Raspberry PI $25 PC

Doge · 04-11-2011 7:44pm #1

This little baby is a single board, ARM based PC that can run Linux and is planned to go on sale for 25$ next month!

301782-raspberry-pi-computer.jpg?thumb=y

The Broadcom BCM2835 chip, is what contains the ARM11 processor, as well as a full 1080p video processor, and a full hd h.264 decoder/encoder

It would make an excellent and cheap Media Centre provided it can handle it,
and XMBC are already trying to develop for it.

Some vids:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_mDuJuvZjI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I7jCSWdRLQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRqSOjtCuVI

Khannie · 11-11-2011 4:08pm

Bit of a bump, but I was just searching in case anyone had started a thread on this. I can't wait to get my hands on one of these. First lot shipping next month! That quake 3 timedemo is super impressive.

Anyone else getting one? I think I'll get the "B" version - has a 10/100 port and 256M of ram.

gouche · 11-11-2011 6:42pm

Khannie wrote: »

Bit of a bump, but I was just searching in case anyone had started a thread on this. I can't wait to get my hands on one of these. First lot shipping next month! That quake 3 timedemo is super impressive.

Anyone else getting one? I think I'll get the "B" version - has a 10/100 port and 256M of ram.

Would be quite interested in getting one to tinker with. Where you getting yours Khannie?

Spacedog · 11-11-2011 6:47pm

I'm all over this. very good idea, some old skool cheap computers kids can plug into their TVs and play about with without having to worry about deleting Mom and Dads life work by accident. Can be no bad thing.

The design is open source hardware, but sadly the components they selected are too small to make it a viable maker project. still like the idea of playing a Q3 deathmatch with a few of these bad boys strung together.

Doge · 11-11-2011 9:47pm

Spacedog wrote: »

I'm all over this. very good idea, some old skool cheap computers kids can plug into their TVs and play about with without having to worry about deleting Mom and Dads life work by accident. Can be no bad thing.

The design is open source hardware, but sadly the components they selected are too small to make it a viable maker project. still like the idea of playing a Q3 deathmatch with a few of these bad boys strung together.

A PCB can always be made with pins for inputs and outputs that are connected directed to the pins on the processor.

Things would get real interesting then.

Khannie · 14-11-2011 10:14pm

gouche wrote: »

Would be quite interested in getting one to tinker with. Where you getting yours Khannie?

They have a mailing list where they'll announce the first 10,000 units (some time in December). I'm hoping my trigger finger is fast enough.

shizz · 15-11-2011 12:14pm

Really hopw I get one of these. Which is going on sale? The smaller board in the picture or the bigger board? I remember hearing them refer to one as an alpha board. Is this the bigger one? I wouldn't mind one of them but I doubt they were on sale?

15-11-2011 5:44pm

Aside from the fact that it's a great idea for cash-constrained developing countries why would you get one if you have a pc or laptop already.....?

you'd obviously need to get a keyboard, mouse, extra-long hdmi cable too... how will they connect through one usb cable (oh add usb hub then!)

Doge · 15-11-2011 6:25pm

glasso wrote: »

Aside from the fact that it's a great idea for cash-constrained developing countries why would you get one if you have a pc or laptop already.....?

you'd obviously need to get a keyboard, mouse, extra-long hdmi cable too... how will they connect through one usb cable (oh add usb hub then!)

Its a great idea for any country imo.

1. Extremely Low Power consumption - run your torrent/download clients overnight without worrying about running up your electricity bills

2. Extremely Portable - You could throw it into your pocket, and head upto your friends house, and use it as a media centre on their TV.

Most people already have all the peripherals you mentioned,
and even if you do need to buy them, it won't set you back more than 40 quid.

Once this chip is out there's nothing to stop it being sold in a small form factor case, which has additional USB ports, that also comes with the keyboard,mouse and video cables.

Why should people in Developed countries throw big money at PC's most only use them to browse the Web and send a few e-mails?

This would fit their needs perfectly, and allow them to use their existing TV or Flat Screen.

The low price would also make it an ideal starter computer for kids,
something that you wouldn't mind breaking as it is cheap to replace.

You need to open up your eyes and see the possibilities!

I have paid close to $25 before for a Microchip PIC microcontroller, that only runs at 40mhz and has 96K of RAM,
which came with no board, just the chip itself.

