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Going solar without grant

2»

Comments

  • #52
    Mr Q
    Registered Users Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭Mr Q


    Based on the news this morning it looks like the FIT is coming. Is there any chance this will be for new connections of solar only? Don't want to connect and then be refused this.


  • #53
    phester28
    Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭phester28


    kellxor.1337 wrote: »
    Will this ever change in Ireland realistically ?


    My wife and I just received planning permission ( that we didn't think we would get ) but the house is kinda on hold now as we are expecting our 1st child in October.

    I still need to do some homework on the renewable's and the heating etc as instructed by the wife.

    Will be building a north facing house ( 160 Sq M )
    Roof will be an East/West slope so was hoping to install solar PV and use this to power the Heat Pump ( Air to water ) and the rest of electrical needs ( that i can scrounge out of the panels ). In my foolishness, I assumed batteries to store what it generated would be cheap if purchased with the panels and any additional equipment needed. I have heard of some crazy prices from installers so i was looking at a UK website to purchase from that offer what appears to be great prices

    e.g -
    1 row of 4 – Portrait

    4 x Perlight PLM 320M-60 – 320w Mono (Black Frame/White Backsheet) – 1640 x 992 x 35mm

    1 x Growatt 1500S Mini – Single Tracker – Single Phase Inverter

    2 x AC Isolators

    2 x DC Isolators

    1 x Single Phase Generation Meter

    50m x 4mm Black PV Cable

    2 x Pairs – MC4 Connectors

    1 x Set – Solar Warning Labels

    4 x Rail – 2.1m – Black

    10 x Roof Hook – Concrete Tiles (please specify if different roof hooks are required)

    2 x Rail Splice

    6 x Mid Clamp (35mm – Black)

    4 x End Clamp (35mm – Black)

    4 x Rail End Cap – Black

    Perlight Solar PV modules comply with: IEC61730 and ISO09001 and ISO14000 certified factory
    Twenty five year warranty on power output. Twelve year manufacturing guarantee.

    Twenty year warranty on mounting system

    Ten year warranty on Growatt Inverters


    Approx €1,150 + vat
    Assuming i will need 2 sets, €2,300 + Vat seems like a bargain ( Naive i know ) I'd say i could probably get somebody reputable near where i live to install for 1000-1500

    I think you'll find better value from a kit perspective on a wholesale basis on one of the main wholesale solar companies in Ireland. This wholesaler supplies uses mainly solis inverters and prices are online


  • #54
    quentingargan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭quentingargan


    Mr Q wrote: »
    Based on the news this morning it looks like the FIT is coming. Is there any chance this will be for new connections of solar only? Don't want to connect and then be refused this.
    I don't see how they could refuse this to existing connections. As far as I know, it is due to become mandatory under the EU RE Directive anyhow.


  • #55
    Mr Q
    Registered Users Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭Mr Q


    quentingargan wrote: »
    I don't see how they could refuse this to existing connections. As far as I know, it is due to become mandatory under the EU RE Directive anyhow.

    I hope you're right but I wouldn't rule it out. If they could get away with it they will consider it.


  • #56
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,268 ✭✭✭threeball


    unkel wrote: »
    A roofer putting up 10 panels in a straight forward configuration should cost you no more than €250 in labour. An electrician mounting your inverter and connecting it to the grid should cost no more than €200 in labour. Get all the parts needed at good prices and you are up and running for less money than a subsidised (grant) system with overinflated prices, BER certs, other unnecessary bits, etc.

    If you are going to stay in your home for the next 15+ years, you will save money with this. Possibly quite a lot of money if prices of electricity go up, if we will get a feed in tariff, if prices of batteries that you might add will come down, etc. All these ifs are quite likely to happen. And then there is of course the feeling good about having zero emissions renewables. The opposite of having a cancer causing diesel car.

