Blades??

GreeBo · 08-11-2019 11:45am

Par72 wrote: »

I'm a fairly successful golfer who thinks that "grooving the feeling" is thing, I consider myself to be a feel player. I don't know what every professional golfer whose livelihood depends on it does, nor indeed do you.

Indeed I don't, but I have never heard or seen any evidence of any professional golfer practicing with old clubs to improve their game. (I dont count a youtuber as a professional golfer in this context)

Again, why dont we see the pros on the range with old hogans or tour strikers? If it helped at all, I'm pretty sure you would see the guys who depend on their golf to make a living using them.
Sure Harrington straps half a tennis ball under his foot, wears a lyrca swing shirt and yet you dont see him doing it!

I would also distinguish between "grooving the feeling" and being "a feel player"
I play many shots by feel, but other than hitting the 100th pitch shot closer than the previous 99 on the practice range, I dont think I am grooving anything.

The feedback from modern, cavity backed clubs is limited - this is the point which you seem to disagree with?

The ball is the #1 source of feedback for me, it only does what the club tells it to do.
There is enough feedback from any club to tell you if you hit it on the heel, toe, low or high.
I dispute that
a) using a blade will tell you if you were .5 or .7 of cm from the sweetspot and b) in any case, using a blade will help you reduce that .7 down to .5 any more than any other club would.

MarcusP12 · 08-11-2019 2:12pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Indeed I don't, but I have never heard or seen any evidence of any professional golfer practicing with old clubs to improve their game. (I dont count a youtuber as a professional golfer in this context)

Again, why dont we see the pros on the range with old hogans or tour strikers? If it helped at all, I'm pretty sure you would see the guys who depend on their golf to make a living using them.
Sure Harrington straps half a tennis ball under his foot, wears a lyrca swing shirt and yet you dont see him doing it!

I would also distinguish between "grooving the feeling" and being "a feel player"
I play many shots by feel, but other than hitting the 100th pitch shot closer than the previous 99 on the practice range, I dont think I am grooving anything.

The ball is the #1 source of feedback for me, it only does what the club tells it to do.
There is enough feedback from any club to tell you if you hit it on the heel, toe, low or high.
I dispute that
a) using a blade will tell you if you were .5 or .7 of cm from the sweetspot and b) in any case, using a blade will help you reduce that .7 down to .5 any more than any other club would.

At this stage, and no disrespect as you are completely entitled to your opinion, but I think you are completely missing the point or at least mine (endorsed by coincidence by the YouTuber pro)....you’re suggesting that the idea is non sense because you don’t see pros doing this but there’s nothing in the YouTube video I posted which was saying that he himself was going to use this approach...he was suggesting that his viewers (assumed to be regular golfers of all abilities) could do worse than practicing over the winter with hard to hit clubs as this on the range would likely benefit their performance going forward if they stick with it....I also don’t think there’s any suggestion by myself or your man that people should play blades instead of GI irons full time, just to practice with them to the benefit of your overall ball striking...the principal being that if you can hit a blade half decent, then you’ll hit a GI type more forgiving iron much better that you OTHERWISE would....

Anyway, no ones forcing this down anyone’s throat as the be and end all of improving....it was an idea I’ve had for a very long time and since I’ve gotten back into golf after a long sabbatical, I just thought I’d throw it out there.....some people will think it’s non sense outright, others might think it’s unlikely to work but worth a go for the craic, and others, like the pro I posted the video of, thinks it would be good to try....I dunno about you guys but if a club pro thinks it’s a good idea then there much be something in it for someone....even to the point where it might be worth a punt..

GreeBo · 08-11-2019 2:56pm

MarcusP12 wrote: »

At this stage, and no disrespect as you are completely entitled to your opinion, but I think you are completely missing the point or at least mine (endorsed by coincidence by the YouTuber pro)....you’re suggesting that the idea is non sense because you don’t see pros doing this but there’s nothing in the YouTube video I posted which was saying that he himself was going to use this approach...he was suggesting that his viewers (assumed to be regular golfers of all abilities) could do worse than practicing over the winter with hard to hit clubs as this on the range would likely benefit their performance going forward if they stick with it....I also don’t think there’s any suggestion by myself or your man that people should play blades instead of GI irons full time, just to practice with them to the benefit of your overall ball striking...the principal being that if you can hit a blade half decent, then you’ll hit a GI type more forgiving iron much better that you OTHERWISE would....

