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Blades??

  • 25-10-2019 1:43pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭ MarcusP12


    Howya lads....I've recently started playing a bit more having been on a sabbatical from the game for a few years...i'd consider myself half decent but lack the consistency to get to say single figures....just thought I'd throw something to the floor to get people's opinions on something that I've long thought of as a quirky practice plan....

    I was toying with the idea of picking up a cheap/old set of blades or players irons to practice with. You'd pick up a quality set of mizuno's for example for around 150 quid. The theory is that if you can get a more consistent strike rate playing with blades, then that will translate into much better consistency with the more forgiving "competition" irons. Does that make any sense? Or just try to improve with the irons I have somehow? I play Cobra F8 for reference. I like the feel off them but think I could be getting more from them.....I've always fancied seeing how I went with blades but wouldn't risk investing big in a set...but would be tempted to buy an older set to practice to see if my overall game could improve...

    Interested in people's views....


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭ RoadRunner


    I think it's a good idea. I'd make sure to keep similar (or the same!) shafts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,929 ✭✭✭ spacecoyote


    Why would you spend 150 on a set of clubs to improve your strike?

    150 on lessons would likely get your strike into a much better place.

    If you want it, I'll give you a single bladed iron? I have an old mizuno 6-iron blade. PM me and if its convenient to get to you, I'm happy to pass it on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,816 ✭✭✭ whizbang


    MP-32.. No matter how worn and battered. They will teach you what a good strike should feel like.
    And punish you for a bad one.

    Best lesson ever.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭ MarcusP12


    whizbang wrote: »
    MP-32.. No matter how worn and battered. They will teach you what a good strike should feel like.
    And punish you for a bad one.

    Best lesson ever.

    Yeah that’s kind of how I imagine it would be....when I strike the f8s well they feel lovely as they’re forged but forgiving.....the theory would be that if I can train myself to gain a decent level of consistency with an unforgiving set of clubs where u don’t mind how u play then when it comes to playing with the more forgiving clubs, you’ll benefit from the work with the less forgiving clubs....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭ MarcusP12


    Why would you spend 150 on a set of clubs to improve your strike?

    150 on lessons would likely get your strike into a much better place.

    If you want it, I'll give you a single bladed iron? I have an old mizuno 6-iron blade. PM me and if its convenient to get to you, I'm happy to pass it on

    Hey thanks for the offer! I’ll get back to you on that but very generous of you...

    Completely take your point on the lessons....I’ve never really bothered with lessons to be honest....I don’t really have the time to work on major changes and risk losing my game in the meantime...I work near a driving range so hitting a few balls at lunch time is handy for me....I think I have a decent swing but I’m inconsistent.....playing a set where I can’t get away with the slight off centre shots would be interesting to see if I could get some memory muscle from a more focused approach that you’d need with blades....just toying with the concept and curious of people’s opinions....I’m a bit of pulling the trigger on a set yet...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,308 ✭✭✭✭ prawnsambo


    MarcusP12 wrote: »
    Hey thanks for the offer! I’ll get back to you on that but very generous of you...

    Completely take your point on the lessons....I’ve never really bothered with lessons to be honest....I don’t really have the time to work on major changes and risk losing my game in the meantime...I work near a driving range so hitting a few balls at lunch time is handy for me....I think I have a decent swing but I’m inconsistent.....playing a set where I can’t get away with the slight off centre shots would be interesting to see if I could get some memory muscle from a more focused approach that you’d need with blades....just toying with the concept and curious of people’s opinions....I’m a bit of pulling the trigger on a set yet...
    Sounds like lessons would be what you need tbh. Inconsistency is usually a sign that you don't have a repeatable swing and lessons will fix that for you. Yes it will take time to bed iin, but it will be worth it and you'll have a better understanding of what's going wrong.


  • Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭ rooney30


    Not really convinced of the logic of this . Not even sure if the tour pros play with true blades in the traditional sense anymore . I know Adam Scott does , one of the most talented ball strikers of our time .. would practicing with a small headed 1970s driver improve your driving ? Not sure
    A bad strike with a modern iron will still give you a less than ideal outcome, you still know it’s a bad strike . A bad strike with a blade just gives you an outcome that is worse
    As said before lessons lessons lessons