So this new chip will open up the world vastly for Electronic DIY projects, and some very exciting hardware could be made with it.

Khannie · 15-11-2011 7:52pm

I'm buying two. One for my youngfella. He'll get the "A" $25 version most likely, though I'm slightly concerned about 128MB of ram with modern browsers. I'll stick a usb wlan card in it and a mouse / keyboard and hook it up to the TV in his room via HDMI. He can then stream movies from the HTPC downstairs and facebook his friends without annoying me by stealing the laptop. I also wont be upset about power consumption if he leaves it on.

The other one (the "B" $35 one) I will bring into work. I will use it for personal stuff (most likely checking personal email and occasional browsing). I'll do that by X forwarding over the network so it wont actually be hooked up to anything other than a micro USB for power and LAN for network access (X forwarding is a linux thing for you windows heads. It allows you to run an app on one machine that is displayed on another). If there is ever any problem, there's no problem. The hardware and all data on it is mine. It's mostly for fun / slightly for paranoia.

edit: I do consider this a turning point for technology though. A useful (and in fact, fast) $25 computer is an amazing achievement. 100FPS at 1080p and 4xAA'd quake 3 for $25 is shockingly good.

Khannie · 15-11-2011 8:05pm

shizz wrote: »

Really hopw I get one of these. Which is going on sale? The smaller board in the picture or the bigger board? I remember hearing them refer to one as an alpha board. Is this the bigger one? I wouldn't mind one of them but I doubt they were on sale?

They're releasing the A and B versions at the same time, with a preference for B versions (as they expect more demand for them). Not sure about board size. The boards that they're initially selling are all alpha boards (or possibly beta, but they're pre-production anyway). They'll be on sale in the next month or so.

shizz · 15-11-2011 8:15pm

Khannie wrote: »

They're releasing the A and B versions at the same time, with a preference for B versions (as they expect more demand for them). Not sure about board size. The boards that they're initially selling are all alpha boards (or possibly beta, but they're pre-production anyway). They'll be on sale in the next month or so.

ah yes I see. So the bigger board in that picture up there is the B board. I just subscribed to the mailing list. What do you reckon the chances are of getting one when it comes out?

Khannie · 16-11-2011 12:02am

Hard to say really. I expect that the first units will go quickly. Possibly in hours.

shizz · 16-11-2011 12:13am

Khannie wrote: »

Hard to say really. I expect that the first units will go quickly. Possibly in hours.

Really hope I get one. How many units they planning do you know?

Also I was wondering, would it be able to handle a bluetooth dongle, and then use that for bluetooth keyboard and the like? or is it just a matter of the drivers available for the linux distro? Probably a silly question haha

Redisle · 16-11-2011 1:30am

Definitely going to buy one or two of these! Would be fantastic just to mess around with, could stick one to the back of the monitor as a spare PC running Debian and use http://synergy-foss.org/ or vnc to control it after switching monitor inputs. Could be nice to have a spare linux box like that running when forced to use Windows for games or other software.

Another nice possible use would be to have one with a small secondary monitor and use it to run comms for games etc. Run teamspeak or similar through wine if needed. Could be very handy for home automation setups, creating a nice weather station.. the list goes on!

One thing I would like to know is the maximum SD card supported. It was asked in the comments on the website but not yet answered, if the answer is full SDHC support then there is the possibility of a 32/64 Gb SD card making a very capable pocket media player.. just plug into any modern TV/projector and away you go. If the XBMC port is succesful just run that and use existing XBMC remotes to control the device over the network.. that would require ethernet / a wifi dongle but certainly a possibility. Seriously though if this thing gets XBMC it will be a massive success. The only possible issue there is that the video decoder seems to mention H264 only so not sure if it can do the other popular formats too.

Allyall · 16-11-2011 3:39pm

I'll be definitely getting one of these. Already plenty of talk about limiting orders.

Runs off 4 x AA batteries.

Hopefully will be able to buy a few.

shizz · 16-11-2011 3:51pm

Allyall wrote: »

I'll be definitely getting one of these. Already plenty of talk about limiting orders.

Runs off 4 x AA batteries.

Hopefully will be able to buy a few.

A lads stop this talk of buying a few I only want one

Khannie · 16-11-2011 7:10pm

10,000 in the initial batch. Not sure what the initial split will be between the A and B models.

