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Dublin’s traffic it’s a two part problem.

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    #152
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    P_1 wrote: »
    That sounds horrific. People don't want to work in soulless business parks on the outside of the city. They want to work in the city where you can go for a stroll during lunch, go grab lunch somewhere, go for a sneaky pint after work.

    What you've described is basically an American hellhole where people live to work.

    Maybe for you, hell to me would he having to abandon my car in some unguarded park and ride in a part of kildare I don't need to be in , to sit next to some sweaty person screaming away on their phone on a bus for 30 minutes only to be dropped 15 minutes walk away from where I need to be and its raining.

    Id equally hate living in some apartment block where you cant fart after 11pm without getting a knock on the wall from a neighbour , with no parking to own a car , paying management fees for a lift that never works and not being able to move your arm without hitting somebody in any decent pub all weekend.

    I will always live in a detached house near a suburban village, will always need to get to the city to earn money and unless a private bus company sets up a bus stop right outside my door and brings me right to my office door with less than 5 other stops and a complete ban on children, being on the phone, junkies, smelly people and they bring back smoking and have effective air conditioning I think you'll find ill homd out on the car


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    #153
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Carlingford Locked wrote: »
    Reading this thread makes me want to pray for traffic to just get worse and worse. You deserve to sit in horrible traffic getting fat with your attitudes.

    There's no alternative for many people.

    We can't all live close to work, or within easy reach of public transport.

    While I'm warm and comfy in my car, I hope you're cold on your high horse.


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    #154
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    I will always live in a detached house near a suburban village, will always need to get to the city to earn money and unless a private bus company sets up a bus stop right outside my door and brings me right to my office door with less than 5 other stops and a complete ban on children, being on the phone, junkies, smelly people and they bring back smoking and have effective air conditioning I think you'll find ill homd out on the car

    If that's how you want to live, that's your call.

    But there's no reason for government transport policies to be designed to meet a set of preferences that are not scalable. So you can live in your bubble, and go places in your bubble, but be prepared to spend plenty of time sitting in your bubble listening to talk radio.


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    #155
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Maybe for you, hell to me would he having to abandon my car in some unguarded park and ride in a part of kildare I don't need to be in , to sit next to some sweaty person screaming away on their phone on a bus for 30 minutes only to be dropped 15 minutes walk away from where I need to be and its raining.

    Id equally hate living in some apartment block where you cant fart after 11pm without getting a knock on the wall from a neighbour , with no parking to own a car , paying management fees for a lift that never works and not being able to move your arm without hitting somebody in any decent pub all weekend.

    I will always live in a detached house near a suburban village, will always need to get to the city to earn money and unless a private bus company sets up a bus stop right outside my door and brings me right to my office door with less than 5 other stops and a complete ban on children, being on the phone, junkies, smelly people and they bring back smoking and have effective air conditioning I think you'll find ill homd out on the car

    I live in an apartment and it's well sound insulated. No problems farting at night here. :pac: As for the bus I commute using the bus every day. The vast, vast majority of the time it's grand and every one on it is grand. There's still a chance there will be some smelly person on it or someone roaring into their phone or some other equally annoying person but it's rare. The people you get on the bus are the same you'll be walking down the street beside, queuing behind at an ATM, sitting near in a coffee shop or stuck in an elevator with. If it's not a problem there it's not a problem on a bus.

    Regardless, public transport isn't going to work for everyone's commute. That's just the way it is. However, improvements to public transport infrastructure can affect many people's commute and can and does take people out of their cars. We need to improve our public transport infrastructure but that will mean that cars will be inconvenienced and negative impacted but that's just the way it is. Our roads are clogging up and cars are nowhere near as efficient at moving people as buses, trains and bikes. We need to prioritise the modes of transport that will affect the most people as they will yield the greatest benefit.


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    #156
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Maybe for you, hell to me would he having to abandon my car in some unguarded park and ride in a part of kildare I don't need to be in , to sit next to some sweaty person screaming away on their phone on a bus for 30 minutes only to be dropped 15 minutes walk away from where I need to be and its raining.

    Id equally hate living in some apartment block where you cant fart after 11pm without getting a knock on the wall from a neighbour , with no parking to own a car , paying management fees for a lift that never works and not being able to move your arm without hitting somebody in any decent pub all weekend.

