Old Tool Restoration

I've taken a liking to these old Thomas Flinn saws. The handles are a great fit in my hands, so I picked up a 12" tenon saw to go with the 10" pistol grip dovetail saw above. That's rust, resin, oil and grime giving that almost black coating on the saw plate.



After some elbow grease and soaking the handle in meths and a rub down with steel wool, it looked like this:



Then stained the handle, a coat of shellac, cut back with 0000 and then some wax and new saw bolts from Flinn-Garlick. I like it. I'll touch up the teeth and set whenever I get to the other one.

I'm also delighted to be finished all the horse trading and to have assembled the set of Stanley bench planes I wanted. I've still a little work to do on the #6 and a bit of work on some of the totes and knobs, but it's a very solid set.

There's a #3, #4, #4 1/2, #5, #5 1/2, #6, #7 and a #10 carriage makers rebate plane there. I have a couple of others in reserve, but that's the set that will have dedicated spaces in the tool chest and cabinet.

Collibosher wrote: »

These were found among my fathers stuff, he inherited them from a relative of his who bought them new in the USA many years ago.

That’s a pretty valuable set (with good boxes and clear labels) but aside from that, a very useful thing to have and nice to have some family history. They’ll work with a Stanley 45, 55, the Record equivalent or with the Veritas Combination plane or Veritas Small Plow (their spelling, not mine!) with the wide conversion kit etc. A very tidy 45 from the UK including postage for about €100 would be a great addition if you don’t have one. They often come up without any cutters or the limited standard set. Thanks for posting!

Collibosher wrote: »

Thanks for the info, luckily there was the Stanley 55 plane there too.

That's a cracker.

‘Rare’ Stanley W4 hammer, 16oz Warrington pattern cross pein. That completes the set, from CP3.1/2 to W4. I rehandled it (bought as a head only) with a beautifully tight and straight grained piece of birch.

Here’s how they look awaiting paint.

Derusted and painted the bodies and then repaired some minor damage to the handles and stained those. I've given up trying to mask around the mating points on the body and frog when painting them. It's easier to just let the paint cure for a couple of days and then clean it off with a razor blade.

And a bit of a teaser.

This one is going to upset someone at some stage, as I'm going with the usual total refurb on it. Japanning is great, so no painting, but apart from that, it's getting 'the works'. No damage at all, apart from the broken tote. That looks like it'll repair nicely too as the break is clean and nothing is missing.

Yep. Shipped from the US, landed in for a shade under €140 all in.

magicbastarder wrote: »

for two planes? or more?

For the Stanley #2 on its own. A bargain price.

DubInMeath wrote: »

Were you over at makers central a few weeks ago in Birmingham, if so what did you think of the antique tools stand?

I wasn't there, no. I was browsing the list of exhibitors beforehand and saw that The Vintage Tool Co (started/owned by Ben Crowe from Crimson Guitars) were there. Is that who you're asking about? I've dealt with them a couple of times, but I'm unlikely to do so again unless they have something very specific that I want. Ben seems like a cool enough guy, a bit of a character, but the items I bought previously weren't as described. I dealt with them twice at the beginning of the year and in both cases they let themselves down.

I had to listen to an awful lot of BS and excuses from the guy who works for him (Jake) while he dicked around and delayed on sending my parcel for over a week. Looking over their ebay feedback that seemed somewhat common, along with people opening cases with ebay and the payment being returned by the seller as they couldn't locate the item. See for yourself.

It's also of interest to note that they've opened up a couple of additional ebay seller accounts and I'm not sure what good reason they'd have for doing that. They're all for the same Stalbridge seller location, trading under the same basic identity, but only one lists a company/business seller status. Just seems odd. They seem to sell some stuff 'sold as seen' on those accounts and given the items I received and how inspection showed up lots of problems an experienced vintage tool dealer absolutely would have spotted, I can't help but think that's a way to offload some ropey tat without creasing their feedback on the business listings.

I don't think Ben is much of a businessman and I think the guy who's working for him is keeping him in the dark on some things, just based on my own experience and the lines of horse-crap he tried feeding me.

Anyway, that's more than I planned to say about them. I'd buy from them via their company website, paying via paypal, but only for something I can't find anywhere else.

A few years ago I was passing Longford gaa pitch on the way home from mayo.
There was the tail end of a car boot sale on so I went for a look.
There was 2 lads with a stand selling only beautiful old tools.
Boxes and boxes of stuff, from the chat I had with them it was a full time gig. Buying in the UK and selling here.
They had an old machinests tool box full of stuff that I kinda regret not buying but all the stuff was in imperial and I only work in metric!
Anyone know them?

