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Weight lifting advice?

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  • 08-11-2020 11:56am
    #1
    MouseMan01
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭


    I'm M/42. Been working out this cycle for a little over a year. Got a fitbit a few months ago. Flagged the fact that I was eating way too little protein to add mass. Which is one of my goals.

    I do weight training for 50 mins, 4/5 days a week during lockdown. Started upping the tempo. Now squeeze the same session into 35mins.

    Lift a kettlebell. Super set and compound sets. I have 27% muscle and 24% fat. I also do cardio. Running and cycling 4/5 days a week. Very healthy diet.

    Question is this. Should I be cutting or bulking to add mass? Have healthy appetite. Boxed a bit when I was younger. Would like to do some more. So cardio and fitness is a must.

    Can anyone recommend an email newsletter or online resource containing tip, tricks and motivational content suited to my fitness plan?


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    #2
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,557 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    MouseMan01 wrote: »
    I'm M/42. Been working out this cycle for a little over a year. Got a fitbit a few months ago. Flagged the fact that I was eating way too little protein to add mass. Which is one of my goals.

    I do weight training for 50 mins, 4/5 days a week during lockdown. Started upping the tempo. Now squeeze the same session into 35mins.

    Lift a kettlebell. Super set and compound sets. I have 27% muscle and 24% fat. I also do cardio. Running and cycling 4/5 days a week. Very healthy diet.

    Question is this. Should I be cutting or bulking to add mass? Have healthy appetite. Boxed a bit when I was younger. Would like to do some more. So cardio and fitness is a must.

    Can anyone recommend an email newsletter or online resource containing tip, tricks and motivational content suited to my fitness plan?

    If your priority is cardiovascular fitness and your training/exercising is directed towards that, then it's going to make putting on muscle mass a little more difficult.

    You need to be eating more calories than you burn (doesn't need to be by a mental amount) to build muscle and the more cardio you do, the more you burn and the more you need to eat.

    But aside from that, you need to be providing a sufficient stimulus for muscle to grow with the resistance training. It's not really measured by time spent doing it but more by what you do and intensity of effort.

    If you're weight training the same day as your cardio work, something has to give, ie if you put in enough work/effort then the cardio 'suffers' and vice versa. So how you structure your training is important.


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    #3
    Cill94
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭Cill94


    What Alf has said. If putting size on is your goal then cardio will have to take a backseat, particularly the running.

    And also I'd recommend you check out this thread:
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058104438


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    #4
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Should I be cutting or bulking to add mass?

    If you bulk you will still have to do a cut. Even a small one.

    Its unlikely you would only gain muscle. You will gain fat too. Most people during bulks don't really like the way they look.

    It really depends. Would cutting NOW make you look ridiculously thin or small etc?

    If so ...do a bulk.


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    #5
    MouseMan01
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭MouseMan01


    Not willing to give up my running I'm afraid. Especially since i hope to transition into boxing at some stage. Or maybe just boxing training.

    Still looking to put on some muscle. I'm 6 foot 3 inches and 93kg. Like i stated previously 24% body fat and 27% muscle.

    I'd describe myself as well-built. Not sure whether i should be looking to lose weight and get the body fat down to get more definition? Or put on weight and gain mass?

    Have a personal trainer but gym is shut ...


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    #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    When gyms reopen lift heavier weights..... Keep calories the same but increase protein.
    I'd structure the running to 3 times a week .... Do longer sessions.

    You won't get a bout at 42 surely?


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    #7
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,557 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    MouseMan01 wrote: »
    Not willing to give up my running I'm afraid. Especially since i hope to transition into boxing at some stage. Or maybe just boxing training.

    Still looking to put on some muscle. I'm 6 foot 3 inches and 93kg. Like i stated previously 24% body fat and 27% muscle.

    I'd describe myself as well-built. Not sure whether i should be looking to lose weight and get the body fat down to get more definition? Or put on weight and gain mass?

