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Should people in emergency accommodation be made pay for their stay?

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    #32
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Gatling wrote:
    The vast majority don't live in hubs and the vast majority don't have to leave.their accommodation at 8pm ( emergency hostels yes) but not hotels b&bs (business model has always operated on out after breakfast and come back in the evening ). And those who have to be out of hotels at 8 either have school runs or have jobs to go to ,still don't pay

    They have no cooking facilities at all. They have to pay for take out food or store bought sandwiches. A huge amount of people in hotels have to move regularly. Sometimes several times per week.

    What exactly would they be paying for?


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    #33
    leonffrench
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭leonffrench


    Sleeper12 wrote:
    What exactly would they be paying for?


    A roof over their head


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    #34
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    leonffrench wrote: »
    A roof over their head

    Imagine having to do that like!


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    #35
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    leonffrench wrote:
    A roof over their head


    So the roughsleepers brought in for the night should have to pay for a mat on the floor just because they have a roof over their head?

    If you read the thread you will see people who have been in emergency accommodation and they have explained that they paid something towards rent.

    The only ones not charged anything are ones that have to vacate every morning and roam the streets till 8pm, people that get moved from place to place several times per week & people with no cooking facilities. Everyone else pays. EVERYONE


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    #36
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Wheeliebin30 wrote:
    Imagine having to do that like!

    I'd love to see you try it for a few weeks. Your opinion would change quick enough


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    #37
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    So the roughsleepers brought in for the night should have to pay for a mat on the floor just because they have a roof over their head?

    If you read the thread you will see people who have been in emergency accommodation and they have explained that they paid something towards rent.

    The only ones not charged anything are ones that have to vacate every morning and roam the streets till 8pm, people that get moved from place to place several times per week & people with no cooking facilities. Everyone else pays. EVERYONE

    Yeah like everyone in council houses pay rent although there is 60 million in arrears.

    Give over ffs and wake up.


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    #38
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    I'd love to see you try it for a few weeks. Your opinion would change quick enough

    I wouldn’t deliberately make myself homless to get a forever home.

    I work hard to provide for my family and don’t expect anyone else to do it for me.

    You wouldn’t understand this concept though.


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    #39
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    There are nurses and careers working in hse care homes etc that are working full time but been put up in emergency housing.

    This to me is beyond nuts as these are getting good money and do sh1t loads of o/t.


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    #40
    engiweirdo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭engiweirdo


    Theres a nasty mean spirited libertarian streak present in a lot of posters on here. A little bit of advice perhaps: This is Europe, we don't play like that. You want that type of society? Theres this giant libertarian playground run by an orange guy to the west. Have at it. I suspect it's maybe not as fun as you think.


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    #41
    leonffrench
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭leonffrench


    Sleeper12 wrote:
    So the roughsleepers brought in for the night should have to pay for a mat on the floor just because they have a roof over their head?


    Have read all the thread thanks and you know very well we aren't talking about rough sleepers


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    #42
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    leonffrench wrote:
    Have read all the thread thanks and you know very well we aren't talking about rough sleepers

    If you read the thread you'd see the thread title. Emergency accommodation also includes inner city shelters & hostels.

    Again if you read the thread you will see posters who lived in emergency accommodation stating that they paid rent.


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    #43
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    They have no cooking facilities at all. They have to pay for take out food or store bought sandwiches. A huge amount

    What exactly would they be paying for?

    Funny thing Suddenly all their mammies and daddy's living in council housing became invisible ,
    Bet you anything local take aways businesses haven't increased with these thousands of Extra orders coming in from hotels nightly

    Not buying it for one bit ,

    They should be paying to stay and its absolutely crazy to suggest people live rent fee and utilities free until they get their perfect forever home in the perfect new build council estate in the perfect area.
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #44
    leonffrench
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭leonffrench


    engiweirdo wrote:
    Theres a nasty mean spirited libertarian streak present in a lot of posters on here. A little bit of advice perhaps: This is Europe, we don't play like that. You want that type of society? Theres this giant libertarian playground run by an orange guy to the west. Have at it. I suspect it's maybe not as fun as you think.


