Does multiculturalism ruin Santa?

Paddy Cow · 10-12-2018 2:20pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You do know that Santa isn't a religious thing right? You will not see a Santa inside a church. The Santa we all know & love isn't St Nicholas.

Now you know that Santa isn't a religious thing at all you might realise that children of all colours & religions believe in Santa. Just look at them queuing up to visit Santa especially the shopping centres in areas where we have multiple cultures. Maybe you wouldn't notice outside of Dublin.

While we are on the subject of Christmas I might as well point out that the tree & decorations aren't religious at all either. Decorating trees and shrubs stems back before Christianity. As a result of this 10s of thousands of Irish homes will be decorated even though the owners aren't Christian.

I've always been a big fan of not letting religion get in touch the way of a good Christmas /Yule time

Wow. You're so clever. You're probably more intelligent than Steven Fry *sarcasm* I know Santa isn't a religious thing. I never said it was.

ohnonotgmail · 10-12-2018 2:33pm

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Wow. You're so clever. You're probably more intelligent than Steven Fry *sarcasm* I know Santa isn't a religious thing. I never said it was.

So what is this about then?

We were all white, Irish and apart from one Protestant kid in the class, Catholic. So we all had the same belief about Santa. Nowadays there is a lot of diversity, which means there will be kids in the class for whom Santa isn't a thing.

Paddy Cow · 10-12-2018 2:35pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

So what is this about then?

Shows that we all had similar backgrounds, no diversity, unlike today. Nowhere did I say that Santa = religion.

ohnonotgmail · 10-12-2018 2:36pm

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Shows that we all had similar backgrounds, no diversity, unlike today. Nowhere did I say that Santa = religion.

you said your belief in santa came from your religion. Well either that or you just worded it really really badly.

super_furry · 10-12-2018 2:41pm

I think the one thing we can all agree on, is that Gremlins is the best Christmas film.

Sleeper12 · 10-12-2018 2:45pm

Paddy Cow wrote:

Wow. You're so clever. You're probably more intelligent than Steven Fry *sarcasm* I know Santa isn't a religious thing. I never said it was.

I'm not having a pop at you. I know that the thread is tongue & cheek but you are moving the goal posts here. You link it to religion in the opening post. I was responding directly to you linking it to religion.

Getting away from the above, something else for you to think about: most children from different cultures living in Ireland were born here. They are actually Irish people with possibly brown skin but Irish just the same. They learn about santa from birth the same as you & me. It's in the movies & TV. They shop in the same shops as you & I. They see santa. Most kids starting school are on a level playing field as far as santa is concerned. They don't just get off a boat and discover santa for the for time.

Paddy Cow · 10-12-2018 2:47pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you said your belief in santa came from your religion. Well either that or you just worded it really really badly.

No I didn't. I said we were white, Irish and Catholic. Our similar backgrounds meant we had similar beliefs about Santa. It's not hard to understand.

Beechwoodspark · 10-12-2018 2:48pm

I think all this winterval happy holidays rubbish should be fcuked in the bin. Ppl afraid of their own shadows these days.

Nollaig Shona duit!!

RayCun · 10-12-2018 2:49pm

Paddy Cow wrote: »

No I didn't. I said we were white, Irish and Catholic. Our similar backgrounds meant we had similar beliefs about Santa. It's not hard to understand.

oh, you believe in Santa because you're white? Makes sense.

Grayson · 10-12-2018 2:52pm

super_furry wrote: »

I think the one thing we can all agree on, is that Gremlins is the best Christmas film.

For children (above a certain age).

For adults it has to be die hard.

Paddy Cow · 10-12-2018 2:53pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm not having a pop at you. I know that the thread is tongue & cheek but you are moving the goal posts here. You link it to religion in the opening post. I was responding directly to you linking it to religion.

No I didn't. You jumped to that conclusion. I said we had similar backgrounds which meant we had similar beliefs about Santa.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Getting away from the above, something else for you to think about: most children from different cultures living in Ireland were born here. They are actually Irish people with possibly brown skin but Irish just the same. They learn about santa from birth the same as you & me. It's in the movies & TV. They shop in the same shops as you & I. They see santa. Most kids starting school are on a level playing field as far as santa is concerned. They don't just get off a boat and discover santa for the for time.

Not all children have the Santa experience. We have one poster who doesn't do it with his kids but makes sure his kids doesn't ruin it for others. We have another who was raised Jehovah's Witness who never had Santa but again, didn't ruin it for the other kids. Then we have a teacher who said that yes, some kids who don't have Santa do tell the others. That's what I was asking about in the op. With greater diversity now, it stands to reason that there are going to be more kids in school that don't believe in Santa and I was wondering if those kids tell the other kids.