JayZeus wrote: »

I suppose I'm not really surprised. I think a lot of people who'd go to that show would be 'makers' as opposed to relatively well informed woodworkers specifically. I see nothing at all wrong with asking for €80-100 for a really well set up #4, 'tuned' correctly and ready to go without a minutes work being required. And I mean really well set up, better than new standard. But paying the exhibitor fees, travel, accommodation, wages, payment terminals, probably an add-on for liability insurance, printing and so on.. I can see how that would very quickly turn what should be a 20-25 quid 'user' plane (retail, from a business) into a need to scrape in as much as possible to have made the exhibition worthwhile. And as I said, I reckon some attendees would pay it because they know no better and the brand would reassure them it was okay to buy fairly blindly. Not smart as that kind of rip will cost them on their reputation.

I'd much rather deal with some of the decent guys (I assume) in Ireland who are fair and reasonably priced and know what they're at. Assuming the intention is to buy something without hidden damage or problems rendering the whole endeavour a waste of time and effort. Or arguably better still, just ask someone like Bob Leach to get you what you're looking for if you can't find it locally. He's a gentleman, pleasant and helpful to deal with and gives honest and open descriptions of what he sell, warts and all kind of thing. He's never failed to deliver what he says you're getting. He's also helped track down things for me within a couple of weeks as he's always in contact with dealers and collectors across the UK and can usually locate something without much trouble, from the kinds of folk who just don't do the ebay thing. I always enjoy reading his blog posts also as you get a sense he's really enthusiastic about what he's doing, not just spinning a yarn to flog you something: www.oldhandtools.co.uk/blog



That's it! I'm always on the lookout for #4's and #5's for small money like that. They're so plentiful that I get the feeling we'll never run out of them in our lifetimes.

Question for you fellas. Have you noticed the differences in English made Stanley castings down through the years? I've actually found that some of the very nicest of the 4/5's have been those made in the 1960's leading in to the early 1970s. Clean castings, often heavier/thicker, while being tidy around the raised Made in England and Bailey writing. Also something to keep in mind is that the much earlier #4 in particular is often shorter behind the frog than the later models. The result is that the pre-war/wartime #4 is actually very cramped to hold (3 in, 1 out etc) than the later ones. I have a couple of good examples here that I'll dig out and photograph for you tomorrow so you can see what I'm writing about. Mentioning it as I've not seen it noted anywhere else, but the eye nor the ruler lies that the difference is notable.

I actually noticed something like what your saying in Birmingham and on a new no4 I was looking at in mcquillans as they were the only place I have seen them, very uncomfortable to hold.

I wouldn't have the biggest hands in the world but can see the difference in using my dad's no4 and no5 1/2, but I still have the habit of pointing with the index of my right hand.

I have so little time recently to actually do some woodworking, that I can't really spend time to fix up anything and taking a chance on eBay, but hopefully that will change soon.

magicbastarder wrote: »

just checked what i have at the moment; two fours, and two 4.5s. however, one of the 4.5s is a modern one (plastic tote instead of wood), and one of the fours is a marples, not a stanley.

Do you find the no4 with the plastic comfortable to use, I didn't find it very comfortable to hold and couldn't imagine it to be for extended use.

That half hour normally turns into two+ days in my case.

In relation to the plastic handles, sure I would prefer wooden ones also but it's not a requirement. I just found the no4 with them uncomfortable and was just wondering what they were like to use for an actual piece of work. But again what might suit one person will suit another just fine in terms of feel, size etc.

Run of the mill #4 1/2 shaped pile of rust arrived yesterday evening.





Gave it the works, including paint.

stuchyg wrote: »

That came up lovely. Where are ye buying your old planes. Postage from eBay seems like mad money. Would like to get myself a no.5 if possible

Look at the price of a good quality #5 new. €150-400

I’d rather pay €60-70 including postage on a decent old Stanley ‘Bailey’ or equivalent Record and spend an hour or two getting it cleaned up and ready to use.

Don’t think about the postage on its own. Just think about what it will cost to have it in your hands and what the new alternatives are by comparison.

And don’t be in a rush. I bought a 4 1/2 for £12 last year and paid £16.50 for the postage. Expensive postage, yes. Expensive 4 1/2 at €34 in my hand? Nope. But you need to watch and wait for deals like that. I bought a good Stanley #4 for €3.20 earlier this year. Insane deals come up, but you have to be watching and waiting for them, which doesn’t work if you want one ‘now’.

stuchyg wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. I suppose addresspal is always an option too if postage is high. I don't necessarily need/want one now so I can keep an eye out. Is eBay the best place to watch?

Sorry for the delay. Busy day.

Have you a preference for a Stanley, Record or other brands? And are you ready to pick something up now, or just looking for general pointers? I have a few in my watchlist that I'd share with you if you're ready to grab something on ebay.

