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Blades??

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2

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    #32
    Montgolfier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭Montgolfier


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Well I can swing an alignment stick faster than any club in my bag, sure it feels a bit weird, but thats only becuase its different to what Im used to.
    Give me a couple of weeks and I reckon I would be fine, assuming flex, kick-point etc were the same.

    Challenge accepted 🀣😂🀣


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    #33
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Montgolfier wrote: »
    Challenge accepted ������

    Well I went from D3 to D1 swing weight and dropped 4 shots about 2 years ago...
    while also going from stiff steel to regular graphite :)


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    #34
    ShivasIrons
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭ShivasIrons


    GreeBo wrote: »
    If you switch clubs to ones that have a different weight then of course its going to take some getting used to, but that doesnt mean that lighter = bad or heavier = good. It just means you were used to lighter.

    You can swing lighter clubs faster than heavier ones, thats just a fact.


    It's not a fact that you can swing lighter clubs faster then heavier ones, there's research to show this is not true.


    If it was true you should be able to swing a piece of string faster then anything.


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    #35
    Montgolfier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭Montgolfier


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Well I went from D3 to D1 swing weight and dropped 4 shots about 2 years ago...
    while also going from stiff steel to regular graphite :)

    The swing weight is a ratio of weight. As you can have 2 clubs one that weighs 200g the other 700g but both D1


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    #36
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    ShivasIrons wrote: »
    It's not a fact that you can swing lighter clubs faster then heavier ones, there's research to show this is not true.
    Can you link to any of this research?
    If it was true you should be able to swing a piece of string faster then anything.

    If you can show me the club that's made from your piece of string then I'll talk about it, until then I'll just point out that you can indeed swing a piece of string *very* fast if it has a little bit of weight on the end of it, yo-yos anyone?


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    #37
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Montgolfier wrote: »
    The swing weight is a ratio of weight. As you can have 2 clubs one that weighs 200g the other 700g but both D1

    True, but it was the closest stat I could find to illustrate the difference between my two sets of clubs, other than getting out the weighing scales!
    But also, more importantly its a measure of how heavy a club feels to the player, which I believe was your point about rhythm and timing?
    In your example of 200g vs 700g but both D1, would you expect that to also impact your rhythm and timing?


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    #38
    MarcusP12
    Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭MarcusP12


    GreeBo wrote: »
    The problem I see with this idea is, tbh, that I dont see how it can work.
    All that will happen is your scores will be worse when you play with blades.

    As I asked earlier, can you don't differentiate a bad shot from a good one with your current clubs?
    If you can, then you already have all the feedback you need when you are practicing. If you can't, then that's a different problem!

    Couldnt you achieve the same thing without the extra variable of different clubs by just using some impact tape on your actual clubs?

    I don't see forgiving clubs as a crutch, they just help you to have the best score possible, which is the aim of the game.

    Put it another way, are you also going to go back to a Greg Norman style McGregor driver? :)


    /edit I see Russman beat me to it with the impact tape!

    I certainly wouldn't experiment with the driver side of things! Let me explain the concept in another way...to me it could like learning to ride a bike....you start off with stabilizers and you get used to the technique of cycling but the stabilizers compensate your lack of balance as you're learning...so you decide to take the stabilizers off and at the start you fall quite a bit but because you don't have the safety net of the stabilizers, you focus on the things you need to and eventually you can ride a bike perfectly without the stabilizers....its just a simple analogy to compare how it might work by practicing with blades and then gaming the slightly more forgiving clubs....its just something i thought might be fun to try out and maybe all your counter points would be right but sure what harm in trying something different.....

    I think part of me likes the idea of testing myself with players irons and getting competent enough to shape the ball, which I can do a bit but don't think I'm consistent enough to put into practice and the scores count...


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    #39
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    MarcusP12 wrote: »
    I certainly wouldn't experiment with the driver side of things! Let me explain the concept in another way...to me it could like learning to ride a bike....you start off with stabilizers and you get used to the technique of cycling but the stabilizers compensate your lack of balance as you're learning...so you decide to take the stabilizers off and at the start you fall quite a bit but because you don't have the safety net of the stabilizers, you focus on the things you need to and eventually you can ride a bike perfectly without the stabilizers....its just a simple analogy to compare how it might work by practicing with blades and then gaming the slightly more forgiving clubs....its just something i thought might be fun to try out and maybe all your counter points would be right but sure what harm in trying something different.....

