Parent cut ties with me but still thinks they can see my children

Sunrise_Sunset · 24-12-2019 12:39pm

qwerty13 wrote: »

My god. Textbook, isn’t it. Sounds like you’re well on your way in recognising his behaviour a mile off, and not falling for it. Good for you.

In my opinion, he knows that he can’t really get to you, so he’s gone for your weak spot - your kids. As in you want the best for them, and he’s trying to make it appear as though he cares about seeing them / could be a good grandfather to them. Of course it is all lies.

Absolutely! I didn't respond to any of it. Ignore, ignore, ignore. So he pulled out all the stops. First he's blaming me on him being sick, then it's cutting me off financially, then blaming me for my mother being sick due to stress, then cutting me off as his child, now trying to get at my kids. Never a truer narcissist than this man. The stories I could tell. As I'm sure you could do from your own experiences. But yes, this initially got to me, as it was 2 days before Christmas, and I had just spent time with my mother and my kids, and his behaviour left me shook. But I feel stronger again now today.

Sunrise_Sunset · 24-12-2019 12:47pm

HildaOgdenx wrote: »

I'm not an expert but, yes, as pp said, it would only be in defined circumstances that a grandparent would be deemed to have rights, to the best of my knowledge. It would also cost him money, as he would have to go the legal route, to find this out.

I am sorry that you are going through this. What a horrible situation. Absolutely prepare yourself, read up on 'flying monkeys' and the likes.

My opinion is that he wants do this purely as a way to gain control, with probably no real interest in the children.

Take care.

Thank you. I feel better reading this. He was probably trying this as a last ditch effort to get to me, as I didn't respond to any of his other tactics, but nonetheless it left me very worried. I would rather leave the country than let my kids see him!

Stateofyou · 24-12-2019 12:53pm

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Thank you. I feel better reading this. He was probably trying this as a last ditch effort to get to me, as I didn't respond to any of his other tactics, but nonetheless it left me very worried. I would rather leave the country than let my kids see him!

These types know how to push our buttons best, and that's what he's doing now. Thrashing around trying to push every last one in a desperate attempt for control. I hope all the blocks are well in place now so he can't affect you like this ever again. And if anything comes thru the post just burn it without reading. Your kids deserve you at your best and you so you deserve to be; don't let him rob one more minute of your happiness and peace of mind. Have you ever tried writing or typing in a journal? Every now and then when my feelings or fears start to get on top of me I do this and it's a great load off my mind. I have a paper one and a folder on my computer too. Might help for you to get all that out, mind yourself and happy Christmas to you and your kids.

Sunrise_Sunset · 24-12-2019 1:01pm

Stateofyou wrote: »

These types know how to push our buttons best, and that's what he's doing now. Thrashing around trying to push every last one in a desperate attempt for control. I hope all the blocks are well in place now so he can't affect you like this ever again. And if anything comes thru the post just burn it without reading. Your kids deserve you at your best and you so you deserve to be; don't let him rob one more minute of your happiness and peace of mind. Have you ever tried writing or typing in a journal? Every now and then when my feelings or fears start to get on top of me I do this and it's a great load off my mind. I have a paper one and a folder on my computer too. Might help for you to get all that out, mind yourself man and happy Christmas to you and your kids.

Oh yes, he wrote a letter a few months ago too. The poison that was in it! I read it but then ripped it up and threw it out. I knew if I kept it that I'd just keep reading it over and over and it would keep affecting me. I have since moved house and he doesn't have my address, but my mother does, and I think he could get it pretty easily if he wanted to, even though I've told my mother not to give it to him. She obviously gave him her phone yesterday to call me from, and I answered it. Or maybe he just took her phone without her knowing, I don't know.
I did write a reply to his letter, knowing that I would never send it, but just to get a few things off my chest, and it worked really well. You are right, my kids deserve me at my best and I can't let him ruin my life any longer. The past year since we've been estranged has actually been amazing! It was like a weight lifted from me. That's when I really, really knew how much of an awful person he is. I felt so light and airy and was loving life without him in it.

