Blacklisted by a Dentist

12-05-2019 11:59am

my3cents wrote: »

Probably because there is a simple answer to people forgetting its called writing it down. You may be too arrogant to appreciate simple written instructions others may not be.

I have great faith in adults ability to follow simple verbal instructions. To be honest, in 25 years no one has ever said to me after post op instructions “sorry I don’t understand what you mean about keeping it clean, not drinking alcohol, smoking etc” it’s pretty basic stuff, nothing to do with arrogance, more an acknowledgement of basic brain function.

How do you blame someone else, for something you forgot? Basically you are saying, how my brain works is your fault.

my3cents · 12-05-2019 12:00pm

Balmed Out wrote: »

Thats not the same thing at all, if its too much for you then ring and ask. You shouldn't need your hand held for everything.

Even more reason for the practice to provide written instructions - it saves their time being wasted with unnecessary phone calls.

12-05-2019 12:05pm

my3cents wrote: »

Even more reason for the practice to provide written instructions - it saves their time being wasted with unnecessary phone calls.

Maybe if you asked the dentist now, they may have wished they gave the op a written, and just to cover all bases, Braille list of do’s and don’ts, but that may not have prevented the dry socket and there is no guarantee that the op would not have found another reason to complain.

Again, I find it hard to believe he got a PFO just based on the account he has given here.

Balmed Out · 12-05-2019 12:09pm

my3cents wrote:

Even more reason for the practice to provide written instructions - it saves their time being wasted with unnecessary phone calls.

Not many people cant remember simple instructions.

Strumms · 12-05-2019 12:13pm

Balmed Out wrote: »

Thats not the same thing at all, if its too much for you then ring and ask. You shouldn't need your hand held for everything.

No but you shouldn’t have to ring and ask. In my experience a document with ‘aftercare instructions’ was given. That isn’t having your hand held. It is a professional, well considered method of communicating the requirements of the recovery from the procedure. If you perceive that as ‘hand holding’ that’s your prerogative but from the point of view of a patient it is the best method of communicating aftercare especially but not limited to folks having been sedated, anesthesia administered and stressed / nervous into the bargain. ‘ No, paper shouldn’t be issued, it’s enough to be told ‘ :rolleyes: right.

IvoryTower · 12-05-2019 12:24pm

I have awful teeth, many dentist trips every year, they're unfortunately very fragile. 4 dentist in about 6 years and I've yet to get written instructions for anything, fillings, root canal, extractions and cap. Are they all bad practices/dentists?

I certainly wouldnt have blamed the dentist if I didn't listen/pay attention. I recall the rules were very straightforward so it wasn't hard to follow.

Strumms · 12-05-2019 12:33pm

IvoryTower wrote: »

I have awful teeth, many dentist trips every year, they're unfortunately very fragile. 4 dentist in about 6 years and I've yet to get written instructions for anything, fillings, root canal, extractions and cap. Are they all bad practices/dentists?

I certainly wouldnt have blamed the dentist if I didn't listen/pay attention. I recall the rules were very straightforward so it wasn't hard to follow.

No, but have you ever been sedated or given an anesthesia or anything ? Or indeed any other procedure that can and will impair cognitive function temporarily ?

Dial Hard · 12-05-2019 12:36pm

Strumms wrote:

No, but have you ever been sedated or given an anesthesia or anything ? Or indeed any other procedure that can and will impair cognitive function temporarily ?

For the love of... The OP was given local anaesthetic. Local does not impair cognitive function.

MrMusician18 · 12-05-2019 12:38pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

For the love of... The OP was given local anaesthetic. Local does not impair cognitive function.

https://www.rxlist.com/xylocaine-dental-injection-side-effects-drug-center.htm

Right, I suppose that's because it's your experience that means it's the same for everyone.

12-05-2019 12:39pm

Strumms wrote: »

. ‘ No, paper shouldn’t be issued, it’s enough to be told ‘ :rolleyes: right.

Correct, for local anaesthetic procedures.

