Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

sydthebeat · 01-12-2007 5:17pm

DCOM, it really depends on how the notice is worded... for example if you just applied for change of roof design from hipped to gabled.. im sure you can continue up to wall plate level.....

it depends how much impact these other 'minor' ammendments are going to have.. i cant comment because i dont know what they are.....

If it is simple a case of windows become larger or smaller... once they dont contradict whats required in the county development plan, i cant see why your certifier would have an issue.....
if you are adding extra windows its a different story.....

just remember that, with any change (no matter how minor) the council will ask you to go back for permission... theres no breaking point with them....but your certifier may have a different opinion... and once hes satisfied that the alterations are minor enough not to require planning, then fire ahead.... at the end of teh day, he/she will furnish an 'opinion of substantial compliancfe'... theres a lot of grey area there.......

01-12-2007 5:17pm

dcom wrote: »

Hi,

Does all building work have to stop while we make the application for the amendments?????

I would imagine that only work that is relevent to the changes would have to stop, work on items that are unaffected could probably go ahead.

01-12-2007 5:22pm

A quich query,

A colleague of mine has a dream of siting a mobile home in a remote part of the country, in a forrested part of Leitrum.

He intends to use it as a holiday home, what are his chances of being granted permission?
One of his (future) neighbours appears to have just sited a mobile home on his site without consulting the council.

smashey · 01-12-2007 5:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

A quich query,

A colleague of mine has a dream of siting a mobile home in a remote part of the country, in a forrested part of Leitrum.

He intends to use it as a holiday home, what are his chances of being granted permission?
One of his (future) neighbours appears to have just sited a mobile home on his site without consulting the council.

Planning permission is required for mobile homes. I would suggest your colleague arranges a meeting with the local planner.

smashey · 01-12-2007 5:38pm

dcom wrote: »

Hi,

We are thinking about changing a couple of small things on our one off house in Co Kildare for which we already got planning permission. Changing from a hipped roof to a gable roof is the biggest change the others are very small changes to the window design and we added a couple more velux windows.

I originally posted asking for advice and Muffler suggested that we apply for a minor amendment and having spoken with the council we have to submit a whole new application inorder to make the changes.

Does all building work have to stop while we make the application for the amendments?????

It appears that the council don't consider the changes to be "minor" and therefore you'll have to take their advice and re-apply for your new design in lieu of what was previously granted. Your architect should be able to sort this.

01-12-2007 5:53pm

smashey wrote: »

Planning permission is required for mobile homes. I would suggest your colleague arranges a meeting with the local planner.

Thanks, that's what I suspected. I'd already suggested he speaks to the planners and arrange a pre-planning meating.

Just wanted to double check.

btw he was hoping to sneak one on to the site and hope no one would notice, I talked him out of that.:rolleyes:

itsmine · 01-12-2007 7:43pm

brettman wrote: »

Hi everyone,
I'm in a situation where (being new to Ireland) I listened to some builders tell me that I didn't need planning permission to do a small bay window with a canopy. We built it, and now find out that in fact we did need planning permission because we changed the facade of the house.
<snip>

We are facing a similar situation.
Can anyone advise the grounds for granting or refusing of retention permission? Is there a list or guidelines which are referenced when making a retention decision by the planners? (Specific to retention I mean - that are different to the Development Plan and the advice given in the 'Doing Work Around the House Planning Issues' leaflet?)

gas_ticket · 03-12-2007 6:19pm

Hi,

Even though you need to apply for planning for a mobile home you INTEND to put on a site, is it not true that if a mobile home has already been in place for more than a certain number of years (9?) that the local authority can not force its removal, and that no further planning application has to be made?

Please don't tell me I'm wrong!

Garroldy · 05-12-2007 3:06pm

itsmine wrote: »

We are facing a similar situation.
Can anyone advise the grounds for granting or refusing of retention permission? Is there a list or guidelines which are referenced when making a retention decision by the planners? (Specific to retention I mean - that are different to the Development Plan and the advice given in the 'Doing Work Around the House Planning Issues' leaflet?)

A retention application is viewed in the same manner as a new application, so all the criteria are the same. The system is not a punitive one and does not punish you for doing things backwards. However you will be charged €102 to make the application rather than the usual €34.

muffler · 05-12-2007 3:14pm

gas_ticket wrote: »

Hi,

Even though you need to apply for planning for a mobile home you INTEND to put on a site, is it not true that if a mobile home has already been in place for more than a certain number of years (9?) that the local authority can not force its removal, and that no further planning application has to be made?