    I will always live in a detached house near a suburban village, will always need to get to the city to earn money and unless a private bus company sets up a bus stop right outside my door and brings me right to my office door with less than 5 other stops and a complete ban on children, being on the phone, junkies, smelly people and they bring back smoking and have effective air conditioning I think you'll find ill homd out on the car

    Sounds like you'd be better off getting a job on the outskirts of your suburban village in that case. Stay safely outside the M50 for the sanity of everyone concerned


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    #157
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    There's no alternative for many people.

    We can't all live close to work, or within easy reach of public transport.

    While I'm warm and comfy in my car, I hope you're cold on your high horse.

    Just buy a house near work or quit your job and walk into one near your house, it's easy!


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    #158
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    P_1 wrote: »
    So dystopian capitalistic, work, sleep, consume it is then? Be a good little lad and buy your car, buy your petrol that funds despotic regimes in the middle east. Be a good little cog in the machine and slave away making a rich man richer and get nothing in return.

    Fcuk that noise

    I get in, get out, get home, and live my life outside work.

    Treating it like some social experience and thinking you're not making anyone any money just because you go for a walk on your break? Give your head a wobble and see if it knocks you back into reality.

    Though when you've jumped feet first into regimes in the middle east then I'd suspect reality is a long long way off.


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    #159
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    P_1 wrote: »
    Sounds like you'd be better off getting a job on the outskirts of your suburban village in that case. Stay safely outside the M50 for the sanity of everyone concerned

    Unless you and the other lad own properties in the city , you might be better off climbing down off the high horse, your plans on car bans, transport etc would just end up with the city getting more expensive for everything , more gentrification, more paid bike parking , less retail shopping , earlier closing times as commuters all have to exodus the city at a set time on your cattle carts


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    #160
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    I will always live in a detached house near a suburban village, will always need to get to the city to earn money and unless a private bus company sets up a bus stop right outside my door and brings me right to my office door with less than 5 other stops and a complete ban on children, being on the phone, junkies, smelly people and they bring back smoking and have effective air conditioning I think you'll find ill homd out on the car

    Grand so, enjoy the mounting costs. I do suspect you're just trolling now tbf. If you are a smoker who drives everywhere as you claim, I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about the future.


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    #161
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    There's no alternative for many people.

    We can't all live close to work, or within easy reach of public transport.

    While I'm warm and comfy in my car, I hope you're cold on your high horse.

    But Most people have alternatives don't they. Between junction 4 and 2 on the N4, almost 30,000 cars join the N4, you're telling me those areas don't have public transport alternatives?


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    #162
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Unless you and the other lad own properties in the city , you might be better off climbing down off the high horse, your plans on car bans, transport etc would just end up with the city getting more expensive for everything , more gentrification, more paid bike parking ,


    What's this 'your' business? I didn't write busconnects, but its a fact of life.
    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    less retail shopping , earlier closing times as commuters all have to exodus the city at a set time on your cattle carts
    International experience and all literature on the topic shows that reducing car access to central areas and improving public transport, cycling and pedestrian facilities always have a positive effect on footfall, the retail economy and livability in those Cities.


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    #163
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,127 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    ELM327 wrote: »
    You're correct. My main base is in the corduff area, with some days at other offices.


    And to answer your question, even if I got free bus transfers from Clonee to work I'd still skip the P+R and just drive to work.

    Just wondering, but why? If it was cheaper, quicker and better for the environment why wouldn’t you use pt?


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    #164
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Patww79 wrote: »
    Just buy a house near work or quit your job and walk into one near your house, it's easy!

    Ah, jaysus why didn't I think if that before!!? :D


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    #165
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Ah, jaysus why didn't I think if that before!!? :D

    Jobs and houses for all!!


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    #166
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    cgcsb wrote: »
    But Most people have alternatives don't they. Between junction 4 and 2 on the N4, almost 30,000 cars join the N4, you're telling me those areas don't have public transport alternatives?

    Are these public transport alternatives more convenient than driving?
    If not, then why bother. Most people don't care about cost, sure once you bought the car you may as well use it. No one really cares about the environment either, not enough to change their personal habits anyway. Convenience and comfort is king.