Strumms · 12-05-2019 12:40pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

For the love of... The OP was given local anaesthetic. Local does not impair cognitive function.

True, in THIS case, but for above reasons which I have already set out...what is the issue with a dentist printing one A4 page of aftercare instructions in conjunction with a briefing. He has to type nothing. No time needed. It’s a fûcking standard document saved on his PC. CAN be referenced by the patient at home, by relatives too.

ballsymchugh · 12-05-2019 12:41pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I have great faith in adults ability to follow simple verbal instructions. To be honest, in 25 years no one has ever said to me after post op instructions “sorry I don’t understand what you mean about keeping it clean, not drinking alcohol, smoking etc” it’s pretty basic stuff, nothing to do with arrogance, more an acknowledgement of basic brain function.

How do you blame someone else, for something you forgot? Basically you are saying, how my brain works is your fault.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 12-05-2019 12:58pm

Giving people written instructions assumes they can read, which a large proportion of the adult population can not. Written instructions are a good thing but a lot of people loose them or ignore them. You have to tell people what you want them to do and hope they remember to do it.

IvoryTower · 12-05-2019 1:20pm

Strumms wrote: »

No, but have you ever been sedated or given an anesthesia or anything ? Or indeed any other procedure that can and will impair cognitive function temporarily ?

local anaesthetic every time. Sometimes a lot more than others so I can understand you can feel a little woozy after but to ignore the very simple instructions is just a mistake, the op will know to listen next time

Strumms · 12-05-2019 1:25pm

IvoryTower wrote: »

local anaesthetic every time. Sometimes a lot more than others so I can understand you can feel a little woozy after but to ignore the very simple instructions is just a mistake, the op will know to listen next time

It’s not a question of not listening or ignoring maybe they forgot, again, one piece of A4 paper, my dentist was even professional enough to laminate mine.

iamwhoiam · 12-05-2019 1:30pm

Kareem Clean Stereoscope wrote: »

Giving people written instructions assumes they can read, which a large proportion of the adult population can not. Written instructions are a good thing but a lot of people loose them or ignore them. You have to tell people what you want them to do and hope they remember to do it.

A large proportion of the adult population can't read ? Where are the facts for that ?

12-05-2019 1:58pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

A large proportion of the adult population can't read ? Where are the facts for that ?

Surprisingly, An OECD survey shows that 1 in 6 Irish adults has difficulty understanding basic written text.

https://www.nala.ie/literacy/literacy-in-ireland

iamwhoiam · 12-05-2019 2:05pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Surprisingly, An OECD survey shows that 1 in 6 Irish adults has difficulty understanding basic written text.

https://www.nala.ie/literacy/literacy-in-ireland

Thanks for the link .I am shocked at that fact .

FluffyTowel · 12-05-2019 2:38pm

Wow. Just stumbled upon this thread, and wanted to post in support of the OP.

Why would a dentist not give written instructions for aftercare after a procedure? Is there any reason not to?

Not everybody retains everything they are told at all times. People write things down, make lists, have spreadsheets of things to do.

Sure its printed on prescriptions, how many you should take a day. Should it be scrapped because people who can't remember 3 tablets per day for 7 days don't deserve to get better?

If the potential outcome of not following instructions is a dry socket, I would expect more than some verbal instruction, which has no protocol, and may vary from dentist to dentist (correct me if I'm wrong).

12-05-2019 2:43pm

FluffyTowel wrote: »

Wow. Just stumbled upon this thread, and wanted to post in support of the OP.

Why would a dentist not give written instructions for aftercare after a procedure? Is there any reason not to?

Not everybody retains everything they are told at all times. People write things down, make lists, have spreadsheets of things to do.

Sure its printed on prescriptions, how many you should take a day. Should it be scrapped because people who can't remember 3 tablets per day for 7 days don't deserve to get better?

If the potential outcome of not following instructions is a dry socket, I would expect more than some verbal instruction, which has no protocol, and may vary from dentist to dentist (correct me if I'm wrong).

You are wrong.