Please don't tell me I'm wrong!

That is correct to a point. What it all means is that there is a statutory bar placed on the local authority which prevents them from taking any form of legal redress under the Planning & Development Acts. However the development (in this case a mobile home) is still unauthorised and could become an issue if a mortgage/certs of compliance come into play.

There are of course other grounds (apart from planning) on which a local authority could order the removal of the mobile home which Im not going to go into here.

LeperKing · 26-12-2007 7:00pm

Hi,

I bought a house that had planning permission approved for an extension. The original owner didn't get everything he wanted in the application, so he didn't go through with extension.

This is going back to 2003, am I able to use this PP to bulild the extension? I presume the drawings would be in the public domain?

Thanks,
LK.

smashey · 27-12-2007 1:49pm

Just bear in mind that planning permission is valid for a period of 5 years so you haven't much time left. You can of course build what was granted.

peepingtom · 09-01-2008 7:52pm

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone would have an idea about the following.....myself and my fiance own a house in North Co. Dublin but it is our dream to build our own home. As land is way too expensive in Dublin we are looking to the surroundings counties like Meath and Kildare. As it's nearly impossible to get planning permission if you're not a local my question is would we be considered planning permission to restore a ruined/derelict house in these areas?

Any advice would be great.....thanks.

cue · 09-01-2008 8:49pm

Refused again. Second time. Waiting for planners report but the architect says it is local needs again. They asked for further information, which I added (letter from priest, from school, from GAA, from swimming club, from library, more bank details etc). The architect thinks it is because I am applying to build in a rural area and I live in an urban area. What next?

DBIreland · 09-01-2008 9:19pm

Applied for permission on the 20th December. Heard nothing from the Council by the 3rd of Jan and could not see any details of application on-line so the wife rang them. The LOST the planning application! I had handed it to them over the counter and somewhere between me handing it to them and them scanning it the managed to lose it!! Wife roared down the phone at them and a few hours later they found it but they immediately went on the offensive by pointing out one or two things that had been missing (North had not been marked on one drawing and copies of site location map had been used). They said they would post out the application again so we could make the changes. But one week later and it has still not arrived, the wife is going to have another cut off them tomorrow.

Does my 8 week period still stand from the 20th December or from the date they receive the updated details?

sydthebeat · 09-01-2008 10:38pm

DBIreland wrote: »

Applied for permission on the 20th December. Heard nothing from the Council by the 3rd of Jan and could not see any details of application on-line so the wife rang them. The LOST the planning application! I had handed it to them over the counter and somewhere between me handing it to them and them scanning it the managed to lose it!! Wife roared down the phone at them and a few hours later they found it but they immediately went on the offensive by pointing out one or two things that had been missing (North had not been marked on one drawing and copies of site location map had been used). They said they would post out the application again so we could make the changes. But one week later and it has still not arrived, the wife is going to have another cut off them tomorrow.

Does my 8 week period still stand from the 20th December or from the date they receive the updated details?

I can only assume they are invalidating the first application, which means that you need to get the details correct and resubmit a new application. The 8 week period will then begin on the date of submitting this new application. It must be understood that there is no legal time limit in which the councils must validate an application (other than within the first 5 weeks)... ive had cases of applications being invalidated after this length of time.. frustrating is not even close to describing the feeling!!...

This is the current climate under which all agents must work.... that why its imperitive that everything is correct at the beginning....

sydthebeat · 09-01-2008 10:40pm

cue wrote: »

Refused again. Second time. Waiting for planners report but the architect says it is local needs again. They asked for further information, which I added (letter from priest, from school, from GAA, from swimming club, from library, more bank details etc). The architect thinks it is because I am applying to build in a rural area and I live in an urban area. What next?

Are you able to describe a long standing affiliation to the area you wish to live in?? Do you have family in the immediate area??? the rural guidelines are quite specific on to whom a positive presumption will be made.

sydthebeat · 09-01-2008 10:42pm

peepingtom wrote: »

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone would have an idea about the following.....myself and my fiance own a house in North Co. Dublin but it is our dream to build our own home. As land is way too expensive in Dublin we are looking to the surroundings counties like Meath and Kildare. As it's nearly impossible to get planning permission if you're not a local my question is would we be considered planning permission to restore a ruined/derelict house in these areas?

