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Law Firm Milkrounds 20/21

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  • Options
    #1772
    TCPIP
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭TCPIP


    FE1Rookie wrote: »
    Anyone applied to Shields Sadlier here? Wondering what they're like to work for/interview for.

    I have but haven't heard anything back yet. Have you?


  • Options
    #1773
    SKLaw
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭SKLaw


    FE1Rookie wrote: »
    Anyone applied to Shields Sadlier here? Wondering what they're like to work for/interview for.

    I have but haven’t heard anything from them


  • Options
    #1774
    SKLaw
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭SKLaw


    Lallers96 wrote: »
    Need to go on a bit of a rant before I shoot myself in the foot and say something I shouldn't to my managing partner.

    Can someone who has began their TC, or previously done so, please tell me that this is normal. I'm about to finish my 2nd week in office training and I haven't done tap all to do with solicitor related work. All I've done is secretarial work which, I'm sorry, is a ridiculously boring job that I didn't sign up for. I wouldn't mind if I was given stuff to do and I'm constantly chasing every solicitor every day at multiple times in the day to help out but they don't give me much to do, if anything.

    I've kept a record of what I've done and it's pathetic what I've learned so far. All I've done is file stuff online and go through a grubby old archive room, finding the odd document a solicitor needs but can't be bothered to look themselves for it. I've been moved around between 2 offices constantly and conveniently it's always to be there when one secretary is off that day. The "main office" that I'm in I'm literally sitting in the same desk as a secretary who's on maternity leave. All I really do is look at a handful of emails that come through, forward them onto the relevant solicitor and answer the occasional phone call if one of the other secretaries can't be bothered to answer it.

    Because of how hard a TC is I'm going to just have to stick it out, but my gut is telling me that I'm being completely used by this company and I'm just minimum wage, cheap cover for a secretary that's on maternity and on some days where the 1 secretary in the 2nd office is on their day off. I'm actually scared that I'm being taken for a ride here and the moment the main secretary is back I'll be dumped by them and I'll be left still looking for a TC and have learned nothing.

    I know it sounds so uppity but I didn't study law for 6 years to sit at a desk answering calls and reading about 5 emails in the day, praying for 5pm to come quicker. I hate the work I've been given so far, bar the odd odd job I've been given that seems somewhat solicitor related.

    Does anyone have any experiences that were similar? Am I actually being taken for granted here, or am I just over thinking things?

    I’ve been a legal sec for a small general practice and honestly, my work was both legal sec and what would normally be given to a trainee. They knew I was eventually going to go on to do a traineeship so they trusted me to do more trainee-like work. I feel like it is dependent on the firm and your mentor.

    Do you think you could try to talk to the managing partner about this? Maybe ask that you can sit in during the meetings or do the court filings or assist one of them in court even? They were things I was able to do as a legal sec in a general practice so if I was able to do that, without a doubt you’re also able to do that especially because you’re a trainee.


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    #1775
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Lallers96 wrote: »
    Thanks for your detailed response. To give you a better view of things based on what you've said, I am manning the phones and I have yet to sit in on any client meetings, I have yet to go to court with a solicitor, I havent come close to preparing a brief, bar binding the brief haha.

    Photocopying and scanning yes, and I understand you'll be doing that loads in any office related position so that makes sense however easy it is to do. I haven't drafted any legal documents yet or anything of the sort. Nearest thing I got was witnessing an already done will and serving summons to someone which wasn't a nice job at all but had to be done.

    I agree with you and I will be continuing to look elsewhere in case they are pulling a fast one on me. But beggars can't be choosers either which sucks because I can barely afford the petrol it's costing me to work

    I would suggest arranging a sit down with the managing partner and discussing how you are going to be trained. In a small practice it may not be feasible to do 6 months in rotation like in the larger firms, but you could even rotate on a weekly basis through departments.

    They really should have a plan on what your training contract will comprise of. I don't care how big or small a firm is, if they are taking on a trainee then they need to have a plan in place as to how they will train the trainee.

    You should be able to look at each week and say to yourself "I learnt X this week".

    Remeber, this is your future you are talking about. Answering phones and photocopying will not skill you in how to be a solicitor. I would be willing to walk away if they weren't going to take it seriously.