Panthro · 24-12-2019 1:09pm

OP, you've got this.
Keep doing what you're doing (or more so keep doing nothing!) you've already won because he's nothing on you. He's exhausted all his tactics. Let him off.
Enjoy the Xmas wiry the family and all the best!

Stateofyou · 24-12-2019 1:12pm

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Oh yes, he wrote a letter a few months ago too. The poison that was in it! I read it but then ripped it up and threw it out. I knew if I kept it that I'd just keep reading it over and over and it would keep affecting me. I have since moved house and he doesn't have my address, but my mother does, and I think he could get it pretty easily if he wanted to, even though I've told my mother not to give it to him. She obviously gave him her phone yesterday to call me from, and I answered it. Or maybe he just took her phone without her knowing, I don't know.
I did write a reply to his letter, knowing that I would never send it, but just to get a few things off my chest, and it worked really well. You are right, my kids deserve me at my best and I can't let him ruin my life any longer. The past year since we've been estranged has actually been amazing! It was like a weight lifted from me. That's when I really, really knew how much of an awful person he is. I felt so light and airy and was loving life without him in it.

Your dad seems to have the textbook alright, he's going through each and every predictable play in it!
What's the story with your mam, is she condoning this? Is he a bully to her, too?
Yep when anyone in your life serves to do nothing more than bring you down and harm your mental health, it's definitely a sign that they need to go. With parents or family it's especially hard to keep the boundaries up and as someone else mentioned there will be flying monkeys about ("but he's your dad," "you'll regret it one day," "he reared you,") but they aren't in your shoes. I read something on here once from someone who had been through something similar and it was brilliant: they may have given you life but you don't owe them yours. Every time you're tempted to unblock or respond to a tactic, remember how good it feels to not have that around you!

24-12-2019 1:14pm

Xterminator wrote: »

Hi Op

You are best placed to decide what is the best for your children. But there is a danger you could be acting from emotion here, by denying your children the relationship with their grandparent(s), as a bargaining chip.

the relationship with the grandparents is through
the parents.

no bargaining chip, just the way it is

lawred2 · 24-12-2019 1:19pm

qwerty13 wrote: »

I wouldn’t think he gives 2 hoots about seeing your children - it’s just another stick to beat you with. And one perfectly timed to maximise the guilt that he is trying to make you feel.

Don’t get sucked into his dramas, and don’t fall for his faux concern about seeing your kids. You’re doing absolutely the right thing with no contact.

Exactly..

What does he do the rest of the year?

Is he as eager to see them on the second Thursday in February?

This is posturing. To inflict maximum upset.

Sunrise_Sunset · 24-12-2019 2:50pm

Stateofyou wrote: »

Your dad seems to have the textbook alright, he's going through each and every predictable play in it!
What's the story with your mam, is she condoning this? Is he a bully to her, too?
Yep when anyone in your life serves to do nothing more than bring you down and harm your mental health, it's definitely a sign that they need to go. With parents or family it's especially hard to keep the boundaries up and as someone else mentioned there will be flying monkeys about ("but he's your dad," "you'll regret it one day," "he reared you,") but they aren't in your shoes. I read something on here once from someone who had been through something similar and it was brilliant: they may have given you life but you don't owe them yours. Every time you're tempted to unblock or respond to a tactic, remember how good it feels to not have that around you!

He has always been dominant and controlling in their marriage. She is a people pleaser and very passive. She does enable him. But I don't hold it against her, I know she's in a very difficult situation. Torn between her husband and her kids, and she still has to live with him. It's him causing all of the stress in the family, not me.
I have only told very close friends about my familial situation cos I know that people just wouldn't understand. Even the close friends I've told don't really get it but they know I'm genuine so they sympathise with me, but they have great parents so it's hard to understand. I think in our society most people blame the children in these situations.