Any advice would be great.....thanks.

most counties have specific requirements for restorations of derelict dwellings, or replacement of derelict dwellings in their county development plan. Refer to these.

cue · 09-01-2008 11:11pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Are you able to describe a long standing affiliation to the area you wish to live in?? Do you have family in the immediate area??? the rural guidelines are quite specific on to whom a positive presumption will be made.

Yes! Yes! Born 1 mile from farm in 1969. Lived on farm til 1987 and went to UK. Returned 1993 and lived in town where I was born, schooled, played football etc etc etc until now. All family live on farm. Uncles next door. Grandparents door after that.4 generations now on the land. Surrounded by countless cousins. Supporting documentation to prove all but they still refuse and can get no clear answer off architects, councillors etc apart from " you live in the town now". House plans thay are happy with. Just local needs!!!

sydthebeat · 09-01-2008 11:47pm

cue wrote: »

Yes! Yes! Born 1 mile from farm in 1969. Lived on farm til 1987 and went to UK. Returned 1993 and lived in town where I was born, schooled, played football etc etc etc until now. All family live on farm. Uncles next door. Grandparents door after that.4 generations now on the land. Surrounded by countless cousins. Supporting documentation to prove all but they still refuse and can get no clear answer off architects, councillors etc apart from " you live in the town now". House plans thay are happy with. Just local needs!!!

sounds like you need to take it to the Bord, if local needs is the only reason for refusal....

its not on a strategic road, or in a Special Area of Conservation is it....

The rural housing guidelines also make specific mention of returning imigrants.... you are getting a raw deal. from what you have posted

cue · 10-01-2008 11:15pm

It is not a strategic road nor is it a conservation area. I would not bother applying for permission unless I have a perfectly good case. However, I was warned at the start of this process that a good case meant, at best, a gamble. I did not believe this. I believe that there are processes and systems in place to help and serve people. Planners were there to look at the big picture, curtail aggressive development and protect the environment, things that I may not take into consideration when pursuing my own goals. Fair enough. I have no problem walking away from this if it is not good for everyone.I trust people and it is an attitude that has worked well for me. Rarely do I get let down and if I do a lot of the time it is to do with my expectations. However, I am gobsmacked by the fact that I receive no results for services rendered apart from an embarressed shrug and a weak explanation about "local needs" that does not make sense. I was told time and time again, by people in similar situations and people who deal with the authorities that this "process" was completely random and inconsistent. I believe that if you followed instructions, took guidance from authorities, and work with instead of against people, results are either guaranteed or change is needed somewhere. I know that I will eventually get permission to build a home to rear my children because I have not been given a reason why I cannot which makes sense. I know plenty of people who were in the same situation as me, and they eventually received permission. The reason I am writing is just to voice my feelings, and this forum may not be the place for that, as planning is so impersonal. I feel frustrated, powerless and strangely - rejected by my own community. But thank you all for your own experiences so far and hope to see you in the "Live build" thread sometime.:D

muffler · 10-01-2008 11:47pm

cue wrote: »

It is not a strategic road nor is it a conservation area. I would not bother applying for permission unless I have a perfectly good case. However, I was warned at the start of this process that a good case meant, at best, a gamble. I did not believe this. I believe that there are processes and systems in place to help and serve people. Planners were there to look at the big picture, curtail aggressive development and protect the environment, things that I may not take into consideration when pursuing my own goals. Fair enough. I have no problem walking away from this if it is not good for everyone.I trust people and it is an attitude that has worked well for me. Rarely do I get let down and if I do a lot of the time it is to do with my expectations. However, I am gobsmacked by the fact that I receive no results for services rendered apart from an embarressed shrug and a weak explanation about "local needs" that does not make sense. I was told time and time again, by people in similar situations and people who deal with the authorities that this "process" was completely random and inconsistent. I believe that if you followed instructions, took guidance from authorities, and work with instead of against people, results are either guaranteed or change is needed somewhere. I know that I will eventually get permission to build a home to rear my children because I have not been given a reason why I cannot which makes sense. I know plenty of people who were in the same situation as me, and they eventually received permission. The reason I am writing is just to voice my feelings, and this forum may not be the place for that, as planning is so impersonal. I feel frustrated, powerless and strangely - rejected by my own community. But thank you all for your own experiences so far and hope to see you in the "Live build" thread sometime.:D

Thats a damn good post and maybe you could to worse things than print it and take it to a meeting with the local planner.