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    #1776
    awsah
    Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭awsah


    able1 wrote: »
    I would suggest arranging a sit down with the managing partner and discussing how you are going to be trained. In a small practice it may not be feasible to do 6 months in rotation like in the larger firms, but you could even rotate on a weekly basis through departments.

    They really should have a plan on what your training contract will comprise of. I don't care how big or small a firm is, if they are taking on a trainee then they need to have a plan in place as to how they will train the trainee.

    You should be able to look at each week and say to yourself "I learnt X this week".

    Remeber, this is your future you are talking about. Answering phones and photocopying will not skill you in how to be a solicitor. I would be willing to walk away if they weren't going to take it seriously.

    I would agree with this, what good is it to you to be fully qualified if all you have learnt is office admin, it won't help you in an interview for a solicitor position. I work in a small firm and I have to do some admin work but I am also being trained so that once I am qualified I will have done a lot of the work of a solicitor already. You won't last long as a solicitor in a company if you are going to need to be trained in basic skills.

    I would definitely speak to the manager and say you don't mind helping out while ur one is gone on mat leave but you are a trainee solicitor and you expect to be given tasks that reflects that. If they can't accommodate you then at least you know now and you gave some time to look for another contact before october!


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    #1777
    Lallers96
    Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭Lallers96


    Yeah my only concern is that I'm being trained properly and when a day comes where no solicitors are in office, yet I'm still in doing nothing all day. It's just a waste of my time. Money isn't a concern for me as I could be earning more in a different line of work, I'm only willing to take the hit now on min wage in exchange for proper training.

    I'll have to have a chat with my managing partner and ask for more work but obviously make it serious because I've asked until the cows come home and I don't get a lot. Maybe now that it's week 3 he will just pile on the work. I hope.


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    #1778
    Fe1forthefun
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭Fe1forthefun


    Lallers96 wrote: »
    Need to go on a bit of a rant before I shoot myself in the foot and say something I shouldn't to my managing partner.

    Can someone who has began their TC, or previously done so, please tell me that this is normal. I'm about to finish my 2nd week in office training and I haven't done tap all to do with solicitor related work. All I've done is secretarial work which, I'm sorry, is a ridiculously boring job that I didn't sign up for. I wouldn't mind if I was given stuff to do and I'm constantly chasing every solicitor every day at multiple times in the day to help out but they don't give me much to do, if anything.

    I've kept a record of what I've done and it's pathetic what I've learned so far. All I've done is file stuff online and go through a grubby old archive room, finding the odd document a solicitor needs but can't be bothered to look themselves for it. I've been moved around between 2 offices constantly and conveniently it's always to be there when one secretary is off that day. The "main office" that I'm in I'm literally sitting in the same desk as a secretary who's on maternity leave. All I really do is look at a handful of emails that come through, forward them onto the relevant solicitor and answer the occasional phone call if one of the other secretaries can't be bothered to answer it.

    Because of how hard a TC is I'm going to just have to stick it out, but my gut is telling me that I'm being completely used by this company and I'm just minimum wage, cheap cover for a secretary that's on maternity and on some days where the 1 secretary in the 2nd office is on their day off. I'm actually scared that I'm being taken for a ride here and the moment the main secretary is back I'll be dumped by them and I'll be left still looking for a TC and have learned nothing.

    I know it sounds so uppity but I didn't study law for 6 years to sit at a desk answering calls and reading about 5 emails in the day, praying for 5pm to come quicker. I hate the work I've been given so far, bar the odd odd job I've been given that seems somewhat solicitor related.

    Does anyone have any experiences that were similar? Am I actually being taken for granted here, or am I just over thinking things?

    I think this is fairly normal in the first few weeks of work. I wouldn't sweat it. Do every task you are given as best you can. Admin and secretarial work is something you will be doing your whole life to some extent. They don't know or trust you yet.

    Positive attitude and volunteering to help with matters as they arise will go a long way.

    You've been there literally 3 weeks, I think you are jumping to conclusions. Your attitude stinks a bit.


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    #1779
    Lallers96
    Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭Lallers96


    Fe1forthefun wrote: »
    I think this is fairly normal in the first few weeks of work. I wouldn't sweat it. Do every task you are given as best you can. Admin and secretarial work is something you will be doing your whole life to some extent. They don't know or trust you yet.

    Positive attitude and volunteering to help with matters as they arise will go a long way.

