Management Company Installed Gates

andekwarhola

I'm a director too. We'd never turn down an offer from a resident to arrange staged payment of arrears unless the offer was so small that it wouldn't actually shift the debt after factoring ongoing fees.

I would have thought most OMCs would be understanding of regular payers that fall into temporary hard times. We certainly would. The ones that usually get the hard line are the serial non-payers.

I'd hazard a guess that there much be similarly serious financial issues in your development to have brought around these circumstances.

Dav010

andekwarhola wrote: »

I'm a director too. We'd never turn down an offer from a resident to arrange staged payment of arrears unless the offer was so small that it wouldn't actually shift the debt after factoring ongoing fees.

I would have thought most OMCs would be understanding of regular payers that fall in temporary hard times. We certainly would. The ones that usually get the hard line are serial non-payers.

Likewise, when I was on the board of Directors, we were more than happy to facilitate staged payments.

The op is taking flack here for not paying the sub, there is a difference between can’t and won’t. If the op is paying in instalments with the agreement of course he MC, there really should not be any criticism directed at the op.

Having said that, it is difficult to imagine a scenario where entrance to your property is prevented in totality by he new gates, I’m not a legal eagle but there would surely be legal consequences for the MC if they did that. I suspect op that you may not have all the facts relating to the new system, the info you have given does not seem complete.

As I said earlier, the gates didn’t arrive overnight, the decision would be long in the making, you said yourself it was as mentioned a number of times at AGMs. I suspect your entry will be limited to pedestrian gates until some arrangement can be made. The fact that the new system isn’t yet in function suggests they have given owners a period to pay subs before access through the new gates is restricted. Talk to them and pay, if you can.

I see another post above about planning, if the gates are less than 2m in height, which most are, no planning is necessary.

Caranica

Dav010 wrote: »

I see another post above about planning, if the gates are less than 2m in height, which most are, no planning is necessary.

Not necessarily true. Our original planning permission specifically excludes erecting gates, if we wanted to do so we would need pp. In my area it's council policy to refuse to create gated communities

Dav010

Caranica wrote: »

Not necessarily true. Our original planning permission specifically excludes erecting gates, if we wanted to do so we would need pp. In my area it's council policy to refuse to create gated communities

Which council area does that? I’ve checked loads of planning sites, coco sites etc, all say that gates can be placed up to 2m in height without need to apply for planning. Dublin tends to be among the most stringent, they allow gates up to 2m

https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/FileDownLoad,1586,en.pdf

Caranica

Fingal

jd

Caranica wrote: »

Fingal

Yup, Fingal have a definite policy on gated communities. We had a problem with outsiders using resident's parking spaces, and besides other practical difficulties, it was one reason why the possibility of using gates/barriers was not pursued

elperello

Caranica wrote: »

Fingal

Is that for apartments or estates?

jd

elperello wrote: »

Is that for apartments or estates?

https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/draft-fingal-development-plan-2017-%E2%80%93-2023-stage-2/chapter/chapter-12-development

Gated Communities

Gated communities are communities or developments in which access to the public is not readily available due to the erection of different types of physical barriers. Gated communities serve to exclude and divide communities and do not support the development of a permeable, connected and linked urban area.

1Objective DMS32
Prohibit proposals that would create a gated community for any new residential developments.

elperello

jd wrote: »

https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/draft-fingal-development-plan-2017-%E2%80%93-2023-stage-2/chapter/chapter-12-development

Sounds like they are referring to estates there which do have public areas.
Apartment complexes don't and the public have no business entering them.

Worth clarifying.
If they refused PP based on that an appeal to ABP could be worthwhile.

Caranica

elperello wrote: »

Sounds like they are referring to estates there which do have public areas.
Apartment complexes don't and the public have no business entering them.

Worth clarifying.
If they refused PP based on that an appeal to ABP could be worthwhile.

It's specifically listed in our planning permission and we had a pre planning meeting with the council a few years ago looking to add them due to abuse of parking and dumping of rubbish but it was a definite no. Mixed development, about 80% apartments

Dav010

elperello wrote: »

Sounds like they are referring to estates there which do have public areas.
Apartment complexes don't and the public have no business entering them.

Worth clarifying.
If they refused PP based on that an appeal to ABP could be worthwhile.

Also says it will prohibit “new” gated communities, they may refuse planning, but if planning is not required on existing developments for gates up to 2m, hard to see how they could prevent a gate being put up unless the planning on that complex specifically prohibited it. Strange how Dublin City Council state on their website planning for gates is not needed, Fingal says it prohibits it in new developments.

Wanderer78

Aoife_Byrne wrote:

Hi, can anyone advise re thisplease:My management company has erected gates around my apartment complex without any agreement from any residents. These gates will be locked with access given by ringing a number on a mobile phone to only people who are not in arrears hense blocking people from entering their own property. Can they do this? Is there anyone I can contact regarding this?

Can it be unlocked by another resident that isn't in arrears?

MartDublin

Dav010 wrote: »

Likewise, when I was on the board of Directors, we were more than happy to facilitate staged payments.

The op is taking flack here for not paying the sub, there is a difference between can’t and won’t. If the op is paying in instalments with the agreement of course he MC, there really should not be any criticism directed at the op.

Having said that, it is difficult to imagine a scenario where entrance to your property is prevented in totality by he new gates, I’m not a legal eagle but there would surely be legal consequences for the MC if they did that. I suspect op that you may not have all the facts relating to the new system, the info you have given does not seem complete.

