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Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh - thread 2.0

13567…27

Comments

  • #102
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    BigAl81 wrote: »
    I wonder what the odds of getting faster "rapid" charging for the 38 Ioniq if so!!

    Doesn't the Kona also come in a 39kWh version which has a similarly rubbish rapid charging ability


  • #103
    adunis
    Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭adunis


    Well my new 12v battery cured my maladies for about 6 months,booster pack now lives permanently in the car,plugging into the power supply socket works btw rather than popping the bonnet for the battery,.I think I may make a new battery mount and fit a big ass deep cycle battery,I've also gone back to using the time clock I put on my charger.

    The ultimate solution is for Hyundai to program the f@#ker to check the battery voltage every 6 or so hours not at 72 hours and 11.6v

    The only bug bear the car has really


  • #104
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,385 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    adunis wrote: »
    Well my new 12v battery cured my maladies for about 6 months,booster pack now lives permanently in the car,plugging into the power supply socket works btw rather than popping the bonnet for the battery,.I think I may make a new battery mount and fit a big ass deep cycle battery,I've also gone back to using the time clock I put on my charger.

    The ultimate solution is for Hyundai to program the f@#ker to check the battery voltage every 6 or so hours not at 72 hours and 11.6v

    The only bug bear the car has really

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRMNKi84_yw


    TLDR, auxiliary battery saver kicks in on what seems like a timed schedule, rather than when the battery voltage gets low, and runs for about 20 minutes. This works until the voltage goes too low for aux battery saver to kick in and they you're goosed.

    Short trips seem not to have helped.


  • #105
    adunis
    Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭adunis


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRMNKi84_yw


    TLDR, auxiliary battery saver kicks in on what seems like a timed schedule, rather than when the battery voltage gets low, and runs for about 20 minutes. This works until the voltage goes too low for aux battery saver to kick in and they you're goosed.

    Short trips seem not to have helped.

    Just to go off on a tangent BK,have you found a dealer Hyundai dealer who isn't absolutely useless yet ?,due my 90k "service" I was gonna try Barlow's...


  • #106
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,385 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    adunis wrote: »
    Just to go off on a tangent BK,have you found a dealer Hyundai dealer who isn't absolutely useless yet ?,due my 90k "service" I was gonna try Barlow's...

    Any chat i've had with the mechanic, Lee, in Bolands Waterford have been positive. Not had a service with them though. Kearys Cork have always felt unprofessional, or "not on my side" with anything issues i've had. I'm doomed to keep using them though. They're minutes away from me, vs an hour+ for an alternative.


  • #107
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,404 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    adunis wrote: »
    plugging into the power supply socket works btw rather than popping the bonnet for the battery

    How's that work?


  • #108
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,731 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    How's that work?

    You might be able to charge the 12V battery through the cigarette lighter socket. Very careful with your amps though or the fuse will pop

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  • #109
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    unkel wrote: »
    You might be able to charge the 12V battery through the cigarette lighter socket. Very careful with your amps though or the fuse will pop

    I just spent a few minutes trying to work out how you could power a battery charger from the 12V socket, which was then used to charge the 12V battery. I thought you were trying to claim a magic loop of free energy :D


  • #110
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,731 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    liamog wrote: »
    I just spent a few minutes trying to work out how you could power a battery charger from the 12V socket, which was then used to charge the 12V battery. I thought you were trying to claim a magic loop of free energy :D

    :D

    No, I use one of these beasts for most of my charging needs

    f5c3442a-44ed-42fa-9a9f-47d0443a9c53.JPG.webp

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  • #111
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,233 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    liamog wrote: »
    Doesn't the Kona also come in a 39kWh version which has a similarly rubbish rapid charging ability


    Yes, it's essentially the 64kWh pack minus a few cells so the voltage drops. But the taper is still the same (so, whatever the 64kWh would be charging at, the 39kWh is charging at the same amperage but at lower voltage).

    An all in all crap "successor" to the legendary Ioniq28. I'd have loved to see an Ioniq with the 64kWh pack. Could have longer range than an S Long Range.