    Have a personal trainer but gym is shut ...

    At 24% BF, then you should be looking at reducing that. You've aid yourself that your primary focus is fitness so forget about bulking. That doesn't mean you don't look to get stronger. It just means that if your primary goal is to run 4/5 times a week to improve fitness, then trying to bulk is like píssing in the wind.

    But by all means keep working at the weights, look to get stronger, put in hard work and that will pay dividends.


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    #8
    Cill94
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭Cill94


    MouseMan01 wrote: »
    Not willing to give up my running I'm afraid. Especially since i hope to transition into boxing at some stage. Or maybe just boxing training.

    Still looking to put on some muscle. I'm 6 foot 3 inches and 93kg. Like i stated previously 24% body fat and 27% muscle.

    I'd describe myself as well-built. Not sure whether i should be looking to lose weight and get the body fat down to get more definition? Or put on weight and gain mass?

    Have a personal trainer but gym is shut ...

    Never said you have to give up running, but your training needs to reflect your goals. For example I’m focused on gaining strength at the moment, so I only do 1-2 runs a week at an easy pace.

    Having said that, if you’re 24% bodyfat then you should probably avoid a bulk. Just getting stronger and cleaning up the diet will improve your body composition and health.


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    #9
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    OP something doesn't add up here.

    You say you have a healthy diet. You say you run and cycle 4 days a week. you say you do kettle bell super set and compound sets.

    Yet you are at 24% body fat??

    That doesn't make sense. Unless this is just recent as lifestyle.

    Are you being honest?


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    #10
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,734 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    OP something doesn't add up here.

    You say you have a healthy diet. You say you run and cycle 4 days a week. you say you do kettle bell super set and compound sets.

    Yet you are at 24% body fat??

    That doesn't make sense. Unless this is just recent as lifestyle.

    Are you being honest?

    Why doesn’t it make sense!? Op was simply in a calorie surplus and put on a few lbs. You can eat healthy and still put on weight


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    #11
    Black Sheep
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,036 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    Seems to me the OP is looking for something that many people are - he wants body recomposition. More lean muscle mass, less fat, and ideally at the same time.

    Doing both at once is possible but is mostly like to work out under supervision, particularly around diet.

    If the OP's bodyfat is 24% then before deciding what to do next might be worth knowing whether that's an upward trajectory, and since when. If it's been creeping up then at this point you are going to want to probably look at addressing that now. If it's been like that your whole adult life then maybe you can approach it from the other side with a focus on training and sports and see what happens for a while.

    Sooner or later, though, if you're serious about getting that % down then there will be no alternative to addressing diet. If it's as healthy as you say, and your activity levels are as high as you say, then at least you know this will be a a simple matter of calorie deficit based on portion control. Simple, not easy :pac:

    In terms of training and motivational material around that (Podcasts, articles, community) then I don't know why, but when I read the OP's posts I immediately thought of Joe DeFranco.

    He has a lot of programming that is suitable for someone who kind of wants to do it all, and has a mixture of focus on physique, functional strength and conditioning. I have known a bunch of guys in your boat who get really into his programming, particularly the ones where each workout is completely laid out for you.

    The only thing I'd say is that with DeFranco's programming, and most programming of this sort, you're not going to get it done in anything like 35 minutes per session. Maybe the conditioning days, but ... Assuming getting yourself squared away and minimally warmed-up takes you 10 minutes... Doubtful.


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    #12
    MouseMan01
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭MouseMan01


    Black Sheep wrote: »
    Seems to me the OP is looking for something that many people are - he wants body recomposition. More lean muscle mass, less fat, and ideally at the same time.

    Doing both at once is possible but is mostly like to work out under supervision, particularly around diet.

    If the OP's bodyfat is 24% then before deciding what to do next might be worth knowing whether that's an upward trajectory, and since when. If it's been creeping up then at this point you are going to want to probably look at addressing that now. If it's been like that your whole adult life then maybe you can approach it from the other side with a focus on training and sports and see what happens for a while.