Which planes do you have already? I only ask as in my own opinion, if you have a need for a larger plane but don't want to go down the rabbit hole of buying a 'full set', a 5 1/2 is a cracking good plane and would be my recommendation over a 5, assuming you have a smoothing plane already.

The Address Pal or Parcel Motel type option is worth using alright.

stuchyg wrote: »

I'm not too fussed on brand, more the era for peace of mind over quality. Already have a smoothing plane so something for taking stock down, 5 and a half sounds ideal.

Not in a particular rush at the minute for anything, just general pointers on what to look out for

I might be repeating myself, I already know I probably am, but here goes with some general advice on buying old Stanley planes and what to consider:

English made Stanley planes are not inferior to US made ones, generally speaking. The internet are wrong in this regard, so ignore all the utter crap you'll read online and see in videos on youtube. The amount of third/fourth/fifth hand rubbish people go on with is misleading and serves nobody well. I write that as a keen enthusiast for the craft and for the tools we use to produce good work.

The 'Type 11/15/19' sort of stuff you read doesn't apply to Made in England Stanley planes. Stanley started in the UK in 1933 or so. All the 'type this and that' stuff is for US planes. In any case, who cares, right? I mean from a user perspective. The planes made in England included the sensible upgrades/changes incorporated in the early US planes as they evolved over 80 years or so before Stanley bought the works in England where they turned out these planes.

Pick a plane that doesn't have the reinforcing ribs cast into the sole and you're basically using something of a design and production standard as it was from the late 40's onwards. General rule of thumb stuff of course. But that's good enough for 'user' tools.

Don't buy a Stanley plane made in the last century that doesn't have 'Bailey' cast into the sole. Don't buy any bench plane made by Stanley that wasn't painted/japanned black in the first place. Grey 'Handyman' planes can sometimes be quite nice, I have a couple of 1960's ones which are nice despite the fact they're inferior on paper, but later maroon coloured ones are generally not worth the effort. In either case, a Bailey version is a nicer tool. I'd take a grey Handyman if it was free for a toolbox or van tool, but I would leave a maroon one where it was found, and only spend money to buy a Bailey.

The whole pre-war/post-war thing is also of little relevance except for collectors and to be very straight about it, I've had 1960's-1970's English made Stanleys that were much nicer tools to use than some pre-war US made ones. The castings were heavier/thicker for the sole for starters, wooden handles can almost always be very easily refined and refinished to better than new condition etc.

Again, Stanley specific, but if you can find a plane with a blade that doesn't have the text about grinding angles, that's the one to go for if you have a choice of two. The very latest blades (sold as spares) and the late model Stanley planes which had that text aren't up to the same standard as earlier blades. It's important to note that Record/Marples blades and chipbreakers include this text, and for that brand it's not a bad thing. But if it's Stanley brand, I'd look for an older blade instead.

Black plastic handles on Stanleys are not nice. Give it a miss and look for another plane instead. Brown 'resin' type handles are actually nice, IMHO. They take a crapload of abuse, don't raise blisters any quicker than wooden handles will and if you give them a light rub with 0000 steel wool, you can shellac and/or wax them and your hands won't be able to tell the difference between them and wooden handles.

If you find a plane with wooden handles and the rear tote has been cracked and glued, I'd recommend taking the tote off and ensure it was glued properly and that the threaded rod can be removed. I've found some real bodge jobs to repair rear totes, including epoxy bonded to the threaded rod preventing the handle from being tightened or removed from the sole. Careless repairs mean your options are limited and in many cases you'll end up with a spare parts donor rather than a restoration project.

If you find an otherwise complete plane with the handles are fecked, check out the Crown Tools replacement handle set, priced most keenly from either Ray Iles or Flinn-Garlick in the UK. Nicely made and can be fitted to a 3/4/5/6/7 (and half sizes) with a little light work to shorten the front lower of the rear tote on the short planes. They work well and can really 'make' a refurbishment project.

Speaking of refurbishment stuff.. Don't buy a shiny plane unless you're spending plenty of money on it and buying from a 100% positive feedback seller. If it looks like it ever came close to a wire wheel, buy something else. If it's listed as 'fully restored' and you see anything about it that isn't, buy something else. Too many butchers out there watching some YouTube videos and messing up planes by taking lazy shortcuts and using power tools to do what can be accomplished with just a little time and some careful effort. Better to buy a completely intact, untouched but rusty looking plane, jammed up with shavings and old sawdust under the frog and chipbreaker, with a clean break in the tote and missing some paint than buy something some goon has wrecked in the process of doing a piss-poor resto job on it.

In a nutshell (on this point), if it's Made in England, Stanley 'Bailey', has wooden handles, brass adjuster wheel and barrel nuts, doesn't have ribs in the sole casting and doesn't have 25/30 degree text on a Made in England Stanley blade, it's going to be a perfectly fine tool and can be somewhat easily made to work and look really well in equal measures.