I'd say a bluetooth dongle should work fine and actually it's a good idea. Might get one myself. It's a relatively old technology at this stage. Worth checking that the one you're interested in works in linux before you buy though. If it works in linux in general, I can't see ARM linux being an issue. They're basing the main OS release off ARM fedora AFAIK.

Khannie · 16-11-2011 7:13pm

Redisle wrote: »

The only possible issue there is that the video decoder seems to mention H264 only so not sure if it can do the other popular formats too.

The other formats should be fine software decoded. They require a shed load less effort to decode (and in general, xvid / divx is generally pretty low res).

shizz · 16-11-2011 7:42pm

Khannie wrote: »

10,000 in the initial batch. Not sure what the initial split will be between the A and B models.

I'd say a bluetooth dongle should work fine and actually it's a good idea. Might get one myself. It's a relatively old technology at this stage. Worth checking that the one you're interested in works in linux before you buy though. If it works in linux in general, I can't see ARM linux being an issue. They're basing the main OS release off ARM fedora AFAIK.

Yeah i just have an old bluetooth dongle lying around at home somewhere so thought it would be good.

Fedora is redhat yeah? Any chance of a debian distro going on it?

Khannie · 16-11-2011 8:28pm

Yeah pretty sure there is an arm version of debian alright. The video I saw implied that they had an optimised version of fedora though. I'm sure there will be all sorts available within a few weeks of launch.

shizz · 16-11-2011 8:30pm

Yeah I think I read somewhere that it's shipping with fedora? I really can't wait for this. Hope I get one haha

Doge · 16-11-2011 8:55pm

The sad thing is that this whole project is targeted at young people at school, to get them into programming as cheaply and efficiently as possible,

but the reality is, that the majority of people buying it will be multimedia and entertainment lamers like ourselves!

shizz · 16-11-2011 9:06pm

Well I plan on using it alot for audrino programming. Ive had one a while now and havent gotten around to fully using it yet at all.

Khannie · 16-11-2011 10:38pm

waveform wrote: »

Tthe majority of people buying it will be multimedia and entertainment lamers like ourselves!

Haha.

Ah they said on the site they expect the initial 10,000 units to be bought by coders / geeks. I think after that market has satisfied its burning desire to own a device as cool as this it'll start hitting kids in schools. I predict a hefty rise in online Q3 multiplayer action.

shizz · 16-11-2011 10:41pm

Khannie wrote: »

Haha.

Ah they said on the site they expect the initial 10,000 units to be bought by coders / geeks. I think after that market has satisfied its burning desire to own a device as cool as this it'll start hitting kids in schools. I predict a hefty rise in online Q3 multiplayer action.

Do you reckon it could handle any of the linux FPS? Like Open arena?

mach1982 · 17-11-2011 9:35am

This devise would perfect for something like the wifi pineapple from the guys at Hak5.

Khannie · 17-11-2011 10:25am

shizz wrote: »

Do you reckon it could handle any of the linux FPS? Like Open arena?

Don't see why not. It's based on the q3 engine.

Khannie · 18-11-2011 6:41pm

So I decided to create some VM's see if 128M of ram is a reasonable amount to run a lightweight linux desktop (the same amount of RAM that the "A" board will come with).

Turns out it is and it isn't.

I tried to install lubuntu. That didn't work out so well. Then I tried puppy linux. That worked out reasonably well. It started using swap space when I fired up Opera but was still very responsive (like I wouldn't have noticed that it was using swap without actually checking). I think for light but functional browsing it should be fine. You wouldn't want to try to open up too many tabs with only 128MB of ram, but I'd say the 256MB version should be fine for most things with a lightweight distro installed.

It's not a like for like comparison because my CPU (even virtualised) is significantly faster than the one the boards will ship with. Interesting none the less.

shizz · 18-11-2011 7:16pm

Did you try xubuntu by any chance? Really liking this distro at the moment.

Doge · 20-11-2011 7:47pm

Khannie wrote: »

So I decided to create some VM's see if 128M of ram is a reasonable amount to run a lightweight linux desktop (the same amount of RAM that the "A" board will come with).

Turns out it is and it isn't.