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭ MarcusP12


    rooney30 wrote: »
    Not really convinced of the logic of this . Not even sure if the tour pros play with true blades in the traditional sense anymore . I know Adam Scott does , one of the most talented ball strikers of our time .. would practicing with a small headed 1970s driver improve your driving ? Not sure
    A bad strike with a modern iron will still give you a less than ideal outcome, you still know it’s a bad strike . A bad strike with a blade just gives you an outcome that is worse
    As said before lessons lessons lessons

    Not looking for validation, just people’s opinions so I’m happy enough to get negative feedback.....what I will say is that if anyone practiced enough with a 70’s driver and got to say a 5/6 out of 10 standard, I’m pretty sure that would bump up to 8/9 out of ten standard with a modern driver transferred with the same swing memory...

    maybe it’s pie in the sky stuff but I think it would be fun trying out a good set of cheap blades and making adjustments (I like to think I understand my swing reasonably well) and seeing if that translates to better play with my f8’s...it might even have a placebo affect to try something different...

    re lessons, I watched my buddy get a few and have his swing reconstructed and he’s in the horrors at the moment...I don’t think my swing is too bad and when I hit a bad one, I tend to understand what I’ve done wrong...(eg weight transfer, set up etc)....so I don’t think I need lessons for my level...maybe if I got back to my previous standard it might be worth considering to break through to the next milestone....


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,308 ✭✭✭✭ prawnsambo


    MarcusP12 wrote: »
    re lessons, I watched my buddy get a few and have his swing reconstructed and he’s in the horrors at the moment...I don’t think my swing is too bad and when I hit a bad one, I tend to understand what I’ve done wrong...(eg weight transfer, set up etc)....so I don’t think I need lessons for my level...maybe if I got back to my previous standard it might be worth considering to break through to the next milestone....
    As a matter of interest, did you think your buddy needed lessons?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭ MarcusP12


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    As a matter of interest, did you think your buddy needed lessons?

    It’s not for me to say to be honest....I mean he’s always been a decent player but I think he’s regressed and thinks too much about his swing now since he’s gotten the lessons but that’s just my opinion...i think he just wanted to improve to a new level and felt a pro could fast track that....I’m sure for plenty of people there’s value to be gotten out of going to a pro even if it means taking a few steps back to take more forward but I personally don’t think I play enough to justify the time, effort and money to do a major overhaul that could “potentially” break me through to another competency level...wacky blades plan aside, for me, if I was able to put in the time and effort simply into the short game I could genuinely take half a dozen shots off my handicap over time and there’s no pro that can teach me that I don’t think...I understand the mechanics, I just dont get to practice enough....


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,506 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Benicetomonty


    rooney30 wrote: »
    Not really convinced of the logic of this . Not even sure if the tour pros play with true blades in the traditional sense anymore . I know Adam Scott does , one of the most talented ball strikers of our time .. would practicing with a small headed 1970s driver improve your driving ? Not sure
    A bad strike with a modern iron will still give you a less than ideal outcome, you still know it’s a bad strike . A bad strike with a blade just gives you an outcome that is worse
    As said before lessons lessons lessons

    Actually surprising how many in the top 10 are giving up all that forgiveness. Tiger, Rory, DJ, JT and Rose play pure blades from at least 5 iron up. Rest of them have the next best thing; small, forged heads the order of the day! Must be something to em..


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,929 ✭✭✭ spacecoyote


    MarcusP12 wrote: »
    Hey thanks for the offer! I’ll get back to you on that but very generous of you...

    Completely take your point on the lessons....I’ve never really bothered with lessons to be honest....I don’t really have the time to work on major changes and risk losing my game in the meantime...I work near a driving range so hitting a few balls at lunch time is handy for me....I think I have a decent swing but I’m inconsistent.....playing a set where I can’t get away with the slight off centre shots would be interesting to see if I could get some memory muscle from a more focused approach that you’d need with blades....just toying with the concept and curious of people’s opinions....I’m a bit of pulling the trigger on a set yet...

    If you don't have major time for lessons you could maybe try look at Adam Youngs Strikeplan.

    Its an online course/set of drills designed purely to improve strike. Hes not trying to change tour swing, just work on strike with the swing you have. Chances are your swing would change anyway

    If you have easy range access you could get practicing his drills quickly & easily.

    Think he will put deals up for people subscribed to his email distribution regularly enough, so you might be able to get it at a discounted rate.