Protocol is to provide post op instructions, they do not have to be written, the standard is verbal as they are simple, easy to understand and follow. The reason not to give written? Most adults can follow simple advice given verbally.

If you hurt your ankle, do you need written instructions to tell you to keep your weight off it? If you have a chest infection, does your GP need to give you written instructions to rest?

Even when you follow the instructions, dry socket can occur, it is unpredictable and multifactorial.

Are people really arguing that it is the Dentist’s fault the op forgot simple instructions given by a the Dentist? Has it got to this now?

fryup · 12-05-2019 3:10pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Yes people forget, so why then did you blame her? You could have just said that you forgot.

It certainly is an inconvenience, but you are done there, look for another dentist who appreciates your business. And next time, don’t blame others because you can’t remember simple instructions.

Dav010 wrote: »

But she did give them to you, you have posted this many times, you forgot them.

I’m beginning to understand her reasoning.

Dav010 wrote: »

I have great faith in adults ability to follow simple verbal instructions. To be honest, in 25 years no one has ever said to me after post op instructions “sorry I don’t understand what you mean about keeping it clean, not drinking alcohol, smoking etc” it’s pretty basic stuff, nothing to do with arrogance, more an acknowledgement of basic brain function.

How do you blame someone else, for something you forgot? Basically you are saying, how my brain works is your fault.

i've kept civil so far....but you know, i find your comments condescending, dismissive and down right insulting...i'd hate to have you as a dentist

"now mr smith your extraction is done on your way now, and don't bother me if you have any problems"

MrMusician18 · 12-05-2019 3:13pm

Dav010 wrote: »

You are wrong.

Protocol is to provide post op instructions, they do not have to be written, the standard is verbal as they are simple, easy to understand and follow. The reason not to give written? Most adults can follow simple advice given verbally.

If you hurt your ankle, do you need written instructions to tell you to keep your weight off it? If you have a chest infection, does your GP need to give you written instructions to rest?

Even when you follow the instructions, dry socket can occur, it is unpredictable and multifactorial.

Are people really arguing that it is the Dentist’s fault the op forgot simple instructions given by a the Dentist? Has it got to this now?

He didn't forget them, he never understood them.

So Yes it's the dentist's fault, because the dentist never checked if the patient understood the instruction.

fryup · 12-05-2019 3:22pm

FluffyTowel wrote: »

Sure its printed on prescriptions, how many you should take a day. Should it be scrapped because people who can't remember 3 tablets per day for 7 days don't deserve to get better?

exactly, thank you

12-05-2019 3:23pm

fryup wrote: »

"now mr smith your extraction is done on your way now, and don't bother me if you have any problems"

But you have posted that she did give you post op instructions and that you forgot them.

Eymmuroutraged Danu · 12-05-2019 3:24pm

This thread is pointless really, no? As you have only heard one version of the story and given the decision by a professional who is probably used to handling regular sensitivities by patients, the odds are very much on the side that there is more to this. Most of us are surely thinking the same. Maybe the posters's version is bang on, but I would treat it with caution.

12-05-2019 3:25pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

He didn't forget them, he never understood them.

So Yes it's the dentist's fault, because the dentist never checked if the patient understood the instruction.

I think you are now making assumptions about the op’s intelligence and ability to understand simple instructions.

fryup · 12-05-2019 3:27pm

^^^^^^^^^^^

here we go again, snide comments

but you have posted that she did give you post op instructions and that you forgot them.

yes and i forgot some of them, i'm human

so wouldn't have been better to give me a printed list, for both parties sake...its not asking too much is it??

*and above all else do i really deserve to barred for mentioning this????

12-05-2019 3:31pm

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^

here we go again, snide comments

yes and i forgot some of them, i'm human

so wouldn't have been better to give me a printed list, for both parties sake...its not asking too much is it??

So the dentist should have known you weren’t able to remember simple instructions? That is her fault? Seriously.

