Should people in emergency accommodation be made pay for their stay?

Wanderer78

Augeo wrote:

Lad on camera reckons his kids are sick of McDonald's, burger king etc etc .... when he gets his forever home I doubt he will be in the kitchen doing the dinner of an evening.

prejudice maybe?

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

prejudice maybe?

Opinion really.
You reckon he'll be doing homemade lasagna etc no doubt .

Wanderer78

Augeo wrote: »

Opinion really.
You reckon he'll be doing homemade lasagna etc no doubt .

oh no, its fine example of prejudice, but maybe thats just my opinion!

Old diesel

Deleted User wrote: »

firstly, owning a house is not the conversation. thats a very very high bar to set as "not homeless" and that has to be called out at every opportunity.

secondly, and i appreciate you typed a long response, but the minority example offered of someone with a genuine case and a very specific need is not a good one to offer. nobody is arguing that these cases should be in the situation they are in but a battle of the anecdotes is no way to solve anything.

its the majority of the 10000 registered as utterly helpless that gum up the works, the lists and the attention.

The only reliable way to make a home for yourself is if you can get a mortgage high enough to buy a house.

A tenant cannot create supply - no matter how hard they work.

The RTE investigates programme the other nighf showed how even a working family can be in a position of neither been able to afford to buy or rent.

There is no amount of hard work that will stop your landlord wanting or needing to sell up.

No amount of hard work on a tenants part will make a new rental add itself to the supply of rental.

What can a homeless person "who isn't really homeless"* or any tenant do to get more supply of homes available to them.

*according to some

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

oh no, its fine example of prejudice, but maybe thats just my opinion!

You generally don't have an opinion of your own..... iirc you're a copy & paste merchant of various lefty speels with some banks create the money twaddle thrown in for optics.

Old diesel

Old diesel wrote: »

The only reliable way to make a home for yourself is if you can get a mortgage high enough to buy a house.

A tenant cannot create supply - no matter how hard they work.

The RTE investigates programme the other nighf showed how even a working family can be in a position of neither been able to afford to buy or rent.

There is no amount of hard work that will stop your landlord wanting or needing to sell up.

No amount of hard work on a tenants part will make a new rental add itself to the supply of rental.

What can a homeless person "who isn't really homeless"* or any tenant do to get more supply of homes available to them.

*according to some

you repeating that a home isnt a home if you don't own it will not make this true.

if this is your fundamental case we have nothing to discuss.

you will of course put front and centre in all your posts on the topic that you think there are several hundred thousand homeless families in ireland- i think its fair to set your stall out so that others can make an informed decision on debating this with you, dont you?

on that note, enjoy the rest of the thread.

mkdon

Augeo wrote: »

Rte news....majority of folk in emergency accommodation get their meals provided or have access to kitchen facilities.

Lad on camera reckons his kids are sick of McDonald's, burger king etc etc .... when he gets his forever home I doubt he will be in the kitchen doing the dinner of an evening.

true lucky for them ..free everything

Old diesel

Augeo wrote: »

Rte news....majority of folk in emergency accommodation get their meals provided or have access to kitchen facilities.

Lad on camera reckons his kids are sick of McDonald's, burger king etc etc .... when he gets his forever home I doubt he will be in the kitchen doing the dinner of an evening.

RTE news was reporting on a charity supplying meals to people because......

They don't actually get meals provided in the B & Bs and hotels - and have to buy takeout food.

Mike Allen of Focus Ireland also raised this lack of food provision when he went on Sean O Rourkes show with the councillor whose proposals kicked off this exact thread.

Mike Allen was actually citing it as the reason people don't get charged rent etc for the hotel rooms i recall

Sleeper12

Augeo wrote:

Rte news....majority of folk in emergency accommodation get their meals provided or have access to kitchen facilities.

Old diesel wrote:

RTE news was reporting on a charity supplying meals to people because......

People choose to believe untruths to suit their mantra of they are all scammers.

Why people choose to believe this nonsense is beyond me. Most people involved in homeless charities don't get paid. They donate their time free of charge. These people are on the front line. There is no way in hell they would continue to volunteer if most were scammers. The figure is about 10 percent but posters in their nice and warm homes & offices actually think that they no more about it than people on the front line.