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  • #112
    Orebro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭Orebro


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Yes, it's essentially the 64kWh pack minus a few cells so the voltage drops. But the taper is still the same (so, whatever the 64kWh would be charging at, the 39kWh is charging at the same amperage but at lower voltage).

    An all in all crap "successor" to the legendary Ioniq28. I'd have loved to see an Ioniq with the 64kWh pack. Could have longer range than an S Long Range.

    Ioniq38 was a massive let down following on from the fabulous 28.

    Also shows how important it is for people to do their research before purchasing a new EV these days - I see the Ioniq38 are going for similar or more money than an ID3 - Ioniq38 being an inferior car and not just because you're getting a 20KWh smaller battery!


  • #113
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,385 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Orebro wrote: »
    Ioniq38 was a massive let down following on from the fabulous 28.

    Also shows how important it is for people to do their research before purchasing a new EV these days - I see the Ioniq38 are going for similar or more money than an ID3 - Ioniq38 being an inferior car and not just because you're getting a 20KWh smaller battery!

    More (if not much more) boot space. That's about it


  • #114
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,884 ✭✭✭zg3409


    unkel wrote: »
    You might be able to charge the 12V battery through the cigarette lighter socket. Very careful with your amps though or the fuse will pop

    This socket is disconnected when car is asleep so I don't see how you could charge car using it.

    In terms of car topping itself up, it does this when starting main battery charging and when preheating. Latest ioniq 28kWh updates seem to top up battery at least once a day when parked and not plugged in. (Vs 72 hours in paper instruction book)
    Main thing is to not leave car awake but not on during unloading shopping or waiting at schools etc. Similar to how the yummy mummies leave their diesel SUVs ticking over outside schools.


  • #115
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,731 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    zg3409 wrote: »
    This socket is disconnected when car is asleep so I don't see how you could charge car using it.

    Beginner's mistake. You need to get that live :D

    If there is a mechanical way to access the battery, there's obviously no need for it. But in some cars you can only access the battery by electronic means and if the battery is flat, that no workies!

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  • #116
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,385 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Tempted to get this from micks, similar to the one Andrew used on his eNiro
    https://www.micksgarage.com/d/battery-testers/products/3510145/battery-guard-bluetooth-monitor

    But also awaiting them to restock the noco booster units (good auld brits ruining the supply chain for the rest of us).


  • #117
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,884 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    Tempted to get this from micks, similar to the one Andrew used on his eNiro
    https://www.micksgarage.com/d/battery-testers/products/3510145/battery-guard-bluetooth-monitor

    I have basically the same from China BM2 battery monitor. 23 euro delivered on eBay from China.

    They don't charge your battery, and you need to be next to it to get updates and warnings. It does not really solve any issues, but if your battery is dropping say less than 12.3v then it might be worth leaving car plugged in every night and preheat set for every morning, which will cause 2 extra charges to 12v each night.

    I have a few batteries I monitor , some in cars, some on small solar panels as spares. It is/was interesting to see how ioniq handles the 12v battery, particularly if you have a night where it fails to lock the charge port and start a charge due to low 12 volt.


  • #118
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    fricatus wrote: »
    https://electrek.co/2021/02/17/hyundai-reportedly-set-to-replace-kona-lg-batteries-in-korea/

    Could this lead to the recall of the Ioniq 28 kWh in Ireland? What do ye think lads?
    BigAl81 wrote: »
    Wow, I can't be reading that right?

    Are they going to replace every battery in every Hyundai EV globally!!?
    slave1 wrote: »
    Result for early Ioniq owners if so
    Kramer wrote: »
    Not necessarily.
    The air cooled 28kWh battery is reputed to have loads of cobalt. That make it very, very robust & able to tolerate 3c charge rates, not really suffer coldgate or rapidgate & ultimately, have less degradation.

    New batteries have little to no cobalt & aren't as good as a result.

    You could end up with a knobbled, slower charging & less durable battery - it remains to be seen.
    latency89 wrote: »
    Would they get the 38kWh packs? That'd be a win
    Old diesel wrote: »
    Bit premature to talk about forced buybacks....

    1) the recall if fully confirmed by Hyundai is for a fault that the Ioniq 28 may not even have - fires are a Kona issue to date.