I doubt that is the reason for you being barred, but I’m beginning to understand why she may feel you would be better served receiving treatment elsewhere. She may well be concerned about future treatment.

fryup · 12-05-2019 3:35pm

^^^^^^^^

people forget, its a terrible human frailty

you never forgot anything in your whole life i presume

iamwhoiam · 12-05-2019 3:36pm

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^

here we go again, snide comments

yes and i forgot some of them, i'm human

so wouldn't have been better to give me a printed list, for both parties sake...its not asking too much is it??

*and above all else do i really deserve to barred for mentioning this????

Would it not have been better to say you had forgotten the instructions and let her treat you for the pain etc . Instead of laying blame on her when it was you who failed to follow her instructions
When all was settled down you could have politely made a suggestion that a hand out might be helpful for patients

I very much doubt that a dentist barrs anyone easily and for no good reason

12-05-2019 3:37pm

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^

people forget, its a terrible human frailty

you never forgot anything in your whole life i presume

Of course I have, we all have, I just don’t blame others for something I forget.

the_pen_turner · 12-05-2019 3:37pm

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^

people forget, its a terrible human frailty

you never forgot anything in your whole life i presume

do you know what i do with important info i need to remember. i write it down. i take the steps to make sure i have the info needed. you dont put the blame on someone else because you forgot

iamwhoiam · 12-05-2019 3:40pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

do you know what i do with important info i need to remember. i write it down. i take the steps to make sure i have the info needed. you dont put the blame on someone else because you forgot

Absolutely . I got instructions from an ophthalmologist lately and knew I would get confused with the timing of drops
I asked politely if I could write it down and he immediately printed it all out for me . Politeness goes a long wayb

fryup · 12-05-2019 3:42pm

Dav010 wrote: »

So the dentist should have known you weren’t able to remember simple instructions? That is her fault? Seriously.

VERY SIMPLE question to you then....

is it asking too much that a dentist gives written/printed instructions to his/her patients after a procedure like an extraction???

yes or no?

12-05-2019 3:47pm

fryup wrote: »

VERY SIMPLE question to you then....

is it asking too much that a dentist gives written/printed instructions to his/her patients after a procedure like an extraction???

yes or no?

If you ask for the instructions to be in written form, then no it is not too much to ask.

Is it too much to ask that written instructions be given after every procedure carried out in a dental surgery, yes it is.

I have two simpler question, can you follow simple instructions and would you normally blame others for your inability to remember them?

Strumms · 12-05-2019 3:52pm

Should the patient NEED to ask...not in my opinion. It’s takes seconds to procure a pre saved print off of the instructions, costs nothing.

12-05-2019 3:55pm

Strumms wrote: »

Should the patient NEED to ask...not in my opinion. It’s takes seconds to procure a pre saved print off of the instructions, costs nothing.

Yes he needs to ask if the standard protocol is verbal instructions.

Again, protocol in your case where you were sedated, is written.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 12-05-2019 3:56pm

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^

here we go again, snide comments

yes and i forgot some of them, i'm human

so wouldn't have been better to give me a printed list, for both parties sake...its not asking too much is it??

*and above all else do i really deserve to barred for mentioning this????

OP I would respectfully suggest that it was not the complaint but possibly the way it was delivered. The worlds response to us, is often a reflection of our own personalities, and this may have been the last in a list of grievances the dentist had with your behaviour.

OP you have 17 warnings, 8 infractions, 13 forum bans and 1 site ban on boards.ie over the years,this would again suggest you may have a way of communication at times that may not appear to others to be civil. ( I myself have fewer posts than you, but am on 4 years longer, and I have 1 forum ban to my name in that time as a reference)

The fact is that the dentist doesn't bar the vast majority of her patients, so you were obviously exceptional in some way. If people were unable to follow or remember post operative instructions the dentist would give out written instruction sheets as a matter of course, so again it speaks for itself that you were somewhat exceptional.

I am sure that as you were occupying the dentists surgery time with a preventable post operative complication about which you were warned, that your suggestion to the dentist as how she should do her job or change the way she practices, went down like the obvious lead balloon that it was. Dentists are people with feelings too.

