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Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh - thread 2.0

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13567…41

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    #62
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,961 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    zg3409 wrote: »
    Tesla constantly charge the 12v but that causes increased phantom drain where the main battery drops a few % every day even when car is not driven, however very few 12v issues

    Slight correction. Teslas are "always on", this causes a drain (nothing phantom about it) of about 1% per 24h

    Any higher drain is from people using sentry mode (using the cameras of the car to record for security reasons)

    Always on is brilliant, it means the car can top up the 12V when required so it never ever goes low. It also means car can get updates over the air, remote technicians can access it, you could leave an appliance on when leaving the car and locking it, i.e. a phone, etc.

    Tesla have just announced that the refresh Models S and X now have a lithium 12V battery, good riddance to lead acid, it's ridiculous any EV is fitted with one. You don't need it if you don't need to crank an internal combustion engine. I've been saying that for years. Funny thing is that the PHEV Ioniq did have a lithium 12V battery from the start, even though the engine needs cranking! Wonder why Hyundai decided on that.

    Also, Musk has hinted at using 48V for future systems, excellent idea, is cheaper in other materials, thinner cabling etc. and gives more oomph when you need it (without the battery costing a cent more)


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    #63
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,139 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    That Ioniq has a deposit taken.
    Didn't last long.


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    #64
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,961 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Smart buyer. Lot of car for the money. Hopefully it is someone in here or someone soon to join us here :)


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    #65
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,139 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I was tempted myself, asked for a trade-in price on the Leaf.
    Just too late.


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    #66
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,961 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    NIMAN wrote: »
    I was tempted myself, asked for a trade-in price on the Leaf.
    Just too late.

    You gotta be quick!

    Next time be prepared and ring to make the deal the second you see a bargain :cool:


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    #67
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,139 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I would need to have the Leaf sold first, can't end up with 3 cars
    Especially when they are getting so little use.


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    #68
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,961 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    NIMAN wrote: »
    I would need to have the Leaf sold first

    That's why most people trade in their car with a dealer. You'll never get a bargain, you pay a lot more money, but it's less hassle and you don't have to temporarily own 2 cars while you only need one, with all the complications that brings like parking spaces, insurance, finance and cash flow


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    #69
    Orebro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,233 ✭✭✭Orebro


    unkel wrote: »
    Slight correction. Teslas are "always on", this causes a drain (nothing phantom about it) of about 1% per 24h

    Any higher drain is from people using sentry mode (using the cameras of the car to record for security reasons)

    Always on is brilliant, it means the car can top up the 12V when required so it never ever goes low. It also means car can get updates over the air, remote technicians can access it, you could leave an appliance on when leaving the car and locking it, i.e. a phone, etc.

    Tesla have just announced that the refresh Models S and X now have a lithium 12V battery, good riddance to lead acid, it's ridiculous any EV is fitted with one. You don't need it if you don't need to crank an internal combustion engine. I've been saying that for years. Funny thing is that the PHEV Ioniq did have a lithium 12V battery from the start, even though the engine needs cranking! Wonder why Hyundai decided on that.

    Also, Musk has hinted at using 48V for future systems, excellent idea, is cheaper in other materials, thinner cabling etc. and gives more oomph when you need it (without the battery costing a cent more)

    I agree its absolutely nuts that the 12v lead acid system has hung on even in the most modern advanced EVs, a bit like needing to make your software compatible with Windows XP!


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    #70
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,961 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    LOL yeah I like that analogy. It really is a no brainer to use lithium batteries for BEVs. Might even be possible to not use any 12V battery at all, but instead just use the DC-DC inverter that the car has anyway. Anyone know any reason why this is not done instead when you don't need cranking amps? The DC-DC inverter in my car can do 200A, which would seem more than you would ever need for your 12V Aux system or perhaps the heating system also runs off this and needs more than 200A * 12V providing about 2.5-3kW?


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    #71
    Orebro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,233 ✭✭✭Orebro


    NIMAN wrote: »
    That Ioniq has a deposit taken.
    Didn't last long.

    Had there been no pandemic I'd have taken Phils arm off for that car, but right now I'm doing little or no mileage and that won't change for the foreseeable so just couldn't justify it.


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    #72
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,139 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Orebro wrote: »
    Had there been no pandemic I'd have taken Phils arm off for that car, but right now I'm doing little or no mileage and that won't change for the foreseeable so just couldn't justify it.

