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Social distancing Megathread

13567…41

Comments

  • #102
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,854 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    JustAThought wrote: »
    we have a social welfare bill of billions and at a recent founding/e tendering conference a housing/‘homeless industry’ budget of two BILLION. I have no problem whatsoever with much of this being scrutinised and reallocated to individuals that need it - and I don’t mean the self entitled, improted problems or thise who never worked a day in their lives to contribute. Why not fund and provide resources to those who worked their entire life and now expect some support - they would find it of it was for other categories. There is more to a country than ‘an economy’ .

    Funny how in this country the most vulnerable are those with guaranteed income living in housing massively subsidized, if they even bother paying their rent. I have said this less than a month ago. The real vulnerable are those a job loss away from serious stress and living standard reduction, renting is worst. Why are people who may never have been unemployed now hit with a e203 rate that the wasters gets ?


  • #103
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    No its not.

    I gave a very simple scenario of a family (#92) where there are those at risk and those not at risk, and the answer was basically "split them up".

    Isolate them from each other.

    How do you expect that to happen - or to be sustainable - if not by physical separation?


  • #104
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    AulWan wrote: »
    No its not.

    I gave a very simple scenario of a family where there are those at risk and those not at risk, and the answer was basically "split them up".

    Isolate them from each other.

    How do you expect that to happen - or to be sustainable - if not physical separation?

    How does it work at present?


  • #105
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    No, it isn't. And it's not "dangerous talk". It's a legitimte point of view. The idea of the majority of people self isolating for potentially up to a year, if not a year and half when we maybe have a vaccine, is bonkers. The onus will have to eventually shift on those people who are high risk to self-isolate themselves, otherwise there will be virtually nothing left of our economy.

    Exactly.

    There is no way this can or would be accepted.

    There will be anarchy all over western europe if current measures last too long.

    I go back to the original question.

    How long is it tenable?

    And even aside from the economy.

    We live for social contact and interacting with others, that's the natural purpose of our species.

    Isolation of whole countries or social distancing is not feasible long term.

    Particularly when the people implementing the measures do not have to follow them themselves.

    This is not criticising those making these decisions, they are doing their best but we know the health effects of long term isolation, social distancing, unemployment and no outlets will be devastating.


  • #106
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Funny how in this country the most vulnerable are those with guaranteed income living in housing massively subsidized, if they even bother paying their rent. I have said this less than a month ago. The real vulnerable are those a job loss away from serious stress and living standard reduction, renting is worst. Why are people who may never have been unemployed now hit with a e203 rate that the wasters gets ?

    Don't worry.

    I'm sure the next round of FEMPI legislation is being drafted as we speak..


  • #107
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    How does it work at present?


    I asked you first!

    But one thing for sure - isolation won't be effective if someone you live with is going out an "carrying on as normal" as you suggest.

    It'll only be a matter of time before they carry the virus home to their loved ones, and the cycle begins again.


  • #108
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    AulWan wrote: »
    I asked you first!

    Here's how it could work: the at risk people self isolate as we are now

    The non self isolating person regularly gets tested for any symptoms, and attempts to maintain a safe distance from the at risk members of the family as much as possible.

    The family maintain high levels of sanitation, they could for example, be provided with masks free of charge, wash hands more than normal.

    In the mean time, the government attempts to procure as many ventilators as possible lest these people get I'll.

    These practices will have to be practiced by a minority of families. As such, it is better than the majority of people, who are at low risk of dying from this, having to maintain social isolation indefinitely.


  • #109
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Here's how it could work: the at risk people self isolate as we are now

    The non self isolating person regularly gets tested for any symptoms, and attempts to maintain a safe distance from the at risk members of the family as much as possible.

    The family maintain high levels of sanitation, they could for example, be provided with masks free of charge.

    In the mean time, the government attempts to procure as many ventilators as possible lest these people get I'll.