Sunrise_Sunset · 24-12-2019 2:54pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Exactly..

What does he do the rest of the year?

Is he as eager to see them on the second Thursday in February?

This is posturing. To inflict maximum upset.

No, not so much ðŸ˜‰, funny that.
And the time he wrote me the poisonous letter was a few days after his birthday, when he was acting the baby and throwing his toys out of the pram because I didn't get in touch for his birthday. We were already estranged by then, and he had been extremely emotionally abusive and he thought what...that I'd get in touch for his birthday?! ðŸ˜µ

ILoveYourVibes · 26-12-2019 1:32am

Its up to your children really if they are old enough to decide.

If THEY decide to see their grandparents that is their choice.

If they are too young to decide ...then its up to you.

I wouldn't turn my children against my parents because my parents and i fell out.

I don't think i would think i was a 'package deal' with my kids. They are their own people etc.

If i thought my parents were a DANGER to my children that would be different though.

I really really would feel weird sending my kids to a place i was not allowed to supervise a little. I mean leaving kids alone for an hr or so with someone i trust is fine. But leaving them in a house you can't really see and know the environment etc.

I think you need to know what is going to be going on around children.

ILoveYourVibes · 26-12-2019 1:36am

Deleted User wrote: »

the relationship with the grandparents is through
the parents.

no bargaining chip, just the way it is

My relationship with my grandmother and grandad was NOT through my dad and mom ..it was between me as a person and my grandparents.

Often my mother didn't get on with her mother in law. They had awful awful rows and personality clashes. They are both stubborn.

But my relationship with her was always separate. Thank god!

Sunrise_Sunset · 26-12-2019 10:03am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its up to your children really if they are old enough to decide.

If THEY decide to see their grandparents that is their choice.

If they are too young to decide ...then its up to you.

I wouldn't turn my children against my parents because my parents and i fell out.

I don't think i would think i was a 'package deal' with my kids. They are their own people etc.

If i thought my parents were a DANGER to my children that would be different though.

I really really would feel weird sending my kids to a place i was not allowed to supervise a little. I mean leaving kids alone for an hr or so with someone i trust is fine. But leaving them in a house you can't really see and know the environment etc.

I think you need to know what is going to be going on around children.

I don't agree.
According to him I am no longer his child, therefore my children are no longer his grandchildren.
Also, my children are not missing out on a relationship with him. All he ever did was sit and read the paper in the same room as them for 5 minutes, then get fed up of the noise and leave the room, little to no interaction with them. Hardly a relationship.
He has said extremely poisonous and untrue things, he treats everyone terribly, there is no way I could trust him around my kids if I weren't there. And I can't trust my mother to intervene as she is under his thumb.

26-12-2019 10:06am

Did yesterday pass drama free anyway?

Sunrise_Sunset · 26-12-2019 10:08am

Deleted User wrote: »

Did yesterday pass drama free anyway?

Yes! We had a really lovely family day with my own little family. Thank you.

qwerty13 · 26-12-2019 4:48pm

Very glad for you that you had a lovely stress free day OP. Well done on not engaging. I know that can be difficult this time of year, when you have that feeling of almost being sucked back into the drama.

StinkyMunkey · 27-12-2019 2:17pm

This person will use any avenue to try and get to you. It was never about seeing the kids, it is simply about trying a new approach to hurt you.

It will be eating them up inside that you had the audacity to block them from your life, they will try anything to get to you, to hurt you.

Carry on with your life and simply do not engage, this more and than anything will punish them for their behaviour. The moment you engage, you empower them.

Your mother is under this nasty persons spell, deep down on some level she knows but will never address it.

This narcissistic will never change, they are incapable of changing. Continue as you are doing and carry on with your life without them in it. They are undeserving of a second thought. You obviously are a victim of a life time of emotional & psychological abuse.