I tried to install lubuntu. That didn't work out so well. Then I tried puppy linux. That worked out reasonably well. It started using swap space when I fired up Opera but was still very responsive (like I wouldn't have noticed that it was using swap without actually checking). I think for light but functional browsing it should be fine. You wouldn't want to try to open up too many tabs with only 128MB of ram, but I'd say the 256MB version should be fine for most things with a lightweight distro installed.

It's not a like for like comparison because my CPU (even virtualised) is significantly faster than the one the boards will ship with. Interesting none the less.

Nice little test!

To give it a more accurate simulation you could use an SD card as the virtual drive to simulate the true read and write speeds,
and also limit what % of your processor that your VM client can use (using a 3rd party app) , so it reflects something close to 700mhz!

But then again your bus speeds and ram speeds are going to be different (possibly lower) on the Raspberry PI, and also the CPU archtiecture so there's no true accurate simulation that can be done.

Khannie · 02-12-2011 11:24am

Well....it looks like the 10,000 number they were talking about is gone by the wayside. They have PCB's ready though and by god they're small (actually credit card sized).

They're doing up 100 boards now, then starting full production in January it sounds like. I'm a bit cranky that I wont get my hands on one before Christmas, but such is life.

Raspberry Pi Lady wrote:

I don’t think, sadly, that you’re going to be able to give them away as Christmas gifts this year. We will, however, be making as many of these as we can sell (not just 10k) in the new year, so I suggest you get planning for birthdays, anniversaries and wedding presents!

shizz · 21-12-2011 1:44am

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/12/meet-cubox-a-tiny-arm-powered-media-centre-capable-of-running-ubuntu/#disqus_thread

Seen this and thought some people here would be interested in it. What you think? Bit more powerful and far more capable.

Khannie · 21-12-2011 11:37am

It's a shed load more expensive. 4 times the price of the basic raspberry pi or 3 times the price of the more expensive one. Very nice though. Obviously the gig of RAM makes it capable of running a semi-decent OS interface. The laptop I'm currently using has only a gig of ram for example and I never hit swap usage (currently running ubuntu 11.04).

What does "800 MHz dual issue" mean for performance? A quick google makes it sound a bit like hyperthreading.

Tea_Bag · 21-12-2011 5:32pm

God I hate my love for gadgets. I really want one of these and I have no use for it. I've already got a powerful media center PC so no justification at all. arg

Khannie · 21-12-2011 7:29pm

I invented a need to justify it to myself.

I really have no need for one of these. The "need" that I invented was perceived ownership of any personal data that would otherwise be on my work PC and ownership of the encryption keys that I use to encrypt any data that goes in and out of the company network. Paranoia approaches 1 as age approaches death.

I am buying two though. The youngfella should get good use out of his as I have an NFS share set up on the linux based HTPC. I also don't mind if he wrecks it (software-wise) so he's free to flute around on it a bit (the intended use on their end anyway) which he wouldn't be able to do with the family laptop. Even told him I'd give him an introduction to programming if he wanted one.

Doge · 21-12-2011 8:49pm

Khannie wrote: »

The youngfella should get good use out of his as I have an NFS share set up on the linux based HTPC.

This is exactly what I want to use mine for.

The only wireless devices in the house are 2 Laptops, 1 desktop and an xbox 360.

And I'm certainly not going to leave my xbox 360 on all day as a NAS host, as it would probably burn the house down. :P
Finally I'll be able to access my external hard drive from anywhere in the house
without having to worry about power consumption
and even better I can VNC to it, to download torrents, and stream the downloads from all the other computers.

Feck it, I could use it to make our Printer wireless also, those ethernet printer servers actually cost more than the Pi!

Khannie · 21-12-2011 9:29pm

waveform wrote: »

and even better I can VNC to it, to download torrents, and stream the downloads from all the other computers.

Have a look at qbittorrent-nox. You leave it running on the linux server and access and control it through a browser (pic). It's a super piece of kit.

Also worth looking at NX (freenx is likely to run on arm). It is far, far superior to vnc and there are clients for all platforms.

But yeah, it really is perfect for low power applications. My HTPC is a very low power afair anyway (ion2 based system) so I leave it on 24/7.

shizz · 21-12-2011 9:55pm

Came across this nice looking OS http://www.slitaz.org
Anyone know if it will run on the processor?

Doge · 21-12-2011 10:24pm

Khannie wrote: »

Have a look at qbittorrent-nox. You leave it running on the linux server and access and control it through a browser

That looks great thanks for that!