    These practices will have to be practiced by a minority of families. As such, it is better than the majority of people, who are at low risk of dying from this, having to maintain social isolation indefinitely.

    I would be 100% certain that the long term implementation of these measures would lead to an even more devastating situation than the virus.

    The loneliness, mental health problems, health effects, depression, hopelessness etc may not all be visible but over time would destroy lives.


  • #110
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Here's how it could work: the at risk people self isolate as we are now

    The non self isolating person regularly gets tested for any symptoms, and attempts to maintain a safe distance from the at risk members of the family as much as possible.

    The family maintain high levels of sanitation, they could for example, be provided with masks free of charge.

    In the mean time, the government attempts to procure as many ventilators as possible lest these people get I'll.

    These practices will have to be practiced by a minority of families. As such, it is better than the majority of people, who are at low risk of dying from this, having to maintain social isolation indefinitely.

    So, you really think a husband and wife are going to remain at least six feet distance away from each other and their "at risk" children at all times, all while living in the same (probably small) house?

    You're dreaming.


  • #111
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    AulWan wrote: »
    So, you really think a husband and wife are going to remain at least six feet distance away from each other and their "at risk" children at all times, all while living in the same (probably small) house?

    You're dreaming.

    You think that social distancing and social isolation measures, implemented for everybody, long term would lead to anything other than desperate health effects and social anarchy.

    You're dreaming in that case.

    Even those phrases social distancing and social isolation are horrific.

    I know they're needed now but they are not tenable for long.


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  • #112
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,854 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    trapp wrote: »
    You think that social distancing and social isolation measures, implemented for everybody, long term would lead to anything other than desperate health effects and social anarchy.

    You're dreaming in that case.

    Even those phrases social distancing and social isolation are horrific.

    I know they're needed now but they are not tenable for long.

    I had a few friends drop in over the last few days, would keep distance etc. Already we are all starting to lose our minds, what? 4-5 days in? It depends on your set up I suppose, youngish people in dublin, will possibly find it harded than maybe a youngish person living in a rural area. Given that generally in cities, there is so much more to do and you really notice how much you take it foregranted at times like these!

    Its the unknown that is the worst, if you knew "just bed down for a month" we could massively curtail deaths etc, and it would be worth it. But nobody knows how this will play out and if many young people got it and didnt pass it on, its going to be a mild inconvenience in the scheme of things...

    I read they expect to have tests soon that will be able to test for the virus and give a result in 15 minutes!


  • #113
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    trapp wrote: »
    You think that social distancing and social isolation measures, implemented for everybody, long term would lead to anything other than desperate health effects and social anarchy.

    You're dreaming in that case.

    Even those phrases social distancing and social isolation are horrific.

    I know they're needed now but they are not tenable for long.

    Well lets at least give them a real chance first, because what you're suggesting won't work either.

    It would be virtually impossible for a family to live together in the manner which you propose.

    Not to mention, what do you think the effect would be on the mental health of those who would be told they have to isolate from their own families, even their children, for the greater good, while everyone else carries on as normal?

    But its for the greater good, right? There is a callousness to that which doesn't sit right with me.


  • #114
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    I had a few friends drop in over the last few days, would keep distance etc. Already we are all starting to lose our minds, what? 4-5 days in? It depends on your set up I suppose, youngish people in dublin, will possibly find it harded than maybe a youngish person living in a rural area. Given that generally in cities, there is so much more to do and you really notice how much you take it foregranted at times like these!

    Its the unknown that is the worst, if you knew "just bed down for a month" we could massively curtail deaths etc, and it would be worth it. But nobody knows how this will play out and if many young people got it and didnt pass it on, its going to be a mild inconvenience in the scheme of things...

    I read they expect to have tests soon that will be able to test for the virus and give a result in 15 minutes!

    Throw into the mix how people who are now unemployed or losing their business will feel.

    This is a desperate situation but focusing on the virus alone for months with no end in sight will end in disaster.

