Should people in emergency accommodation be made pay for their stay?

TCM

splashuum wrote:

Niall Boylan poised this question today regarding people in emergency accommodation. Should they be made contribute a reasonable sum towards their stay?

Boylan is a poobag.

eviltwin

emergency accommodation isn't the worst. Where I work is actually quite nice, there are no requirements to be out during the day, curfew is midnight but that's just for access, let someone know you will be out later and it's OK. Food isn't provided but there are kitchens and all equipment. There are also the services of staff, we assist with not just housing but education, career preparation, parenting etc. We regularly run courses in everything from baby yoga to interview skills.

Charging rent may seem cruel but it's a low rent and for some it's a valuable tool in managing their money. If they can't manage to pay us how will it work in the real world.

Most of the residents work, some study, very few do nothing unless they have babies. Most are desperate to get out but don't have the same things going for them as other potential renters and when landlords find out they live in a hub then it's usually game over. The image is they are lazy and unreliable.

Our residents are there due to domestic violence, being kicked out by parents, landlords selling up etc.

Sleeper12

eviltwin wrote:

Charging rent may seem cruel but it's a low rent and for some it's a valuable tool in managing their money. If they can't manage to pay us how will it work in the real world.

People are refusing to read your posts. They rather believe some idiot looking to get newspaper headlines than someone like yourself that states clearly that the homeless in your accommodation pay rent.

Gatling

Sleeper12 wrote: »

People are refusing to read your posts. They rather believe some idiot looking to get newspaper headlines than someone like yourself that states clearly that the homeless in your accommodation pay rent.

There you go again ,

The majority of people living In hotels and b&bs make Zero financial contribution to their stay.

Maybe the eviltwin should explain are they working in a hostel or hub ,

It's certainly not a hotel or b&b by the sound's of it ,

Sleeper12

Gatling wrote:

The majority of people living In hotels and b&bs make Zero financial contribution to their stay.

I've already explained this. It's illegal to rent without cooking facilities. People staying in hotels & B&Bs aren't guests. In fact they have no contract with the hotel at all. They state agencies block book the rooms & house these people there.

If you want to get the law changed & have these people pay rent then you need to get in touch with FG councils and TDs to get them to change the law. There's not much point moaning here as I don't believe any poster here has the power to charge homeless people rent.

There's another thing happening under FGs watch. Freeloading honeless people not being charged rent. The more I think about the more I think you are right. FG have a lot to answer to alright

Sleeper12

Gatling wrote:

The majority of people living In hotels and b&bs make Zero financial contribution to their stay.

Can you post a link to back up your claim that the majority aren't paying rent? Or is this just guesswork /wishful thinking on your part?

Wheeliebin30

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I've already explained this. It's illegal to rent without cooking facilities. People staying in hotels & B&Bs aren't guests. In fact they have no contract with the hotel at all. They state agencies block book the rooms & house these people there.

If you want to get the law changed & have these people pay rent then you need to get in touch with FG councils and TDs to get them to change the law. There's not much point moaning here as I don't believe any poster here has the power to charge homeless people rent.

There's another thing happening under FGs watch. Freeloading honeless people not being charged rent. The more I think about the more I think you are right. FG have a lot to answer to alright

DCC look after these services who are majority Sinn Fein.

FG can’t look after everything hence their being councils.

Sometimes it’s like talking to 6 year olds around here.

eviltwin

Gatling wrote: »

There you go again ,

The majority of people living In hotels and b&bs make Zero financial contribution to their stay.

Maybe the eviltwin should explain are they working in a hostel or hub ,

It's certainly not a hotel or b&b by the sound's of it ,

I work in a hub. Just to clarify, we don't charge rent it's DCC who charge it and set the rate. We just collect it. DCC also house people in hostels and hotels so they may also collect a rent from those residents.

Wheeliebin30

eviltwin wrote: »

I work in a hub. Just to clarify, we don't charge rent it's DCC who charge it and set the rate. We just collect it. DCC also house people in hostels and hotels so they may also collect a rent from those residents.

Be honest you have no idea of the percentage who actually pay it?

eviltwin

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Be honest you have no idea of the percentage who actually pay it?

No because it's only some of the users I work directly with. I'm responsible for chasing my clients for arrears and it's only a small amount who don't pay. We take the money by direct debit. If someone doesn't clear their arrears that stays with them because the money is owed to DCC. They can't be offered a council property until they are cleared and any reference I give has to be honest about their reliability in paying so it's in their interest to pay on time. Most of my residents are working so it's not an issue to them paying on time.