    This article posted in Kona thread
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hyundai-motor-electric-recall-idUKKBN2AO0JS

    says...
    The recall applies to nearly 76,000 Kona EVs built between 2018 and 2020, including about 25,000 sold in South Korea. Some Ioniq EV models and Elec City buses are also included in the recall.


    I'd say Ioniq 28kWh would be the exception there and wont be included. Its the longest on the market and it would have blown up long before now if it was affected... just guessing there but seems logical.

    Seems mainly Kona and then presumably the newer Ioniq are affected? Does the new Ioniq share a battery with the short range Kona and then hence affected?


  • #119
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,233 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    It's Ioniq38 as they use the same 39kWh battery as the mid range kona EV

    Ioniq 28 is bullet proof.


  • #120
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    KCross wrote: »
    Seems mainly Kona and then presumably the newer Ioniq are affected? Does the new Ioniq share a battery with the short range Kona and then hence affected?

    Seemingly it's all about the cell separators, the 38kWh Ioniq uses the same cells as used in the Kona models


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  • #121
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    ELM327 wrote: »
    It's Ioniq38 as they use the same 39kWh battery as the mid range kona EV
    liamog wrote: »
    Seemingly it's all about the cell separators, the 38kWh Ioniq uses the same cells as used in the Kona models

    And I wonder do any other manufacturers use the same cells?

    Surely LG Chem have supplied that to others?


  • #122
    Old diesel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,822 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Between the Bus and the Ioniq - 6 k vehicles seem to be involved. (82,000 vehicles involved - 76,000 of them Konas)

    How many Ioniqs EVs have they made????.


  • #123
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,731 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Old diesel wrote: »
    How many Ioniqs EVs have they made????.

    A lot more than 6k

    So I guess only the 39kWh models are affected by this as we expected...

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  • #124
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,459 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-hyundai-ioniq-5-arrives-retro-design-292-mile-range

    I like the look of the new ioniq

    99-hyundai-ioniq-5-2021-official-images-static-front.jpg?itok=d9wFDTIP


  • #125
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,459 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfAQA3UZXmk


  • #126
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,731 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Wrong thread!

    We have one dedicated to the Ioniq 5 over here:

    Linky

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  • #127
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,385 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    unkel wrote: »
    Wrong thread!

    We have one dedicated to the Ioniq 5 over here:

    Linky

    I really hate how they've used the ioniq name as their new bev platform name.

    Ioniq? Iconic? Ionic? The good ioniq (28)? The bad ioniq (38)? The new ioniq (5)?


  • #128
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,731 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    The good ioniq (28)? The bad ioniq (38)? The new ioniq (5)?

    :D

    The new one is certainly not the ugly Ioniq!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1PfrmCGFnk

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  • #129
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,884 ✭✭✭zg3409


    KCross wrote: »
    This article posted in Kona thread
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hyundai-motor-electric-recall-idUKKBN2AO0JS

    says...
    The recall applies to nearly 76,000 Kona EVs built between 2018 and 2020, including about 25,000 sold in South Korea. Some Ioniq EV models and Elec City buses are also included in the recall.


    I'd say Ioniq 28kWh would be the exception there and wont be included. Its the longest on the market and it would have blown up long before now if it was affected... just guessing there but seems logical.

    Seems mainly Kona and then presumably the newer Ioniq are affected? Does the new Ioniq share a battery with the short range Kona and then hence affected?

    And Hyundai is now set to replace the entire battery in:

    75,680 Kona electric cars
    5,716 Ioniq electric cars
    305 Elec City buses

    From
    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56156801


  • #130
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,233 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    if I had a 28 I wouldnt be getting the replacement


  • #131
    Silent Running
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭Silent Running


    ELM327 wrote: »
    if I had a 28 I wouldnt be getting the replacement

    Yup. If it ain't broke, don't break it.


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  • #132
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,731 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Given the numbers, the Ioniq 28 is not part of this recall.

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  • #133
    kanuseeme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭kanuseeme


    unkel wrote: »
    Given the numbers, the Ioniq 28 is not part of this recall.

    It will however be lumped in with every other problem that EV's have had, given fuel to the idea batteries need to be replaced after x years.