    You've been there literally 3 weeks, I think you are jumping to conclusions. Your attitude stinks a bit.

    I'm doing everything you've said to do. Thankfully I've had a very good chat with my managing partner and I think he was able to read between the lines and realised I was worried. I don't see how my attitude stinks. I just want solicitor work piled on me so I'm not staring at a clock learning nothing :rolleyes:


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    #1780
    FE1Rookie
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭FE1Rookie


    Shes probably just freaked out, chill guys.


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    #1781
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Fe1forthefun wrote: »
    I think this is fairly normal in the first few weeks of work. I wouldn't sweat it. Do every task you are given as best you can. Admin and secretarial work is something you will be doing your whole life to some extent. They don't know or trust you yet.

    Positive attitude and volunteering to help with matters as they arise will go a long way.

    You've been there literally 3 weeks, I think you are jumping to conclusions. Your attitude stinks a bit.

    No, their attitude doesn’t stink. They were hired as a trainee solicitor and only seem to be given secretarial work to do. That’s not good enough.

    I’ve worked for several years in legal support and solicitors do no admin or secretarial work. That type of work is left to the secretaries. Everything from filing to brief binding to photocopying to manning reception, all support staff and never trainee solicitors or fully qualified solicitors. They don’t have time for the admin stuff which is why they have support staff in the first place.

    The poster is right to be concerned about the quality of the training contract they are getting. At least they’ve had a chat with the managing partner and hopefully things will improve.


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    #1782
    john_fe12020
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭john_fe12020


    Has anyone heard anything back from Philip Lee regarding their TC? Applications closed almost three weeks ago


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    #1783
    Aisbash
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭Aisbash


    Anyone starting in Dublin in August looking for a roommate?


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    #1784
    Lawlz
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭Lawlz


    Hi all,

    Can anyone please clarify if firms are OBLIGED to pay you while on PPC1 if fees are paid?

    The TC starts 14 days AFTER PPC1 so I’m wondering what the story is while in Blackhall.

    Also- has anyone come across a fees + stipend instead of wages situation?


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    #1785
    FE1Hopefully1
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭FE1Hopefully1


    Lawlz wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Can anyone please clarify if firms are OBLIGED to pay you while on PPC1 if fees are paid?

    The TC starts 14 days AFTER PPC1 so I’m wondering what the story is while in Blackhall.

    Technically yes i think they are obliged but a lot don’t because no on checks it

    They are not obliged to pay your blackhall fees if they pay your fees then your wage can be reduced depending on how much if your fees they are paying


  • Options
    #1786
    Lawlz
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭Lawlz


    FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »
    Technically yes i think they are obliged but a lot don’t because no on checks it

    They are not obliged to pay your blackhall fees


    Thanks for your response.

    I seem to have a fees paid + stipend situation vs wages so I’m trying to figure out how common that is.


  • Options
    #1787
    awsah
    Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭awsah


    Lawlz wrote: »
    Thanks for your response.

    I seem to have a fees paid + stipend situation vs wages so I’m trying to figure out how common that is.

    There is something on the ppc1 application which shows how much you should be getting paid based on whether your fees are being paid or not, I think if fees are paid you should be getting about 240e/week while in blackhall

    Have you checked to see if you qualify for a susi grant as you could put that towards your fees and ask the company to pay you more of a wage?


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    #1788
    FE1Hopefully1
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭FE1Hopefully1


    Lawlz wrote: »
    Thanks for your response.

    I seem to have a fees paid + stipend situation vs wages so I’m trying to figure out how common that is.

    Where the PPC I course fees are paid by the training solicitor
    75% of minimum wage (€7.65 per hour) for first third of the course (9 weeks)
    80% of minimum wage (€8.16 per hour) for the second third of the course (10 weeks)
    90% of minimum wage (€9.18 per hour) for the final portion of the course (10 weeks)
    €7.65 x 30 hours = €229.50 per week
    €8.16 x 30 hours = €244.80 per week
    €9.18 x 30 hours = €275.40 per week


    In smaller firms I’ve been told usually it’s one of the other they pay fees and no wage or pay wage and no fees


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    #1789
    Lawlz
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭Lawlz


    awsah wrote: »
    There is something on the ppc1 application which shows how much you should be getting paid based on whether your fees are being paid or not, I think if fees are paid you should be getting about 240e/week while in blackhall

    Have you checked to see if you qualify for a susi grant as you could put that towards your fees and ask the company to pay you more of a wage?