    Once public transport has that over driving, then people will change. It really is that simple.


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    #167
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Grand so, enjoy the mounting costs. I do suspect you're just trolling now tbf. If you are a smoker who drives everywhere as you claim, I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about the future.

    There are other ways to keep fit than cycling.

    The costs are only rising artificially hecause of terrible planing and anti car policies by successive governments. The reality is that they have done nothing (or maybe cant do anything) that is more attractive to commuters than the car, sp they just ramp up costs in the hope to penalise us.

    Realistically me abd a proportion of others are never going to leave our cars , but instead of focussing on penalising others financially so that a dreadful service is more affordable than a car why not make a good service so those not as dedicated switch


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    #168
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Probably not worth pointing it out since some people will never be satisfied, but the luas extension has just finished, metro link is in planning, as is bus connects, and so on and on. Public transport options are _constantly_ improving.
    And the number of people switching from cars to public transport (and bikes) is also constantly increasing.
    So the whole "we are forced to drive! Forced, I tell you!" thing is not convincing.


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    #169
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    RayCun wrote: »
    Probably not worth pointing it out since some people will never be satisfied, but the luas extension has just finished, metro link is in planning, as is bus connects, and so on and on. Public transport options are _constantly_ improving.
    And the number of people switching from cars to public transport (and bikes) is also constantly increasing.
    So the whole "we are forced to drive! Forced, I tell you!" thing is not convincing.

    The issue is in our time of 'housing crisis' , access to public transport or the promise of it inthe near future is enough to make a house unaffordable, pushing that person to buy somewhere with no publictransport.


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    #170
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    See, some people won't change mode no matter what the carrot is. When there's sufficient capacity (the main issue now), the stick will be used. The carpark tax returning will be first I imagine


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    #171
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    L1011 wrote: »
    See, some people won't change mode no matter what the carrot is. When there's sufficient capacity (the main issue now), the stick will be used. The carpark tax returning will be first I imagine

    These people don't want any carrot offered though. They just want the stick beating people out of cars and feck everyone so they can go to bed with a smile on their face.


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    #172
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Patww79 wrote: »
    These people don't want any carrot offered though. They just want the stick beating people out of cars and feck everyone so they can go to bed with a smile on their face.

    I think you'll find threads full of people looking for the carrots on here. Bus priority measures, rail electrification, Metro and Luas expansion, railcar orders.


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    #173
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    L1011 wrote: »
    I think you'll find threads full of people looking for the carrots on here. Bus priority measures, rail electrification, Metro and Luas expansion, railcar orders.

    I'd love to see some or all of them but there's also as many, or more, just want car drivers publicly flogged for the simple reason that they're right and everyone should do what they want regardless of whether it'll actually work or not.


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    #174
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    L1011 wrote: »
    I think you'll find threads full of people looking for the carrots on here. Bus priority measures, rail electrification, Metro and Luas expansion, railcar orders.

    considering the congestion of our road network, more needs to be done for rail and non road based public transit.


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    #175
    Carlingford Locked
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 84 ✭✭Carlingford Locked


    The reality is, a huge percentage of the population want to drive everywhere, and want to live in one off houses in the middle of nowhere. Because of these limitations, we wont be seeing any major changes in our behaviours in my lifetime anyway. Traffic will just get worse as more and more get into cars, and it's hard for any Government to get any backing for major public transport plans. I can't see the Metro happening for one, another recession will hit and it will be scrapped. Really though CPOing of lots of properties would be required to get Dublin flowing properly. Again that wont happen. So people like Pat etc can drive, they're happy enough sitting in traffic, and I'll happily cycle to work in the rain, it suits all of us, doesn't it?


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    #176
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    considering the congestion of our road network, more needs to be done for rail and non road based public transit.

    There's not much more that can be done in Dublin; additional rail capacity in particular will reduce road congestion as people will switch

    Also, there will be bus priority measures removing car capacity from some roads, whether you like it or not. City centre and some inner suburban areas mostly

    You have to have a particularly mindset to find driving anything other than hideous in Dublin these days


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    #177
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    RayCun wrote: »
    Probably not worth pointing it out since some people will never be satisfied, but the luas extension has just finished, metro link is in planning, as is bus connects, and so on and on. Public transport options are _constantly_ improving.
    And the number of people switching from cars to public transport (and bikes) is also constantly increasing.
    So the whole "we are forced to drive! Forced, I tell you!" thing is not convincing.