    Its not like a recall for airbags or some brake caliber, its a disaster for Hyundai and EV's in general.

    https://www.webdoctor.ie/online-prescriptions/#:~:text=Through%20an%20online%20medical%20questionnaire%2C%20face%2Dto%2Dface%20consultation,to%20booking%20a%20video%20consultation. not affiliated, just being helpful.



  • #134
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,385 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    kanuseeme wrote: »
    It will however be lumped in with every other problem that EV's have had, given fuel to the idea batteries need to be replaced after x years.

    Its not like a recall for airbags or some brake caliber, its a disaster for Hyundai and EV's in general.

    Good thing batteries have huge warranties across the board. What is it, 8 years or 200k km in the ioniq 28. I believe the km was reduced in the ioniq 38 though. 125 or 150k km.


  • #135
    Efitz2019
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭Efitz2019


    I have a problem with the rear passenger door. A bit of the door hand has come off. Has to happened to anyone else on here? Its 2019 Ioniq. Will the dealer fix this under warranty? Or should I try glue it back on.


  • #136
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,731 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Bring it back to the dealer, something like that shouldn't happen unless you caused damage to it yourself. So should be fixed under warranty. They might not have the part in stock though, so could mean at least two trips to the dealer. Up to you if that's worth it or for you to do a quick fix yourself.

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  • #137
    Efitz2019
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭Efitz2019


    unkel wrote: »
    Bring it back to the dealer, something like that shouldn't happen unless you caused damage to it yourself. So should be fixed under warranty. They might not have the part in stock though, so could mean at least two trips to the dealer. Up to you if that's worth it or for you to do a quick fix yourself.

    No damage done on my part. It just popped off as I opened the door! Ive put it back in place. It’s fairly loose. I’ll bring it in to be looked at. Just looking online it seems to be a common issue.


  • #138
    fricatus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    Efitz2019 wrote: »
    I have a problem with the rear passenger door. A bit of the door hand has come off. Has to happened to anyone else on here? Its 2019 Ioniq. Will the dealer fix this under warranty? Or should I try glue it back on.

    That happened me and I got it fixed under warranty. It took three visits BTW. On the first visit, they checked it out and ordered the part. The second visit was meant to be when the part was fitted, but the mechanic realised that the part would need spraying to colour match, so he arranged a third appointment for the fitting once the part was sprayed. Maybe when they order the part for you, you should mention this.

    I’ve heard Bjørn Nyland mention that this is a common enough issue too, so it’s not just you and me (or my eight-year-old being too aggressive opening the door!).


  • #139
    Efitz2019
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭Efitz2019


    fricatus wrote: »
    That happened me and I got it fixed under warranty. It took three visits BTW. On the first visit, they checked it out and ordered the part. The second visit was meant to be when the part was fitted, but the mechanic realised that the part would need spraying to colour match, so he arranged a third appointment for the fitting once the part was sprayed. Maybe when they order the part for you, you should mention this.

    I’ve heard Bjørn Nyland mention that this is a common enough issue too, so it’s not just you and me (or my eight-year-old being too aggressive opening the door!).

    Thanks for the reply. Hopefully they will sort it out. If they don’t I’ll be on to Hyundai Ireland to get it sorted. Shouldn’t be happening to a 2 year old car. Especially when the rear passenger doors get very little use! It looks like a clip broke on the back of it. Feels like very cheap plastic. I see some dealers in the uk do it under warranty and some don’t.


  • #140
    Efitz2019
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭Efitz2019


    Car booked in for inspection this Friday. They need to see if it will be covered under warranty or not!


  • #141
    irishgrover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭irishgrover


    Efitz2019 wrote: »
    Car booked in for inspection this Friday. They need to see if it will be covered under warranty or not!

    if you google "ioniq broken door handle" there are plenty of examples of this happening on the 28. I would suggest sharing the same with the dealer and politely suggest that it is an obvious design fault and should be covered under warranty.


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  • #142
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,385 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Efitz2019 wrote: »
    Car booked in for inspection this Friday. They need to see if it will be covered under warranty or not!

    Doesn't that part never move though? Blob of glue wouldn't do it any harm, no? Assuming the dealer doesn't cover it.