Sleeper12 · 10-12-2018 2:54pm

Paddy Cow wrote:

No I didn't. I said we were white, Irish and Catholic. Our similar backgrounds meant we had similar beliefs about Santa. It's not hard to understand.

What has being a Catholic got to do with santa? Or white for that matter. You do know that they have santa in Africa? Have you never seen a black santa? They look strange to me but they do exist. I've seen Mexican Santa's. Steady on with the white thing

I don't mean any disrespect but you should get out & see the world & different cultures. I don't think you really understand the whole culture thing at all.

Paddy Cow · 10-12-2018 2:54pm

RayCun wrote: »

oh, you believe in Santa because you're white? Makes sense.

Nope. Lack of diversity meant we had similar beliefs.

Paddy Cow · 10-12-2018 2:56pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

What has being a Catholic got to do with santa? Or white for that matter. You do know that they have santa in Africa? Have you never seen a black santa? They look strange to me but they do exist. I've seen Mexican Santa's. Steady on with the white thing

I don't mean any disrespect but you should get out & see the world & different cultures. I don't think you really understand the whole culture thing at all.

Now you're just being obtuse. I said white, Irish and Catholic to show there was no diversity. Trying to make out there is racist undertones is ridiculous.

Zorya · 10-12-2018 3:17pm

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Now you're just being obtuse. I said white, Irish and Catholic to show there was no diversity. Trying to make out there is racist undertones is ridiculous.

Don't worry. Sooner or later, almost everyone gets to be a racist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mabf3R9n7-4

Sleeper12 · 10-12-2018 3:23pm

Paddy Cow wrote:

Now you're just being obtuse. I said white, Irish and Catholic to show there was no diversity. Trying to make out there is racist undertones is ridiculous.

Not racist just a complete lack of understanding of different cultures. You also don't seem to realise that santa is now almost worldwide in almost every culture. We already have Black Santa's , Asian Santa's etc. I don't see the culture difference you are talking about ruining Santa. We've always had a tiny minority of people who refuse to allow their children to believe in santa here in Ireland. Many of these are Irish, white & Catholic. There was never a time in Ireland where every child was allowed to believe in santa.

RayCun · 10-12-2018 3:23pm

When I was a kid, Christmas didn't last for six weeks. So it was quite possible that other kids had different opinions about Santa, that didn't come up because it was possible to talk about different things.

Dublin Mum · 10-12-2018 3:27pm

Each of my children has had the occasional child in their class tell them that there's no Santa, it's your parents. They never believe them so no harm done. I suppose it's natural if a child feels left out of a tradition and spends months listening to the majority of children in their class talking about writing letters and what toys they're asking Santa for that they'll only take so much of this before they'll tell them the truth.
My children go to a catholic school by the way, and the children who've told them there's no santa are from non-irish backgrounds, though no doubt as they get older there will be plenty of Irish children too happy to tell them the truth about Santa too!

Grayson · 10-12-2018 3:43pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not racist just a complete lack of understanding of different cultures. You also don't seem to realise that santa is now almost worldwide in almost every culture. We already have Black Santa's , Asian Santa's etc. I don't see the culture difference you are talking about ruining Santa. We've always had a tiny minority of people who refuse to allow their children to believe in santa here in Ireland. Many of these are Irish, white & Catholic. There was never a time in Ireland where every child was allowed to believe in santa.

The only family I knew when I was a kid that didn't believe in Santa were Irish evangelical born again christians. They thought it was a pagan/false god type belief that detracted from a belief in God.

So they told their kids that if they were good that god would leave presents for them on xmas eve.

Lux23 · 10-12-2018 4:01pm

My partner's personal trainer is a Christian of some kind* and he doesn't do Santa, the Tooth Fairy or even celebrate birthdays with his kids. I just think he's tight, to be honest.

*Not a Jehovah's Witness, which I hear don't believe in anything fun or lifesaving.

Deebles McBeebles · 10-12-2018 4:04pm

Lux23 wrote: »

My partner's personal trainer is a Christian of some kind* and he doesn't do Santa, the Tooth Fairy or even celebrate birthdays with his kids. I just think he's tight, to be honest.

Whatever you do, don't tell your partner that.

Lux23 · 10-12-2018 4:08pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Whatever you do, don't tell your partner that.

I'm always telling him. Or was that a joke that went over my head?

Deebles McBeebles · 10-12-2018 4:17pm

Lux23 wrote: »

I'm always telling him. Or was that a joke that went over my head?

Not a very good joke but a joke nonetheless.

Cienciano · 10-12-2018 4:33pm

thegreengoblin wrote: »

What a thread. A simple one word answer to the OP's question (hint: it's No) yet before you can say 'bloody foreigners' you get people stomping in, pitchforks at the ready, telling everyone loudly and proudly that they're not changing their traditions and if anyone doesn't like it they can go back to where they came from.