Sleeper12

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

FG can’t look after everything hence their being councils.

The government has a minister whose responsibility is housing. He sets out the guidelines or not in his case.

Only FG can change the law to allow rentals without cooking facilities. Local councils don't have that power.

You always try to pass the buck. It can never be FGs fault for anything. I'm assuming by your deflecting that you have not brought these issues up with FG Td or councilors.

Gatling

eviltwin wrote: »

I work in a hub. Just to clarify, we don't charge rent it's DCC who charge it and set the rate. We just collect it. DCC also house people in hostels and hotels so they may also collect a rent from those residents.

Very much appreciated for the information ,

I said already said people in hubs pay where as in hotels and b&bs they don't which another poster is trying to suggest every one is paying based off your post ,

Is it around 40 pw contribution

Sleeper12

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

Be honest you have no idea of the percentage who actually pay it?

You have no idea of the percentage that don't pay for emergency accommodation. You are just guessing yourself in fairness

Sleeper12

Gatling wrote:

I said already said people in hubs pay where as in hotels and b&bs they don't which another poster is trying to suggest every one is paying based off your post ,

Not true. There is another poster who was in emergency accommodation and he paid. There is a patten here. People on the front line reporting payment & people guessing & assuming saying otherwise without any facts or figures to back it up. The same people seem to have no interest in telling our government or minister for housing that they should change the law and allow collection of rent.

No point giving out here saying its not right. We can't change anything. Tell FG. The minister is FG

Gatling

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Well it seems that the government agrees with me that they cannot charge rent for accommodation without cooking facilities,

They can't change rent where they is no cooking facilities, you have to move weekly or byweekly or you get kicked out for 12 hours a day 7 days a week.

Your again misrepresentations hotels charge a fee they are not private rentals show us where a hotel is considered under private rentals regulations ,

It actually sounds like your making it up as you go along,

The only reason people are not being asked to contribute to the long term stays in hotels is likely more to do with the government being afraid of a moral outrage that people are being asked to contribute to their hotel rooms while turning down multiple offers of social housing.

It's absolutely nothing to do with rental regulations and you know this

eviltwin

You can't turn down multiple offers of council housing if you are in emergency accommodation, your placement will be cancelled.

Sleeper12

Gatling wrote:

Your again misrepresentations hotels charge a fee they are not private rentals show us where a hotel is considered under private rentals regulations ,

You are missing a very important point. The hotels do not rent the rooms to the homeless. The state rent the rooms. The homeless people staying there stay with totally different rules to the guests. The homeless people have no contract with the hotel. They aren't their landlords. The state is the landlord. The homeless people are housed there by the state. If the state can change rent then FG need a kick in the arse. Why isn't the housing minister doing something about this?

Gatling

eviltwin wrote: »

You can't turn down multiple offers of council housing if you are in emergency accommodation, your placement will be cancelled.

Actually it's well documented it's happening on the basis of hundreds of offers likely thousands of housing offers over the last few years are getting turned down ,
It's likely why they want everyone moved to hubs so they have actual some control ,

I happen to work in education and I regularly talk to parents have turned down offers to the point they were taken off the housing list still in a hotel and returned to the list by local councillor's

Gatling

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You are missing a very important point. The hotels do not rent the rooms to the homeless

Yes , yes they do and the tax payer me you and another + others foot the bill ,

The government is not their landlord neither is the hotel it's a simple business agreement and nothing more ,
The government pays the hotels ,we pay the government our taxes ,the people living in hotels and b&bs pay nothing .

I'm not talking hubs or St vincent.de Paul services .

eviltwin

Gatling wrote: »

Actually it's well documented it's happening on the basis of hundreds of offers likely thousands of housing offers over the last few years are getting turned down ,
It's likely why they want everyone moved to hubs so they have actual some control ,

I happen to work in education and I regularly talk to parents have turned down offers to the point they were taken off the housing list still in a hotel and returned to the list by local councillor's

Oh I know it happens it just can't happen in a hub without good reason otherwise you get put back into a hotel or hostel.

Gatling

eviltwin wrote: »

Oh I know it happens it just can't happen in a hub without good reason otherwise you get put back into a hotel or hostel.

That's why I like the idea of hubs there is some degree of control ,and less messing ,,


But hypothetical situation you move from hotel to a Hub and either turn down housing without good reason or say cause trouble you then get sent back to a hotel or b&b which likely would be paid for it's almost win/win for someone if inclined to take advantage .