    Unemployment, no outlets, social distancing, dependent on the state.

    Anyone who can't see that this will end in chaos is not being honest.


  • #115
    Risteard81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    AulWan wrote: »
    But its for the greater good, right? There is a callousness to that which doesn't sit right with me.

    That's precisely the same callousness which leads to the current policy. The perceived so-called "greater good" is why half of Europe is imprisoned at present.


  • #116
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    AulWan wrote: »
    Well lets at least give them a real chance first, because what you're suggesting won't work either.

    It would be virtually impossible for a family to live together in the manner which you propose.

    Not to mention, what do you think the effect would be on the mental health of those who would be told they have to isolate from their own families, even their children, for the greater good, while everyone else carries on as normal?

    But its for the greater good, right? There is a callousness to that which doesn't sit right with me.

    What about those currently living in families where mental health problems, addiction issues etc make staying at home a living nightmare.

    You're implying every family is mum, dad and three kids all getting along fine.

    Life can't be taken in simple black and white.

    The current measures fight the virus but long term will create a raft of problems that will end in social unrest and anarchy across western europe.

    Before the virus if anyone said we should implement strict social distancing, close down all sport and social outlets, close all pubs and restaurants, shut schools and leave thousands unemployed with no hope or no idea when it will all end, the response would be that social anarchy would result.

    It's a hopeless situation to leave people in.


  • #117
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,854 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    trapp wrote: »
    Throw into the mix how people who are now unemployed or losing their business will feel.

    This is a desperate situation but focusing on the virus alone for months with no end in sight will end in disaster.

    Unemployment, no outlets, social distancing, dependent on the state.

    Anyone who can't see that this will end in chaos is not being honest.

    yeah sure I run a business, badly effected by this, mostly classroom and face to face based. Trying to move as much as possible online and to maintain some cash flow...

    the business I can likely keep going, its more the from a social perspective I think its going to be unbearable for anything more than a few weeks. Then the **** will really start hitting the fan if businesses have to closer for more than 2-3 weeks


  • #118
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    trapp wrote: »
    What about those currently living in families where mental health problems, addiction issues etc make staying at home a living nightmare.

    You're implying every family is mum, dad and three kids all getting along fine.

    I implied no such thing. I gave one type of family set up as a basic example, and I have first hand experience of living in a family with some of the problems you mention, so don't think I haven't considered it.

    It still doesn't change my view that isolating half the population for the greater good of the other, is the solution or even possible.


  • #119
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    AulWan wrote: »
    I implied no such thing. I gave one type of family set up as a basic example, and I have first hand experience of living in a family with some of the problems you mention, so don't think I haven't considered it.

    t still doesn't change my view that isolating half the population for the greater good of the other, is the solution or even possibleI.

    I'm not sure it is either but I just worry we're opening a whole other can of worms if the current measures are maintained long term.

    Again, just imagine this.

    Schools, colleges shut. Examinations possibly cancelled

    Sports shut down.

    Strict social distancing.

    No pubs, restaurants etc allowed to open.

    No large gatherings.

    Small funerals, no weddings or other celebrations.

    No church services.

    Mass unemployment.

    And no idea of how long it will last except that it will be months.

    The idea of the above would have been unimaginable to put on to a society a few months ago.

    The fact we need to implement them to deal with a virus does not mean that the effects won't be devastating.

    And in time will lead to the breakdown of western european society if implemented long term.

    There is nothing worse than lack of hope and with no end in sight that's where many people across Europe are now.


  • #120
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,854 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    the closing of private colleges and the english as a foreign language industry here is huge, its worth a fortune to this city!


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  • #121
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    I can't see this lasting long. It's all novel and cool now working from home and arranging video calls and exercising at home, but I'm already starting to get very lonely. I suffer from depression and anxiety and meeting up with friends and doing activities are crucial for my mental health and survival.

    I really don't see how people can keep up this isolation for longer than about a month or 6 weeks at best.