As interesting as this thread is, I wonder what the point is except as an echo chamber mostly from people who have never given a post operative instruction in their life, or dealt with patients.. There is no circumstance where the OP will be taken back as a patient nor why would the OP want to be. There are plenty of dentists around the place, go to one of them.

Eymmuroutraged Danu · 12-05-2019 3:56pm

fryup wrote: »

VERY SIMPLE question to you then....

is it asking too much that a dentist gives written/printed instructions to his/her patients after a procedure like an extraction???

yes or no?

Why didn't you ask for them to write these extremely basic instructions down if you feel you have such bad memory capabilities, even after an anaesthetic. ?

What basic instructions did you feel were necessary? To what extent do the necessity of instructions and brevity of same need to be given?
I would have imagined avoiding hot drinks was pretty obvious anyway, you would have realised after a sip or two that it wasn't the best idea? Hot fluid meets sensitive body part...........natural reaction?

I don't believe an anaesthetic in a dentist would completely disable your memory for such a basic instruction. It sounds increasingly like you weren't listening to the dentist tbh.

fryup · 12-05-2019 3:57pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Is it too much to ask that written instructions be given after every procedure carried out in a dental surgery, yes it is.

alright forget about written...print them out....she must do about a dozen extractions a week, so why not hand out a printed leaflet before the patient goes home?? is that too much??

Dav010 wrote: »

I have two simpler question, can you follow simple instructions and would you normally blame others for your inability to remember them?

now you're being flippant,

no i don't blame others for forgetting things...but when it comes to medical matters i think its best all around to give a post-after care note don't you...i mean where's the harm in it...i mean what about the elderly and the like??

12-05-2019 4:01pm

fryup wrote: »

alright forget about written...print them out....she must do about a dozen extractions a week, so why not hand out a printed leaflet before the patient goes home?? is that too much??
?

Of the probably thousands she has done, how many of those would have blamed her for them forgetting the instructions? You may be unique op, perhaps that is why alarm bells were ringing.

Personally I would have thought patients attention to post op instructions is heightened after a procedure.

Elderly people are far less likely to blame others for their infirmity, I’ve never heard an elderly person blame someone for them not being able to remember something.

fryup · 12-05-2019 4:06pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Personally I would have thought patients attention to post op instructions is heightened after a procedure.

god, you're so patronizing

12-05-2019 4:12pm

fryup wrote: »

god, you're so patronizing

It’s ok, you won’t remember me in a few minutes ðŸ€ª

martingriff · 12-05-2019 4:53pm

Over the last number of years I have had a few dental procedures. 2 abyss and implant operation. These happened with 3 different dentists. Left other dentists due to moving for work and the other closing. Of these 3 dentists only 1 by current gave me written instructions and that was due to antibiotics.

If I needed them written/printed I would ask is not hard to do. If I forgot I would not blame anyone and would not expect them as course to be printed and was surprised at them written down. For any stuff done in a dentist crown filling and the above 3 no hot drinks and no smoking was 1 and 2

The dentist should have told outright I do not want you as a patient anymore. I say that post op appointment was more conversational then the OP is saying

Dianthus · 12-05-2019 5:17pm

These famous instructions

It's really no different from any healing cut/wound/scab anywhere else on your body.
You take it easy, don't poke it, prod it, disturb it, dissolve it, puff smoke on it. Let nature take its course& it'll heal. It really is that basic.
Any confusion should have been addressed via a quick 2 min chat at reception/phonecall to the practice/Google search.
Now after almost 150 posts on a single query, can we all call it a day& enjoy the sunshine/last few hours of the weekend

FluffyTowel · 12-05-2019 5:18pm

Dav010 wrote: »

You are wrong.

Protocol is to provide post op instructions, they do not have to be written, the standard is verbal as they are simple, easy to understand and follow. The reason not to give written? Most adults can follow simple advice given verbally.

If you hurt your ankle, do you need written instructions to tell you to keep your weight off it? If you have a chest infection, does your GP need to give you written instructions to rest?