Old diesel

Sleeper12 wrote: »

People choose to believe untruths to suit their mantra of they are all scammers.

Why people choose to believe this nonsense is beyond me. Most people involved in homeless charities don't get paid. They donate their time free of charge. These people are on the front line. There is no way in hell they would continue to volunteer if most were scammers. The figure is about 10 percent but posters in their nice and warm homes & offices actually think that they no more about it than people on the front line.

I was trying to point out that people don't get meals in their emergency accommodation and that was why the charity is trying to step in to deliver meals

Sleeper12

Old diesel wrote:

Mike Allen was actually citing it as the reason people don't get charged rent etc for the hotel rooms i recall

It's the same point I made a few days ago. It's illegal to rent accommodation without cooking facilities. Any landlord knows this. The people aren't staying in a hotel room as they such. There are camp beds crammed into the room to fit a family into a double or twin room. The hotel wouldn't be allowed to rent a room so crammed.

Sleeper12

Old diesel wrote:

I was trying to point out that people don't get meals in their emergency accommodation and that was why the charity is trying to step in to deliver meals

I saw that.

I was comparing one post reporting a half truth to suit their narrative with your factual post

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

very, very, seldom, and hardly at all without other more relevant dimensions to the case.

are you claiming they're a significant amount?

i haven't, that i recall, linked house refusals to the present discussion.

i have pointed out that fuzzy concepts and language only seem to go one way, so, again:

homeless vs "homeless"


there are very few of the former in ireland, and in the vast majority of those cases there are significant issues totally separate to housing to be addressed first

and, again, "scammers" vs "people who are doing very little to help themselves"

sleeper12 wants to reproach us sceptics for suggesting that the current boom in emergency accommodation required is being manipulated by the media, by political parties, by the applicants and by the charities benefitting from the attention and funds thus generated.

they keep lamenting the idea of "scammers" which seems to be a very narrow definition of explicit abuse/cheating of the system.

ive rather pointed out that what people are sick of is the acceptance that 10000 people cant meet their own housing need and nothing should be asked about that.

the majority of these people have the capacity to contribute and choose not to, and apparently thats the end of the discussion- we're paying for them, that's that.

so rather than an attempt to make this discussion about the very unrepresentative hard-luck story of someone who is genuinely unable to work or who has always worked and is now somehow without the means to meet their own housing need, and rather than fudge between actually homeless vs spending the year or two in the hotel for list-jumping purposes, lets talk about the majority of this 10000.

people who dont want to work and who want you to pay for it.[/QUOTE]

Prove it first? Stop fudging please. :rolleyes:

yogmeister

riclad wrote: »

Did you ever stay in emergency accomodation ?
People in hotels have to back in every night by a certain time,
11pm approx, you have a tv , one kettle to make tea.
no cooking facilty,s .
i don,t think they should pay anything.
Its not very luxurious accomodation .

And your point is, they should be fxxcking ecstatic to have that. At least there is a roof and somewhere warm for them to stay. And it's not supposed to be luxurious. It's emergency accommodation.

Sleeper12

yogmeister wrote:

And your point is, they should be fxxcking ecstatic to have that. At least there is a roof and somewhere warm for them to stay. And it's not supposed to be luxurious. It's emergency accommodation.

The point being made was that the government can't charge rent for that. It does not meat the minimum rental standards that they set out. No one suggested that the homeless people staying there weren't grateful

yogmeister

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The point being made was that the government can't charge rent for that. It does not meat the minimum rental standards that they set out. No one suggested that the homeless people staying there weren't grateful

They should still pay a minimum charge, they have a roof over their heads.

Wanderer78

I see some of boards sociopaths have made it onto this thread also

Sleeper12

yogmeister wrote:

They should still pay a minimum charge, they have a roof over their heads.

It's all well and good say that but there is legislation in place stopping landlords from charging rent without cooking facilities. If the government breaks the law on this what is to stop landlords no longer providing kitchens or repairing kitchen appliances?