  • #122
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    AulWan wrote: »
    So, you really think a husband and wife are going to remain at least six feet distance away from each other and their "at risk" children at all times, all while living in the same (probably small) house?

    You're dreaming.

    That's on them to decide. As I said the government could maintain testing so healthy members of these families can be tested on the regular. Your alternative is far worse, with a far worse social impact (and economical impact) than what I'm suggesting.


  • #123
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,854 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    I can't see this lasting long. It's all novel and cool now working from home and arranging video calls and exercising at home, but I'm already starting to get very lonely. I suffer from depression and anxiety and meeting up with friends and doing activities are crucial for my mental health and survival.

    I really don't see how people can keep up this isolation for longer than about a month or 6 weeks at best.

    yeah! its all a bit novel now etc. If we knew it would be a month, you could accept it and just work through it. The unknown is the killer!


  • #124
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    I had a few friends drop in over the last few days, would keep distance etc. Already we are all starting to lose our minds, what? 4-5 days in? It depends on your set up I suppose, youngish people in dublin, will possibly find it harded than maybe a youngish person living in a rural area. Given that generally in cities, there is so much more to do and you really notice how much you take it foregranted at times like these!

    Its the unknown that is the worst, if you knew "just bed down for a month" we could massively curtail deaths etc, and it would be worth it. But nobody knows how this will play out and if many young people got it and didnt pass it on, its going to be a mild inconvenience in the scheme of things...

    I read they expect to have tests soon that will be able to test for the virus and give a result in 15 minutes!

    This is the entire issue.

    If we knew for sure that we could just suck it up for a month or two and then everything would be alright, it'd be doable for the vast majority. It's the not knowing. Is this the new reality now? No more pubs? No more restaurants? No more seeing friends? For months and months on end?


  • #125
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    I can't see this lasting long. It's all novel and cool now working from home and arranging video calls and exercising at home, but I'm already starting to get very lonely. I suffer from depression and anxiety and meeting up with friends and doing activities are crucial for my mental health and survival.

    I really don't see how people can keep up this isolation for longer than about a month or 6 weeks at best.

    Agree 100%

    I have a bad feeling it won't be the virus that destroys western europe as we know it but the measures being implemented to deal with them.

    These measures will only and can only lead to social anarchy in time.


  • #126
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    trapp wrote: »
    Agree 100%

    I have a bad feeling it won't be the virus that destroys western europe as we know it but the measures being implemented to deal with them.

    These measures will only and can only lead to social anarchy in time.

    IMO it's too little, too late.

    Look at Asian countries like Taiwan and Japan, who have managed to contain it pretty well. The ones who took swift action to shut things down and prevent spread.

    Here we've got the worst of both worlds. No action until it took hold, and now suddenly everything is shut down.


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  • #127
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,854 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    This is the entire issue.

    If we knew for sure that we could just suck it up for a month or two and then everything would be alright, it'd be doable for the vast majority. It's the not knowing. Is this the new reality now? No more pubs? No more restaurants? No more seeing friends? For months and months on end?

    exactly, there are only so many walks you can go on. If cinemas are still open, I am tempted to go if they are nearly dead and just sit a good bit away from any one else...


  • #128
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    This is the entire issue.

    If we knew for sure that we could just suck it up for a month or two and then everything would be alright, it'd be doable for the vast majority. It's the not knowing. Is this the new reality now? No more pubs? No more restaurants? No more seeing friends? For months and months on end?

    And for many, no job, no purpose, dependent on the same state that is locking you up.

    And I know they're doing it to protect lives.

    But how long can people live like this, because it's not living.

    Shutting the schools long term alone, writes off the education for the future of the country.


  • #129
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    AulWan wrote: »
    I implied no such thing. I gave one type of family set up as a basic example, and I have first hand experience of living in a family with some of the problems you mention, so don't think I haven't considered it.

    It still doesn't change my view that isolating half the population for the greater good of the other, is the solution or even possible.