    I think part of me likes the idea of testing myself with players irons and getting competent enough to shape the ball, which I can do a bit but don't think I'm consistent enough to put into practice and the scores count...

    Ah I get the concept of it, I just think that you get all the feedback you need today, from your current clubs, without any of the drawback of terrible shots (your poor shots today will be awful shots with blades!)

    Spend a month with some impact tape and see how bad things are today...maybe things are already pretty good and you just need clubs that suit you better?

    Maybe things are terrible and blades are the last thing you need?

    You can shape the ball with pretty much any clubs, sure it might be a little easier with clubs that are less "get it up in the air at all costs", but if I can move it with these shovels, you can with yours!


    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7bdnjFLa1rHPjxo5gb22fKPKOHhhxEWpdyV6YJca00L2LJgxI&s


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    #40
    MarcusP12
    Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭MarcusP12


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Ah I get the concept of it, I just think that you get all the feedback you need today, from your current clubs, without any of the drawback of terrible shots (your poor shots today will be awful shots with blades!)

    Spend a month with some impact tape and see how bad things are today...maybe things are already pretty good and you just need clubs that suit you better?

    Maybe things are terrible and blades are the last thing you need?

    You can shape the ball with pretty much any clubs, sure it might be a little easier with clubs that are less "get it up in the air at all costs", but if I can move it with these shovels, you can with yours!


    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7bdnjFLa1rHPjxo5gb22fKPKOHhhxEWpdyV6YJca00L2LJgxI&s

    Yeah the impact tape is worth a go...where does a man get such a THING? McGuire, American golf? To be honest it's probably a bad time of year To be experimenting as in not sure if I'll even get out on the course again before the end of the year, whatever about the driving range....i think my irons are fine, they're cobra f8s...theres a lovely feel to them....i found I was hooking them a lot but then I changed the ball position on the shorter irons last time out and that seemed to work like a dream but haven't been out since to see if that's sorted anything out for me...they don't have as chunky a look to them as say my old zings...i think I'm still getting used to them....era the whole blade thing is just a crazy idea in my head...im a bit of a procrastinator so I'm far from pulling the trigger on anything....i just like hearing people's thoughts and opinions at the very least....


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    #41
    Montgolfier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭Montgolfier


    https://youtu.be/LylihTkNZzU


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    #42
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Montgolfier wrote: »
    https://youtu.be/LylihTkNZzU
    Disregarding the fact that I wouldn't class that as "research", he clearly says "lighter and faster", i.e. lighter leads to faster.

    I don't think anyone was arguing about whats better or worse, just that lighter = faster.


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    #43
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    MarcusP12 wrote: »
    Yeah the impact tape is worth a go...where does a man get such a THING? McGuire, American golf? To be honest it's probably a bad time of year To be experimenting as in not sure if I'll even get out on the course again before the end of the year, whatever about the driving range....i think my irons are fine, they're cobra f8s...theres a lovely feel to them....i found I was hooking them a lot but then I changed the ball position on the shorter irons last time out and that seemed to work like a dream but haven't been out since to see if that's sorted anything out for me...they don't have as chunky a look to them as say my old zings...i think I'm still getting used to them....era the whole blade thing is just a crazy idea in my head...im a bit of a procrastinator so I'm far from pulling the trigger on anything....i just like hearing people's thoughts and opinions at the very least....

    You can buy rolls of the stuff from ebay, or more expensively from mcguirks or halpenny.

    one thing I found (and still find) is that when I'm swing my MBs I subconsciously slow down my swing to try and get more control (since a miss-hit is so bloody painful, literally and figuratively!)

    The stats show that distance is king and (assuming any decent sort of strike) speed is the biggest factor controlling distance.


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    #44
    ShivasIrons
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭ShivasIrons


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Can you link to any of this research?



    If you can show me the club that's made from your piece of string then I'll talk about it, until then I'll just point out that you can indeed swing a piece of string *very* fast if it has a little bit of weight on the end of it, yo-yos anyone?




