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14-02-2020, 11:49   #4201
ancapailldorcha
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Originally Posted by El_Duderino 09 View Post
Sweet suffering Jesus.

Had to google it to see if it’s real. I had never heard anything about this before.
Mad, isn't it?

It'd be a very easy thing to suggest that a Catholic who founded a boys home would be sexually motivated but this... How did this even get published?
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14-02-2020, 11:54   #4202
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See below:
Jaysus, I though you were going to at least go to the effort of regurgitating some of Ruth Dudely Edwards efforts.


He wrote a poem about having two sons, do you think he was a Mother as well?
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14-02-2020, 12:01   #4203
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Jaysus, I though you were going to at least go to the effort of regurgitating some of Ruth Dudely Edwards efforts.


He wrote a poem about having two sons, do you think he was a Mother as well?
If people want to see him as a sacred cow who should never be criticised then that's their call. The thread is not about him so I'm not going to go any further with this. I was just dropping whatever examples first entered my head in my above post.
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14-02-2020, 12:02   #4204
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This interviewer is awful.

She's inherently biased.
Probably thinks he's sexist.

Awful, awful stuff.

Equal opportunity not outcome should be the target.
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14-02-2020, 12:05   #4205
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If people want to see him as a sacred cow who should never be criticised then that's their call. The thread is not about him so I'm not going to go any further with this. I was just dropping whatever examples first entered my head in my above post.
Well, to be fair, the accusation has been made which is interesting, but I won't make any conclusions about PP based on the accusation and the poem. It's interesting though.

Last edited by El_Duderino 09; 14-02-2020 at 12:10.
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14-02-2020, 12:07   #4206
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Well, to be fair, the accusation has been made which is interesting, but I won't make a by conclusions about PP based on the accusation and the poem. It's interesting though.
Well, when someone's response is as above then I do not see any point in continuing. I've not read biographies of Pearse, just giving my opinion on what I do know.
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14-02-2020, 12:12   #4207
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Well, when someone's response is as above then I do not see any point in continuing. I've not read biographies of Pearse, just giving my opinion on what I do know.
That's fair enough for you because you've done the reading. I haven't so I don't know.

Edit, I thought you said you had read biographies.
Anyway, we've gone off topic.

Last edited by El_Duderino 09; 14-02-2020 at 12:21.
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14-02-2020, 12:12   #4208
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That's fair enough for you because you've done the reading. I haven't so I don't know.
Anyway, we've gone off topic.
Indeed. Let's leave it there.
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14-02-2020, 12:12   #4209
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Well, to be fair, the accusation has been made which is interesting, but I won't make a by conclusions about PP based on the accusation and the poem. It's interesting though.
As far as I’m aware there is no evidence that Pearse was an “active” abuser. No allegations or anything like that.

I’ve heard the poetry and plays he wrote being used as proof but, when it comes down to it, all it can really prove is that he might have “fantasised” about it.

Still, it doesn’t look great. Stephen Fry has some “questionable” stuff in his back catalogue too, but none of it is proof of anything.

And I’m sure if we were to look at some of the songs written from the 50s on through the 70s we’d see numerous examples of “creepy” lyrics regarding young teenage girls.
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14-02-2020, 12:20   #4210
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I read 12 rules. It's a mix of old school Dad advice, ranting about lefties and likening them to Stalinists and some truly bizarre Grandpa Simpson-esque nonsense about existence.
I also read it. I'm quite big into the area of personal development, and I wouldn't really consider 12 steps to be particularly good. A few good ideas, but most of them can be found in other self-help books or management books going back two/three decades. So nothing particularly new.

And generally when it comes to personal development books, it is the perspective that is different while the techniques remain mostly the same. The score is when you find an author who describes the technique, but does it in such a manner, that it clicks with your personality or general outlook. I didn't like Petersons writing style, and his political ranting at the end, just ended the book for me. All I could think was WTF? Where did this crap come from?

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Karl Marx was a notorious antiSemite, even for his time and spent his life sponging off of Friedrich Engels, Padraig Pearse was almost certainly a child molester, Dr. Seuss was a notorious philanderer whose wife took her own life, etc... While it's not hard to find many more such examples, a lot of these people make significant cultural and philosophical contributions. I see none of this from Peterson.
Neither would I, but what exactly are we elevating him into? In terms of personal development, he's not saying anything new. He's simply rehashing other peoples revelations and using a different format to describe them. In terms of current affairs, feminism, etc. he's promoted male rights and sought to reduce the impact of feminism or PC thinking.. but he's hardly charismatic enough to generate a platform to push his beliefs effectively.