Every county has its own development plan and that plan will curtail developments in certain areas. Like it or lump it you are stuck with it but dont forget one very important thing - the plan was adopted by the guy/girl you or your extended family voted for. The whole process involves (simple format) the planners proposing the way they want to see the county develop over the next 5 years. That proposal goes to a full meeting of the council where the elected members (councilors) put their hand up in the air and vote for its adoption or non adoption or whatever.

What I am saying to you here is that you should discuss this with your local councilor and remind him/her that you did not vote them into office so as they could adopt a development plan that discriminated against you and your family.

Good luck with it.

jendavnlillie · 15-01-2008 10:43am

cue wrote: »

Yes! Yes! Born 1 mile from farm in 1969. Lived on farm til 1987 and went to UK. Returned 1993 and lived in town where I was born, schooled, played football etc etc etc until now. All family live on farm. Uncles next door. Grandparents door after that.4 generations now on the land. Surrounded by countless cousins. Supporting documentation to prove all but they still refuse and can get no clear answer off architects, councillors etc apart from " you live in the town now". House plans thay are happy with. Just local needs!!!

Hi, we were told that we do not mention that had at any point owned a house, wheither in the area we are applying in or even in a different county. They can say that basically you have/had a house and therefore have no need to build a one-off. We also had to show documentation giving proof that we lived within 3 miles of our site for the past 5 years.

jendavnlillie · 15-01-2008 11:05am

cue wrote: »

However, I am gobsmacked by the fact that I receive no results for services rendered apart from an embarressed shrug and a weak explanation about "local needs" that does not make sense. I was told time and time again, by people in similar situations and people who deal with the authorities that this "process" was completely random and inconsistent. I believe that if you followed instructions, took guidance from authorities, and work with instead of against people, results are either guaranteed or change is needed somewhere.

Your point about the inconsistancies in relation to the local needs seems to be a big issue, no matter what county. I spent months talking to planners and councilors trying to find out exactly what " local needs " meant and not one person could give me a straight forward answer as to what we had to do. Some people said you had to live within 2 mile, 3 km 5 miles of the proposed dwelling....that you had to show you were/would be giving something back to the community....documentation showing proof of residency in the area for a period of no less than 5 years....some people went on about the traffic congestion......
A simple set of guidelines can't be that hard to produce. From what I've heard it depends entirley on who you get and what humor they're in on that particular day.
A couple I know told me recently whenthey were looking to change they're chicken farm from agricultural to commercial, they spent nearly 2 years trying to get the permission, going in for meetings with one planner in particular. On one occasion they were both in his office and he had a heated conversation over the phone with someone, obviously in relation to planning, when the planner got off the phone, he asked the guy to hold up a pile of applications on his desk, took the application of the person who had just been on the phone, put it to the bottom of the pile and said " that'll sort him out!"
They were told by a councilor that she should go in by herself and wear something short, ( I nearly fell off my chair when they told me this, so I know it sounds crazy but..) so she did. And low and behold they got their permission not too long afterwards.

Pathetic. In this day and age, in our so called democratic society, you'd think that it wouldn't matter how large your arse pocket is but unfortunatley we are still living in the world of.. " its not what you know but who you know"

smashey · 15-01-2008 11:22am

jendavnlillie wrote: »

Pathetic. In this day and age, in our so called democratic society, you'd think that it wouldn't matter how large your arse pocket is but unfortunatley we are still living in the world of.. " its not what you know but who you know"

You're new to this forum so I'll be gentle here.

We don't particularly like comments like that here. If you have a problem with the planners, take it up with the relevant Co. Manager. While allowing some rants, this forum will not be a space for generalisations like this.

Remember this when posting next and we'll all get along just fine.

muffler · 15-01-2008 11:36am

jendavnlillie wrote: »

They were told by a councilor that she should go in by herself and wear something short, ( I nearly fell off my chair when they told me this, so I know it sounds crazy but..) so she did. And low and behold they got their permission not too long afterwards.

