Management Company Installed Gates

andekwarhola · 11-12-2019 1:13pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

To go to the expense of putting in gates and a access system, they must have a serious arrears problem. It was probably that or go bankrupt.

And you'll still probably get people threatening solicitors rather than getting their around the concept of a funded OMC for which they willingly signed up.

Having never been in an OMC outside of Ireland, I'm unsure if the utter and complete inability of many Irish property owners to comprehend the simple fact that the development into which they bought is completely maintained, serviced and insured from what they put in the pot and that they are all legally liable to do so under pain of insolvency and no insurance cover.

Raconteuse · 11-12-2019 1:22pm

Oh the barstool lawyers again. Of course it's not illegal - no sympathy for people who won't pay their management fees. And it is won't, not can't. You've a year to pay them. No excuse. I pay in a bit every few weeks.

And the Joe Duffy show? Lol. People need to stop thinking that this will scare a company, especially when the company is not in the wrong. They also don't just let anyone on air. Salacious as the show may be, they still do their research. Still give the other side right of reply. Still bear in mind defamation.

People not paying their fees affects everyone else. It's sh1t. The same system was brought in where i used to live. And if you keep your phone charged it won't die. Personal responsibility is becoming a non starter in this country.

And as for the comment about foreigners, the foreigners are the best behaved where I live. If there's an inconsiderate gimp, it's an Irish person. I'd love if that wasn't what I observed but unfortunately it is.

steinbock123 · 11-12-2019 1:35pm

I have an apartment in a small development. We had a phone number to dial to open the vehicle gates. There was a side gate, unlocked, for pedestrian access. The management company were blue in the face trying to get a certain few dodgers to pay their annual fees. So they changed the system - I now have to nominate the number(s) i will call from when opening the gate. The gate won't open if I dial the number from a random phone, it must be registered.
So our fee dodging neighbours couldn't get in with their cars and had to park down the road on the street, or, in the case of one particular obnoxious c**t, just outside, half blocking the gate.
Needless to say, they all soon tired of this, trekking in with their shopping etc. in the wind and rain, and have all paid up now.
Problem solved.
So I , having always paid the management fees on time, think this is an excellent idea and highly recommend gates on a development.

andekwarhola · 11-12-2019 1:36pm

Dav010 wrote: »

As anyone who owns a property in a gated development will know, they are expensive bits of kit, to buy and maintain. A board of MC is not going to make a unilateral decision to spend thousands without first discussing it at AGM.

This.

There are some unilateral decisions an OMC might have to make. In my experience, an OMC introduced clamping and speed ramps without bringing it to AGM because of fee arrears issues and dangerous driving respectively and both were relatively inexpensive.

A gated access system would be costly and require a lot of planning though.

andekwarhola · 11-12-2019 1:39pm

Raconteuse wrote: »

Oh the barstool lawyers again. Of course it's not illegal - no sympathy for people who won't pay their management fees. And it is won't, not can't. You've a year to pay them. No excuse. I pay in a bit every few weeks.

And the Joe Duffy show? Lol. People need to stop thinking that this will scare a company, especially when the company is not in the wrong. They also don't just let anyone on air. Salacious as the show may be, they still do their research. Still give the other side right of reply. Still bear in mind defamation.

People not paying their fees affects everyone else. It's sh1t. The same system was brought in where i used to live. And if you keep your phone charged it won't die. Personal responsibility is becoming a non starter in this country.

And as for the comment about foreigners, the foreigners are the best behaved where I live. If there's an inconsiderate gimp, it's an Irish person. I'd love if that wasn't what I observed but unfortunately it is.

Should add to this valid post that solicitors or Joe Duffy won't give a fcuk or have a leg to stand on. You agreed legally to pay fees when you bought a property and refusing to pay them simply shifts the onus on to other owners to cover the shortfall and ultimately can cause the development to be insolvent and unable to be insured.

In my experience, everybody from the council to legal industry have very little interest in what goes on in a managed development as it's basically a private company that you agreed to join and to abide by the rules.

andekwarhola · 11-12-2019 1:43pm

loyatemu wrote: »

I'm not a lawyer, but I'd be surprised if a mgmt company could completely deny someone access to their own apartment. You can put what you like in a lease, it doesn't change the law or the constitution.

I assume all gated development have a entrance for pedestrian access . You just can't bring your car in without opening the gate.

So really, I CAN'T ACCESS MY APARTMENT JOE WAHHH generally means I can't drive my car in the gate and park in my spot, all of which are funded entirely by the service fees that I agreed to but won't pay.

A small difference.

zell12 · 11-12-2019 1:46pm

loyatemu · 11-12-2019 1:55pm

andekwarhola wrote: »

I assume all gated development have a entrance for pedestrian access . You just can't bring your car in without opening the gate.

So really, I CAN'T ACCESS MY APARTMENT JOE WAHHH generally means I can't drive my car in the gate and park in my spot, all of which are funded entirely by the service fees that I agreed to but won't pay.