Fakediamond · 27-12-2019 7:01pm

Just be prepared for everything that will follow. He will try and isolate you from all of the family, including your mother. If at all possible, have a chat with her and try and work something out to maintain contact, no matter how he tries to emotionally blackmail her. He will do it, you will have to be severely punished for daring to be brave enough to cut him off.

Whenever you waver in your resolve, remember that he does not love you, your children, your siblings, or his wife. You all just had a role to play in feeding his narcissistic needs. Harsh I know, but that is the sad reality.

qwerty13 · 27-12-2019 11:32pm

Just reading Stinky & Fake’s posts - they are exactly right from my experience. Scarily familiar and on the button.

It is such a hard thing to explain / get across to people who aren’t familiar with narcissistic behaviours. I didn’t really try, except to very very close friends. And I’m not sure they even quite got it. I guess if you take individual incidents, it can seem not ‘too bad’. But when you take the sum of the incidents, over a lifetime, it has the capacity to really damage: constantly being manipulated, ‘punished’ for not behaving as the narcissist wants, and never knowing where the next blow is going to come from.

On the plus side, once you gain proper awareness of the narcissistic behaviour, it becomes very easy to see what they are up to. And when you see the full weight of they way they have / are treating you, no contact is not as difficult as it might seem. And it is such an incredible relief to have no contact.

I think you are doing everything perfectly. Just be careful that your poor mother might be used against you. It took me a while to get over that part tbh, but I don’t harbour any ill will towards that parent any more. They’re a victim too. Just a far less enlightened one than you.

Sunrise_Sunset · 28-12-2019 1:02am

Fakediamond wrote: »

Just be prepared for everything that will follow. He will try and isolate you from all of the family, including your mother. If at all possible, have a chat with her and try and work something out to maintain contact, no matter how he tries to emotionally blackmail her. He will do it, you will have to be severely punished for daring to be brave enough to cut him off.

Whenever you waver in your resolve, remember that he does not love you, your children, your siblings, or his wife. You all just had a role to play in feeding his narcissistic needs. Harsh I know, but that is the sad reality.

I do feel that his next step will be to try to isolate my mother from me, and this worries me a lot. I don't know that she would be strong enough to stand up for herself and our relationship. I know that he doesn't love me or my children. I don't love him either. My life improved immensely since he cut ties with me, I just wish it could be more permanent, like if we lived further apart, or if he and my mother weren't together anymore. Ireland can be a bit a bit of a village.

qwerty13 wrote: »

Just reading Stinky & Fake’s posts - they are exactly right from my experience. Scarily familiar and on the button.

It is such a hard thing to explain / get across to people who aren’t familiar with narcissistic behaviours. I didn’t really try, except to very very close friends. And I’m not sure they even quite got it. I guess if you take individual incidents, it can seem not ‘too bad’. But when you take the sum of the incidents, over a lifetime, it has the capacity to really damage: constantly being manipulated, ‘punished’ for not behaving as the narcissist wants, and never knowing where the next blow is going to come from.

On the plus side, once you gain proper awareness of the narcissistic behaviour, it becomes very easy to see what they are up to. And when you see the full weight of they way they have / are treating you, no contact is not as difficult as it might seem. And it is such an incredible relief to have no contact.

I think you are doing everything perfectly. Just be careful that your poor mother might be used against you. It took me a while to get over that part tbh, but I don’t harbour any ill will towards that parent any more. They’re a victim too. Just a far less enlightened one than you.

I too have only confided in a few very close friends. They don't really understand though and I don't expect them to.
I don't blame my mother either. She has been controlled by this man her entire adult life. I know that some would say she's partly to blame for enabling him but I truly understand her predicament. To me she is an angel and I love her dearly.

pinkyeye · 29-12-2019 7:40pm

Can I ask OP how does your mother manager to see the children without your father there?

I'm asking because I've quite a toxic relationship with my father but I maintain it because I want to see my mother.

Sunrise_Sunset · 29-12-2019 9:23pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

Can I ask OP how does your mother manager to see the children without your father there?