Try going in naked and you will probably come out with both the permission and a brown envelope*

I also agree with smasheys sentiments on your post. I know planning can be a frustrating process but this forum and particularly this thread is all about seeking (and giving) advice on planning issues.

*to cover the naughty bits

cue · 15-01-2008 11:35pm

Still waiting for a copy of the planners report but the architect read it down the phone to me and even he is angry. Refusal was on two main points. Firstly, I submitted bank details which contain my current address, 1 mile away from the farm. They are not happy about this - architect says it is something to do with a public file. Secondly, they say that I have not given enough documentation to prove my links to the rural area in question for at least five years. We have no idea how they can say this as I have submitted quite a sizeable file containing every scrap of paper containing my name and address up to age 18 and lots more afterwards. The architect is going to have a chat with the planner in question and I am going to visit the local councillor again. Thanks Muffler for the explanation of the relationship between planners and councillors. That is useful info. That whole area was a bit of a mystery to me and that certainly does not help when trying to get things done.

ollie30 · 15-01-2008 11:38pm

hi all, my brother is soon to start on his build but didnt like the provision for the downstairs bedroom.now he doesnt want to change the rest of the house in any great way so he rang the local planners and asked could he build a 200sq ft extension to the rear of the house comprising just 1 storey(2 storey house) and asked can this be agreed to on a house thats not yet built and without further planning.they replied that he could as long as it's to the rear and not over 40sq mtrs and that even if the house wasnt started yet it wouldnt matter as he could just build it the day after the house would be completed to get round the loop hole so its basicily the same thing.however his engineer thats signing off the build states that technically the planner is wrong and that a proposed new build would need further planning and is refusing to sign off if the extension goes ahead,can someone explain who,s right and what can be done to get around this problem

muffler · 15-01-2008 11:51pm

ollie30 wrote: »

hi all, my brother is soon to start on his build but didnt like the provision for the downstairs bedroom.now he doesnt want to change the rest of the house in any great way so he rang the local planners and asked could he build a 200sq ft extension to the rear of the house comprising just 1 storey(2 storey house) and asked can this be agreed to on a house thats not yet built and without further planning.they replied that he could as long as it's to the rear and not over 40sq mtrs and that even if the house wasnt started yet it wouldnt matter as he could just build it the day after the house would be completed to get round the loop hole so its basicily the same thing.however his engineer thats signing off the build states that technically the planner is wrong and that a proposed new build would need further planning and is refusing to sign off if the extension goes ahead,can someone explain who,s right and what can be done to get around this problem

The engineer is 100% correct and i suspect that the person in the planning dept. was a member of the admin staff.

alinoee · 16-01-2008 10:22am

Ollie, the simplest way is to submit revised drawings to LA. He could also try to phase construction (depends on house design) or change engeneer.

sandyg · 16-01-2008 10:28am

When we applied for local neeeds we had to get the following:
3 letters: one from local garda, priest and school to state that we lived within the area and attended the local school. We had to live within 4 kms of a "crows fly's" to the site. They enquired if we owned a house to which we didnt as we had applied for temporary planning at the time for a mobile home on the site and had sold ours before attending the first planning meeting. Got the planning first time round.

cue · 16-01-2008 12:07pm

sandyg wrote: »

one from local garda,

I wonder do the Gardai have different county guidelines aswell? When I approached them for a letter for my application they told me that I had been informed wrong and that they did not get involved in the planning process.

ollie30 · 16-01-2008 10:08pm

thank you,much appreciated

sandyg · 17-01-2008 10:04am

A letter from your local T.D./Councillor should suffice if you are one letter short!!!

Twain · 20-01-2008 5:57pm

Hi

I own a plot of land which I intend to build on in a few years time. At the moment I don't want the expense of applying for full planning permission, getting plans drawn up, especially when there is a possibility that permission won't be granted.
The county council are getting stricter in recent times about giving permission.
My question is: Could I apply for outline permission only and at a later date get plans drawn up before applying for full permission.
I've searched for more information on outline permission but I'm not sure what it involves. Do you need an architect?

Many thanks for any replies

muffler · 20-01-2008 6:13pm

Twain wrote: »

Hi

I own a plot of land which I intend to build on in a few years time. At the moment I don't want the expense of applying for full planning permission, getting plans drawn up, especially when there is a possibility that permission won't be granted.
The county council are getting stricter in recent times about giving permission.
My question is: Could I apply for outline permission only and at a later date get plans drawn up before applying for full permission.
I've searched for more information on outline permission but I'm not sure what it involves. Do you need an architect?