    Probably cheaper than a ton of lessons, so might be a compromise for you. Buy your cheap blades, get his strike course & get nest of both worlds


  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭ trigger26


    Had a good year in golf this year, knocked a few shots off but I was never happy with my irons, I never felt confident of where they were going where as I do with my driver. I bought a second hand set of mizuno jpx 850 with the same idea op, I want to improve my ball striking and feel the ball more off the face. I got a lesson also recently and was surprised how in to out my swing plane was, suspected it but never wanted to admit as it would take work to change.
    The irons are working well, I’m not hitting them as far as previous set(1 club more needed now) but I like that I need to swing better and when I do I get more rewards. Working on changing my swing then over the winter, I’m not enjoying that part as it feels awkward but gonna stick with it, having a high floaty shot I think is better than low hooky one


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    Not sure I get this logic.
    Unless you are saying that you can't tell a bad strike with your current clubs?
    Otherwise you are already getting all the feedback you need so what will smaller headed clubs actually give you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭ MarcusP12


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Not sure I get this logic.
    Unless you are saying that you can't tell a bad strike with your current clubs?
    Otherwise you are already getting all the feedback you need so what will smaller headed clubs actually give you?

    Well at the risk of repeating myself, the theory is that if you play with blades, you won’t get away with off centre or poor strikes so if you practice and improve your consistency using these blades and become a good player with blades, this will translate into being a really good player with the more forgiving game improvement clubs. Obviously getting lessons can help most people but this was just something I thought would be an interesting way of getting out of my comfort zone and figuring things out for myself without the crutch of forgiving clubs....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭ MarcusP12


    trigger26 wrote: »
    Had a good year in golf this year, knocked a few shots off but I was never happy with my irons, I never felt confident of where they were going where as I do with my driver. I bought a second hand set of mizuno jpx 850 with the same idea op, I want to improve my ball striking and feel the ball more off the face. I got a lesson also recently and was surprised how in to out my swing plane was, suspected it but never wanted to admit as it would take work to change.
    The irons are working well, I’m not hitting them as far as previous set(1 club more needed now) but I like that I need to swing better and when I do I get more rewards. Working on changing my swing then over the winter, I’m not enjoying that part as it feels awkward but gonna stick with it, having a high floaty shot I think is better than low hooky one

    Good luck with the restructuring...you sound like you have a similar mindset so good to hear you’re getting results....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭ MarcusP12


    If you don't have major time for lessons you could maybe try look at Adam Youngs Strikeplan.

    Its an online course/set of drills designed purely to improve strike. Hes not trying to change tour swing, just work on strike with the swing you have. Chances are your swing would change anyway

    If you have easy range access you could get practicing his drills quickly & easily.

    Think he will put deals up for people subscribed to his email distribution regularly enough, so you might be able to get it at a discounted rate.

    Probably cheaper than a ton of lessons, so might be a compromise for you. Buy your cheap blades, get his strike course & get nest of both worlds

    That’s interesting thanks....I’ll look into it...I watch a lot of YouTube stuff on technique but would be interesting to have the swing analysed also...I have taken a few videos of my swing from different angles and it’s interesting to review it against what pros would teach as best practice....what I’d like to do is build up a few swing videos whereby the outcome is different, ie compare a good swing whereby I nailed a drive against one where I didn’t do a good swing and the result was poor...I wonder if I could get the young fella to come along for a session on the range and do the honours! I’m sure he could be bought easily enough!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,564 ✭✭✭ Russman


    MarcusP12 wrote: »
    Well at the risk of repeating myself, the theory is that if you play with blades, you won’t get away with off centre or poor strikes so if you practice and improve your consistency using these blades and become a good player with blades, this will translate into being a really good player with the more forgiving game improvement clubs. Obviously getting lessons can help most people but this was just something I thought would be an interesting way of getting out of my comfort zone and figuring things out for myself without the crutch of forgiving clubs....

    Please don’t take any of this the wrong way,
    Honestly, I don’t buy into that theory. Now, by all means, if hitting blades is an itch you need to scratch, fire away, but really, I don’t see any benefit. For a start, why wouldn’t you want to practice with your gamer clubs ?
    The difference between a good strike and one slightly off center is so small, there’s no way one can improve it by “focusing” more on strike with a blade. Personally I think the real benefit of cavities is on the shots that are just a tiny bit off center rather than the ones that are right out near the edge and I think most of us amateurs will always have that normal variation in strike, no matter how good we are. Making swing changes is great and can help, but there’s always going to be mish1ts, however slight.
    I think a change in mindset from regarding cavities as a crutch to just thinking of them as your clubs would be better.
    Perhaps a custom fit for your irons regarding lie and length might help with those couple of mm off centre ?