    I'd have an issue with your pricing if I'm honest.
    Who's going to work for the rates you quote there. I don't think you'd get anyone but the local bodger. €250 for a days work for 2 roofers because it's a two man job or else it's one man for two days. That's €125 per day each to a self employed person paying insurance, van, tax to government, no social safety net and no holiday pay. I think people in this country have a very unrealistic view of what the cost of doing something is. Most including myself would just about be happy with €125 take home for a day yet expect someone self employed to work for the same? I know plenty of lads who work for themselves who reckon if they don't get closer to €400 per day they'd be better off on the dole and I can see why.


  • #57
    randombar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭randombar


    Mr Q wrote: »
    Based on the news this morning it looks like the FIT is coming. Is there any chance this will be for new connections of solar only? Don't want to connect and then be refused this.

    Any link to that news?


  • #58
    Mr Q
    Registered Users Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭Mr Q


    GaryCocs wrote: »
    Any link to that news?

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/green-light-to-sell-solar-electricity-back-to-grid-dvwf0jbt7


  • #59
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,719 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    threeball wrote: »
    I'd have an issue with your pricing if I'm honest.
    Who's going to work for the rates you quote there. I don't think you'd get anyone but the local bodger. €250 for a days work for 2 roofers

    I might have been confusing you with my numbers, apologies for that. I paid €350 for a roofer and his apprentice for not much more than half a days work. My install was complex

    For a straight fit of a 10 panel system a roofer and his apprentice should take about 2.5-3 hours. I think it is reasonable to expect to pay no more than €250 for that

    My ads on adverts.ie

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



  • #60
    funnyname
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭funnyname


    Mr Q wrote: »
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/green-light-to-sell-solar-electricity-back-to-grid-dvwf0jbt7

    So will the grant stay when the FIT is introduced?


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  • #61
    quentingargan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭quentingargan


    funnyname wrote: »
    So will the grant stay when the FIT is introduced?
    The grant is up for review every 6 months. That may mean that if other factors come into play to improve viability, it might be reduced.

    If you are thinking of doing this, I think the early adopters might win out here- subsidised installation and an export tariff.

    That said, with batteries etc., the scheme is mainly geared to maximise self-consumption. A household with 4kw PV and batteries and someone at home all day long will probably only export 1/4 of their production. The income at SEM-O prices would be €60 to €80 a year.


  • #62
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,268 ✭✭✭threeball


    unkel wrote: »
    I might have been confusing you with my numbers, apologies for that. I paid €350 for a roofer and his apprentice for not much more than half a days work. My install was complex

    For a straight fit of a 10 panel system a roofer and his apprentice should take about 2.5-3 hours. I think it is reasonable to expect to pay no more than €250 for that

    Did you provide the scaffold or did they? Who does the connection of the panels for the electrician to connect on to? Fair play if you got it for that but I doubt many would work for that. His day is gone regardless, hardly going to job number two at half 2 in the day.

    Just playing devils advocate here and trying to inject some realism into pricing as I doubt very many people will work for the rates you expect to pay. Was that cash or vat invoiced?


  • #63
    rolion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    threeball wrote: »
    Did you provide the scaffold or did they? Who does the connection of the panels for the electrician to connect on to? Fair play if you got it for that but I doubt many would work for that. His day is gone regardless, hardly going to job number two at half 2 in the day.

    Just playing devils advocate here and trying to inject some realism into pricing as I doubt very many people will work for the rates you expect to pay. Was that cash or vat invoiced?

    I will love to see a roofer charging those money....and for his apprentice.
    I will install 10 panels naked on the roof if is "possible" to do it in 2.5 hours.

    Get few quotes around,ask for past work recomendations.
    Some of the handyman thinks is a very easy job but they will need to visualise the bracket and the drilling / positioning of that unit in accordance with the installer / supplier type of. Not hard but needs a bit of thinking... and hard to get going,once you started,easy repeatitive tasks.

    Is your roof and tiles and home.
    If a 2.5h job will nick one of the slates or brake a joist ,it will cost you more in time lost by your family(working time = money OR qood quality time=cant put a value) and damage to your house possible costing ten times fold and lots of arguments with the wife.