Many thanks for any replies

Yeah you can apply for outline PP. If successful you need to then make another application for "permission consequent" within 3 years of the outline PP being granted. If that application is OK then you will have another 5 years to start and complete your project.

You dont necessarily need an architect for the outline application - a draughtsman/technician/engineer can prepare (and submit) the application. But you do need someone who is familiar with the planning process.

At the stage of applying for outline PP you will need to demonstrate that you satisfy the requirements of the "local needs" issue if you are proposing to build in a rural area and also have a site assessment carried out (re sewage treatment & disposal). Site location and site layout maps need to be submitted.

The only real difference between the outline and full PP is that with outline you dont submit house plans but you will have to submit all other documentation.

Edit: This doc. from Donegal Co. Council will give you an insight - just ignore town names etc as the regs are the same throughout the country

Twain · 20-01-2008 7:12pm

Thanks Muffler, that's very helpful

mickdw · 21-01-2008 6:52pm

ollie30 wrote: »

hi all, my brother is soon to start on his build but didnt like the provision for the downstairs bedroom.now he doesnt want to change the rest of the house in any great way so he rang the local planners and asked could he build a 200sq ft extension to the rear of the house comprising just 1 storey(2 storey house) and asked can this be agreed to on a house thats not yet built and without further planning.they replied that he could as long as it's to the rear and not over 40sq mtrs and that even if the house wasnt started yet it wouldnt matter as he could just build it the day after the house would be completed to get round the loop hole so its basicily the same thing.however his engineer thats signing off the build states that technically the planner is wrong and that a proposed new build would need further planning and is refusing to sign off if the extension goes ahead,can someone explain who,s right and what can be done to get around this problem

Hi
Im an engineer working signing off one off houses, mortgage drawdowns etc and I dont see a problem to be honest provided the extension is within all the limits for exempted development. Tell your engineer to sign it or you will get someone else. Nobody could have a problem with it as long as no other alterations being proposed. What I would do in that case is issue completion cert for the main build then issue a second cert for the extension stating that in my opinion, it is exempt development. This is then perfectly acceptable and should you go to sell in future, there is paperwork for the extension and solicitor will be happy with cert stating planning exempt.

mickdw · 21-01-2008 6:59pm

Twain wrote: »

Hi

I own a plot of land which I intend to build on in a few years time. At the moment I don't want the expense of applying for full planning permission, getting plans drawn up, especially when there is a possibility that permission won't be granted.
The county council are getting stricter in recent times about giving permission.
My question is: Could I apply for outline permission only and at a later date get plans drawn up before applying for full permission.
I've searched for more information on outline permission but I'm not sure what it involves. Do you need an architect?

Many thanks for any replies

The only difference is that no house design required. To be honest, it will cost you nearly double by going outline route then full planning. If you have idea of house design, I would go full permission

muffler · 21-01-2008 7:27pm

mickdw wrote: »

Hi
I dont see a problem to be honest provided the extension is within all the limits for exempted development.

Do you genuinely consider this to be exempted development?

mickdw wrote: »

Tell your engineer to sign it or you will get someone else.

And would you find this an acceptable way for a client to approach you with a similar problem?

mickdw wrote: »

Nobody could have a problem with it as long as no other alterations being proposed.

And why would anyone have a problem if it is exempt.

mickdw wrote: »

What I would do in that case is issue completion cert for the main build then issue a second cert for the extension stating that in my opinion, it is exempt development.

Is this not a bit odd - giving 2 certs for a new house - one for the house itself and one for an extension to the house. Doesn't add up.

mickdw, Im not having a go here or nit picking as such but I find your comments a wee bit at odds with planning legislation. I dont think I have seen you posting here before so welcome to the forum. Given your line of work you should be able to offer some good advice here.

willywilliams · 21-01-2008 7:37pm

I've lived outside of Ireland (US) for the last 15 years. I've put in my planning application and have been very honest and up front about my situation. My parents contacted our local councillor and he thinks the planner will want me to show employment in the area to prove I am returning home. As I dont plan to return until later in year obviously I dont have a job lined up. Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue or has anyone run into it before? Thanks!

smashey · 21-01-2008 8:19pm

Don't they allow for returning emigrants?

