F1 2019 - Round 9 Austria

Faugheen · 30-06-2019 3:45pm

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Great racing. Hope the stewards don't rob Max.

Max shouldn't punt others off the track to be honest.

If he loses the win he has nobody to blame but himself.

30-06-2019 3:46pm

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Reckon it will be a penalty

I disagree, but we will know either way in a few minutes.

It will be a concert of boos

Nope, it is a sea of orange.

Personally I would have preferred Charles to win.

skipper_G · 30-06-2019 3:46pm

That race was tremendous, great racing, exciting finish, and oddly despite the temperatures very little talk of managing components, tyres etc;

Max was excellent especially considering his bad start. Dissapointed for Leclerc, but his day will come. Good race from Norris, solid points finish today and well deserved. Serious questions will be asked about Gasly's future, that Hulk to Red Bull rumour is starting to seem less out there with each passing weekend. And shout out to Giovinazzi for his first F1 point, kept it clean and brought it home.

Sonny noggs · 30-06-2019 3:48pm

Ridiculous if the result changes after the podium. Podium should be delayed in a situation like this, I know that will impact TV schedules but looks ridiculous if VER handed the winners trophy while then minutes later the result changes.

Inquitus · 30-06-2019 3:48pm

skipper_G wrote: »

That race was tremendous, great racing, exciting finish, and oddly despite the temperatures very little talk of managing components, tyres etc;

Max was excellent especially considering his bad start. Dissapointed for Leclerc, but his day will come. Good race from Norris, solid points finish today and well deserved. Serious questions will be asked about Gasly's future, that Hulk to Red Bull rumour is starting to seem less out there with each passing weekend. And shout out to Giovinazzi for his first F1 point, kept it clean and brought it home.

How on earth did Gasly get lapped by his teammate?

skipper_G · 30-06-2019 3:48pm

Nice touch from Red Bull sending up the Honda guy

Harika · 30-06-2019 3:49pm

Hulk is dominated by Ricciardo who was dominated by verstappen who dominates gasly. Makes no sense to swap him in.
Ocon, sainz, Norris or Russell sound like far better alternatives

Faugheen · 30-06-2019 3:49pm

Charles is fuming here.

H3llR4iser · 30-06-2019 3:50pm

It's shocking really; Kvyat was essentially on the pace of Ricciardo and was fired for a couple of incidents. Just saying. Red Bull is doing a lot for young drivers, but it's also chewing and spitting out a lot of them - Vergne comes to mind, not to mention Alguersuari.

d8491prj5boyvg · 30-06-2019 3:50pm

Disappointed for leclerc and hope he gets the position back. But Ferrari don't deserve the win, so many blunders. They deserve a wake up call like this.

Faugheen · 30-06-2019 3:51pm

Harika wrote: »

Hulk is dominated by Ricciardo who was dominated by verstappen who dominates gasly. Makes no sense to swap him in.
Ocon, sainz, Norris or Russell sound like far better alternatives

Hulk beat Ricciardo today and has beaten him on more than one occasion.

Ricciardo has the upper hand but 'dominated' is nonsense.

skipper_G · 30-06-2019 3:53pm

Inquitus wrote: »

How on earth did Gasly get lapped by his teammate?

Never underestimate the importance of confidence and momentum. Gasly is struggling under the pressure to deliver against a very tough teammate. His confidence is in the toilet. If he can't find it within himself to get better and close the gap, that might just be a sign he doesn't have that something special which separates great from good.

Faugheen · 30-06-2019 3:55pm

This commentary on Sky is bull****.

One lap earlier, LeClerc kept it round the outside and got great momentum out of the corner to keep the position.

Why, in the same situation one lap later, does he need to give up the position?

LeClerc was only slightly behind Max (very slightly) and could have got better momentum coming out of the corner. Are we supposed to just let drivers go now because they're on the inside?

Why is there nothing being said about Max straightening up to punt him off?

Sonny noggs · 30-06-2019 3:56pm

Harika wrote: »

Hulk is dominated by Ricciardo who was dominated by verstappen who dominates gasly. Makes no sense to swap him in.
Ocon, sainz, Norris or Russell sound like far better alternatives

Ocon needs to end his contract with Mercedes if he doesn’t get the second Mercedes seat next year. It is the only reason he doesn’t have a drive this year. He would likely be in the second Red Bull otherwise.

d8491prj5boyvg · 30-06-2019 4:01pm

Sky rabbitting on about how F1 is in rude health need to remember that this race is a complete outlier.