    It's a case for how long. How long do you think this isolation should last? You initially said you'd be happy with 6 months. What if its longer? How long is OK with you?

    And its not a case of 50/50. There is a clear majority of people who will not die from this disease.


  • #130
    boring accountant
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭boring accountant


    trapp wrote: »
    But for how long is this tenable?

    About 40,000 years


  • #131
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,816 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    trapp wrote: »
    And for many, no job, no purpose, dependent on the same state that is locking you up.

    And I know they're doing it to protect lives.

    But how long can people live like this, because it's not living.

    Shutting the schools long term alone, writes off the education for the future of the country.

    QQ - if the mortality rate was high for children, do you think people would be complaining as much, or saying that they will do whatever it takes to protect their children - bit it 6 weeks or 6 months


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  • #132
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    I could happily go the rest of the life without shaking another hand. Never enjoyed it. You’ll get a Namaste or a wave from me.


  • #133
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    This is the entire issue.

    If we knew for sure that we could just suck it up for a month or two and then everything would be alright, it'd be doable for the vast majority. It's the not knowing. Is this the new reality now? No more pubs? No more restaurants? No more seeing friends? For months and months on end?

    Id say alot will depend on wheter or how much wuhan flares up again with the ending of restrictions there

    Theres a pool of taught that suggests with increased social interactions could flare up again.


  • #134
    paleoperson
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭paleoperson


    Once you have the internet, tv, radio and phone you are not really "isolated".


  • #135
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    At the moment I feel hopeless.

    Job is gone with no return in sight, no social outlet, nothing to look forward to and no idea how or when it will end.

    And before anyone says think of the sick, think of the nurses I know there is a bigger picture.


  • #136
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,854 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    It's a case for how long. How long do you think this isolation should last? You initially said you'd be happy with 6 months. What if its longer? How long is OK with you?

    And its not a case of 50/50. There is a clear majority of people who will not die from this disease.

    buying time for now makes sense and I think it will be tolerated for 3-4 weeks max. After that, you just wonder if the high risk, just need to be the ones to wait it out and receive support and leave the rest of us to it. those that arent vulnerable but need to support vulnerable, might just have to isolate, as crap as it will be in longer term.


  • #137
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    paleoperson wrote: »
    Once you have the internet, tv, radio and phone you are not really "isolated".

    That's nonsense.

    I have all and can tell you for a fact I've never felt as isolated.

    Unemployment also means no purpose for many people around this country.


  • #138
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    That's on them to decide. As I said the government could maintain testing so healthy members of these families can be tested on the regular. Your alternative is far worse, with a far worse social impact (and economical impact) than what I'm suggesting.

    Ah, now I understand.

    So what you're really saying is I'm alright jack, **** you if you happen to be elderly or in an at risk group.

    You're putting all the responsibility for not catching the virus back on them and their families, while absolving yourself of any responsibility to not spread it, while you go back to normal life.

    Basically, your ability to go to work and for pints after, takes precedence.


  • #139
    Balf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Balf


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    QQ - if the mortality rate was high for children, do you think people would be complaining as much, or saying that they will do whatever it takes to protect their children - bit it 6 weeks or 6 months
    That would be different.

    So, yes, I'd say part of it is wondering how much longevity we're adding to the life of an eighty year old, at the expense of their grandchildren. And, yes, I am aware that some at risk people are younger.

    Just as I'm aware than even most eighty year olds survive the virus.


  • #140
    Balf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Balf


    trapp wrote: »
    At the moment I feel hopeless.

    Job is gone with no return in sight, no social outlet, nothing to look forward to and no idea how or when it will end.

    And before anyone says think of the sick, think of the nurses I know there is a bigger picture.
    And an even bigger picture, which you are pointing out.


  • #141
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    QQ - if the mortality rate was high for children, do you think people would be complaining as much, or saying that they will do whatever it takes to protect their children - bit it 6 weeks or 6 months

    If the mortality rate was high for children it would be different, of course it would.