willywilliams · 21-01-2008 8:40pm

The development plan for the county, which I assume is similar to most counties states: "Certain special needs are also recognized ... persons local to an area are considered to include ... Returning emigrants who have lived for substantial parts of their lives in rural areas, then moved abroad and who now wish to return to reside near other family members, to work locally, to care for elderly members of their family or to retire." So I meet the definition, and the councillor says it depends on the planner, but most likely I will need to prove I am returning home. I am not sure how I can do that without physically showing up at his/her office with my clothes, kids, dogs and knick knacks. What physical state is a "returning emigrant". If I move home I am an returned emigrant?

muffler · 21-01-2008 8:44pm

smashey wrote: »

Don't they allow for returning emigrants?

The OP's development should indeed make allowance for this. i am open to correction but I am fairly sure the DOE issued guidelines in this regard to all the planning authorities.

willywilliams, you should try and find the development plan for your county online and look for the section of the plan that details rural housing policy. You should then see a list of exemptions or people/applicants that are deemed to meet the rural housing criteria.Both your engineer and local councillor should be aware of these exemptions.

In relation to the employment question if your family have a farm get a letter from the registered owner of the farm confirming that you are returning to take charge of the running of the farm on a full time basis*****

*****I can only tell you to do that if its actually true (go to confessions later) as we dont allow the flaunting of planning regs on this forum

Edit: You found the answers yourself

muffler · 21-01-2008 8:47pm

willywilliams wrote: »

The development plan for the county, which I assume is similar to most counties states: "Certain special needs are also recognized ... persons local to an area are considered to include ... Returning emigrants who have lived for substantial parts of their lives in rural areas, then moved abroad and who now wish to return to reside near other family members, to work locally, to care for elderly members of their family or to retire." So I meet the definition, and the councillor says it depends on the planner, but most likely I will need to prove I am returning home. I am not sure how I can do that without physically showing up at his/her office with my clothes, kids, dogs and knick knacks. What physical state is a "returning emigrant". If I move home I am an returned emigrant?

I would think that a letter of confirmation of your status from a local councillor, member of the clergy, solicitor etc would suffice but again you would need this defined by the local planner or most likely it should state this in the development plan.

willywilliams · 21-01-2008 9:03pm

I suppose I should wait and see what happens with the application and if the Planner requests further information (no doubt they will). I like to be proactive, though.
Thanks for your help.

mickdw · 21-01-2008 11:39pm

muffler wrote: »

Do you genuinely consider this to be exempted development?

And would you find this an acceptable way for a client to approach you with a similar problem?

Is this not a bit odd - giving 2 certs for a new house - one for the house itself and one for an extension to the house. Doesn't add up.

mickdw, Im not having a go here or nit picking as such but I find your comments a wee bit at odds with planning legislation. I dont think I have seen you posting here before so welcome to the forum. Given your line of work you should be able to offer some good advice here.

I suggested the two certs as this is how I would handle it if the extension was constructed as an add on to an original house. So yes technically, it is only planning compliant if constructed after the main build. Same end result and worst planning issues are having a blind eye turned.
Believe me I have clients regularily who do approach me that way.

Edit: Just stuck my post in there. Better quoting a post so as we know who said what and what the reply related to.

dfcelt · 22-01-2008 12:53pm

Does anyone know if there is a mimimum width/size that a site must adhere to relative to obtaining planning with a septic tank?
Almost finished my application drgs and current landowner (father in law) is wondering if we could limit our roadside dimension to 30m in order for him to install a new entrance to the rest of his field adjacent to our site. The lane dips quite a bit after about 40m so ideally he would need me to limit our frontage to 30m to enable his new gate to be installed. We can extend back into the field as much as we like and extend across the field as much as we like but its the frontage which may become an issue. I'm thinking of 30m wide at roadside, 40m wide in field & length 60/65m. Any more than 1/2 acre and cutting the lawn will depress me every summer!
Percolation holes dug and approved for septic tank. Plans of house hopefully finalised this week, I'll post them up here for comments/suggestions/ridicule.

smashey · 22-01-2008 12:58pm

The width would be dictated by the location of the tank and the percolation area which has to be minimum distances from drains, boundaries etc.

Villain · 22-01-2008 1:09pm

smashey do you have those distances, i.e. tank from dwelling and from well etc?

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