I like the model they use in London turn down housing without good reason including housing sourced outside London by the local authorities your then discharged from their duty of care you then have to source and pay for your own accommodation

eviltwin

Gatling wrote: »

That's why I like the idea of hubs there is some degree of control ,and less messing ,,


But hypothetical situation you move from hotel to a Hub and either turn down housing without good reason or say cause trouble you then get sent back to a hotel or b&b which likely would be paid for it's almost win/win for someone if inclined to take advantage .

I like the model they use in London turn down housing without good reason including housing sourced outside London by the local authorities your then discharged from their duty of care you then have to source and pay for your own accommodation

Hubs are more than just accommodation, you have a case worker who helps you develop in a way that makes you more attractive to a potential landlord. People in hotels don't have that. I'd like to see someone moved out of a hub and back into a hotel if it means someone who actually wants that help gets a place.

Sleeper12

Gatling wrote:

I'm not talking hubs or St vincent.de Paul services .

Neither am I

Gatling wrote:

Yes , yes they do and the tax payer me you and another + others foot the bill ,

Only the government can change this.

Gatling wrote:

The government is not their landlord neither is the hotel it's a simple business agreement and nothing more , The government pays the hotels ,we pay the government our taxes ,the people living in hotels and b&bs pay nothing .

It's a business agreement with the state & the hotel. The homeless people aren't hotel guests. They have different rules and regulations and can't avail of the facilities like a regular guest. The homeless people have an agreement with the state & not the hotel. The government rent the rooms & house the homeless there. It is housing. It becomes housing in the same way that privately owned property rented through HAP becomes social housing. The state are the landlord or at least they become the landlord if they charge rent. The government know this & it does not matter how many people jump up & down here the government won't charge rent because they become landlords and it leaves them wide open to having to follow laws and legislation.

If you believe they can charge rent please explain why the government isn't charging rent? What reason do you think is stopping them? You know there has to be a reason

Gatling

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If you believe they can charge rent please explain why the government isn't charging rent? What reason do you think is stopping them? You know there has to be a reason

I already said it's down to fear moral outrage , but yet you pay to stay in a hub ,

Again it's absolutely nothing to do with rental standards ,or lease agreements ,

If the government said tomorrow that from next week people will have to pay 60% of their income to cover the cost of a long term hotel stay you will see people suddenly not wanting to live in a hotel where they actually have to contribute.

eviltwin

Gatling wrote: »

I already said it's down to fear moral outrage , but yet you pay to stay in a hub ,

Again it's absolutely nothing to do with rental standards ,or lease agreements ,

If the government said tomorrow that from next week people will have to pay 60% of their income to cover the cost of a long term hotel stay you will see people suddenly not wanting to live in a hotel where they actually have to contribute.

But then where do they go? No government is going to put families with children out on the streets.

Sleeper12

Gatling wrote:

I already said it's down to fear moral outrage , but yet you pay to stay in a hub ,

They wasted billions on Irish water. They lied about no homeless people ever needing to stay in a hostel or hotel. They lied about no woman would have to go to court. FG have no shame a little moral outrage wouldn't bother them. Regardless you do know that it's the government's fault that these people don't pay rent? The outrage on the thread suggests that it's the homeless people at fault that the government won't charge them rent. You can see how ridiculous this is right?

Wheeliebin30

So a councilor has come out and said people aren’t paying anything in hotels and and are deliberately going homeless to get a house.

How refreshing.

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

With children? Getting them ready for school, travelling on two buses to get them to school and then after school stook in a room with nowhere to play?

Being a guest in a hotel & actually living in one are two totally different things

No, to end up in that situation quite a few things have to happen. I have either been lucky or my path through life has enabled me not to be in that situation.

Wheeliebin30

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

So a councilor has come out and said people aren’t paying anything in hotels and and are deliberately going homeless to get a house.

How refreshing.

It's a significant issue, many of them will refuse rented accomodation from private landlords too as it doesn't suit them for whatever reason.

Take away all those wasters and the crisis might be manageable.

Gimme A Pound

riclad wrote: »

Did you ever stay in emergency accomodation ?
People in hotels have to back in every night by a certain time,
11pm approx, you have a tv , one kettle to make tea.
no cooking facilty,s .
i don,t think they should pay anything.
Its not very luxurious accomodation .

Not anything?

So there is the wage for housekeeping staff, the electricity, heating, rates, commercial water... how can it be free?