    This, for a lot of us.

    Many have 2 cars, taxed and insured, sitting in the driveways doing next to no mileage.

    It will affect people's decisions re: changing their car anytime soon.


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    #73
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,084 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    unkel wrote: »
    Might even be possible to not use any 12V battery at all, but instead just use the DC-DC inverter that the car has anyway. Anyone know any reason why this is not done instead when you don't need cranking amps?

    I suppose a safety element is that you dont want the high voltage battery to be always live when the car is idle.... maintenance etc.

    And also what would happen if the high voltage battery got completely drained... how would you then "jump start" all the sub systems and open the contactors for charging etc.

    The 12V (or future 48V system) overcomes those issues.


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    #74
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,961 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    KCross wrote: »
    what would happen if the high voltage battery got completely drained... how would you then "jump start" all the sub systems and open the contactors for charging etc.

    You could have a software solution for that, use the "unavailable" reserve for a situation like that
    KCross wrote: »
    I suppose a safety element is that you dont want the high voltage battery to be always live when the car is idle.... maintenance etc.

    Teslas are "always on" , but I guess for some maintenance / repairs, you would need to switch off the high voltage system and still want 12V to work (to lock the car as one example), so yeah, I guess that would be the (main) reason


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    #75
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,084 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    unkel wrote: »
    You could have a software solution for that, use the "unavailable" reserve for a situation like that

    And what about when that reserve is gone.... because you know someone will do that! :)


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    #76
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,961 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    KCross wrote: »
    And what about when that reserve is gone.... because you know someone will do that! :)

    I guess you could do that as is too. Get the traction battery down to zero and then mess with the aircon / electric windows for a while. If you tried really hard :p


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    #77
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,599 ✭✭✭zg3409


    unkel wrote: »
    Anyone know any reason why this is not done instead when you don't need cranking amps?

    I think it is a legal safety requirements so if main battery fails you can still operate hazard lights, put car into neutral etc.

    There is probably high losses too in keeping a high voltage to low voltage inverter on 24/7 to keep things like alarm and keyless entry powered on.

    I had to replace the battery in both keyfobs yesterday, CR2032 is your man. The little red light on the jeyfob was lighting, but car was not unlocking. I used the emergency key until I replaced the battery in the fob, and my spare fob.


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    #78
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,961 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    zg3409 wrote: »
    I think it is a legal safety requirements so if main battery fails you can still operate hazard lights, put car into neutral etc.

    Yeah, that's probably it.
    zg3409 wrote: »
    There is probably high losses too in keeping a high voltage to low voltage inverter on 24/7 to keep things like alarm and keyless entry powered on.

    Just 1% in a Tesla. Well worth the extra benefits imho. More if you use sentry mode (record security footage from all the cameras)
    zg3409 wrote: »
    I had to replace the battery in both keyfobs yesterday, CR2032 is your man.

    Yep, same in the Tesla. Got a pack in Dealz for €1.50, replaced the CR2032 in both key fobs and still have a few spares :p


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    #79
    fricatus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    https://electrek.co/2021/02/17/hyundai-reportedly-set-to-replace-kona-lg-batteries-in-korea/

    Could this lead to the recall of the Ioniq 28 kWh in Ireland? What do ye think lads?


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    #80
    Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭Kramer


    fricatus wrote: »
    https://electrek.co/2021/02/17/hyundai-reportedly-set-to-replace-kona-lg-batteries-in-korea/

    Could this lead to the recall of the Ioniq 28 kWh in Ireland? What do ye think lads?

    I wonder is it limited to the liquid cooled packs? The new 38kWh Ioniq & both variants of the Kona? Does the eNiro use different cells?

    Whatever way it is, almost a €2 billion bill & very severe damage to the mass adoption of EVs. If it spreads to other manufacturers, it could cement anti EV sentiment, just like dieselgate has cemented public opinion again diesels, regardless of how clean they are/could be.

    They could also be replacing batteries with possibly inferior cells - who knows :eek:.


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    #81
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,084 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Kramer wrote: »
    I wonder is it limited to the liquid cooled packs? The new 38kWh Ioniq & both variants of the Kona? Does the eNiro use different cells?

    I vaguely remember that Hyundai and Kia use different suppliers.... maybe eNiro is SKI which is what Hyundai are said to be looking to switch to.