    I did DIY with a roofer,up there on the house,it cost me more than quoted above but i took all the associated risks.
    We did over three days , brackets,supports and 7 panels. As the weather just got bad when we were up the roof, it was too dangerous to keep working.
    We broke a joist, dunno how, but i found it after.
    Just reinforced it from inside and all ok now.
    Also,some of the tiles just didnt want to work with the metal bracket,dunno why,probable left overs from "paddys work" done 20 years ago.So,run the electrical cable and cut it and adjust it up there.

    Lots of fun and satisfaction overall.
    Wish you good luck...


  • #64
    Effects
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    unkel wrote: »
    Did you not follow the case last year when a lady who had (neatly) plastered the full road facing side of her roof with PV? She was forced to take it down (after appeal)

    Linky

    Can't find any photos apart from google earth. It's not on Streetview though.
    It doesn't look too bad. I've seen worse things built onto houses!
    Was she running a battery system as well?


  • #65
    Effects
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    unkel wrote: »
    I would have targets:
    electrician €200

    Would you get a sparks that cheap these days?

    I'm sure a lot of them also wouldn't be happy doing the connections end of things without knowing how the cables were installed, by doing it themselves.


  • #66
    rolion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    Effects wrote: »
    Would you get a sparks that cheap these days?

    I'm sure a lot of them also wouldn't be happy doing the connections end of things without knowing how the cables were installed, by doing it themselves.

    Good Qs !
    Some people loves bargaining to the deep end when needs work to be done for him/her.
    But pushes as high possible when demand payment for his/her work.

    You could have it for a so low amount if a friend or relative AND if you can carry most of the dirty work yourself. BUT,well pointed, most of them doesnt like doing and certifying work if not started / finished by them.I have a friend ,good one, but he refused to sign and certify my EV charger cabling unless he was there to run it himslef,assisted by me.


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  • #67
    Effects
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    It makes sense as when they certify it they take full responsibility for it.

    Why did you need the charger cabling certified? For a grant or just to do things properly/by the book?

    Kind of dreading when ours gets done. Cabling is there but the electrician didn't install the right fuse board so it's crowded for space.


  • #68
    rolion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    @effects

    SEAI gives a grant for EV chargers installed at home.
    Electrician RECI needs to give a certificate otherwise you will not receive an email like below ! ;)

    482515.jpg


  • #69
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,268 ✭✭✭threeball


    rolion wrote: »
    I will love to see a roofer charging those money....and for his apprentice.
    I will install 10 panels naked on the roof if is "possible" to do it in 2.5 hours.

    Get few quotes around,ask for past work recomendations.
    Some of the handyman thinks is a very easy job but they will need to visualise the bracket and the drilling / positioning of that unit in accordance with the installer / supplier type of. Not hard but needs a bit of thinking... and hard to get going,once you started,easy repeatitive tasks.

    Is your roof and tiles and home.
    If a 2.5h job will nick one of the slates or brake a joist ,it will cost you more in time lost by your family(working time = money OR qood quality time=cant put a value) and damage to your house possible costing ten times fold and lots of arguments with the wife.

    I did DIY with a roofer,up there on the house,it cost me more than quoted above but i took all the associated risks.
    We did over three days , brackets,supports and 7 panels. As the weather just got bad when we were up the roof, it was too dangerous to keep working.
    We broke a joist, dunno how, but i found it after.
    Just reinforced it from inside and all ok now.
    Also,some of the tiles just didnt want to work with the metal bracket,dunno why,probable left overs from "paddys work" done 20 years ago.So,run the electrical cable and cut it and adjust it up there.

    Lots of fun and satisfaction overall.
    Wish you good luck...

    Is this aimed at me?


  • #70
    Effects
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    rolion wrote: »
    @effects
    SEAI gives a grant for EV chargers installed at home.
    Electrician RECI needs to give a certificate otherwise you will not receive an email like below ! ;)

    How much does it end up costing for the charge point with the grant?

