply of cattle. But producer groups would prevent processors from controling the supply with contracted and owned feedlots.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Again you let on to misunderstand the concept. IFA did not that is why they put a proposal that would have made it ineffectual. Processors would have no other access to cattle so they would have no other choice but to deal with these PMG's.

Processors could still set spec's and look for certain specs in cattle or type of cattle. However pricing would be always visible. However farmer would have to get to understand that cattle might have to be prices 2-3 weeks in advance. there might still be spot pricing but this would depend on the supply of cattle. But producer groups would prevent processors from controling the supply with contracted and owned feedlots.

They'd just go to another country, There's no way an independent company would set up with that sh..e

Willfarman

wrangler wrote: »

They'd just go to another country, There's no way an independent company would set up with that sh..e

I’m not terribly sure any independent country would tolerate Goodman’s Criminality.

wrangler

Willfarman wrote: »

I’m not terribly sure any independent country would tolerate Goodman’s Criminality.

Seems to be doing alright all over

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Again you let on to misunderstand the concept. IFA did not that is why they put a proposal that would have made it ineffectual. Processors would have no other access to cattle so they would have no other choice but to deal with these PMG's.

Processors could still set spec's and look for certain specs in cattle or type of cattle. However pricing would be always visible. However farmer would have to get to understand that cattle might have to be prices 2-3 weeks in advance. there might still be spot pricing but this would depend on the supply of cattle. But producer groups would prevent processors from controling the supply with contracted and owned feedlots.

IFA are running an information meeting on producer groups early March, have legal opinion and all,
That's not new, Henry Burns always said at public meetings that they were there to help any group so I don't know where you get your information,
It's a long time since henry was representing us and no one bothered to start a group

TITANIUM.

wrangler wrote: »

IFA are running an information meeting on producer groups early March, have legal opinion and all,
That's not new, Henry Burns always said at public meetings that they were there to help any group so I don't know where you get your information,
It's a long time since henry was representing us and no one bothered to start a group

do it yourselfs lads, we'll give ye a bit of advice if ye want!
what leadership!!! they'd make Shakleton proud!

wrangler

TITANIUM. wrote: »

do it yourselfs lads, we'll give ye a bit of advice if ye want!
what leadership!!! they'd make Shakleton proud!

Too many farmers will say ''on with ya, I'll be right behind you'' which they won't be.
What's worse is that when it messes up, organisers will be blamed;

Like a child they'll appreciate it much more when they do it themselves.
You don't be representing farmers for 30 years and learn nothing

TITANIUM.

wrangler wrote: »

Too many farmers will say ''on with ya, I'll be right behind you'' which they won't be.
What's worse is that when it messes up, organisers will be blamed;

Like a child they'll appreciate it much more when they do it themselves.
You don't be representing farmers for 30 years and learn nothing

I can imagine,
I must say you really must have been let down bad to say that you are so Bitter and angry now, I'd go as far as to say your hoping farming and any move to invigorate it fail. youve said as much anyway. you seem to look up to the factories and the MI and down with sustain on your former peers. I think that's kinda sad really, but I guess the system eventually broke you (and we all have our breaking points) and left you so jaded. I'm sure you probably were a Goodman to have in your corner once upon a time.
and all this when you should be enjoying life a bit more.

as for myself, they asked for farmers support with the BPM, I heard them out. the plan doesn't sound perfect to me but tis at least a positive step. so I gave them my support and will continue to until it's either a resounding success or as you say it's buried by the meat industry.

charolais0153

TITANIUM. wrote: »

I can imagine,
I must say you really must have been let down bad to say that you are so Bitter and angry now, I'd go as far as to say your hoping farming and any move to invigorate it fail. youve said as much anyway. you seem to look up to the factories and the MI and down with sustain on your former peers. I think that's kinda sad really, but I guess the system eventually broke you (and we all have our breaking points) and left you so jaded. I'm sure you probably were a Goodman to have in your corner once upon a time.
and all this when you should be enjoying life a bit more.

as for myself, they asked for farmers support with the BPM, I heard them out. the plan doesn't sound perfect to me but tis at least a positive step. so I gave them my support and will continue to until it's either a resounding success or as you say it's buried by the meat industry.

^i hope no-one takes stuff posted on the internet to heart.

The bpm seem to have strayed drom the 86point plan a small bit tbh

Base price

charolais0153 wrote: »

How do producer groups work?