    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/is-your-golf-shaft-robbing-you-of-yards


    As for the OP he's correct, blades will make you strike the ball better


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    #45
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    ShivasIrons wrote: »
    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/is-your-golf-shaft-robbing-you-of-yards
    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/lighter-is-better-equipment-qa

    Right back at ya.

    ShivasIrons wrote: »
    As for the OP he's correct, blades will make you strike the ball better

    Ah ok then, case closed I guess.:rolleyes:


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    #46
    Montgolfier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭Montgolfier


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Disregarding the fact that I wouldn't class that as "research", he clearly says "lighter and faster", i.e. lighter leads to faster.

    I don't think anyone was arguing about whats better or worse, just that lighter = faster.

    Well the thread is about blades and will they improve your game. I think it's fair to say they will in the sense they will create more awareness on strike.
    Lighter is faster but heavier carries a lot of mass into the ball. Also the extra weight will build muscles in all the right places.
    Its not for everyone you may just want to play golf and enjoy it but some people may have the interest to refine their swing with old blades just for the feedback it gives. No wrong answers here just opinions.


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    #47
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Montgolfier wrote: »
    Well the thread is about blades and will they improve your game. I think it's fair to say they will in the sense they will create more awareness on strike.
    And this is the bit I disagree with.
    You already get feedback on the quality of the strike, what you dont get it the poor outcome. But its not like you arent aware of a poor strike.

    Use you stabilizers example, you are proposing that you learn to ride a bike without stabilizers so that you get the feedback of falling off.
    I'm proposing that you learn with stabilizers, you still get the feedback but you dont fall off.
    Lighter is faster but heavier carries a lot of mass into the ball. Also the extra weight will build muscles in all the right places.

    If you are trying to build muscle then head to the gym tbh, its the proven way.
    Its not for everyone you may just want to play golf and enjoy it but some people may have the interest to refine their swing with old blades just for the feedback it gives. No wrong answers here just opinions.

    I'm very interesting in refining my swing, based on feedback, I just dont think you need blades to do that.

    tbh I think its a romantic idea that has no basis in fact :):o


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    #48
    Montgolfier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭Montgolfier


    GreeBo wrote: »
    And this is the bit I disagree with.
    You already get feedback on the quality of the strike, what you dont get it the poor outcome. But its not like you arent aware of a poor strike.

    Use you stabilizers example, you are proposing that you learn to ride a bike without stabilizers so that you get the feedback of falling off.
    I'm proposing that you learn with stabilizers, you still get the feedback but you dont fall off.



    If you are trying to build muscle then head to the gym tbh, its the proven way.


    I'm very interesting in refining my swing, based on feedback, I just dont think you need blades to do that.

    tbh I think its a romantic idea that has no basis in fact :):o

    Well I'm glad one of us is right.


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    #49
    Par72
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Par72


    GreeBo wrote: »
    And this is the bit I disagree with.
    You already get feedback on the quality of the strike, what you dont get it the poor outcome. But its not like you arent aware of a poor strike.


    Have you seen those things you attach to your putter face that prevent the ball from going towards the target unless you hit the ball off the sweetspot? That's along the lines of practicing with a blade in my opinion. Generally speaking the area on cavity-back, game improvement irons where you can hit the ball and still get a decent result is way larger than it is on a bladed iron. It is also not always easy to feel if you have hit the ball off the sweetspot of the face with cavity backs.

    I think that if I practised hitting shots with a club that has a small sweetspot (ie a bladed iron), I would be able to tell immediately if I was hitting it off the middle or not. With this instant feedback I would work to hit the ball off the sweetspot and groove that feeling. The presumption would be that when I go back to practicing and playing with the forgiving cavity backs I would be hitting the ball more to the middle of the club and would be avoiding those dull, not-quite-off-the-centre shots.


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    #50
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Par72 wrote: »
    Have you seen those things you attach to your putter face that prevent the ball from going towards the target unless you hit the ball off the sweetspot? That's along the lines of practicing with a blade in my opinion. Generally speaking the area on cavity-back, game improvement irons where you can hit the ball and still get a decent result is way larger than it is on a bladed iron. It is also not always easy to feel if you have hit the ball off the sweetspot of the face with cavity backs.