    Nobody is complaining about the measures as such, more considering what the long term effects will be.

    In my opinion, these restrictions implemented long term will destroy civilisation as we know it in western europe.


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  • #142
    racso1975
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭racso1975


    trapp wrote: »
    That's nonsense.

    I have all and can tell you for a fact I've never felt as isolated.

    Unemployment also means no purpose for many people around this country.

    This. Having gone through 2008 and the aftermath and finally getting back on my feet and not really sure i can do it again


  • #143
    Balf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Balf


    AulWan wrote: »

    You're putting all the responsibility for not catching the virus back on them and their families, .
    I'd find you more convincing if you didn't have such an obvious personal interest.

    No one is saying you shouldn't be supported. If we don't wreck the economy, there would actually be more resource to helo.

    But what's happening is actually manic.


  • #144
    El Tarangu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    OP - I know how you feel.

    Yesterday was only day 4 for me, and I was already getting cheesed off.

    But then this evening, I was listening to an old episode of 'This American Life', and an Israeli man was talking about his father survived the Holocaust: then a small child, he hid with his father and mother in a hole in the ground for 600-odd days.

    They weren't able to stand up, or lie down; they just had to sit. They were close to some German-occupied building as well, so they weren't even able to really talk. When they were liberated by the Russians, they had to lifted out, as their muscles had completely atrophied.

    Which is to say: yes, it sucks that many people will lose their jobs, and that we won't have as much social contact as we accustomed to for the next few weeks - maybe months. But in the grand scheme of adversities that people have overcome, this is at the lower end of the scale


  • #145
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,854 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    trapp wrote: »
    At the moment I feel hopeless.

    Job is gone with no return in sight, no social outlet, nothing to look forward to and no idea how or when it will end.

    And before anyone says think of the sick, think of the nurses I know there is a bigger picture.

    the thing is , there is a good chance in the close-ish future, things can start to get back to normal! There are a lot of people working on the problem!!!


  • #146
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,854 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    OP - I know how you feel.

    Yesterday was only day 4 for me, and I was already getting cheesed off.

    But then this evening, I was listening to an old episode of 'This American Life', and an Israeli man was talking about his father survived the Holocaust: then a small child, he hid with his father and mother in a hole in the ground for 600-odd days.

    They weren't able to stand up, or lie down; they just had to sit. They were close to some German-occupied building as well, so they weren't even able to really talk. When they were liberated by the Russians, they had to lifted out, as their muscles had completely atrophied.

    Which is to say: yes, it sucks that many people will lose their jobs, and that we won't have as much social contact as we accustomed to for the next few weeks - maybe months. But in the grand scheme of adversities that people have overcome, this is at the lower end of the scale

    yeah I posted this earlier, maybe in another thread. In the scheme of things, this would be a joke compared to say, imagine the second world war etc, never mind being in a camp, just the general fear etc. Loved ones leaving for the front, that you may never see again, going to sleep and being bombed and never waking up etc. But its all relative... Like food is now dirt cheap and plentiful, as is communications etc. But it is still a headfcuk!


  • #147
    Balf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Balf


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    OP - I know how you feel.

    Yesterday was only day 4 for me, and I was already getting cheesed off.

    But then this evening, I was listening to an old episode of 'This American Life', and an Israeli man was talking about his father survived the Holocaust: then a small child, he hid with his father and mother in a hole in the ground for 600-odd days.

    They weren't able to stand up, or lie down; they just had to sit. They were close to some German-occupied building as well, so they weren't even able to really talk. When they were liberated by the Russians, they had to lifted out, as their muscles had completely atrophied.

    Which is to say: yes, it sucks that many people will lose their jobs, and that we won't have as much social contact as we accustomed to for the next few weeks - maybe months. But in the grand scheme of adversities that people have overcome, this is at the lower end of the scale
    Godwin it is, then.