Anyway, no ones forcing this down anyone’s throat as the be and end all of improving....it was an idea I’ve had for a very long time and since I’ve gotten back into golf after a long sabbatical, I just thought I’d throw it out there.....some people will think it’s non sense outright, others might think it’s unlikely to work but worth a go for the craic, and others, like the pro I posted the video of, thinks it would be good to try....I dunno about you guys but if a club pro thinks it’s a good idea then there much be something in it for someone....even to the point where it might be worth a punt..

I'm not saying it's nonsense because you dont see pros using it, I'm saying its nonsense AND you dont see Pros doing it

Practicing with hard to hit clubs, on your own, is going to lead to swing compromises in a desperate effort to hit the ball remotely properly.
Could a scratch golfer benefit from this...possibly, but only if the clubs are the same spec as his own.
So far everyone has ignored the question of why you would train yourself to swing clubs that are a totally different setup than your own? Heavier, different flex, etc, etc
How can this help you swing your own clubs better?
As I said, you *might* learn to hit the middle of blade (with compromises) but then your own clubs are completely different so you are worse off than before!

benny79 · 08-11-2019 3:56pm

Someone made a point earlier of there just being toe, centre, and heel strikes believe it or not there is different variances of toe and heel strikes and centre strikes (how far up the grooves) although the margins are small.

MarcusP12 · 08-11-2019 4:33pm

GreeBo wrote: »

I'm not saying it's nonsense because you dont see pros using it, I'm saying its nonsense AND you dont see Pros doing it

Practicing with hard to hit clubs, on your own, is going to lead to swing compromises in a desperate effort to hit the ball remotely properly.
Could a scratch golfer benefit from this...possibly, but only if the clubs are the same spec as his own.
So far everyone has ignored the question of why you would train yourself to swing clubs that are a totally different setup than your own? Heavier, different flex, etc, etc
How can this help you swing your own clubs better?
As I said, you *might* learn to hit the middle of blade (with compromises) but then your own clubs are completely different so you are worse off than before!

Why are you suggesting that a scratch golfer might benefit from this but not a mid handicapper for example and why are you assuming that someone trying this might not try to match the same spec as their own? Surely a scratch golfer has less to benefit from this cuz they're em, a scratch golfer and have less room for improvement! Maybe i'm not delving as forensically into the theory of it as you but I'm struggling to see how it can't help an average golfer if they stuck at it. It purely aimed at the strike so I can understand the rational of using the impact tape (which are pricey by the way!) instead but I don't see how it could possibly screw up your swing like you suggest. In the same way you absolutely can't see how it could work, I equally can't see how it might not.

Its almost reaching the point where i'm going to go ahead and source a couple of decent blades to try it out JUST to prove that its possible since you don't have any personal evidence to suggest its not, just "theory":rolleyes::)

GreeBo · 08-11-2019 8:48pm

benny79 wrote: »

Someone made a point earlier of there just being toe, centre, and heel strikes believe it or not there is different variances of toe and heel strikes and centre strikes (how far up the grooves) although the margins are small.

True there are, but the difference is minimal and couple that with a humans inability to have a swing repeatable to those levels, I think its a moot point.

i.e.
We are talking about differences of less than 5mm, no matter how good you are you are going to have a margin of error on your strikes of 5mm so whats the point?

MarcusP12 wrote: »

Why are you suggesting that a scratch golfer might benefit from this but not a mid handicapper for example and why are you assuming that someone trying this might not try to match the same spec as their own? Surely a scratch golfer has less to benefit from this cuz they're em, a scratch golfer and have less room for improvement!

I said a scratch golfer *might* because the blades they use would be likely much closer to the clubs they actually play with. They also have a much better, more repeatable swing which is far less likely to require compromises to actually get the ball airborne with a blade.

Your average 18+ handicap golfer isnt going to have the skill, speed or ability to get a 5i blade off the ground with any degree of repeatability...thats why we have GI irons etc.

i'm not delving as forensically into the theory of it as you but I'm struggling to see how it can't help an average golfer if they stuck at it. It purely aimed at the strike so I can understand the rational of using the impact tape (which are pricey by the way!) instead but I don't see how it could possibly screw up your swing like you suggest. In the same way you absolutely can't see how it could work, I equally can't see how it might not.

I dont think I'm being forensic at all tbh, to me its obvious

It could screw up your swing because, even if you somehow managed to pickup a set of clubs with the exact same specs as your own clubs (which I think is highly unlikely) you will end up decelerating to trying and find the middle since the cost of missing the middle is so high with blades.