    I think that if I practised hitting shots with a club that has a small sweetspot (ie a bladed iron), I would be able to tell immediately if I was hitting it off the middle or not. With this instant feedback I would work to hit the ball off the sweetspot and groove that feeling. The presumption would be that when I go back to practicing and playing with the forgiving cavity backs I would be hitting the ball more to the middle of the club and would be avoiding those dull, not-quite-off-the-centre shots.

    If you can't tell a miss hit from a good strike then there are other problems involved, you yourself go on to call them "full, not quite of the centre shots" so clearly you are already getting all the feedback you need?

    Also do you really not think that if "grooving the feeling" was a thing, the professional golfern whose livelihood depends on it would be doing it?

    Why isn't every Pro using the tour striker training aid? Surely that's better again then using blades?


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    #51
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Montgolfier wrote: »
    Well I'm glad one of us is right.

    Discussion over then huh?:confused:


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    #52
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭Russman


    Par72 wrote: »
    Have you seen those things you attach to your putter face that prevent the ball from going towards the target unless you hit the ball off the sweetspot? That's along the lines of practicing with a blade in my opinion. Generally speaking the area on cavity-back, game improvement irons where you can hit the ball and still get a decent result is way larger than it is on a bladed iron. It is also not always easy to feel if you have hit the ball off the sweetspot of the face with cavity backs.

    I think that if I practised hitting shots with a club that has a small sweetspot (ie a bladed iron), I would be able to tell immediately if I was hitting it off the middle or not. With this instant feedback I would work to hit the ball off the sweetspot and groove that feeling. The presumption would be that when I go back to practicing and playing with the forgiving cavity backs I would be hitting the ball more to the middle of the club and would be avoiding those dull, not-quite-off-the-centre shots.

    Honestly, I can see the theory behind this, but IMHO it doesn't work like that in reality. Nobody, and I mean nobody, hits it out of the sweetspot all the time. Even someone with a technically sound swing doesn't hit the centre all the time. Cavities IMO don't provide a masking effect for awful swings, they just let you get away with slight mi****s a bit more than a blade would. Grooving a feeling won't stop the odd shot being a few mm off centre, for sure it will help with swing path, attack angle etc., but slight mis-strikes will always happen. I'm sure we've all made what feels like a good swing and hit the ball a groove or two low on the face or a fraction towards the heel etc. - its shots like that that I personally think the cavities help more with.


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    #53
    whizbang
    Registered Users Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭whizbang


    The more modern clubs like MX and JPX's have plastic 'tuning insert' stuck to them. Its specifically designed to change the feel and sound of the strike.

    So it almost goes to prove that feedback is artificial on these clubs. Nothing remotely like the feedback on a real old school blade.

    Greebo, it sounds very like you have never played with a pure blade.

    And, by the way, we are not talking about a 'do or die', must win at all costs round of golf. This is practice, education, inprovement, etc.


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    #54
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    whizbang wrote: »
    The more modern clubs like MX and JPX's have plastic 'tuning insert' stuck to them. Its specifically designed to change the feel and sound of the strike.

    So it almost goes to prove that feedback is artificial on these clubs. Nothing remotely like the feedback on a real old school blade.

    Greebo, it sounds very like you have never played with a pure blade.

    And, by the way, we are not talking about a 'do or die', must win at all costs round of golf. This is practice, education, inprovement, etc.

    I have played with them and gamed (har har) a set of MBs for years.

    Feel and sound of strike aren't the only feedback. Did the ball fly like it was supposed to, the direction and distance it was supposed to?
    Thats the only feedback you need.


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    #55
    RoadRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭RoadRunner


    whizbang wrote: »
    inprovement

    improvement :D
    (couldn't help it)

    Better feedback from players irons, better training aid.


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    #56
    benny79
    Registered Users Posts: 3,113 ✭✭✭benny79


    Dont know if anyone has checked out the strike plan by Adam Young? but I think its suits this thread. As I always had a similar idea as the OP and reading this thread brought them taughts back but someone mentioned the strike plan and I purchased it last Monday early days as I have only touched on it. But seems good so far just to put the practice and drills into place on range. Only cost $42 with code.