    No.... just sick of paying for other people who decide not to take any responsibility for their actions. Me and wheelybin are on the same page here and I'll hazard a guess and say he/she, like me, wasn't born with a silver spoon but had to work hard to get, and keep, a roof over our families heads.


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    #45
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    leonffrench wrote: »
    Have read all the thread thanks and you know very well we aren't talking about rough sleepers


    Try reading these
    eviltwin wrote: »
    I work for an emergency accommodation provider and we take rent from service users even those on welfare. DCC guidelines. Not sure about the others but I'd imagine we all work under the same rules.
    Foweva Awone wrote: »
    I spent a couple of months in an SVDP house, think it was €50 a week we had to pay. All bills and food included in that.


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    #46
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Try reading these

    60 million in rent arrears in social housing.

    Some pay most don’t.


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    #47
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Whit so many up on their high horse no one thought is it legal to charge rent to a homeless person when they are only allowed on the premises for 12 hours out of 24?

    Isn't it illegal to rent a home without cooking facilities?

    The government sets out minimum standards in rental accommodation, wouldn't it look wonderful if they break their own minimum standards/ How could they expect private landlords to abide by the law when the government doesn't?

    It's ridiculous to suggest that homeless people pay for emergency accommodation that doesn't meet minimum standards set down in law.


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    #48
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Try reading these

    That means nothing ,

    One said they are payed €50 to stay Vincents for their accommodation
    And one said they work somewhere that charges rent ,

    The majority living in hotels and b&bs do not pay a single financial contribution to their stay which in a lot of cases is multiple years living rent and utilities free despite being capable of financially affording it ,
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #49
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Sleeper12 wrote: »

    Isn't it illegal to rent a home without cooking facilities?

    Hotels are not homes they don't fall under rental laws but I get the feeling that was already known
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #50
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    60 million in rent arrears in social housing.

    Some pay most don’t.


    What has that to do with homeless people in emergency accommodation?


    I know you have issues with the homeless crisis but you need to vent at the next FG meeting, not here. I didn't cause this mess or ignore it since 2012 so no point venting here. FG were warned since 2012 & they ignored it. The billions squandered on Irish water & meters could have kick started building in 2012. They doctor the figures month by month to try keep it under 10,000 when everyone & their dog knows it broke the 10,000 barrier 9 months ago


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    #51
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    What has that to do with homeless people in emergency accommodation?

    What's the current bill for free hotels and b&bs €300,000,000, + and climbing per year ,

    Where does it stop 4 years a billion euro bill and nothing payed back In return
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #52
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Gatling wrote: »
    Hotels are not homes they don't fall under rental laws but I get the feeling that was already known


    Ah but the government are housing them in hotels. There is a huge difference. They aren't in hotels on holiday or a business trip. They aren't even allowed to use the hotel facilities in most cases.



    The government can't charge them rent in homes without kitchens. Any landlord knows that. They can't charge them rent if they get kicked out at 8am everyday. Any landlord will tell you that.


    The government can't give them a lease as the hotel can & does kick them out at peek times.


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    #53
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Gatling wrote: »
    What's the current bill for free hotels and b&bs €300,000,000, + and climbing per year ,

    Where does it stop 4 years a billion euro bill and nothing payed back In return




    Here's what you need to do, tell all of this to FG. Ask them why they allowed this to happen over the last 6 or 7 years. Ask them why did they sit on their bum till the whole Apollo House thing forced them to sit up & look at it. peaking of Apollo House, FG promised no one would have to stay in hotels or hostels from July 2017. They lied! If they kept their promise we wouldn't even have this thread


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    #54
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    The government the government the government!!!


    When will people realise the government are not here to provide solutions to all of life’s problems!!!


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    #55
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Ah but the government are housing them in hotels. There is a huge difference. They aren't in hotels on holiday or a business trip. They aren't even allowed to use the hotel facilities in most cases.



    The government can't charge them rent in homes without kitchens. Any landlord knows that. They can't charge them rent if they get kicked out at 8am everyday. Any landlord will tell you that.


