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Rented apartment sold - Landlord wants me out before lockdown even ends

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Comments

  • #102
    3DataModem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,028 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Melanchthon wrote: »
    Having to move is a stressful, expensive, disruptive thing to do particularly when not your choice.

    I am not advocating anything amoral. Why should a tenant have to move when they don't have to for some chancer.

    Because they agreed to?


  • #103
    3DataModem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,028 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Read the post by bitent who is the op and started the thread.

    They state they were given no notice other then the house was sold and 3 weeks to leave....

    It's the 1st post.

    They agreed a month verbally with the landlord. I know that agreement is not enforceable by law, but it is relevant.


  • #104
    meijin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,266 ✭✭✭meijin


    Great post dennyk, just a small note on the part bellow
    dennyk wrote: »
    Then you should continue to look for other accommodations, and once you find one, let your landlord know (whether that's your current landlord or your new one), and it's likely they'll be willing to agree to an earlier mutual end date for your tenancy at that point.

    Once OP gets the valid notice, they're free to leave at any point, even the next day if that suits. There is no need to agree on any earlier mutual date. Please see some references to RTB rulings in my post a while ago https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112183070&postcount=15


  • #105
    Winegum1
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Winegum1


    meijin wrote: »
    Great post dennyk, just a small note on the part bellow



    Once OP gets the valid notice, they're free to leave at any point, even the next day if that suits. There is no need to agree on any earlier mutual date. Please see some references to RTB rulings in my post a while ago https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112183070&postcount=15

    Would you know if he would get his deposit back too ? I'm in a bit of a situation myself.
    Landlord was looking for access to our house but wouldn't tell us why. .
    We were back and forth saying what do you need and we'll help you, its a level 5 lock down.
    He starts telling us its in our interest to cooperate going forward then says he's required by law to get an updated ber.
    1 week later he tells us he's selling and we get an official notice to leave signed by solicitor.
    Hes being funny about deposit.

    Sorry for jumping on board here but its kind of on the same vein


  • #106
    MacDanger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    3DataModem wrote: »
    They already did reach an agreement of a months notice (according to the OP) however this no longer suits the OP, so he is looking for ways to not honour that verbal agreement. Of which of course there are many, because the law and RTB are on OPs side and the landlord has no way of enforcing anything except the strict letter of the law.

    What agreement are you talking about? There's nothing in the OP that mentions an agreement


  • #107
    meijin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,266 ✭✭✭meijin


    Winegum1 wrote: »
    Would you know if he would get his deposit back too ? I'm in a bit of a situation myself.

    yes, please read the post I've linked and the RTB cases

    if he doesn't pay, you'd need to open a case with RTB


  • #108
    Winegum1
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Winegum1


    meijin wrote: »
    yes, please read the post I've linked and the RTB cases

    if he doesn't pay, you'd need to open a case with RTB

    Great thanks ill take a look. He's saying we have to give him 56 days notice even if we find somewhere sooner as a matter of urgency.
    He's probably right as he knows his stuff


  • #109
    Browney7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭Browney7


    Winegum1 wrote: »
    Great thanks ill take a look. He's saying we have to give him 56 days notice even if we find somewhere sooner as a matter of urgency.
    He's probably right as he knows his stuff

    If you read the reports linked I'd expect you'll get your answer and can forward same reports to LL for his reference. If he insists on full notice and doesn't return deposit you open a case with RTB


  • #110
    meijin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,266 ✭✭✭meijin


    Winegum1 wrote: »
    Great thanks ill take a look. He's saying we have to give him 56 days notice even if we find somewhere sooner as a matter of urgency.
    He's probably right as he knows his stuff

    No, if he gave you notice it would need to say "on or before".

    "before" means even the next day. You don't need to give any notice from your side in that case (but it would be courteous of course to let him know).


  • #111
    Winegum1
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Winegum1


    Browney7 wrote: »
    If you read the reports linked I'd expect you'll get your answer and can forward same reports to LL for his reference. If he insists on full notice and doesn't return deposit you open a case with RTB

    Thanks a mill for the advice.

    In a non covid world we would be well shot of the place. Its dripping with mould in every room and I'm on an inhaler since last year and I don't even smoke.
    But when the world decides to try and end in the middle of it with no where to go and he send thinly veiled threats by text after all we've had to put up with here, rats included I think he's the LL that gives the good guys a bad name


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  • #112
    Winegum1
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Winegum1


    meijin wrote: »
    No, if he gave you notice it would need to say "on or before".

    "before" means even the next day. You don't need to give any notice from your side in that case (but it would be courteous of course to let him know).

    We have to be out 4 months from the notice which was sent about 2 or 3 weeks ago. He said in those 4 months if we go we have to give 56 days notice from the time we tell him we are going.


  • #113
    dennyk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭dennyk


    Winegum1 wrote: »
    We have to be out 4 months from the notice which was sent about 2 or 3 weeks ago. He said in those 4 months if we go we have to give 56 days notice from the time we tell him we are going.

    He's incorrect on two counts here. First, all notice periods are paused during the Level 5 lockdown and for ten days following the lifting of Level 5 restrictions. We were already in Level 5 two or three weeks ago, and the earliest that the restrictions will be lifted is on March 5th, so your 120 day notice period doesn't start counting until March 15th at the earliest (and possibly longer if the restrictions are extended or if Level 5 restrictions are imposed again later during the notice period). As such, you won't be legally required to vacate the property until mid-July or so at the earliest.