30-06-2019 4:01pm

Faugheen wrote: »

This commentary on Sky is bull****.

One lap earlier, LeClerc kept it round the outside and got great momentum out of the corner to keep the position.

Why, in the same situation one lap later, does he need to give up the position?

LeClerc was only slightly behind Max (very slightly) and could have got better momentum coming out of the corner. Are we supposed to just let drivers go now because they're on the inside?

Why is there nothing being said about Max straightening up to punt him off?

2nd time round Verstappen stopped him from turning in (his choice) and LeClerc didn't have the same chance to accelerate out. Verstappen had the line and LeClerc was pretty much off track before the contact.

Stoolbend · 30-06-2019 4:02pm

He wasn’t even behind. They bumped front wheels. That puts them side by side.

This is more of a penalty than Canada ever was.

Faugheen · 30-06-2019 4:03pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

2nd time round Verstappen stopped him from turning in (his choice) and LeClerc didn't have the same chance to accelerate out. Verstappen had the line and LeClerc was pretty much off track before the contact.

He wasn't off track. Max straightened up and forced him off.

LeClerc was more than entitled to be there.

Are you saying we can't have side-by-side racing anymore?

Inquitus · 30-06-2019 4:05pm

Personally I think it is a penalty under the rules, which I don't agree with, so we shall see, but if the Stewards have consistency he'll get +5 secs.

Burkie1203 · 30-06-2019 4:06pm

Faugheen wrote: »

He wasn't off track. Max straightened up and forced him off.

LeClerc was more than entitled to be there.

Are you saying we can't have side-by-side racing anymore?

Max never straightened up. His wheel was always at least 90 degrees turned clockwise (to turn right)

Look at the on-board footage

Faugheen · 30-06-2019 4:09pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Max never straightened up. His wheel was always at least 90 degrees turned clockwise (to turn right)

Look at the on-board footage

I have, he straightens up his wheel slightly. He never keeps it turned consistently.

Either way, LeClerc is entitled to the space on the outside because they were beside each other. If we're telling LeClerc to give up that spot then we're also saying he'll never be a top class driver.

Reverse those roles and you can guarantee Max would be up in arms.

Burkie1203 · 30-06-2019 4:14pm

Faugheen wrote: »

I have, he straightens up his wheel slightly. He never keeps it turned consistently.

Either way, LeClerc is entitled to the space on the outside because they were beside each other. If we're telling LeClerc to give up that spot then we're also saying he'll never be a top class driver.

Reverse those roles and you can guarantee Max would be up in arms.

His wheel is never less then 90 degrees turned right. That's not straightened up at all. NOT even close

d8491prj5boyvg · 30-06-2019 4:14pm

Inquitus wrote: »

Personally I think it is a penalty under the rules, which I don't agree with, so we shall see, but if the Stewards have consistency he'll get +5 secs.

I agree with this. By the letter of the law it's a penalty but the laws are poor

HappyAsLarE · 30-06-2019 4:14pm

The reality is that Max didn’t leave a car’s width for Leclerc thus he forced him off the track. Of course it would be impossible for Max to turn any tighter to leave the space, but that’s because he lunged too deep.

ctrl-alt-delete · 30-06-2019 4:15pm

The investigation is not taking place until 5PM, that is something that needs looking at too.

skipper_G · 30-06-2019 4:18pm

Faugheen wrote: »

I have, he straightens up his wheel slightly. He never keeps it turned consistently.

Either way, LeClerc is entitled to the space on the outside because they were beside each other. If we're telling LeClerc to give up that spot then we're also saying he'll never be a top class driver.

Reverse those roles and you can guarantee Max would be up in arms.

I agree Max would be unhappy if the roles were reversed. But the same can be said for all racing drivers, they all seem to believe they're right even if they're wrong. My take from the onboard was that Verstappen opened his steering to get on the throttle at corner exit. I don't see it as a movement towards Leclerc. Could Max have left more room, probably. Could Charles have conceded the corner sooner, probably. It looks to me like a racing incident and neither is totally to blame. So I'm hoping it's no penalty.

Sky are saying the stewards investigation won't be held until 5pm, so we won't know for a while.

Cool_CM · 30-06-2019 4:21pm

skipper_G wrote: »

Sky are saying the stewards investigation won't be held until 5pm, so we won't know for a while.