Except of course, literally no one is actually forcing them to change their ways.

Exactly, I don't know why people think there's a "war on Christmas". The odd shop in America might change from Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays because a team of accountants and marketing people have worked out it will make them slightly more money and everyone loses their shít.

Ray Donovan wrote: »

I’m a primary school teacher and I make sure our school has a crib in the most prominent place in the building. I’m sure this offends many but it’s a Catholic school so tough ****.

It offends no one, no need to pretend you're making a stand against some oppressors that don't exist.

"But they want to ban Fairytail of New York". There is no "they" and some idiot making a comment to get noticed is meaningless.

Grayson · 10-12-2018 4:37pm

Ray Donovan wrote: »

I’m a primary school teacher and I make sure our school has a crib in the most prominent place in the building. I’m sure this offends many but it’s a Catholic school so tough ****.

It's a catholic school. Why would anyone complain? It'd be like someone complaining a menorah is in a jewish school.

It'd be different in a completely secular school. but i see no reason why it couldn't be there, along with a tree, if they do similar gestures for other religions too.

Lux23 · 10-12-2018 4:41pm

I quite like cribs, and I would consider myself a secularist. I hate when they put the Baby Jesus in early though.

Grayson · 10-12-2018 4:50pm

Lux23 wrote: »

I quite like cribs, and I would consider myself a secularist. I hate when they put the Baby Jesus in early though.

I'm an atheist and it annoyed the hell of of me.

If you're going to do something, do it right.

sbsquarepants · 10-12-2018 4:56pm

Lux23 wrote: »

I quite like cribs, and I would consider myself a secularist. I hate when they put the Baby Jesus in early though.

Myself and the brother threw together a crib years back with various figures we found around the house, I can't remember who exactly we had, but I think he-man was joseph, mary was a nun who flashed her boobs when you squeezed her and they had an adorable little baby gonzo.......at the appropriate time of course, otherwise it's a mockery!

Very festive so it was:D

Wanderer78 · 10-12-2018 5:00pm

sbsquarepants wrote:

Myself and the brother threw together a crib years back with various figures we found around the house, I can't remember who exactly we had, but I think he-man was joseph, mary was a nun who flashed her boobs when you squeezed her and they had an adorable little baby gonzo.......at the appropriate time of course, otherwise it's a mockery!

You should sell these

Odhinn · 10-12-2018 5:04pm

Lux23 wrote: »

My partner's personal trainer is a Christian of some kind* and he doesn't do Santa, the Tooth Fairy or even celebrate birthdays with his kids. I just think he's tight, to be honest.

*Not a Jehovah's Witness, which I hear don't believe in anything fun or lifesaving.

Probably an evangelical - though he could be a lesser spotted seventh day adventist.

Sleeper12 · 10-12-2018 5:13pm

Lux23 wrote: »

I quite like cribs, and I would consider myself a secularist. I hate when they put the Baby Jesus in early though.

He was born in the summer or autumn so everyone puts him in early (or late) when you think about it :pac:

RayCun · 10-12-2018 5:29pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

He was born in the summer or autumn so everyone puts him in early (or late) when you think about it :pac:

how do you know when he was born?

Sleeper12 · 10-12-2018 5:37pm

RayCun wrote: »

how do you know when he was born?

There is one thing we do know & that it wasn't a winter birth.Lambing season suggests Spring.

Then you have science

Scholars also debate the month of Jesus' birth. In 2008, astronomer Dave Reneke argued that Jesus was born in the summer. The Star of Bethlehem, Reneke told New Scientist, may have been Venus and Jupiter coming together to form a bright light in the sky. Using computer models, Reneke determined that this rare event occurred on June 17, in the year 2 B.C.

Or

Other researchers have claimed that a similar conjunction, one between Saturn and Jupiter, occurred in October of 7 B.C., making Jesus an autumn baby.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 10-12-2018 5:40pm

German cartoonist Thomas Nast came up with the fat man in a red suit. I think Coca Cola were the first to use his illustrations.

Nast was also famous for his negative depictions of the Irish. The toothless ape in a tattered suit pulling off a clay pipe and swigging from a bottle of whiskey.

A regular contributor to Punch magazine.

RayCun · 10-12-2018 5:46pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There is one thing we do know & that it wasn't a winter birth.Lambing season suggests Spring.

how do you know he was born during lambing season?

Scholars also debate the month of Jesus' birth. In 2008, astronomer Dave Reneke argued that Jesus was born in the summer. The Star of Bethlehem, Reneke told New Scientist, may have been Venus and Jupiter coming together to form a bright light in the sky. Using computer models, Reneke determined that this rare event occurred on June 17, in the year 2 B.C.
...
Other researchers have claimed that a similar conjunction, one between Saturn and Jupiter, occurred in October of 7 B.C., making Jesus an autumn baby.