IMO beef producer groups will never work in Ireland.
Everyone knows someone on the inside track - you can skip the queue, get a few cents more/kg and look after your own interests.
Some call it cute hoorism but most of us would say that it's who we are.

wrangler

TITANIUM. wrote: »

I can imagine,
I must say you really must have been let down bad to say that you are so Bitter and angry now, I'd go as far as to say your hoping farming and any move to invigorate it fail. youve said as much anyway. you seem to look up to the factories and the MI and down with sustain on your former peers. I think that's kinda sad really, but I guess the system eventually broke you (and we all have our breaking points) and left you so jaded. I'm sure you probably were a Goodman to have in your corner once upon a time.
and all this when you should be enjoying life a bit more.

as for myself, they asked for farmers support with the BPM, I heard them out. the plan doesn't sound perfect to me but tis at least a positive step. so I gave them my support and will continue to until it's either a resounding success or as you say it's buried by the meat industry.

You see the support that BPM got at Backweston and they're supposed to be the messiah now........ farmers could've supported them with all the work they have put in over the last few months,
I recognise the main points of the plan from IFA five years ago so I suppose corley and Doyle copied and pasted, after all Doyle was supposed to have attended a livestock meeting to formulate a beef plan as their last IFA meeting.
Where it came from doesn't matter, to get a trick over IFA they have to deliver it but they can't be Underminig Brexit negotiationS

wrangler

charolais0153 wrote: »

^i hope no-one takes stuff posted on the internet to heart.

The bpm seem to have strayed drom the 86point plan a small bit tbh

It's a bit disappointing when saddos who never did anything for farmers criticise IFA because they didn't deliver Utopia.
Belittling all the schemes as if they they'd a god given entitlement to anything.
Saw this on Facebook
Below is a listof what the world owes you.














zilch

TITANIUM.

wrangler wrote: »

You see the support that BPM got at Backweston and they're supposed to be the messiah now........ farmers could've supported them with all the work they have put in over the last few months,
I recognise the main points of the plan from IFA five years ago so I suppose corley and Doyle copied and pasted, after all Doyle was supposed to have attended a livestock meeting to formulate a beef plan as their last IFA meeting.
Where it came from doesn't matter, to get a trick over IFA they have to deliver it but they can't be Underminig Brexit negotiationS

Undermining Brexit negotiations? ah come on now.
in terms of the support in Backseat in, that must have been a last minute decision to do that because it didn't go up on our group till the night before.

personally I think all this TB testing and 4 movements talk is grand but it's only beating around the Bush.
it's the price that's the problem. most 4 movements cattle would probably be up around to 30 month mark anyway so the movements don't matter at that stage.
lads wouldn't give a **** about movements so long as they were being paid enough for the cattle.

_Brian

wrangler wrote: »

You see the support that BPM got at Backweston and they're supposed to be the messiah now........ farmers could've supported them with all the work they have put in over the last few months,
I recognise the main points of the plan from IFA five years ago so I suppose corley and Doyle copied and pasted, after all Doyle was supposed to have attended a livestock meeting to formulate a beef plan as their last IFA meeting.
Where it came from doesn't matter, to get a trick over IFA they have to deliver it but they can't be Underminig Brexit negotiationS

Well there must be some dust on that plan from five years ago, because they certainly did nothing for beef farmers in the last five years.

wrangler

_Brian wrote: »

Well there must be some dust on that plan from five years ago, because they certainly did nothing for beef farmers in the last five years.

Beef farmers got their SFP defended, after all it was originally a cattle/sheep entitlement, Commisioner Ciolos met us at Ardee mart and told us that 30% of our allocation would go to eastern Europe and the rest would be divided across the board, we got the most of the 30% cut deferred and Got coveney to defer the ''convergence'', even yet it's not where Ciolos wanted it, so don't say they did nothing for beef farmers, There wasn't much sign of the wannabes when we were meeting rural TDs to impress on them that drystock farmers couldn't survive without their subsidies. We need them more now than 1990.
It was worth €50/lamb to me in 2012, about €40 now if I was still farming, so what is Corleys top up worth to him on every animal or any other beef farmer.
Then there's all the schemes, love em or hate em, farmers are taking full advantage of them .

wrangler

_Brian wrote: »

Well there must be some dust on that plan from five years ago, because they certainly did nothing for beef farmers in the last five years.

Just in case you think that IFA weren't onto department about trim and grading,
Here's part of the livestock report to AGM in Jan 2018......... long before BPM got off their butt.