    I should probably take heed of my own advice tbh !! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭ MarcusP12


    Russman wrote: »
    Please don’t take any of this the wrong way,
    Honestly, I don’t buy into that theory. Now, by all means, if hitting blades is an itch you need to scratch, fire away, but really, I don’t see any benefit. For a start, why wouldn’t you want to practice with your gamer clubs ?
    The difference between a good strike and one slightly off center is so small, there’s no way one can improve it by “focusing” more on strike with a blade. Personally I think the real benefit of cavities is on the shots that are just a tiny bit off center rather than the ones that are right out near the edge and I think most of us amateurs will always have that normal variation in strike, no matter how good we are. Making swing changes is great and can help, but there’s always going to be mish1ts, however slight.
    I think a change in mindset from regarding cavities as a crutch to just thinking of them as your clubs would be better.
    Perhaps a custom fit for your irons regarding lie and length might help with those couple of mm off centre ?

    I should probably take heed of my own advice tbh !! :D

    Hey no worries at all! I posted originally looking for people’s thoughts, good or bad, not to be patted on the back for coming up with some new innovative approach to practice...you could well be right in what you’re saying and one part of me says that I should be trying to get better with the perfectly good irons I have...but to be fair I’m a long way off buying these practice irons anyway...I think I’d end up buying a scotty Cameron putter sooner than the irons at this rate depending on the way the wind is blowing! Ha!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,564 ✭✭✭ Russman


    MarcusP12 wrote: »
    Hey no worries at all! I posted originally looking for people’s thoughts, good or bad, not to be patted on the back for coming up with some new innovative approach to practice...you could well be right in what you’re saying and one part of me says that I should be trying to get better with the perfectly good irons I have...but to be fair I’m a long way off buying these practice irons anyway...I think I’d end up buying a scotty Cameron putter sooner than the irons at this rate depending on the way the wind is blowing! Ha!

    Just thinking, maybe buy some impact tape and over the course of a few practice sessions see just how you are actually striking it - before dropping a large wedge of coin on new irons.

    FWIW I played blades from the time I was a junior (there really wasn’t anything else, blades or Ping Eye 2 !) but had my lightbulb moment about 15 years ago when using my dads cavity back irons a few times just for the heck of it - imho the benefits of a bit of forgiveness far, far outweigh any perceived drawbacks.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭ MarcusP12


    Russman wrote: »
    Just thinking, maybe buy some impact tape and over the course of a few practice sessions see just how you are actually striking it - before dropping a large wedge of coin on new irons.

    FWIW I played blades from the time I was a junior (there really wasn’t anything else, blades or Ping Eye 2 !) but had my lightbulb moment about 15 years ago when using my dads cavity back irons a few times just for the heck of it - imho the benefits of a bit of forgiveness far, far outweigh any perceived drawbacks.

    Yeah not a bad idea alright with the tape...I’ve heard of foot spray being used also.....it sounds like we were juniors in the same era...I was playing ping zings as a junior and was using them until I decided to completely re furnish my bag when I decided to get more into it again...was always good with the irons but since the change to the f8s, I find I’m not as confident with them...tend to hit a lot of heavy shots that I never did before...but on plus side, I’ve worked the driver into my game so rarely hitting much less than an 8 or 9 into most par 4s....


  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭ trigger26


    For me hitting with cavity’s gave little feedback and never felt like I could control direction as much, with the blades is the opposite. I’m all for technology helping but at this stage I’d like to get my swing as good as possible and leave room for technology when my game starts to fade


  • Registered Users Posts: 636 ✭✭✭ Par72


    I think it might be a worthwhile exercise to practice with a blade. I don't think I'd go out and buy a set specially maybe just pick up one mid-range iron.

    I actually have a set of old Maxfli Australian blades that belonged to my Dad. I think I will stick a new grip on maybe the 6 or 7 iron and give it a go.


  • Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭ coddlesangers


    I'm all for experiments like the above to help groove your strike - but you should if you can at least try and roughly match the shaft of your experimental blade up with the shaft of your regular irons. Be aware also that the lofts will be very different as well, for reference I'm looking to change irons at the moment and did a table up showing the difference between my old irons (DCI 990) and the new titliest series I'm looking at - its as much as 6 degrees difference from olden days to todays lofts.. these are all from 4 iron up..