I'm asking because I've quite a toxic relationship with my father but I maintain it because I want to see my mother.

Well we don't go to the house anymore. We meet in our local town/village for lunch and I bring the kids. We might have a walk etc. Sometimes I'll bring her along for days out to places the kids want to go to. For now it works, but I do worry that as she gets older it won't.

strandroad · 29-12-2019 9:29pm

OP one thing I would advise you to do is to write down everything this person said or wrote to you, even if it's upsetting and you purged it for good reason. Keep a journal going forward too. They will try to manipulate your family for sure, and you should be able to lay your reasons out clearly to anyone who needs evidence of what kind of person you are dealing with. People are not used to narcissist abuse and they might look for goodwill where there is none; you don't want to be in a position where in a few years your own child says "well that's only your word against theirs". Please trust me that it does help to have a reminder.

Sunrise_Sunset · 29-12-2019 9:43pm

strandroad wrote: »

OP one thing I would advise you to do is to write down everything this person said or wrote to you, even if it's upsetting and you purged it for good reason. Keep a journal going forward too. They will try to manipulate your family for sure, and you should be able to lay your reasons out clearly to anyone who needs evidence of what kind of person you are dealing with. People are not used to narcissist abuse and they might look for goodwill where there is none; you don't want to be in a position where in a few years your own child says "well that's only your word against theirs". Please trust me that it does help to have a reminder.

This is great advice, thank you. I will do this.

pinkyeye · 29-12-2019 9:57pm

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Well we don't go to the house anymore. We meet in our local town/village for lunch and I bring the kids. We might have a walk etc. Sometimes I'll bring her along for days out to places the kids want to go to. For now it works, but I do worry that as she gets older it won't.

Yeah, it's definitely a worry. My Mam is currently dying of lung cancer so we have to bring the children and great grandchildren to the house and yet he's still there so it's sickening.

Sunrise_Sunset · 16-01-2020 10:56pm

OP here.
A new development in recent days. My mother rang me, saying my Dad asked her to ring me saying he wants to make amends. He knew I wouldn't speak to him if he rang me so he went through my mother. He says he misses me and he wants to make amends. I said well does he miss me or miss the kids, cos to me this just reeks of him realising that he won't be seeing my kids with the way that things are right now between us. I was more honest with my mother about the things he has said and done and she said she understands everything that I am saying. I said I would need to think about it. Urrrrggghhhhh.

HildaOgdenx · 16-01-2020 11:52pm

Take your time. You don't have to agree to anything.

Just looking back over your posts ...'According to him I am no longer his child' etc. That's not an easy thing to get past, in my opinion. So as I said, you don't have to agree to anything, or any contact, just because he has decided he wants it.

Do you have someone that you can talk it all out with, preferably someone completely outside of the situation?

qwerty13 · 17-01-2020 12:50am

Are you sure this comes from him, or might it be your mother trying to force some sort of reconciliation?

I’ve never really understood the point about him seeing your kids. It sounded to me as though he has minimal / no interest in them.

Before I’d consider even thinking about this, I would want to know how he proposes to make amends. And I’d be looking for a detailed letter of apology from him. As he’s so fond of letter writing.

ManOfMystery · 17-01-2020 11:12am

If he wants to make amends, and you're open to that, then I'd let him try - but without your kids present. Any meetings should be with him and you only for now, and if he's truly wanting to try to fix things then he'll exercise a little patience. If it's just a ploy to see the kids then I doubt his patience will last due to his nature.

Away With The Fairies · 17-01-2020 11:30am

Narcissists don't apologize. Don't hold out hope. He may try but they find it physically impossible to actually say sorry. But will use their attempt at whatever they call apologizing and making amends to use against you. Well it's your fault you're not taking it even though they will never ever say one little word-sorry. You might get some attempt at making amends alright but no actual apology because deep down they still feel the hatred towards you and think you're not worthy of an apology.

Parent cut ties with me but still thinks they can see my children

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