As I said earlier, the gates didn’t arrive overnight, the decision would be long in the making, you said yourself it was as mentioned a number of times at AGMs. I suspect your entry will be limited to pedestrian gates until some arrangement can be made. The fact that the new system isn’t yet in function suggests they have given owners a period to pay subs before access through the new gates is restricted. Talk to them and pay, if you can.

I see another post above about planning, if the gates are less than 2m in height, which most are, no planning is necessary.

The OP is trying to pay now they can't get into the development. So I'd say the gates are doing their job.

Marcusm

Dav010 wrote: »

Which council area does that? I’ve checked loads of planning sites, coco sites etc, all say that gates can be placed up to 2m in height without need to apply for planning. Dublin tends to be among the most stringent, they allow gates up to 2m

https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/FileDownLoad%2C1586%2Cen.pdf

Permitted or exempted development does not apply to multi unit developments.

andekwarhola

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Can it be unlocked by another resident that isn't in arrears?

The usual mugs that like 'sticking it' to the management company then go looking for people to blame when the development ends up insolvent or unable to get insurance due to lack of funding.

Wanderer78

andekwarhola wrote: »

The usual mugs that like 'sticking it' to the management company then go looking for people to blame when the development ends up insolvent or unable to get insurance due to lack of funding.

so it probably can be unlocked by another resident, if needs be, if so, proceed with this method, while pursuing the legality of it, because that probably will be a lengthy battle

andekwarhola

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so it probably can be unlocked by another resident, if needs be, if so, proceed with this method, while pursuing the legality of it, because that probably will be a lengthy battle

while other people make sacrifices to keep financially supporting your use of street lighting, waste disposal, block insurance, repairs and ensuring that the development doesn't collapse into insolvency.

But keep Fighting The Power while other mugs pay your way.

Wanderer78

andekwarhola wrote: »

while other people make sacrifices to keep financially supporting your use of street lighting, waste disposal, block insurance, repairs and ensuring that the development doesn't collapse into insolvency.

But keep Fighting The Power while other mugs pay your way.

yea, anyhow...

andekwarhola

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yea, anyhow...

Did you flounce off to your room after you wrote that?

Wanderer78

andekwarhola wrote: »

Did you flounce off to your room after you wrote that?

na, but i did manage to throw loads of toys around the place, very satisfying i must say

AlanG

Aoife_Byrne wrote: »

I will be blocked from my apartment

If they are blocking you from accessing your home then they are absolutely breaking the law and your constitutional right to enjoy your property.

Arrears or no arrears are irrelevant. The management company are playing a very dangerous game and a likely to end up paying out a substantial settlement if they stand their ground.

Just like a landlord cant just change the locks when someone is arrears the management company cannot deny you access to your home. Talk of arrears is a completely different matter and they have legal paths they can go down to recover them.

c montgomery

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so it probably can be unlocked by another resident, if needs be, if so, proceed with this method, while pursuing the legality of it, because that probably will be a lengthy battle

There won't be a legal battle.
We do this exact thing in our development and debtors are not long paying. We also don't power wash or paint their units if in arrears.
Pedestrian gate is opened with a code, access granted to all residents even if in arrears.
People have threatened legal action, sought advice and come back tail between legs looking for payment plan.

Wanderer78

c montgomery wrote: »

There won't be a legal battle.
We do this exact thing in our development and debtors are not long paying. We also don't power wash or paint their units if in arrears.
People have threatened legal action, sought advice and come back tail between legs looking for payment plan.

so it probably could be unlocked by others

c montgomery

AlanG wrote: »

If they are blocking you from accessing your home then they are absolutely breaking the law and your constitutional right to enjoy your property.

Arrears or no arrears are irrelevant. The management company are playing a very dangerous game and a likely to end up paying out a substantial settlement if they stand their ground.

Just like a landlord cant just change the locks when someone is arrears the management company cannot deny you access to your home. Talk of arrears is a completely different matter and they have legal paths they can go down to recover them.

I believe there is a pedestrian gate available for use so access is available to property

c montgomery

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so it probably could be unlocked by others

Main gate or pedistian gate?

Main gate only opens by calling a phone number, only recognised numbers will open the gate.

Pedestrian gate code changed annually so people who left development can't access indefinitely

Wanderer78

c montgomery wrote: »

Main gate or pedistian gate?

i get you now, they have access via another gate

TheChizler

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i get you now, they have access via another gate

Aoife_Byrne wrote: »

I have a job, and other things to do, I'm not able 24/7.

I will not be able to access car park, bins or 2 pedestrian entrances (which is all there is) these are the only ways to access my apartment

There is no alternative access according to the OP, all access is blocked.

Graham

I think the OP had said that's what they expected, not what had happened.

Kingp35

Graham wrote: »

I think the OP had said that's what they expected, not what had happened.

Exactly. The OP has no idea if the pedestrian access will be blocked or not.

brucky

I did this years ago when we couldn't get apartment owners to pay outstanding management fees. The BOM would only give access to those that were reasonably up-to-date. We had each fob attributed to individual apartments. Some owners owed thousands. I took the phone calls from the "outraged" property owners. I got every excuse in the book, up to, and including cancer. You live in a community when you purchased you were fully aware that this included contributing to management fees for the running and maintenance of the complex. The fact that you "fell behind" is not everyone else's problem. You are the epitome of a snowflake.

When I did this we got over €40k in arrears, this enabled the BOM to maintain the block and grounds and undertake essential repairs to the benefit of all residents. I took great pleasure in taking phone calls from owners and telling them to pay up. They were "outraged & offended" at what we had done. I told them in no uncertain terms to stuck it up and pay! Can I suggest to you that you would benefit immensely from military service as you need to mentally adjust to the realities of life, and the reasonable expectation of those around you!