    Sooner or later, though, if you're serious about getting that % down then there will be no alternative to addressing diet. If it's as healthy as you say, and your activity levels are as high as you say, then at least you know this will be a a simple matter of calorie deficit based on portion control. Simple, not easy :pac:

    In terms of training and motivational material around that (Podcasts, articles, community) then I don't know why, but when I read the OP's posts I immediately thought of Joe DeFranco.

    He has a lot of programming that is suitable for someone who kind of wants to do it all, and has a mixture of focus on physique, functional strength and conditioning. I have known a bunch of guys in your boat who get really into his programming, particularly the ones where each workout is completely laid out for you.

    The only thing I'd say is that with DeFranco's programming, and most programming of this sort, you're not going to get it done in anything like 35 minutes per session. Maybe the conditioning days, but ... Assuming getting yourself squared away and minimally warmed-up takes you 10 minutes... Doubtful.

    Yeah. I do boxercise mostly. No bouts.

    You can put on weight eating vegetables too. Plus I drink alot of non-alcoholics and have a healthy appetite.

    Is be happy with getting the BF down for more definition.

    I only burn ~480 cals in 26 mins running. I should easily be able to make that up in terms of mass gain. Fitness is def. a major goal.

    Been at the same weight for the last year. Put on 10 kg when covid hit. Lost it again.

    Just started taking protein supplements. Have to see how that works out.


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    #13
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,557 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    MouseMan01 wrote: »
    Yeah. I do boxercise mostly. No bouts.

    You can put on weight eating vegetables too. Plus I drink alot of non-alcoholics and have a healthy appetite.

    Is be happy with getting the BF down for more definition.

    I only burn ~480 cals in 26 mins running. I should easily be able to make that up in terms of mass gain. Fitness is def. a major goal.

    Been at the same weight for the last year. Put on 10 kg when covid hit. Lost it again.

    Just started taking protein supplements. Have to see how that works out.

    Its fairly hard to overeat on vegetables all the same. Saying you have a healthy diet is one thing but if you're 24% then there's enough room to improve and reduce that. That isn't at odds with getting stronger but if your primary focus is fitness then shaving off body fat will help.


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    #14
    MouseMan01
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭MouseMan01


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    Its fairly hard to overeat on vegetables all the same. Saying you have a healthy diet is one thing but if you're 24% then there's enough room to improve and reduce that. That isn't at odds with getting stronger but if your primary focus is fitness then shaving off body fat will help.

    Thanks Alf.


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    #15
    MouseMan01
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭MouseMan01


    Augeo wrote: »
    When gyms reopen lift heavier weights..... Keep calories the same but increase protein.
    I'd structure the running to 3 times a week .... Do longer sessions.

    You won't get a bout at 42 surely?

    I've heard the old adage. Lift heavier weights with higher reps to put on muscle. Also heard that it's the fastest way to get injured.

    And that you should work on form and do negatives instead.

    Others say you'll only put on muscle by doing compound exercises.

    Is there a good youtube video on lifting perhaps? Also one on road running would be useful.


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    #16
    Patsy167
    Registered Users Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭Patsy167


    Two posts from Reddit that you might find useful:

    I often refer back to this post from Reddit for a reminder/reset - https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/4pl3yc/things_i_wish_i_knew_8_years_ago/

    This post has a good breakdown on Volume, intensity and frequency:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/naturalbodybuilding/comments/fivvhv/the_quarantine_workout_template/


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    #17
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,557 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    MouseMan01 wrote: »
    I've heard the old adage. Lift heavier weights with higher reps to put on muscle. Also heard that it's the fastest way to get injured.

    And that you should work on form and do negatives instead.

    Others say you'll only put on muscle by doing compound exercises.

    Is there a good youtube video on lifting perhaps? Also one on road running would be useful.

    You don't lift heavier and for more reps. If you were do be doing sets of 8, for example, you'd be using 70-75% of your 1-rep max. Fewer reps, higher percentage; more reps, then lower.