    DCI 990 25° 28° 32° 36° 40° 44.5° 49°
    T-100 24° 27° 30° 34° 38° 42° 46° 50°
    T-200 21° 24° 27° 30° 34° 38° 43° 48°
    AP3 718 22° 25° 28° 31° 35° 39° 43° 48°


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭ irish bloke


    I'm all for experiments like the above to help groove your strike - but you should if you can at least try and roughly match the shaft of your experimental blade up with the shaft of your regular irons. Be aware also that the lofts will be very different as well, for reference I'm looking to change irons at the moment and did a table up showing the difference between my old irons (DCI 990) and the new titliest series I'm looking at - its as much as 6 degrees difference from olden days to todays lofts.. these are all from 4 iron up..

    DCI 990 25° 28° 32° 36° 40° 44.5° 49°
    T-100 24° 27° 30° 34° 38° 42° 46° 50°
    T-200 21° 24° 27° 30° 34° 38° 43° 48°
    AP3 718 22° 25° 28° 31° 35° 39° 43° 48°

    I bet the guy with the T-200 irons hits it a mile:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    MarcusP12 wrote: »
    Well at the risk of repeating myself, the theory is that if you play with blades, you won’t get away with off centre or poor strikes so if you practice and improve your consistency using these blades and become a good player with blades, this will translate into being a really good player with the more forgiving game improvement clubs. Obviously getting lessons can help most people but this was just something I thought would be an interesting way of getting out of my comfort zone and figuring things out for myself without the crutch of forgiving clubs....

    The problem I see with this idea is, tbh, that I dont see how it can work.
    All that will happen is your scores will be worse when you play with blades.

    As I asked earlier, can you don't differentiate a bad shot from a good one with your current clubs?
    If you can, then you already have all the feedback you need when you are practicing. If you can't, then that's a different problem!

    Couldnt you achieve the same thing without the extra variable of different clubs by just using some impact tape on your actual clubs?

    I don't see forgiving clubs as a crutch, they just help you to have the best score possible, which is the aim of the game.

    Put it another way, are you also going to go back to a Greg Norman style McGregor driver? :)


    /edit I see Russman beat me to it with the impact tape!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭ Montgolfier


    GreeBo wrote: »
    The problem I see with this idea is, tbh, that I dont see how it can work.
    All that will happen is your scores will be worse when you play with blades.

    As I asked earlier, can you don't differentiate a bad shot from a good one with your current clubs?
    If you can, then you already have all the feedback you need when you are practicing. If you can't, then that's a different problem!

    Couldnt you achieve the same thing without the extra variable of different clubs by just using some impact tape on your actual clubs?

    I don't see forgiving clubs as a crutch, they just help you to have the best score possible, which is the aim of the game.

    Put it another way, are you also going to go back to a Greg Norman style McGregor driver? :)


    /edit I see Russman beat me to it with the impact tape!

    Yes get a McGregor driver use it to groove your swing. Golf equipment today is too light, they say it's to increase the speed through the ball but the last set of irons I bought z785s 110g shafts it through my timing way out.
    Blades especially an old set mizuno with s300 shafts will certainly help with timing in your swing. You could always get something in between like mp33 to have the best of both worlds.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    Yes get a McGregor driver use it to groove your swing. Golf equipment today is too light, they say it's to increase the speed through the ball but the last set of irons I bought z785s 110g shafts it through my timing way out.
    Blades especially an old set mizuno with s300 shafts will certainly help with timing in your swing. You could always get something in between like mp33 to have the best of both worlds.

    If you switch clubs to ones that have a different weight then of course its going to take some getting used to, but that doesnt mean that lighter = bad or heavier = good. It just means you were used to lighter.

    You can swing lighter clubs faster than heavier ones, thats just a fact.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭ Montgolfier


    GreeBo wrote: »
    If you switch clubs to ones that have a different weight then of course its going to take some getting used to, but that doesnt mean that lighter = bad or heavier = good. It just means you were used to lighter.

    You can swing lighter clubs faster than heavier ones, thats just a fact.

    Fair point lighter clubs are faster but there is a point of diminishing returns and weight affects rhythm and timing like throwing a stone there's usually an optimum weight that's suits each person.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    Fair point lighter clubs are faster but there is a point of diminishing returns and weight affects rhythm and timing like throwing a stone there's usually an optimum weight that's suits each person.

    Well I can swing an alignment stick faster than any club in my bag, sure it feels a bit weird, but thats only becuase its different to what Im used to.
    Give me a couple of weeks and I reckon I would be fine, assuming flex, kick-point etc were the same.


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