Its almost reaching the point where i'm going to go ahead and source a couple of decent blades to try it out JUST to prove that its possible since you don't have any personal evidence to suggest its not, just "theory":rolleyes::)

Fire away mate, no skin of my nose.
I'd be interested to know how you plan on proving that anything you did with a blade was the definitive source of any improvement compared to say the extra hours of practice, but it makes no odds to me.
I'd argue the fact that no professional golfer on the planet does it is large point in my favour, versus one nobody on youtube trying to gain subscribers who are desperate for the next easy fix.

Do let us know how you get on, can't wait to hear how your St Patricks Cup goes

Par72 · 08-11-2019 8:54pm

Well I am actually a scratch golfer and feel that I could benefit from practicing with blades. I never suggested that these blades should have a completely different shaft/swing weight/grip/shaft length/whatever than my other clubs.

GreeBo · 08-11-2019 9:07pm

Par72 wrote: »

Well I am actually a scratch golfer and feel that I could benefit from practicing with blades. I never suggested that these blades should have a completely different shaft/swing weight/grip/shaft length/whatever than my other clubs.

Great, so what clubs do you use at the moment and what are the chances of you picking up a cheap, old set of blades that match them for lie, loft, swing weight, shaft etc, etc?

Par72 · 08-11-2019 9:15pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Great, so what clubs do you use at the moment and what are the chances of you picking up a cheap, old set of blades that match them for lie, loft, swing weight, shaft etc, etc?

I currently use a set of Ping irons that would be classified as game improvement. I got fitted for them last year and told the fitter I didn't have any brand loyalty/bias that I just wanted whatever I get the best results from. I imagine it would be tricky enough to find a set of cheap, old blades with the exact same spec. but it shouldn't be too difficult to find some with similar enough spec.

GreeBo · 08-11-2019 9:19pm

Par72 wrote: »

I currently use a set of Ping irons that would be classified as game improvement. I got fitted for them last year and told the fitter I didn't have any brand loyalty/bias that I just wanted whatever I get the best results from. I imagine it would be tricky enough to find a set of cheap, old blades with the exact same spec. but it shouldn't be too difficult to find some with similar enough spec.

It is tricky alright, I'm "lucky" that I have two sets of clubs, both TM RAC one in MB and one in OS, both from the same year, but even so they are very different to swing, the MB feels much heavier due to the solid head, also the shafts are stiff metal compared to regular graphite on the OS..so two very different sets of identical clubs!

#
/edit
i played the MB for years and hit them well, but I still gained yardage and swing speed when I switched to the OS as I was swinging so far within myself with the MB just to increase the chances of a good strike that even when I middled it, it was at 70% swing.

coddlesangers · 11-11-2019 5:51pm

Gonna chime in with a small observation. In any athletic activity, you can train improve your ability to perform an everyday task by doing a much more difficult version of the same task. In golf, you see this often with putting, using a ball size hole as a training aide which makes putting into a regular size hole like putting into a bucket. You fine tune your precision on short puts very quickly using this method.

I believe the blades would help in a similar way. I have an old set of titleist tour model blades from 1985, which i replaced with some DCI 990's, due to be replaced shortly as well. I still use the sandwedge from the original set of tour model blades, and i have the 1, 5 and 7 iron in my locker. I LOVE taking them for a spin on the practice area to see how i'm striking it. I get a great confidence booster from taking out the blades and making a nice contact, it shows me that i'm in general in good shape.

I dont see what bad thing can happen by having a few bladed irons in your kit bag, similar to putting into a small hole every now and again or any other practice variant that challenges you. The biggest challenge to an amateur improving is lack of enthusiasm around practice, anything that makes it more fun and therefore has you doing more of it I'd encourage! I'd second everything everyone else has said about using tape to see where you are striking it, and also that if your ONLY objective is to improve your iron strike, then this is NOT the way to do it in the shortest possible time.

GreeBo · 12-11-2019 12:10am

Using a smaller hole to practice is totally different than using blades, you wouldnt try to improve your putting my using a stick instead of a putter.

You make the target harder to achieve but still doing the same activity, in soccer you practice free kicks with a bigger wall or smaller goal, but you are still using a football, you don't change to a rugby ball even though that would be much harder.

Anyway, I'm out of this conversation at this point; anything that gets you playing more golf is a good thing, but just do it with your own clubs!

Blades??

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