Classification and Trim
IFA secured agreement from Minister Creed that up to 150
Department AOs will monitor carcase trim in the meat plants
on a constant basis from November, with full rollout in January
2019. IFA is also working to have new technology on lighting
and cameras introduced for mechanical classification and
increased supervision of carcase grading by the DAFM. IFA
highlighted the unacceptable breaches on carcase trim and
insisted on Minister Creed naming the meat plants involved.

I think those few lines shows the irrelevance of BPM
Corley would've known that was coming down the line, kinda shows them up for what they are
It wouldn't do you any harm to read all the reports, it'd give you an idea of the level of representation for a small membership cost

Sheep breeder

wrangler wrote: »

Just in case you think that IFA weren't onto department about trim and grading,
Here's part of the livestock report to AGM in Jan 2018......... long before BPM got off their butt.

Classification and Trim
IFA secured agreement from Minister Creed that up to 150
Department AOs will monitor carcase trim in the meat plants
on a constant basis from November, with full rollout in January
2019. IFA is also working to have new technology on lighting
and cameras introduced for mechanical classification and
increased supervision of carcase grading by the DAFM. IFA
highlighted the unacceptable breaches on carcase trim and
insisted on Minister Creed naming the meat plants involved.


I think those few lines shows the irrelevance of BPM
Corley would've known that was coming down the line, kinda shows them up for what they are
It wouldn't do you any harm to read all the reports, it'd give you an idea of the level of representation for a small membership cost

The AO wouldn’t be checking trim it would be TVi and vets.

Sheep breeder

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You always harp on about it but withdrawing supplies is not really an option. A nurse, a garda, a factory workers goes on strike there is extra work to be completed when they come back. Factory blockades and chaining supermarket trolly's are only photo opportunities. When farmers blockade a factory its back up cattle and processors can then use these to drop the price again.

The issue with grading machines is a disgrace in that the lads who advocated the system failed to put regulation and standardization in place. They also failed to see the way the beef market was going. When a sirloin or striploin from an R- and O- sit on a tray the weighting machine charges the same/kg. When you see what went on 12 months ago by IFA and the FJ with there save the sucker campaign where some were advocating increasing grid differentials and Cormac Healy was lapping it up it easy to see who understands the beef market. If these idiots got there was the UK supermarket beef would cheaper for the processors to buy.

What is need is producer groups and that the NSAI weight and measures takes over the checking and standardization of the machines. Standing outside a factory for a photo opportunity for Healy or McCorley is only stroking there ego's

Producer group will never work, for the simple fact guys will not stand together and you will have the big ifa jumping around when it suits them to Larry’s tune as he collects the gravy for them.look at the 4 movement rule that the ifa got in for to suit and use as a stick to beat beef men with when it suits the factory.
All they want is to keep the gravy coming in to fill the trough.

wrangler

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Producer group will never work, for the simple fact guys will not stand together and you will have the big ifa jumping around when it suits them to Larry’s tune as he collects the gravy for them.look at the 4 movement rule that the ifa got in for to suit and use as a stick to beat beef men with when it suits the factory.
All they want is to keep the gravy coming in to fill the trough.

That comment will illustrate to everyone why I have shag all sympathy for beef farmers, Despite how many times I say that the farmers on the livestock commitee don't give a sh..e about where the money comes from , [mod edit] 'people' come out with these comments, Childish comments,
Our lamb group has 120 members and only 3% are not QA. QA is easy money for doing what you should be doing anyway....good farming practise. Our members just get on with it, no whingeing.
I wouldn't eat lamb over six mths old, so that's my spec, if you don't want to supply that you can feck off, farmers can supply the spec, find someone who'll accept lesser quality or get out altogether

wrangler

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Undermining Brexit negotiations? ah come on now.
in terms of the support in Backseat in, that must have been a last minute decision to do that because it didn't go up on our group till the night before.

personally I think all this TB testing and 4 movements talk is grand but it's only beating around the Bush.
it's the price that's the problem. most 4 movements cattle would probably be up around to 30 month mark anyway so the movements don't matter at that stage.
lads wouldn't give a **** about movements so long as they were being paid enough for the cattle.

Did you not hear Sean ORourke talking to BPM during the week, firstly he saw through the whinge against IFA and secondly when BPM were asked was their little campaign a bit irrellevant against what's happening in the real world,
BPM rep said there's enough looking after that, Ireland will be looked after.
Like wtf, There's no country as vulnerable as Ireland in this mess unlees you#'re believing Coveney of course.
Beef Price is the price all over Europe and thats not going to change unless downwards

greysides

wrangler wrote: »

That comment will illustrate to everyone why I have shag all sympathy for beef farmers, Despite how many times I say that the farmers on the livestock commitee don't give a sh..e about where the money comes from , [mod edit] 'people' come out with these comments, Childish comments,

Mod:

Wrangler, You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.