Even when you follow the instructions, dry socket can occur, it is unpredictable and multifactorial.

Are people really arguing that it is the Dentist’s fault the op forgot simple instructions given by a the Dentist? Has it got to this now?

Ok . So the standard of verbal instructions do not vary from dentist to dentist. Good to know.

If I hurt my ankle, I would be sensible enough not to put too much weight on it, but would not know additional postcare information, such as some stretches (depending on the injury, but I'm not the expert). But for how long should I keep the weight off? Might feel fine, but then I go and banjax it again. Should I take painkillers. Which ones. For how long. When should I seek additional treatment if the pain persists.

Why not have a standard that would ensure you have documentation of the advice given, and the patient has written advice if they need it?

Wabbit Ears · 12-05-2019 6:15pm

fryup wrote:

but why should i apologise if i did nothing wrong? thats just ludicrous

I've just read this thread and your responses.

You made an offhand Facebook type bitchy comment to a person in real life and hurt their feelings to the extent they blacklisted you. You caused this scenario. You caused this scenario. One more time. You caused this scenario.

The dentist didnt handle it well but you caused this scenario by not being kind and thoughtful with the way you said what you said.

You got blacklisted because of what you said.

You need to apologize for what you said.

It was you. You caused this.

Has it sunk in yet?

Or are you still gonna dig your heals in and hate on the dentist for reacting badly to what you said?

Big_G · 12-05-2019 6:34pm

Nobody has addressed the real issue here which is why the dentist might be upset with you OP.

It is fairly useless to try and apportion blame for dry socket. Maybe you perceived that the dentist was trying to blame you for a poor outcome when suggesting some do's and don'ts after treatment for dry socket. The thing is, the list of post op instructions for dry socket treatment might be different than those for post extraction (at least they were in my practice).

Then the dentist got upset because essentially you did blame them for the poor outcome when you suggested that they had fallen short of their responsibility when delivering instructions after the extraction. I can tell you, I would be very unhappy with this in my practice. There was I time when I would have finished the appointment and then had a conversation with you outlining the boundaries of the professional relationship and explaining that when trust breaks down, no future treatment can reasonably be provided.

I think that is what has happened here - trust has broken down. How it was handled after the conversation is where I differ with the dentist (bearing in mind the possibility of two different sides to OP's story). I probably would have written a letter explaining the breakdown in trust and dismiss you as a patient. Or would have chalked it up to stress and forgiven the comment. I can't dismiss the possibility of form here because in my experience patients who get confrontational have a history of it and for those patients I move to dismiss.

So stop trying to blame someone (including yourself) for dry socket. Sometimes it happens, could have been something you did or not, it certainly wasn't something the dentist did or didn't do, even if you followed instructions to the letter you still may have ended up the same way. Dry socket is sometimes experienced more by some patients than others. As far as I know the dental literature still hasn't reached a consensus on what specifically causes it in each case. So chalk it down to bad luck.

As far as making a complaint - it seems that the purpose of that would be vindictiveness. You don't seem to be concerned about the welfare of other patients attending the practice. What do you want to happen? Do you think the practice fell short in their duty of care? If so, will a complaint mean that you now can become a patient again in the practice, or that it will fix your negative past experience? I'm just not seeing the benefit of a complaint from your point of view. Regardless, if you write to the dental council and haven't spoken to the dentist first, they will reject your complaint as far as I know. There is also the dental complaints resolution service which is an independent non-binding arbitration service for dental complaints that you could also try if you really felt the need. If it were me I would be thinking, do I really need this aggravation in my life? It's a lot of energy wasted in my view but you are entitled to do so if you feel the need, the Dental Council is there to advocate for patients.

fryup · 12-05-2019 9:54pm

Dav010 wrote: »

It’s ok, you won’t remember me in a few minutes &#55356;&#56362;

with any luck, :cool:

helimachoptor · 13-05-2019 9:20am

this one is going around in circles.

Blacklisted by a Dentist

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