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Calahonda52 wrote: »

So its 4 years old, 56,000 kms, 12 bars, original tyres down at 2.5 mm so probably worth a fiver

Calahonda52 wrote: »

No, that was a joke going back to the start 4 years ago

Would it be the 12v?

At least, you'll always have B mode to slow down even if there's no brakes!

12 bars just means that SoH is over 85 percent.

I presume its the white bars you are looking at and not big blue ones....

If its got 12 bars for SoH/battery capacity then you will see all of them even when battery low on charge.

However the blue ones will still show all bars when fully charged even if SoH was 50 percent.

Throw up a photo of the dash?????

11 bars.

My understanding is that this means its somewhere between 85 and 77.5 percent SoH

Down to around 80% after just 78k km and 5.5 years? That's pretty shocking. Pardon the punch 😂

I thought the newer packs from late 2013 didn't degrade as much? I guess not having any battery cooling is a brutal setup. Friend showed me pics earlier today of a new model Leaf 40kWh pack which was completely shot, big miles at 200k km, but still pretty bad after only 4 years

Our Leaf is from the same year and lost a bar recently as well

It maybe got 1-2 DC chargers a year over the past 4 years

I reckon the lack of battery conditioning is a factor, but the real problem I would say is the total lack of a charge limiter

There's no way to limit the charge on the newer Leaf (2015 and earlier had it I think) and the car will just charge to 100% with no way to limit it

That plus the tiny top buffer means the car will just sit at a high SoC, unless you're a maverick at charging management. Sitting at a high SoC for an extended time is pretty lethal for lithium batteries AFAIK

Battery heating/cooling has very little to do with Leaf battery degradation in this country.

You would need to do multiple rapid charges in the one day to get it to overheat and even then its hard to make it happen as it goes into a fail safe mode of reducing your charge rate to stop it overheating.

In the 4 years I had the Leaf I never managed to push it into the red (it shows you on the dash). The nearest I came to it was when I was driving it back from the UK and did 4 rapid charges on the trot... still didn't overheat though.... for the rest of its life it only ever did 1-2 DC charges in a day and that never came close to overheating it.

Now, if you were living in a 30°C+ climate.. that would be a different matter, but not here.

Nissan Leaf battery degradation is nearly all down to chemistry and passage of time.

The leaf cells are inferior, and especially in the first gen, were arranged in an inferior method for heat dissipation.

Zoe, I3, Tesla, even the triplets, all other EVs from that time dont have the same level of deg as the leafs have. The triplets had active battery cooling - yes in 2010!- so they don't have much if any deg. Not too familiar with the zoe architecture but I've seen a few 2014 with well over 100k km still having 98-99 SOH. My own Tesla had nearly 200k km on it when it was sold. It had free supercharging before I bought it from Tesla so I have a feeling it got a lot of supercharging. That being said, I worked out the deg and it was 7%.

Compare that to my leaf, which I put nearly 70k on in about 14 months. Pretty much all AC charging, work and home, yet it had 11% deg when I sold it with 110k km on the clock. And that was the lizard chemistry.

There's also a nasty rumor (which is as yet afaik unproven) that the leaf24 cells were not meant to be fast charged.

Exactly, so that battery hardly ever (if ever) overheated... so the degradation is not down to battery heating/cooling. Right?

i.e. You will never overheat a Leaf battery by simply AC charging it.

This is also my own experience. I had the app for monitoring the temps and the battery in mine never overheated, it was primarily AC charged and it had similar degradation as everyone else.... ~15% at 5yrs old.

I think Nissan also made a design decision that they probably now regret which is that you experience range loss from day 1 and they show it front and centre in the dash whereas other manufacturers like the i3, the MEB platform etc have a hidden buffer that gets released as the battery degrades but the owner doesn't see that happening as they still get the same range from the car.

No, I'm saying even with only AC charging the deg was much worse on the leaf than anyone else.

Leaf cells are inferior to others from the time, and before the lizard leaf, were arranged badly. Theres a reason the fluence EV has no fast charging with the same cells, and the triplets have liquid cooling.

Sure, but there is a difference between the battery being inferior and unkel's theory about battery coolers being a key part of the problem. Battery cooler would not have made any difference to you or me as our batteries didn't overheat anyway as they were primarily AC charged.... yet we still saw the degradation.

It's not the sole reason. Contributory factor, yes, but agree it's not the sole reason for sure.

Oh I'm aware of the battery swap setup, but that was a result of the battery not having the capability on spec for fast charging. When I was first interested in the fluence I joined the israel owners group where I learned the horrors of better place.

Also.. they experience bad deg there too in fluence cells.

Yes precisely. and even without fast charging they still see a lot of degradation - but moreso in hot countries

I'm open to correction but the actual traditional degradation on a 40 kwh Leaf is possibly better then earlier Leafs.

So the car will drive along as a Taxi happy out until sometime between 100 k miles and 150 k miles.

When you get issues like swelling of the pack.

I realise that James and Kate might not be everyone's cup of tea.

But this video at least shows the issue

Edit

Unfortunately for EV adoption Irish taxi use of EVs kicked off in the main with Leaf 40s.

So for too many taxi drivers their first EV battery experience is Nissan half arsed design.

Ironically James has a Model 3 customer whose done 175 k miles in UK and things are going well.

That Model 3 does Uber and other similar style taxi work.

Tesla for the win