    People get injured often because they do too many reps with a weight that's too heavy (too close to failure). You need to use a challenging weight but one where your technique is correct. The closer you get to actual failure, the more risk of your technique failing and if you're doing multiple reps of a weight with or technique, the more at risk you are of injury. So avoid that by using an appropriate weight for the number of reps.

    No need to do just negatives when you can do an exercise properly.

    You don't have to only do compounds...its a good idea to do compounds and some isolation exercises as well. Bodybuilders don't just use compounds and they don't just do isolation exercises and it's their business to build muscle.


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    #18
    MouseMan01
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭MouseMan01


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    You don't lift heavier and for more reps. If you were do be doing sets of 8, for example, you'd be using 70-75% of your 1-rep max. Fewer reps, higher percentage; more reps, then lower.

    People get injured often because they do too many reps with a weight that's too heavy (too close to failure). You need to use a challenging weight but one where your technique is correct. The closer you get to actual failure, the more risk of your technique failing and if you're doing multiple reps of a weight with or technique, the more at risk you are of injury. So avoid that by using an appropriate weight for the number of reps.

    No need to do just negatives when you can do an exercise properly.

    You don't have to only do compounds...its a good idea to do compounds and some isolation exercises as well. Bodybuilders don't just use compounds and they don't just do isolation exercises and it's their business to build muscle.

    Thanks alf.

    At home I only have 2 kettlebells (20kg and 16kg) and 1 dumbbell (13.5kg).

    I'm less limited in the gym.

    At home I try to do less reps with better form. Or in other words really get the 'stretch and flex' muscle technique going.

    I do press ups and stomach crunches as well as free weights. But i find it difficult to build my core and legs at home.

    No idea what my RM is because I'd need a gym to find that out.


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    #19
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,557 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    When you say you do less reps...how do you gauge the number of reps?


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    #20
    MouseMan01
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭MouseMan01


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    When you say you do less reps...how do you gauge the number of reps?

    Not sure I understand the question alf.

    I aim for 10-12 'clean' reps with the heavier dumbbell. Sometimes more. Sometimes less.

    Varies by exercise.


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    #21
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,557 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    MouseMan01 wrote: »
    Not sure I understand the question alf.

    I aim for 10-12 'clean' reps with the heavier dumbbell. Sometimes more. Sometimes less.

    Varies by exercise.

    Ok, just had no context. Just didn't quite get what you meant by less reps and what was the point you would decide to stop.

    Just because doing too few relative to what you could actually do would be less efficient than it could be.

    Just FWIW, your training max should be what you can do with good form rather than what you could do if you needed to grind with a little slippage in technique


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    #22
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    Why doesn’t it make sense!? Op was simply in a calorie surplus and put on a few lbs. You can eat healthy and still put on weight
    A calorie surplus is NOT healthy.

    Im not sure why anyone would think it was.

    Someone not intending to put on weight ..is not healthy eating if they are in an unintentional surplus.

    That would be 'i eat too much of the right kind of foods'.

    Which tbh is hard given their bulk. The protein bar types however ....that is another story.


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    #23
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,734 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    A calorie surplus is NOT healthy.

    Im not sure why anyone would think it was.

    Someone not intending to put on weight ..is not healthy eating if they are in an unintentional surplus.

    That would be 'i eat too much of the right kind of foods'.

    Which tbh is hard given their bulk. The protein bar types however ....that is another story.

    So, a calorie surplus is not healthy? Even if the goal is to build muscle?

    The rest of your post I’m not following at all


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    #24
    Cill94
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭Cill94


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    A calorie surplus is NOT healthy.

    Why?


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    #25
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,557 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Cill94 wrote: »
    Why?

    I think her point was more about the intention as opposed to being in a caloric surplus in and of itself.

    Being in a surplus is fine if you're bulking and it'd intentional but there are a lot of people that are overweight, and not particularly healthy, who are not intentionally in a surplus.