A small difference.

need clarification from the OP - if it's just the carpark she can't access, that's a fairly standard OMC tactic.

if they're blocking her from accessing her apartment entirely, regardless of the various opinions expressed above, I'd still be surprised if that would stand up to any legal scrutiny, otherwise why aren't OMCs doing it all the time?

andekwarhola · 11-12-2019 2:05pm

loyatemu wrote: »

need clarification from the OP - if it's just the carpark she can't access, that's a fairly standard OMC tactic.

if they're blocking her from accessing her apartment entirely, regardless of the various opinions expressed above, I'd still be surprised if that would stand up to any legal scrutiny, otherwise why aren't OMCs doing it all the time?

Would be amazed if any OMC is actually blocking a resident from their home.

Sure the OP can clarify although it's proving quite hard to get basic facts so far.

elperello · 11-12-2019 2:41pm

andekwarhola wrote: »

Would be amazed if any OMC is actually blocking a resident from their home.

Sure the OP can clarify although it's proving quite hard to get basic facts so far.

As it's the case that a landlord can't block someone from entering a rented place even if they don't pay the rent I'd say you are right.

It's the OP's home.

Lantus · 11-12-2019 5:20pm

Amirani wrote: »

This is incorrect and not how leasehold ownership works. You shouldn't make categorical statements like this when you don't have an understanding of property law.

The OP does own the apartment (the buildings). They don't own the land on which it's built, and thus are subject to paying ground rent on it.

An apartment owner would very rarely if ever own any part of the building structure. Their ownership generally extends to the inside layer of plasterboard and anything within that boundary and often the window and frame. The structural floor, roof and walls and all services and systems outside including corridors, stairwells, lifts, main doors, fire systems and all surrounding land is owned by the omc.

Aoife_Byrne · 11-12-2019 7:02pm

ted1 wrote: »

Did they obtain planning permission for the gate ?

I didnt see any signs up? So maybe not

Darc19 · 11-12-2019 8:23pm

Aoife_Byrne wrote: »

I didnt see any signs up? So maybe not

Interesting that you are not answering other queries.

Can you confirm that it is the car parking you cannot access and that there is no issue with accessing the apartment as a pedestrian?

Aoife_Byrne · 11-12-2019 8:32pm

Darc19 wrote: »

Interesting that you are not answering other queries.

Can you confirm that it is the car parking you cannot access and that there is no issue with accessing the apartment as a pedestrian?

I have a job, and other things to do, I'm not able 24/7.

I will not be able to access car park, bins or 2 pedestrian entrances (which is all there is) these are the only ways to access my apartment

RiseToMe · 11-12-2019 8:33pm

Aoife_Byrne wrote: »

I have a job, and other things to do, I'm not able 24/7.

I will not be able to access car park, bins or 2 pedestrian entrances (which is all there is) these are the only ways to access my apartment

What kinda set up is on the pedestrian gate that you now have no access to?

Aoife_Byrne · 11-12-2019 8:34pm

ShaneODub wrote: »

Are they blocking all access routes, or just one/some of the entrances?

All access routes

andekwarhola · 11-12-2019 8:35pm

Best just to pay your fees then I guess.

Aoife_Byrne · 11-12-2019 8:36pm

andekwarhola wrote: »

Should add to this valid post that solicitors or Joe Duffy won't give a fcuk or have a leg to stand on. You agreed legally to pay fees when you bought a property and refusing to pay them simply shifts the onus on to other owners to cover the shortfall and ultimately can cause the development to be insolvent and unable to be insured.

In my experience, everybody from the council to legal industry have very little interest in what goes on in a managed development as it's basically a private company that you agreed to join and to abide by the rules.

I am not refusing to pay.. I fell behind due to unforeseen circumstances ... Iv been emailing and calling management company since Monday to try sort a payment plan, I have offered more money and my calls are not being returned... What do I do??

STB. · 11-12-2019 8:37pm

Aoife_Byrne wrote: »

I have a job, and other things to do, I'm not able 24/7.

I will not be able to access car park, bins or 2 pedestrian entrances (which is all there is) these are the only ways to access my apartment

If you have a job, then you are well able to pay the service charges like the other owners. It's so the place and your property aren't run down and devalued to nothing.

Bins and car parking I fully understand. Its to get people who dont give a toss about paying their obligated service charges to enagage with them.

I would find it hard to believe they have blocked off the pedestrian entrances, as that would be a fire and/or security hazard.

Aoife_Byrne · 11-12-2019 8:38pm

andekwarhola wrote: »

I assume all gated development have a entrance for pedestrian access . You just can't bring your car in without opening the gate.

So really, I CAN'T ACCESS MY APARTMENT JOE WAHHH generally means I can't drive my car in the gate and park in my spot, all of which are funded entirely by the service fees that I agreed to but won't pay.

A small difference.