@shizz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SliTaz

Seems to only support the x86 platform, so won't work on ARM i think.

Came across a cheaper and more powerful alternative in development to the Raspberry PI here:

http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/news/

Here's the specs of the processor it used, which is used in some very cheap android tablets out there atm:

http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10

The site looks a bit dodge, but there's a lot of pre-order requests for it.

Must look up discussion on it.

Doge · 21-12-2011 10:28pm

Also found this article from back in 2000 while looking up about SoC's (System-On-A-Chip)!

http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/Linux-For-Devices-Articles/Onechip-Linux-systems-hasten-arrival-of-PostPC-Era/

Khannie · 22-12-2011 4:17pm

waveform wrote: »

Came across a cheaper and more powerful alternative in development to the Raspberry PI here:

http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/news/

Here's the specs of the processor it used, which is used in some very cheap android tablets out there atm:

http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10

The site looks a bit dodge, but there's a lot of pre-order requests for it.

Must look up discussion on it.

That is interesting indeed. Very nice spec for potentially very little money. Some stuff I don't get:

IDE type interface.
PCMCIA type interface (do laptops still come with a PCMCIA interface? even if they do...I just don't get it).
Looks like a single micro USB port which would be very restrictive.

Overall, if they had taken the raspberry pi and replaced the processor and upped the RAM I think they would have been on to a massive winner. As it stands it's a bit....confused to me.

Doge · 22-12-2011 11:12pm

I think they're going with the pcmcia idea to drive down production cost,
the 68 pins would be hooked upto some breakout board which will have all the bigger connectors like ethernet etc..

Khannie · 23-12-2011 11:31am

Ah ok. I think the pi is a good base to try and copy tbh. The only very minor flaw I think it has is the 2 USB ports (where there's a good chance you're going to use one for wifi, it leaves you needing an external port for a keyboard and mouse).

Actually, does anyone know if there's a keyboard and mouse on a single USB port? or a keyboard that has a usb hub built in?

edit: I think the ideal spec for me would be a pi with faster processor, more ram (512M would probably be enough for a lightweight distro to do useful stuff though a gig would be ideal) and 4 usb ports. I'd happily pay 50 euro for that.

shizz · 23-12-2011 3:07pm

Is there anyway to increase the ram size by devoting apart of the ROM, as in the SD card, towards it?

Khannie · 23-12-2011 3:30pm

You could set part of the SD card as swap space. The OS will effectively use that as RAM when it runs low. It would be significantly slower than actual RAM though.

shizz · 23-12-2011 3:46pm

Ah yeah. Was just wondering is RAM's make up essentially that different to SSD?

Khannie · 23-12-2011 4:13pm

It's just on a much faster bus. That's the major difference really. Suppose a decent fast SD card might take the edge off the low RAM alright.

Dublin_Gunner · 23-12-2011 4:51pm

shizz wrote: »

Ah yeah. Was just wondering is RAM's make up essentially that different to SSD?

Khannie wrote: »

It's just on a much faster bus. That's the major difference really. Suppose a decent fast SD card might take the edge off the low RAM alright.

That's incorrect.

The type of memory used in RAM and SSD/ SD etc are different.

The major difference is NOT the bus type, its the fact that RAM loses all its data when power is removed, the other non-volatile memory types don't.

SSD and SD cards / usb sticks etc generally use NAND based Flash memory, RAM does not.

Back OT:

I'd definitely be interested in on of these devices, or indeed one of the other slightly more powerful devices in development. Its crazy to think that we can manufacture pretty much fully functional, and very capable computers on such a small budget.

Imagine going back even 10 years and showing someone one of these.

Khannie · 23-12-2011 5:02pm

We were discussing using it as a backup to RAM. In that instance the speed becomes the biggest differentiator. Not its volatility or physical makeup or otherwise.

Khannie · 23-12-2011 5:14pm

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Imagine going back even 10 years and showing someone one of these.

Yeah, that's mad. I think this and computers like it will change the way we look at computing in general in the medium term.

I'm reading The Stand at the moment which is set in 1990 and I keep thinking what it would be like if what happens in that book came to pass today. I would be focused on:

OMFG! DOWNLOAD THE INTERNET! QUICKLY!!!!

Raspberry PI $25 PC

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