    All great for people living in Dublin.

    But the hundreds of thousands who live in the hinterland, outside the reach of Dublin bus still aren't looked after.

    It's fine if you work in the city centre, as all transport revolves around it, but if you dont, you're getting at least 2 public transport links, and that's after you've parked your car in the non existent park and ride.

    Say I live in Ashbourne and work in Sandyford. It's a 35 minute drive around the M50, if I leave at 7am tomorrow.

    It's 90 minutes through Dublin city centre on public transport and Ashbourne is lucky enough to have a good bus to Dublin city and Sandyford is lucky enough to be served by the Luas.

    Pick almost any two locations that aren't Dublin city centre and you've the same scenario or worse.

    Bray to Glasnevin is the same.
    Even Bray to Terenure is 30 minutes quicker by car, and that's all before I've been standing in the rain waiting for a bus, or walking from point A to B with my work bag.

    And all these places are considered well served by public transport.
    L1011 wrote: »
    There's not much more that can be done in Dublin; additional rail capacity in particular will reduce road congestion as people will switch

    Also, there will be bus priority measures removing car capacity from some roads, whether you like it or not. City centre and some inner suburban areas mostly

    You have to have a particularly mindset to find driving anything other than hideous in Dublin these days
    It is hideous. But it's still faster than public transport for most journeys if you're coming from beyond the M50.


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    #178
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    In the last few months, the amount of carriages on the Maynooth line have been reduced, to encourage more people to use the train.

    Maynooth train station has SFA parking spaces.
    L1011 wrote: »
    There's not much more that can be done in Dublin; additional rail capacity in particular will reduce road congestion as people will switch
    A more frequent service is needed. They also need to drop the prices further along the railway lines, to encourage people in commuter towns to use public transport. Going from Maynooth to the next stop, Maynooth to the next stop west is €2.70, whilst Maynooth to Dublin Connolly is €4.90
    L1011 wrote: »
    Also, there will be bus priority measures removing car capacity from some roads, whether you like it or not. City centre and some inner suburban areas mostly
    Removing car capacity, whilst not putting anywhere to park the cars.
    L1011 wrote: »
    You have to have a particularly mindset to find driving anything other than hideous in Dublin these days
    The polar opposite of the cyclist.


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    #179
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,482 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    It's fine if you work in the city centre, as all transport revolves around it, but if you dont, you're getting at least 2 public transport links, and that's after you've parked your car in the non existent park and ride.

    Say I live in Ashbourne and work in Sandyford. It's a 35 minute drive around the M50, if I leave at 7am tomorrow.
    however, improving public transport for people living beside or within the M50 will still improve things for you as it will remove congestion from the M50.

    i know someone doing ashbourne to cherrywood. in this particular instance, i've little sympathy for them as they moved to ashbourne while already working in cherrywood; while there is definite truth in the story of people having to commute those distances because that's the situation forced on them, i also know lots of people who have chosen to live places where they simply cannot survive without a car.
    a colleague moved to about 5km past gorey while working in sandyford. and expected us to have to put up with his beefs about the commute. and this is a common story.


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    #180
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    however, improving public transport for people living beside or within the M50 will still improve things for you as it will remove congestion from the M50.

    i know someone doing ashbourne to cherrywood. in this particular instance, i've little sympathy for them as they moved to ashbourne while already working in cherrywood; while there is definite truth in the story of people having to commute those distances because that's the situation forced on them, i also know lots of people who have chosen to live places where they simply cannot survive without a car.
    a colleague moved to about 5km past gorey while working in sandyford. and expected us to have to put up with his beefs about the commute. and this is a common story.

    He should have just bought a house for the same price in Sandyford as he got the one in Gorey for. Problem solved.


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    #181
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,482 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    he wanted his half acre of lawn so he could pootle about on it on a ride on lawnmower.
    a vehicle second only to the car in desirability for many irish people.


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