Doubt that's enough time to move the Dutch army off the track so that they won't storm the paddock if there's a penalty!

flazio · 30-06-2019 4:23pm

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

The investigation is not taking place until 5PM, that is something that needs looking at too.

Works fine for Channel 4 highlights. Which reminds me, I'm really looking forward to hearing Ben Edwards talk us through this race again.

Faugheen · 30-06-2019 4:25pm

skipper_G wrote: »

I agree Max would be unhappy if the roles were reversed. But the same can be said for all racing drivers, they all seem to believe they're right even if they're wrong. My take from the onboard was that Verstappen opened his steering to get on the throttle at corner exit. I don't see it as a movement towards Leclerc. Could Max have left more room, probably. Could Charles have conceded the corner sooner, probably. It looks to me like a racing incident and neither is totally to blame. So I'm hoping it's no penalty.

Max absolutely could have left him more room, because LeClerc was right beside him.

Why should LeClerc give up that position before the corner when in the same scenario one lap earlier he kept it? Nobody is answering this question without saying Max forced him off the track.

LeClerc did absolutely nothing wrong and was fighting fairly throughout. Max didn't. I dunno how you can call it a 'racing incident' when Max forced a driver who was side-by-side with him off the track.

ricimaki · 30-06-2019 4:25pm

F1's rules need to change, as the sport keeps getting into lose-lose situations.
To be consistent, Max should be penalised for that move.
To keep fans having any glimmer of hope that races won't be decided by penalties, he should get away with it.

It was tough racing, but Leclerc would have to concede the place at some point. Had this overtake occurred somewhere with a barrier or gravel trap, Leclerc would have backed out of the corner much earlier, and this would be a non-issue. Drivers take more risks knowing there's miles of run-off area around them. Max took a risk of a collision and penalty by non giving space, Leclerc took a risk of a collision by not backing off.

It's racing. Let them race.

Burkie1203 · 30-06-2019 4:29pm

ricimaki wrote: »

F1's rules need to change, as the sport keeps getting into lose-lose situations.
To be consistent, Max should be penalised for that move.
To keep fans having any glimmer of hope that races won't be decided by penalties, he should get away with it.

It was tough racing, but Leclerc would have to concede the place at some point. Had this overtake occurred somewhere with a barrier or gravel trap, Leclerc would have backed out of the corner much earlier, and this would be a non-issue. Drivers take more risks knowing there's miles of run-off area around them. Max took a risk of a collision and penalty by non giving space, Leclerc took a risk of a collision by not backing off.

It's racing. Let them race.

Kimi backed off when Norris overtook him.

Faugheen · 30-06-2019 4:30pm

ricimaki wrote: »

F1's rules need to change, as the sport keeps getting into lose-lose situations.
To be consistent, Max should be penalised for that move.
To keep fans having any glimmer of hope that races won't be decided by penalties, he should get away with it.

It was tough racing, but Leclerc would have to concede the place at some point. Had this overtake occurred somewhere with a barrier or gravel trap, Leclerc would have backed out of the corner much earlier, and this would be a non-issue. Drivers take more risks knowing there's miles of run-off area around them. Max took a risk of a collision and penalty by non giving space, Leclerc took a risk of a collision by not backing off.

It's racing. Let them race.

If my aunt had bollocks she'd be my uncle.

Charles kept the position one lap earlier in the same scenario. The difference was Max didn't force him off the track. That's not fair racing. The previous lap was brilliant stuff from both of them. Tough, hard but fair.

The whole 'if there was gravel there' argument is irrelevant, because there's no gravel.

Infoanon · 30-06-2019 4:30pm

You can't bump another car off the circuit which is what Max did. I will be very surprised if it's not a 5 second penalty.

Horners using words like 'stealing ' etc and Maxs 'why bother being in F1' tell you which way the wind is blowing on this incident.

chicorytip · 30-06-2019 4:32pm

Inquitus wrote:

How on earth did Gasly get lapped by his teammate?

How on earth did Verstappen end up in contention for the win? Ferrari messed up badly somewhere. Leclerc had a four second lead at one point. Vettel and Hamilton were just going through the motions. Tyre strategy seems to be the major determining factor in the outcome of races now. I think there ought to be just two types of tyre available to teams, dry weather and wet weather, both manufactured using the hardest compound and capable of lasting an entire race.

d8491prj5boyvg · 30-06-2019 4:45pm

ricimaki wrote: »

F1's rules need to change, as the sport keeps getting into lose-lose situations.
To be consistent, Max should be penalised for that move.
To keep fans having any glimmer of hope that races won't be decided by penalties, he should get away with it.