  • #143
    shanemkelly
    Registered Users Posts: 603 ✭✭✭shanemkelly


    Efitz2019 wrote: »
    Car booked in for inspection this Friday. They need to see if it will be covered under warranty or not!

    Exact same thing with my 171 Ioniq in late 2019. Was repaired under warranty.


  • #144
    Efitz2019
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭Efitz2019


    Left the car in today for the door handle issue. They say it’s not covered under warranty. So I had to pay for the inspection they did on the handle. I’ve contacted Hyundai Ireland to see if I have any luck with them. For people who got it resolved under warranty did you have to put up a fight? I explained how if they google it they will see its a common issue. To which I was told it was the first they seen!!


  • #145
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,385 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Efitz2019 wrote: »
    Left the car in today for the door handle issue. They say it’s not covered under warranty. So I had to pay for the inspection they did on the handle. I’ve contacted Hyundai Ireland to see if I have any luck with them. For people who got it resolved under warranty did you have to put up a fight? I explained how if they google it they will see its a common issue. To which I was told it was the first they seen!!

    Probably is though, or they're liars as usual, but that's a very narrow minded approach from them to say "we've not seen it before, so it's not an issue". How many Ioniqs sold in Ireland? It's a pretty limited supply to have the opinion that what they've see is de facto.


  • #146
    shanemkelly
    Registered Users Posts: 603 ✭✭✭shanemkelly


    Efitz2019 wrote: »
    Left the car in today for the door handle issue. They say it’s not covered under warranty. So I had to pay for the inspection they did on the handle. I’ve contacted Hyundai Ireland to see if I have any luck with them. For people who got it resolved under warranty did you have to put up a fight? I explained how if they google it they will see its a common issue. To which I was told it was the first they seen!!

    No fight needed when I went in (Mooney's, Long Mile Road). They inspected the damage, made a call (I presume), and told me that it would be repaired under warranty.
    I just had to arrange a suitable time to have the repairs done... simple as that.


  • #147
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,731 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    I'd have a very robust conversation with the service manager :D

    If that didn't help, I'd contact the MD of the dealer and then Hyundai Ireland. With lots of spilling the beans on social media if that didn't work out. Laced with a few ultimatums and eventually the small claims court. Would not take no for an answer there...

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  • #148
    Efitz2019
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭Efitz2019


    I’ve been in contact with Hyundai Ireland by phone and emailed off the pictures. Just waiting for a response. The branch manager said and I quote the reason it’s not warranty issue is because I have had the car two years and it only broke now. If it was a manufacturer issue it would have happened a few weeks after I bought the car! So basically the warranty you get with the car isn’t worth the paper it’s written on! I explained I only have someone in the back the odd time so the back doors are never opened! I have a feeling I’ve a long fight on my hands! While the car was in they did some outstanding recall on 3pin charger see attached picture.


  • #149
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    What a joke, sell a car with a 5 year warranty, and then claim that things that break after 2 years aren't a warranty issue :mad:


  • #150
    Silent Running
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭Silent Running


    Efitz2019 wrote: »
    I’ve been in contact with Hyundai Ireland by phone and emailed off the pictures. Just waiting for a response. The branch manager said and I quote the reason it’s not warranty issue is because I have had the car two years and it only broke now. If it was a manufacturer issue it would have happened a few weeks after I bought the car! So basically the warranty you get with the car isn’t worth the paper it’s written on! I explained I only have someone in the back the odd time so the back doors are never opened! I have a feeling I’ve a long fight on my hands! While the car was in they did some outstanding recall on 3pin charger see attached picture.

    That's a warranty issue all day long. The car is well within the warranty period.

    I don't know why the branch manager cares, he'll get the cost covered by Hyundai Ireland. Maybe the Warranty Manager doesn't fancy the onerous task of putting the claim through.


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  • #151
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,197 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Silent Running wrote: »
    That's a warranty issue all day long. The car is well within the warranty period.

    I don't know why the branch manager cares, he'll get the cost covered by Hyundai Ireland. Maybe the Warranty Manager doesn't fancy the onerous task of putting the claim through.

    ..because he does not give a sh1t most likely


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