    The government can't give them a lease as the hotel can & does kick them out at peek times.


    The government and us the tax payers are paying for the stays in hotels , they are not housed they don't have rental agreements , stop trying to argue rental agreements and standards ,

    If they are not happy why not self accommodate there is properties out there ,,but when everything is provided free why would you bother
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #56
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Here's what you need to do, tell all of this to FG. Ask them why they allowed this to happen over the last 6 or 7 years. Ask them why did they sit on their bum till the whole Apollo House thing forced them to sit up & look at it. peaking of Apollo House, FG promised no one would have to stay in hotels or hostels from July 2017. They lied! If they kept their promise we wouldn't even have this thread

    It’s all FGs fault everything.

    Nothing to do with personal responsibility or people gaming the system.

    Everything is the governments fault, everything!!


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    #57
    noodler
    Registered Users Posts: 26,183 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Here's what you need to do, tell all of this to FG. Ask them why they allowed this to happen over the last 6 or 7 years. Ask them why did they sit on their bum till the whole Apollo House thing forced them to sit up & look at it. peaking of Apollo House, FG promised no one would have to stay in hotels or hostels from July 2017. They lied! If they kept their promise we wouldn't even have this thread

    Stop blaming the government for everything and address the points please.


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    #58
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Wheeliebin30 wrote:
    It’s all FGs fault everything.

    Well let's forget that they lied about no one having to stay in hotels and hostels from almost 18 months back. Let's take your view that homeless people should pay for emergency accommodation. What did your local FG TD or councillor have to say about this? Why aren't they charging rent? It's all well and good coming on here & huffing and puffing but who do you suppose is to blame for no rent being charged? So this isn't FGs fault either??? Who is in government? Who has biggest party? So all the good things are down to FG & all the bad things have nothing to do with FG?

    Jees I'd love to live in that make believe utopia for a few days
    Gatling wrote:
    The government and us the tax payers are paying for the stays in hotels , they are not housed they don't have rental agreements , stop trying to argue rental agreements and standards ,


    Well it seems that the government agrees with me that they cannot charge rent for accommodation without cooking facilities. If they can charge rent then why aren't they? Have you written to your local council or councillors about this?
    As other posters have said, they were charged rent in emergency accommodation or charged rent when working for SVDP where there was cooking facilities. They can't change rent where they is no cooking facilities, you have to move weekly or byweekly or you get kicked out for 12 hours a day 7 days a week.


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    #59
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Who ignored the homeless crisis since 2012? If there was someone else that I could blame I would. Labour Party paid the price there's no point pointing the finger at them. The only party in power since 2012 is FG.

    If you have a problem with homeless people not paying for emergency accommodation then I suggest getting onto your nearest FG TD or councilor. They can bring change. I can't bring in rent & I doubt anyone here can. Only the people in power can bring in these changes though I do believe that they will have to change the law as these places do not have kitchens and its illegal to rent accommodation without cooking facilities.


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    #60
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Who ignored the homeless crisis since 2012? If there was someone else that I could blame I would. Labour Party paid the price there's no point pointing the finger at them. The only party in power since 2012

    There is no homeless crisis.

    A tiny tiny tiny percentage of people are looking for a forever home and have found an easy way to get it.

    It’s an entitlement crisis.


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    #61
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Wheeliebin30 wrote:
    There is no homeless crisis.


    What a utopia it must be like in your head.

    There is another poster here that has worked for SVDP. I have done work with them & still do from time to time. In the world I live in (I call it the real world) there is a homeless crisis. Many posters have been posting about the homeless crisis and the looming housing shortage since 2012. Both of these things are very real. Obviously the homeless crisis is directly linked to the housing crisis.

    The government did nothing to encourage building. Instead they gave home improvement grants. Home improvement grants encourage people to extend their homes instead of moving. We needed them to move, to encourage the building of new homes. They gave a first time buyers grant that pushed the prices up higher. The only people to benefit from FG with new builds were one off builds on a plot of land.


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