It was tough racing, but Leclerc would have to concede the place at some point. Had this overtake occurred somewhere with a barrier or gravel trap, Leclerc would have backed out of the corner much earlier, and this would be a non-issue. Drivers take more risks knowing there's miles of run-off area around them. Max took a risk of a collision and penalty by non giving space, Leclerc took a risk of a collision by not backing off.

It's racing. Let them race.

This raises a very interesting point. There's a moral hazard associated with all the run off. We get "less sportsmanlike" racing practices and coupled with draconian rules, more stewards' enquiries.

Bring back gravel!

ricimaki · 30-06-2019 4:46pm

Faugheen wrote: »

If my aunt had bollocks she'd be my uncle.

I'm not sure why i'm bothering to reply to a comment with this nonsense in it, but anyway....

Faugheen wrote: »

Charles kept the position one lap earlier in the same scenario. The difference was Max didn't force him off the track. That's not fair racing. The previous lap was brilliant stuff from both of them. Tough, hard but fair.

I agree with you here

Faugheen wrote: »

The whole 'if there was gravel there' argument is irrelevant, because there's no gravel.

A major reason (not the only one) the rule about pushing a driver off track exists it to stop cars being pushed into gravel traps/barriers, and ruining their whole race. This exact rule is why this incident is being investigated.

As I said at the very start, F1's rules need to change. It was unfair from Max to push him off, but it doesn't deserve a penalty, or even warrant an investigation.

Faugheen · 30-06-2019 4:51pm

ricimaki wrote: »

As I said at the very start, F1's rules need to change. It was unfair from Max to push him off, but it doesn't deserve a penalty, or even warrant an investigation.

So if it's unfair why should he be allowed to get away with it?

ricimaki · 30-06-2019 5:03pm

Faugheen wrote: »

So if it's unfair why should he be allowed to get away with it?

Its racing. It was a very minor racing incident. Its not something that should decide who wins the race.

Infoanon · 30-06-2019 5:08pm

ricimaki wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

So if it's unfair why should he be allowed to get away with it?

Its racing. It was a very minor racing incident. Its not something that should decide who wins the race.

But it did decide who won the race.

Stoolbend · 30-06-2019 5:11pm

The worst is Max had the pace to pass him cleanly. It’s like he just went wheel banging for the craic.

chicorytip · 30-06-2019 5:13pm

Infoanon wrote:

But it did decide who won the race.

If the result stands Leclerc should learn from the lesson. Nice guy's usually don't win. He needs to develop a nasty streak.

Harika · 30-06-2019 5:41pm

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarcWurzinger/status/1145371228389203969/photo/1

That will bring discussion. Max awarded a 5 second penalty

Dante7 · 30-06-2019 5:41pm

Max complaining about the same thing and Leclerc defending it.

https://twitter.com/explorator67/status/1145368934218178565?s=19

Rossi IRL · 30-06-2019 5:41pm

Harika wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarcWurzinger/status/1145371228389203969/photo/1

That will bring discussion. Max awarded a 5 second penalty

Looks fake

skipper_G · 30-06-2019 5:45pm

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Looks fake

It is

kmart6 · 30-06-2019 5:45pm

He has deleted it and confirmed it as fake.

Harika · 30-06-2019 5:46pm

kmart6 wrote: »

He has deleted it and confirmed it as fake.

Indeed

TCP/IP · 30-06-2019 5:47pm

Why do I get the feeling they are clearing the track before they announce that Max will get a penalty.
I am a Ferrari fan but would hate to see a penalty given we need more of this hard racing not less.

antodeco · 30-06-2019 5:49pm

The annoying thing is that Max would've passed him within 1 lap anyway, so the result would've been the same. It's just he did it with the worst possible way.

Faugheen · 30-06-2019 6:09pm

chicorytip wrote: »

If the result stands Leclerc should learn from the lesson. Nice guy's usually don't win. He needs to develop a nasty streak.

But this makes no sense as people are also saying LeClerc should have backed out. Him staying in the fight is exactly what he should be doing.

F1 2019 - Round 9 Austria

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