    I'm leaning towards buying and connecting my own, as I've already allowed for the cabling end.

    I'm also thinking about just charging granny style during the day, to take advantage of my PV panels output at peak times.


  • #71
    rolion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    Effects wrote: »
    How much does it end up costing for the charge point with the grant?

    I'm leaning towards buying and connecting my own, as I've already allowed for the cabling end.

    I'm also thinking about just charging granny style during the day, to take advantage of my PV panels output at peak times.

    There is alot of feedback and recomandations H E R E,just take a nice cup of coffee and read through them.

    i have PVs ,an EV and best EV charger on the market for what i need,a year ago.

    My personal experience - and for which i got blamed and shouted and thrown under the car - i never had the possibility of charging the car from the PVs... first the car is not at home when output at maxim daytime and then when i had it connected and setup to use lower charging current,it took too long and a small charge, i end-up paying more for that charge day time than night time rates.

    I guess need a 5KW installed power and good charger that gives 3.3KW power back to the car. Ideal conditions for the PVs output, EV smart charger,type of car,owner working style... all these answers and more you can find on that topic ,as above. Take with your own opinion and do the best you can afford "today" as tomorrow is going to be too old...


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  • #72
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,719 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    If your EV isn't at home most days Rolion, a smart charger like a Zappi is a waste of money. Just charge it at the night rate and hope for a FIT or install a cheap big home attached battery

    It only makes (some) sense to install a Zappi if you are getting the €600 grant and / or if your car is at home during the day a lot...

    My ads on adverts.ie

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



  • #73
    Mr Q
    Registered Users Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭Mr Q


    Does anyone know if you can oversize strings in Ireland like is common in certain parts of Australia. They would have a 5kw limit on the connection they can make so obviously use a 5 kw inverter. But then connect 6kw or more in panels.

    The ESB form conditions only mention 25 amps (5.75kw) so i assume once the inverter is below this you could in theory have more panels for more generation in the poorer months.

    It would not damage the inverter, just clip some of the excess power on the really good days. SMA even recommend you oversize the strings on their inverters.


  • #74
    quentingargan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭quentingargan


    Mr Q wrote: »
    Does anyone know if you can oversize strings in Ireland like is common in certain parts of Australia. They would have a 5kw limit on the connection they can make so obviously use a 5 kw inverter. But then connect 6kw or more in panels.

    The ESB form conditions only mention 25 amps (5.75kw) so i assume once the inverter is below this you could in theory have more panels for more generation in the poorer months.

    It would not damage the inverter, just clip some of the excess power on the really good days. SMA even recommend you oversize the strings on their inverters.

    Yes - ESB doesn't care what is on the DC side of the inverter. In theory you can oversize your solar array and the production will flat-line at 6kw or whatever the AC rating of the inverter is.

    BUT - check the data sheet for your inverter and make sure you respect the maximum DC input for the inverter as a whole as well as for each MPPT. For example, a 5kw inverter may allow 4kw per MPPT, or a total of 6kw. You may have to ask the manufacturer about exceptions. For example, east-west will never be at full capacity on both strings.


  • #75
    Mr Q
    Registered Users Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭Mr Q


    quentingargan wrote: »
    Yes - ESB doesn't care what is on the DC side of the inverter. In theory you can oversize your solar array and the production will flat-line at 6kw or whatever the AC rating of the inverter is.

    BUT - check the data sheet for your inverter and make sure you respect the maximum DC input for the inverter as a whole as well as for each MPPT. For example, a 5kw inverter may allow 4kw per MPPT, or a total of 6kw. You may have to ask the manufacturer about exceptions. For example, east-west will never be at full capacity on both strings.

    Thanks for that Quentin. I have checked some of the solar string calculators and find them very useful for checking the max amps, volts etc. I just wasn't sure of the ESBs view.


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