    Second, as meijin posted, this RTB decision clearly indicates that once your landlord has given notice, you are free to vacate the property and terminate your tenancy at any time before the termination date provided in the notice, and you only owe rent through the date you vacate:
    As a notice of termination had been served by the Appellant Landlord, albeit that it was invalid, the Respondent Tenants were only under an obligation to pay rent until such time as they vacated the dwelling, given that under s. 62 they are required to vacate the dwelling “on or before” the termination date. In those circumstances, the Appellant Landlord was not entitled to retain the deposit and should have returned it to the Respondent Tenants.


  • #114
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    grogi wrote: »
    That might not be OPs house, but it is his home.

    Doesn't matter. He can go buy his own house then do as he plans


  • #115
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    Doesn't matter. He can go buy his own house then do as he plans

    Home is a home whether owned or not....

    I'm glad I got a mortgage, pay less then rent, have something at the end of it

    7 years wasted paying others mortgage for them and then they have a nice nest egg to sell or continue to rent.


  • #116
    Winegum1
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Winegum1


    dennyk wrote: »
    He's incorrect on two counts here. First, all notice periods are paused during the Level 5 lockdown and for ten days following the lifting of Level 5 restrictions. We were already in Level 5 two or three weeks ago, and the earliest that the restrictions will be lifted is on March 5th, so your 120 day notice period doesn't start counting until March 15th at the earliest (and possibly longer if the restrictions are extended or if Level 5 restrictions are imposed again later during the notice period). As such, you won't be legally required to vacate the property until mid-July or so at the earliest.

    Second, as meijin posted, this RTB decision clearly indicates that once your landlord has given notice, you are free to vacate the property and terminate your tenancy at any time before the termination date provided in the notice, and you only owe rent through the date you vacate:

    Fantastic to know and again thanks for the info.
    I'll get all of my information together tonight and send it off to him.


  • #117
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Home is a home whether owned or not....

    I'm glad I got a mortgage, pay less then rent, have something at the end of it

    7 years wasted paying others mortgage for them and then they have a nice nest egg to sell or continue to rent.

    In one sense yes and I see your meaning but when we take a rental we know it is not for life; that we do not own it and that there are ways in which we can legally be made to leave. That is the hard fact of renting.


  • #118
    grogi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    Graces7 wrote: »
    In one sense yes and I see your meaning but when we take a rental we know it is not for life; that we do not own it and that there are ways in which we can legally be made to leave. That is the hard fact of renting.

    Nobody is assuming that. Plans change, needs change - people move in and out. That's life.

    Nevertheless the tenant is a human being and should be treated as such. That's the tenant's home and should be able to expect stability with the place they live in. That's why we tenant protection laws and they generally are a good thing.

    In Ireland unfortunately the protection extends a bit too much IMHO and a lot of tenants exploit the system. One should be getting all the protection they need only if they keep their side of the deal. In cases where tenants that don't, like forgetting to pay for a longer period of time or to care for the property, the protection should lapse pretty quickly.


  • #119
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,295 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    grogi wrote: »
    Nobody is assuming that. Plans change, needs change - people move in and out. That's life.

    Nevertheless the tenant is a human being and should be treated as such.y.

    Every tenant is a human being. The law assumes as much.


  • #120
    3DataModem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,028 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    MacDanger wrote: »
    What agreement are you talking about? There's nothing in the OP that mentions an agreement

    4th post, also by OP.


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  • #121
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Every tenant is a human being. The law assumes as much.

    Exactly and that does not mean that tenancies are not finite; that was the point I was making. Tenancies are essentially finite. And vulnerable. We tenants have to accept that this is only our temporary dwelling. Owned by someone else. The emotive use of the word " home" is misleading. I have rented for some 20 years and have never regarded that place as my " home " in the real sense of the word.


  • #122
    dennyk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭dennyk


    3DataModem wrote: »
    4th post, also by OP.

    Such an agreement would be contrary to the law and would not be valid. In any case, that post doesn't specify what the OP actually agreed to in terms of notice; the term "month-to-month" is commonly used to refer to a periodic tenancy (i.e. one without a fixed term), but that doesn't mean that such a tenancy would require only a month's notice period for either party to end it (even if it were legal to enter into such an agreement before the fact, which it is not).


  • #123
    3DataModem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,028 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    dennyk wrote: »
    Such an agreement would be contrary to the law and would not be valid.

    It's valid all right. You just mean it is not legally enforceable.
    dennyk wrote: »
    In any case, that post doesn't specify what the OP actually agreed to in terms of notice; the term "month-to-month" is commonly used to refer to a periodic tenancy (i.e. one without a fixed term), but that doesn't mean that such a tenancy would require only a month's notice period for either party to end it (even if it were legal to enter into such an agreement before the fact, which it is not).

    I agree that it is not legally enforceable. But two people can agree something and then honour that agreement (if it suits them both).

    But many times in this forum landlords (and tenants) are advised to simply talk to the other party to agree something between them... which is great advice. The problems occur when one party does not do this in good faith.


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