Totally wrong assumptions

Aoife_Byrne · 11-12-2019 8:39pm

loyatemu wrote: »

need clarification from the OP - if it's just the carpark she can't access, that's a fairly standard OMC tactic.

if they're blocking her from accessing her apartment entirely, regardless of the various opinions expressed above, I'd still be surprised if that would stand up to any legal scrutiny, otherwise why aren't OMCs doing it all the time?

I will be blocked from my apartment

Addle · 11-12-2019 8:41pm

Aoife_Byrne wrote: »

I will be blocked from my apartment

Future tense?

Aoife_Byrne · 11-12-2019 8:50pm

Addle wrote: »

Future tense?

From tomorrow

c montgomery · 11-12-2019 9:02pm

I'm a director of a management company.

We had an issue with outside people coming to our development to dump rubbish in communal bins. We put a secure gate at the bin entrance so they started dumping the rubbish in front of the gate or over the gate.

We finally installed gates to the complex with a phone system where only pre approved phone numbers could open the gates. This sorted the issue of illegal dumping but also made the development more secure.

We had to go through a long enough process to install the gates due to the cost/complexity and were fully engaged with all owners . I don't see how any management company could install gates like this as described by the OP.

STB. · 11-12-2019 9:03pm

Aoife_Byrne wrote: »

I am not refusing to pay.. I fell behind due to unforeseen circumstances ... Iv been emailing and calling management company since Monday to try sort a payment plan, I have offered more money and my calls are not being returned... What do I do??

Aoife_Byrne wrote: »

From tomorrow

So it took the management company to close access points to the complex to get you to engage with them and now you are expecting McDonald's like customer service and access! You aren't going to get much sympathy, Aoife.

The best advice is get a payment plan agreed. Its a tactic that they have obviously felt they have had to resort to get everyone paying their fair and agreed share. Its usually only implemented when people run up massive service debts that the development cannot maintain itself. Otherwise you are going to be incovenienced waiting around for others to let you in (although I am not firmly convinced its legal).

Marcusm · 11-12-2019 9:20pm

Mike3549 wrote: »

Not really, only common area, they didnt change your locks.

Edit: you know you dont own the property, only a lease

The lease will contain a right of way over the common areas and it will not be subject to fees being paid. I think forfeiture of the lease should be sought rather than these manoeuvres which ultimately involve additional capital cost and may be challenged (expensively) in court.

Marcusm · 11-12-2019 9:23pm

Lantus wrote: »

Most standard contract leases will specify that both use and right of access to a common area is dependant and contingent on payment of fees. A section of common area usually has to be accessed and used before the apartment owners own front door is reached.

It's not used enough and there is a ticking time bomb of under investment in managed apartment blocks which is yet to hit when major repairs to lifts, roofs and other big building elements hit. You can bet good money that the first to complain the omc didn't do enough are the cohort who didn't pay.

Such clauses would be unacceptable to lenders so I would be surprised if they were at all common.

Marcusm · 11-12-2019 9:29pm

andekwarhola wrote: »

And you'll still probably get people threatening solicitors rather than getting their around the concept of a funded OMC for which they willingly signed up.

Having never been in an OMC outside of Ireland, I'm unsure if the utter and complete inability of many Irish property owners to comprehend the simple fact that the development into which they bought is completely maintained, serviced and insured from what they put in the pot and that they are all legally liable to do so under pain of insolvency and no insurance cover.

Trust me it’s not limited to Ireland. In a London development I lived in we had multiple tribunal cases against the OMC by groups of residents. One of them involved nine days of oral hearings before being adjourned for settlement talks. Ultimately the OMC had to back down as it had acted in a high handed manner and failed to operate within the law. As a result £80k of Mgt fees had to be written off and £200k of legal fees paid. Those were borne by the 40% or apartment owners who had participated in the freehold purchase. It taught me that care is often not exercised by the managing agents (the supposed professionals) which can result in serious costs being borne by a portion of residents.

Marcusm · 11-12-2019 9:30pm

c montgomery wrote: »

I'm a director of a management company.

We had an issue with outside people coming to our development to dump rubbish in communal bins. We put a secure gate at the bin entrance so they started dumping the rubbish in front of the gate or over the gate.

We finally installed gates to the complex with a phone system where only pre approved phone numbers could open the gates. This sorted the issue of illegal dumping but also made the development more secure.

We had to go through a long enough process to install the gates due to the cost/complexity and were fully engaged with all owners . I don't see how any management company could install gates like this as described by the OP.

This I am believe; hard to see how it would not involve planning permission as well.

Aoife_Byrne · 11-12-2019 10:05pm

STB. wrote: »

If you have a job, then you are well able to pay the service charges like the other owners. It's so the place and your property aren't run down and devalued to nothing.

Bins and car parking I fully understand. Its to get people who dont give a toss about paying their obligated service charges to enagage with them.

I would find it hard to believe they have blocked off the pedestrian entrances, as that would be a fire and/or security hazard.

How do u know I'm well able???

Management Company Installed Gates

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