    Ya I’ve seen both of those thanks!

    I’m just wondering if anyone has a situ where they potentially won’t be paid during PPC1 because their TC starts after PPC1 and fees are paid.


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    #1790
    FE1Hopefully1
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭FE1Hopefully1


    Lawlz wrote: »
    Ya I’ve seen both of those thanks!

    I’m just wondering if anyone has a situ where they potentially won’t be paid during PPC1 because their TC starts after PPC1 and fees are paid.

    Me tbh


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    #1791
    Lawlz
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭Lawlz


    FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »
    Where the PPC I course fees are paid by the training solicitor
    75% of minimum wage (€7.65 per hour) for first third of the course (9 weeks)
    80% of minimum wage (€8.16 per hour) for the second third of the course (10 weeks)
    90% of minimum wage (€9.18 per hour) for the final portion of the course (10 weeks)
    €7.65 x 30 hours = €229.50 per week
    €8.16 x 30 hours = €244.80 per week
    €9.18 x 30 hours = €275.40 per week


    In smaller firms I’ve been told usually it’s one of the other they pay fees and no wage or pay wage and no fees


    Thanks.

    I have that smaller firm situ of fees + stipend!

    As long as it’s not completely unheard of/ off the charts then all is good!

    Cheers


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    #1792
    FE1Hopefully1
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭FE1Hopefully1


    Lawlz wrote: »
    Thanks.

    I have that smaller firm situ of fees + stipend!

    As long as it’s not completely unheard of/ off the charts then all is good!

    Cheers

    Yeah no I think it’s pretty common tbh !! Or I have been told it is anyway


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    #1793
    fe14dewin
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭fe14dewin


    Anyone hear back from Philip Lee?


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    #1794
    nicolesd
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭nicolesd


    hey guys,

    just preparing everything i need for the ppc1 application, i asked a solictor i used to work with for a character reference, she has agreed but asked me to draft it and she will sign it but can anyone let me know what i should write as i have no idea?


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    #1795
    Wonderstruck
    Registered Users Posts: 347 ✭✭Wonderstruck


    nicolesd wrote: »
    hey guys,

    just preparing everything i need for the ppc1 application, i asked a solictor i used to work with for a character reference, she has agreed but asked me to draft it and she will sign it but can anyone let me know what i should write as i have no idea?


    Simply that you're honest and trustworthy and suitable to be a solicitor, you can dress it up a bit if you wish but that is fine.:D


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    #1796
    Lallers96
    Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭Lallers96


    There's a trainee solicitor position up in Kildare on legal vacancies


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    #1797
    john_fe12020
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭john_fe12020


    fe14dewin wrote: »
    Anyone hear back from Philip Lee?

    Haven't heard anything yet, thought it was strange in the first place that they extended the application deadline due to "the large volume of applications received"...


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    #1798
    fe14dewin
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭fe14dewin


    john_fe12020 wrote: »
    Haven't heard anything yet, thought it was strange in the first place that they extended the application deadline due to "the large volume of applications received"...

    That was odd alright - I applied at the begining of the year. They seemed to have been accepting rolling applications since January.


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    #1799
    john_fe12020
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭john_fe12020


    fe14dewin wrote: »
    That was odd alright - I applied at the begining of the year. They seemed to have been accepting rolling applications since January.

    Around the same time as myself... I can only imagine with the much fewer amount of TC's going around this year that they had multiples of the amount of applications they expected! hopefully will hear soon


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    #1800
    Lallers96
    Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭Lallers96


    Going on week 5 here and still just being used as secretarial cover for 2 offices. Sick of it, but I have no choice when they say jump I say how high.

    Is this normal for a trainee to be manning the phones like a main receptionist for over a month?


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    #1801
    Bantz_Control
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Bantz_Control


    Lallers96 wrote: »
    Going on week 5 here and still just being used as secretarial cover for 2 offices. Sick of it, but I have no choice when they say jump I say how high.

    Is this normal for a trainee to be manning the phones like a main receptionist for over a month?

    No it isn't, or at least that's not how it should be, and if anybody tells you otherwise, they're not being honest.


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