How do you know there was a bright star in the sky when Jesus was born?

There was a Mars/Jupiter conjunction this year, did you notice how spectacular it was? Do you remember the crowds that stayed up all night to watch the last Saturn/Jupiter conjunction?

TCM · 10-12-2018 5:52pm

John Sacrimoni wrote:

I dont know about Santa, but there are no nativity plays or nativity crib displays in my daughters school anymore.

Ah yes, 2 persons might be offended.

ohnonotgmail · 10-12-2018 5:59pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There is one thing we do know & that it wasn't a winter birth.Lambing season suggests Spring.

Then you have science

Or

The article on his own website seems more invested in the mythology than the science. He gives a date of 7BC not 2BC

Sleeper12 · 10-12-2018 6:04pm

RayCun wrote:

how do you know he was born during lambing season?

The Bible tells you so. Shepherds & lambs =lambing season = spring.

RayCun wrote:

How do you know there was a bright star in the sky when Jesus was born?

Again Bible tells you about the bright star.

ohnonotgmail · 10-12-2018 6:09pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There is one thing we do know & that it wasn't a winter birth.Lambing season suggests Spring.

Then you have science

Scholars also debate the month of Jesus' birth. In 2008, astronomer Dave Reneke argued that Jesus was born in the summer. The Star of Bethlehem, Reneke told New Scientist, may have been Venus and Jupiter coming together to form a bright light in the sky. Using computer models, Reneke determined that this rare event occurred on June 17, in the year 2 B.C.

Or

Since when is June lambing season?

beveragelady · 10-12-2018 6:10pm

topper75 wrote: »

Lets's weigh it up then.

A. Our kids get a consumerist crazyfest with any amount of expensive toys and literally boxes of chocalate and two weeks off school.

B. The other shower get what?... a few sesame seed snack bars for finishing their Eid starvation period or something...

Can't see anything but one-way traffic on this.

Our kids and their kids. Us and them.

Lovely.

Sleeper12 · 10-12-2018 6:11pm

ohnonotgmail wrote:

The article on his own website seems more invested in the mythology than the science. He gives a date of 7BC not 2BC

No one knows for sure what year Jesus was born. Most agree that it our calendar is wrong by a few years. 5 or 6 years I think

ohnonotgmail · 10-12-2018 6:12pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

No one knows for sure what year Jesus was born. Most agree that it our calendar is wrong by a few years. 5 or 6 years I think

the article you linked to is from 2009. he seems to have changed his mind since.

Sleeper12 · 10-12-2018 6:12pm

ohnonotgmail wrote:

Since when is June lambing season?

You'd still have lambs & shepherd's in June but not in December

ohnonotgmail · 10-12-2018 6:15pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You'd still have lambs & shepherd's in June but not in December

you know it is all a load of nonsense, dont you?

Sleeper12 · 10-12-2018 6:21pm

ohnonotgmail wrote:

you know it is all a load of nonsense, dont you?

I believe in Santa quicker than God but if we are talking about Jesus then we can only go on what the Bible says. If you want to talk about spiderman then we can only go on the comic books.

ohnonotgmail · 10-12-2018 6:26pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I believe in Santa quicker than God but if we are talking about Jesus then we can only go on what the Bible says. If you want to talk about spiderman then we can only go on the comic books.

which is kinda the problem. Even at that they dont agree about him.

topper75 · 10-12-2018 6:32pm

Lux23 wrote: »

I quite like cribs, and I would consider myself a secularist. I hate when they put the Baby Jesus in early though.

Yeah me too. A crib keeps the house civillised and signals to 'heathens' to behave themselves.

What is the deal with those Maji lads though. You put them in the day the stuff goes back in the attic?!

topper75 · 10-12-2018 6:35pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

German cartoonist Thomas Nast came up with the fat man in a red suit. I think Coca Cola were the first to use his illustrations.

Nast was also famous for his negative depictions of the Irish. The toothless ape in a tattered suit pulling off a clay pipe and swigging from a bottle of whiskey.

A regular contributor to Punch magazine.

Ah so that is why I'm still waiting for my Scalectrix decades later. Santa's creator hated the Irish, ergo...
Nothing to do with the ould lad being on the scratcher after all.

topper75 · 10-12-2018 6:37pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

No one knows for sure what year Jesus was born. Most agree that it our calendar is wrong by a few years. 5 or 6 years I think

What system did they use before Jesus?

The people in 6BC wouldn't know what 6BC was.

Sleeper12 · 10-12-2018 6:56pm

topper75 wrote:

What system did they use before Jesus?

The bc system didn't come in till around 400ad believe it or not. This is why the year of his birth is almost certainly wrong

Does multiculturalism ruin Santa?

Comments