    The point is not about whether a few people should self isolate, in conditions that would be much easier than you describe.

    The point is that if the whole of Europe hides in the cellar for a few weeks, there won't be much of a society or an economy left when we re-emerge.


  • #148
    c montgomery
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭c montgomery


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    OP - I know how you feel.

    Yesterday was only day 4 for me, and I was already getting cheesed off.

    But then this evening, I was listening to an old episode of 'This American Life', and an Israeli man was talking about his father survived the Holocaust: then a small child, he hid with his father and mother in a hole in the ground for 600-odd days.

    They weren't able to stand up, or lie down; they just had to sit. They were close to some German-occupied building as well, so they weren't even able to really talk. When they were liberated by the Russians, they had to lifted out, as their muscles had completely atrophied.

    Which is to say: yes, it sucks that many people will lose their jobs, and that we won't have as much social contact as we accustomed to for the next few weeks - maybe months. But in the grand scheme of adversities that people have overcome, this is at the lower end of the scale

    Well said.
    People need to get a grip, this is an inconvenience and should show people the value of health, wellbeing and family.


  • #149
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    AulWan wrote: »
    Ah, now I understand.

    So what you're really saying is I'm alright jack, **** you if you happen to be elderly or in an at risk group.

    You're putting all the responsibility for not catching the virus back on them and their families, while absolving yourself of any responsibility to not spread it, while you go back to normal life.

    Basically, your ability to go to work and for pints after, takes precedence.

    Nope. You've clearly missed my point about the economic impact and the impact on society as a whole. I'm aware you want to paint me as the selfish one. It's actual you if you bother to think about it at all, considering you want mass self isolation of the majority of the population long term.


  • #150
    citysights
    Closed Accounts Posts: 288 ✭✭citysights


    trapp wrote: »
    This needs to be discussed as a separate issue from the virus itself.

    Of course the measures being taken are being implemented to save lives, prevent the health system from collapsing under the strain, to protect the vulnerable and at risk.

    These measures are needed and I'm not in anyway against them.

    But we can't just see everything in black and white. We could if there was an end in sight in a matter of weeks or even months but there isn't.

    How long before the effects of isolation become another grave issue along with the virus?

    Everyone is clear on the health effects of loneliness. Everyone is clear on the effects of unemployment on physical and mental health. Many are going to be effectively unemployed for a long period of time and may remain so after the crisis.

    How will this isolation affect anyone with depression, suicidal tendencies, mental health difficulties?

    How will this isolation affect people confined to home and living in dysfunctional families with problems of abuse, drugs and alcohol abuse?

    How will this affect the most disadvantaged children in our society with no escape to school and no education for a prolonged period of time?

    What will the rates of domestic abuse, suicides etc be if social isolation is implemented over a prolonged period?

    I repeat, I support the measures being implemented to save lives. The experts are doing their best in an evolving situation where everything is new.

    This can be done for weeks without doubt, but is it tenable for months?

    I repeat, I don't know but it needs to be discussed.

    Mental Health and suicide, anxiety etc were all major issues and thinking about suicide major killers up to a couple of weeks ago.

    I know this virus has the potential to kill many more people than suicide but the long term effects of social isolation need to be discussed.

    Waive everyone’s internet bill and give the elderly free smart mobile phones. We bailed out the banks they could fund it, it won’t work for everyone but it’s an idea at least, the logistics wouldn’t be easy but maybe it could be done. Then more people could interact on social media, set up groups, look at cat pictures whatever , anything to help their mental health.


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  • #151
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Balf wrote: »
    I'd find you more convincing if you didn't have such an obvious personal interest.

    No one is saying you shouldn't be supported. If we don't wreck the economy, there would actually be more resource to helo.

    But what's happening is actually manic.

    My personal interest being my health? And my daughter's health?

    The health of my elderly parents?

    Of course I have an "obvious personal interest".

    I can and do work from home. I'm really not bothered about going to the pub.


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