Base price

The way the EIF levy is collected is under threat -

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/ifa-news/ifa-could-face-legal-challenge-on-levy-collection-system-37901654.html?fbclid=IwAR3jfZYRen_WoN92I3y-v3j2JwXEGbzGnYOFMiAtFDHQP4GWKQsuGhZv1Lc

wrangler

Base price wrote: »

The way the EIF levy is collected
is under threat -

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/ifa-news/ifa-could-face-legal-challenge-on-levy-collection-system-37901654.html?fbclid=IwAR3jfZYRen_WoN92I3y-v3j2JwXEGbzGnYOFMiAtFDHQP4GWKQsuGhZv1Lc

I wouldn't mind them prioritising those membersthat pay the levy but trying to get the names of those that don't pay the levy is a bit over the top. They just want a list of names to target
Same with getting the €70 discount on FBD if you even only allow IFA to phone you now.
Must be huge pressure for money now, I was surprised to see how much money is left even after all the hassle

Coolfresian

Base price wrote: »

The way the EIF levy is collected is under threat -

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/ifa-news/ifa-could-face-legal-challenge-on-levy-collection-system-37901654.html?fbclid=IwAR3jfZYRen_WoN92I3y-v3j2JwXEGbzGnYOFMiAtFDHQP4GWKQsuGhZv1Lc

Seen that this morning, have stopped all levies 5 years ago. Fully signed up member and paying membership fee but if they push to bring this in IL be cancelling membership subscription asap.

Fuxake

This is shocking and cannot possibly be legal under data protection laws, especially now that GDPR is in place. The fact that IFA are offering to indemnify levy collectors such as factories and marts suggests that both sides know full well that this is highly dodgy. I would be furious if any factory or mart supplied my personal details to IFA. Likewise, they can go to fook if they think I am signing any form which would in any way compromise my data protection rights. The levy is supposed to be voluntary and I will only do business with factories or marts that respect that.

wrangler

Fuxake wrote: »

This is shocking and cannot possibly be legal under data protection laws, especially now that GDPR is in place. The fact that IFA are offering to indemnify levy collectors such as factories and marts suggests that both sides know full well that this is highly dodgy. I would be furious if any factory or mart supplied my personal details to IFA. Likewise, they can go to fook if they think I am signing any form which would in any way compromise my data protection rights. The levy is supposed to be voluntary and I will only do business with factories or marts that respect that.

Could be BS too from the Indo, Creed had to apologise for the last accusation against the IFA. Wasn't it the Indo that reported that.

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

Could be BS too from the Indo, Creed had to apologise for the last accusation against the IFA. Wasn't it the Indo that reported that.

It was Creed who apologized remember.
From reading the article IFA is on dodgy grounds here. I have always disagreed with the levy from a beef point of view. The same turnover is levied 2-4 times. However that is beside the point. While the IFA can indemnify the collectors strictly from a legal view point if you knowingly break the law there is also a chance of a custodial sentence.

However as the law lecturer point out the sharing of personnel information is on an opt in basis not opt out basis. It's BS by the IFA wanting to represent people. They have the names of those who pay. It's starting to look at an attempt to run a protection racket

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It was Creed who apologized remember.
From reading the article IFA is on dodgy grounds here. I have always disagreed with the levy from a beef point of view. The same turnover is levied 2-4 times. However that is beside the point. While the IFA can indemnify the collectors strictly from a legal view point if you knowingly break the law there is also a chance of a custodial sentence.

However as the law lecturer point out the sharing of personnel information is on an opt in basis not opt out basis. It's BS by the IFA wanting to represent people. They have the names of those who pay. It's starting to look at an attempt to run a protection racket

I can't understand what they're at, they have legal advice there pretty much on site.
They should have a list of those who pay and look after them same as members, but there's no reason for them to have names of those that don't pay the levy.
They should now represent their members, and those that are not happy with them leave,
The way it's going now non members think they have a right to criticise. Hard enough to deal with whats coming at farmers now
€3.2m collected in levies,IFA must have enough support to run just as another farm organisation.

older by the day

IF A is a money making organisation, are they still against capping the SFP at 60000 euro. In case it might be shared out fairly??