    But it also doesn't mean someone is unhealthy because they are unintentionally in a caloric surplus


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    #26
    Cill94
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭Cill94


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    I think her point was more about the intention as opposed to being in a caloric surplus in and of itself.

    I understand the intention, but the statement is inaccurate and misleading for someone who is coming on here looking for science-based info.

    Calorie surplus is not the issue, being above healthy bodyfat is. There are plenty of people who would be healthier by doing a temporary calorie surplus paired with training.


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    #27
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,557 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Cill94 wrote: »
    I understand the intention, but the statement is inaccurate and misleading for someone who is coming on here looking for science-based info.

    Calorie surplus is not the issue, being above healthy bodyfat is. There are plenty of people who would be healthier by doing a temporary calorie surplus paired with training.

    I don't disagree. Just trying to understand what was said and understand the intention behind it as opposed to supporting it.


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    #28
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Cill94 wrote: »
    Why?
    Its put him at 24% bodyfat.

    He is not using it up. He is not building muscle etc.


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    #29
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    I think her point was more about the intention as opposed to being in a caloric surplus in and of itself.

    Being in a surplus is fine if you're bulking and it'd intentional but there are a lot of people that are overweight, and not particularly healthy, who are not intentionally in a surplus.

    But it also doesn't mean someone is unhealthy because they are unintentionally in a caloric surplus
    IMO no beginners should bulk.

    They can't.

    They don't know what they are doing. And its questionable as to whether someone not trained to lift heavy without injury actually can do enough to build muscle at that rate.

    Lift for a year first ..then bulk.

    Also most bulks ..do put some people into an unhealthy bodyfat range for a while. Its still often not healthy. Partic if they started at an unhealthy range too.

    Also ..a lot of people just fall off the wagon.....stop working out ...after a bulk.

    Its not something most ordinary people are passionate about.

    Telling the general population to eat in calorie surplus etc is not a good idea.

    And a lot of people in gyms are just the general population. They are not bodybuilders etc or people in the habit of doing it for years. those people don't actually have weight issues.

    A bulk is a measured calories surplus ..often very very small.....not a general one ...

    I have a friend who has just been eating an extra 200 calories a day each day for 4 months. Its been enough to do it. She has been into bodybuilding for years.

    Advice has to be aimed at the person receiving it.


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    #30
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,557 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    IMO no beginners should bulk.

    They can't.

    They don't know what they are doing. And its questionable as to whether someone not trained to lift heavy without injury actually can do enough to build muscle at that rate.

    Lift for a year first ..then bulk.

    Also most bulks ..do put some people into an unhealthy bodyfat range for a while. Its still often not healthy. Partic if they started at an unhealthy range too.

    Also ..a lot of people just fall off the wagon.....stop working out ...after a bulk.

    Its not something most ordinary people are passionate about.

    Telling the general population to eat in calorie surplus etc is not a good idea.

    And a lot of people in gyms are just the general population. They are not bodybuilders etc or people in the habit of doing it for years. those people don't actually have weight issues.

    A bulk is a measured calories surplus ..often very very small.....not a general one ...

    I have a friend who has just been eating an extra 200 calories a day each day for 4 months. Its been enough to do it. She has been into bodybuilding for years.

    Advice has to be aimed at the person receiving it.

    No one has suggested he should bulk.

    Not a single person in this thread has suggested the OP should bulk.


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    #31
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    No one has suggested he should bulk.

    Not a single person in this thread has suggested the OP should bulk.

    I know.
    That is what a planned calorie surplus is.

    I was asked why I thought someone suggesting calorie surpluses for most people are unhealthy.

    Mostly they are unplanned. But even bulking or planned calorie surplus for the general public is not necessary or done well.
    So, a calorie surplus is not healthy? Even if the goal is to build muscle?

    This would be a bulk. Unsure whether the post was suggesting this to the OP or speaking in general.


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