    A terrible story all the same. I wonder what other manufacturers this is going to hit? It seems to be just Kona fires that were mentioned so far which is odd. You'd think it would be wider but maybe these are special cells just for Hyundai and just they have a manufacturing defect.


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    #82
    Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭Kramer


    Plus didn't they recall Konas recently, to address an issue with the BMS? Probably trying to nerf the packs in some way, to minimise the possibility of fire.

    Just like Tesla, tinkering with their owners' MCUs, to get out of footing the bill for a massive, forced recall.

    What's his name in Australia, Kadoggin is it, on Youtube, is gonna have a ball with this news :D.


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    #83
    Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭Kramer


    KCross wrote: »
    I vaguely remember that Hyundai and Kia use different suppliers.... maybe eNiro is SKI which is what Hyundai are said to be looking to switch to.

    Is that SK that's been banned from producing batteries for 10 years or something in the US?
    It's hard to keep keep up these days!


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    #84
    eagerv
    Registered Users Posts: 4,427 ✭✭✭eagerv


    Kramer wrote: »
    Plus didn't they recall Konas recently, to address an issue with the BMS? Probably trying to nerf the packs in some way, to minimise the possibility of fire.

    Just like Tesla, tinkering with their owners' MCUs, to get out of footing the bill for a massive, forced recall.
    What's his name in Australia, Kadoggin is it, on Youtube, is gonna have a ball with this news :D.


    Yes, it will be interesting, seeing he owns one..


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    #85
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,599 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Kramer wrote: »
    Is that SK that's been banned from producing batteries for 10 years or something in the US?
    It's hard to keep keep up these days!

    Yes that's mentioned in the same linked article. I hope any replacement battery charges at the same rate, and is not crippled by any BMS update


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    #86
    BigAl81
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭BigAl81


    Wow, I can't be reading that right?

    Are they going to replace every battery in every Hyundai EV globally!!?


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    #87
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,754 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Result for early Ioniq owners if so

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. outdoor furniture, roof box and EDDI

    My Active Ads (adverts.ie)



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    #88
    Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭Kramer


    slave1 wrote: »
    Result for early Ioniq owners if so

    Not necessarily.
    The air cooled 28kWh battery is reputed to have loads of cobalt. That make it very, very robust & able to tolerate 3c charge rates, not really suffer coldgate or rapidgate & ultimately, have less degradation.

    New batteries have little to no cobalt & aren't as good as a result.

    You could end up with a knobbled, slower charging & less durable battery - it remains to be seen.


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    #89
    latency89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 137 ✭✭latency89


    Kramer wrote: »
    Not necessarily.
    The air cooled 28kWh battery is reputed to have loads of cobalt. That make it very, very robust & able to tolerate 3c charge rates, not really suffer coldgate or rapidgate & ultimately, have less degradation.

    New batteries have little to no cobalt & aren't as good as a result.

    You could end up with a knobbled, slower charging & less durable battery - it remains to be seen.

    Would they get the 38kWh packs? That'd be a win

    Unkel will be seething if they do lol

    28kWh are not in production anymore?


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    #90
    latency89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 137 ✭✭latency89


    Kramer wrote: »
    I wonder is it limited to the liquid cooled packs? The new 38kWh Ioniq & both variants of the Kona? Does the eNiro use different cells?

    Whatever way it is, almost a €2 billion bill & very severe damage to the mass adoption of EVs. If it spreads to other manufacturers, it could cement anti EV sentiment, just like dieselgate has cemented public opinion again diesels, regardless of how clean they are/could be.

    They could also be replacing batteries with possibly inferior cells - who knows :eek:.

    I don't think it will do Hyundai group any harm but Korean giants LG will be in big trouble now

    Hyundai group are rumoured to be going to BYD for mass battery orders, which is massive considering how nationalist they are and VW are scaling up with Guoxuan supposedly dropping Koreans

    Korean battery industry with LG, Samsung, SK looks in trouble, 5 years ago they looked like they were gonna run away with it


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    #91
    Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭Kramer


    latency89 wrote: »
    Would they get the 38kWh packs? That'd be a win

    Unkel will be seething if they do lol

    28kWh are not in production anymore?

    No, the 38kWh packs are liquid cooled, under floor units. The 28s were rear mounted, aircooled. The 38s DC charge at half the speed of the 28s too, at 1c :eek:.

    Hyundai could be into forced buy back territory here.


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