    If anyone is interested I have a code to get 20% off. As some fellow boardie kindly gave me :D

    Just Pm me


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    #57
    spacecoyote
    Registered Users Posts: 8,476 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    benny79 wrote: »
    Dont know if anyone has checked out the strike plan by Adam Young? but I think its suits this thread. As I always had a similar idea as the OP and reading this thread brought them taughts back but someone mentioned the strike plan and I purchased it last Monday early days as I have only touched on it. But seems good so far just to put the practice and drills into place on range. Only cost $42 with code.

    If anyone is interested I have a code to get 20% off. As some fellow boardie kindly gave me :D

    Just Pm me

    Wonder who gave you that code?

    A lot of his drills would definitely help improve strike, and it wouldn't matter what type of club you're doing the drill with, so I think you're right. A lot cheaper than even buying an old 2nd hand set of blades too


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    #58
    ShivasIrons
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭ShivasIrons


    GreeBo wrote: »
    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/lighter-is-better-equipment-qa

    Right back at ya.




    Ah ok then, case closed I guess.:rolleyes:




    I provided research from an independent fitter who has shown that lighter doesn't always mean faster, lighter is faster for some but 88% swing faster with heavier whereas you provided an interview with a club manufacturer who had just bought out a lighter club and were looking to sell it. One size doesn't fit all.



    As for you ascertaining that any feedback is good enough, this is not true, the amount of feedback is important for learning, blades give much more feedback then big chunky cavities. The player not only needs to know that the ball was struck off the heel or the toe but how far off the heel or toe. There is no doubt that blades are much better at doing this and the OP is correct in thinking this.


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    #59
    MarcusP12
    Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭MarcusP12


    Well well well....look what came up on one of the pro vloggers on YouTube I follow........

    https://youtu.be/6tD1-SjwS-U

    Hopefully the link works....main points are from 5 min on exactly....ok it's not exactly David Ledbetter talking here but he's more or less suggesting exactly what I was thinking would be a good idea.....fair enough, you may think it's a load of $hite but at least there's someone with a bit more credibility than me suggesting it this time.....im relieved to think I'm not completely off my golfing rocker so that's good enough for me....whether I could be ar$ed or not to try it out is another thing....hard to come across such a nice set of blades for small money here compared to what he picked up in the video which puts me off...


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    #60
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    ShivasIrons wrote: »

    As for you ascertaining that any feedback is good enough, this is not true, the amount of feedback is important for learning, blades give much more feedback then big chunky cavities. The player not only needs to know that the ball was struck off the heel or the toe but how far off the heel or toe. There is no doubt that blades are much better at doing this and the OP is correct in thinking this.

    I'm not saying any feedback is good enough, I'm saying the ball gives you all the feedback you need.

    Seriously, how far of the hell or toe? It's either middle, heel or toe unless you are almost missing the ball.
    If you are almost missing the ball then blades are the least of your worries.

    And what's your answer for the pretty basic problem of learning to "grove your swing" with a set of clubs that have a totally different loft, lie, shaft, swing weight, kick point, flex and weight than the clubs you play with?
    It's pointless, I've never seen or heard of a professional doing this, have you?
    If you want to get better, get a lesson and practice what the pro tells you, and then get another lesson.

    Trying to hit blades is going to result in you slowing down your swing and being steery in a desperate attempt to get the ball airborne, the exact opposite of what you are trying to do.


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    #61
    Par72
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Par72


    GreeBo wrote: »
    If you can't tell a miss hit from a good strike then there are other problems involved, you yourself go on to call them "full, not quite of the centre shots" so clearly you are already getting all the feedback you need?

    Also do you really not think that if "grooving the feeling" was a thing, the professional golfern whose livelihood depends on it would be doing it?

    Why isn't every Pro using the tour striker training aid? Surely that's better again then using blades?

    I'm a fairly successful golfer who thinks that "grooving the feeling" is thing, I consider myself to be a feel player. I don't know what every professional golfer whose livelihood depends on it does, nor indeed do you.

    The feedback from modern, cavity backed clubs is limited - this is the point which you seem to disagree with?


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