I think his achievements match the age that we live in. The age of technology, skepticism, and willful ignorance. A world of social media crusader knights and agendas (from minorities) driving policy for the majority. It's an age of misinformation, and confusion...

So what has he achieved? Very little, except that he stands out as one of the more reasonable opponents of both feminist/SJW agendas, and PC movements.

I tend to look at the area(s) of male rights/anti-pc, and consider the progression of those who fight against the movements. The first few generations of speakers were muppets. Extremists. Full of hate, bile, or out to trigger responses. Milo springs to mind. Very interesting, but a complete troll. Alienated his supporters as much as his opponents. And there's a pile of other similar speakers who were borderline nutjobs, but still raised the issues that shouldn't be spoken of.... because many of those topics were taboo due to the influence of feminists/sjw aggression. Next we have Peterson, and while he's not perfect, he's a more logical and reasonable face for the movement. And the person who replaces him will be even better.

Personally, I'd imagine Peterson is part of a movement that is evolving. His value is that the movement is moving away from the likes of Milo, or MTGOW and giving a more reasonable image, and far more focus on logical thinking.

Last edited by klaz; 14-02-2020 at 12:23.
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14-02-2020, 12:48   #4211
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What outrageous statements?
I don't think he is consistently outrageous, at least in my limited experience of him. So I am not going to suggest he is AS BAD as some people here might. Most of what he says is not outrageous, just..... devoid of any real content. He has a Deepak Chopra like skill of saying a lot of fancy sounding stuff without seemingly saying anything at all.

But he has definitely come out with SOME absolute howlers of supreme nonsense. But sure haven't we all???? I would hardly hang him for it. No one is perfect and the more a man like him speaks the more he is gonna eventually say nonsense.

But if you want some examples I could offer as few. For example he straight up said he believes that you can not be an artist.... or over come addiction (a little more relevant given recent news).... without a god. What nonsense is that?

In conversation Matt Dilahunty pulled him up on this. The best he could do to defend his view is just to indicate the godless people are deluded and only THINK They are godless:

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Dillahunty: "What are you afraid of if we lose religion, demonstrate to me any benefit"
Peterson: "Oh you would lose art, poetry, drama, narrative and story telling".
Dillahunty: "Oh why, are there no godless artists and poets?"
Peterson: "There are artists and poets who THINK they are godless."
That is outrageous nonsense in my book for a start. Without religion we could not tell stories? BULL. Absolute bull. The creation and formation of stories is what the human brain does. Religious nonsense does not give us stories. Stories give us the religious nonsense.

He plays the William Craig Lane move on thinking gods are required for morality too. In fact he claims that atheists are not really atheists because if they were they would all be like straight out of Dostoyevsky and the fact they are not means they can not actually really be atheist. They are just lying that they are atheist. So seemingly mind reading is in his repertoire. En Masse.

Quote:
Dillahunty: "I agree people take drugs and report experiences they describe as mystical. We have no way to confirm something supernatural actually happened".
Peterson: "It stops people from smoking"
Dillahunty: "Well you can stop smoking without supernatural intervention".
Peterson: "No, not really"
Dillahunty: "You CANT stop smoking without supernatural intervention?????"
Finally his claim that through the use of drugs people obtained, long before science discovered it, a knowledge of the Double Helix nature of DNA is probably the biggest howler I have heard him spew out. His evidence for this? An image of art showing two snakes intertwined. And solely by looking at this piece of art he decided that these tribes used Ayhuwascha (sp?) and it told them about the double helix nature of DNA.

I mean..... really.

But all that said, so the hell what? Get well soon old man. I think underneath a few howlers you are a decent sort, heart mostly in the right place, and you likely have sorted 1000s of young people onto a better path in their life. No one deserves your suffering, least of all you. Come back to us alive and well!
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14-02-2020, 14:39   #4212
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I also read it. I'm quite big into the area of personal development, and I wouldn't really consider 12 steps to be particularly good. A few good ideas, but most of them can be found in other self-help books or management books going back two/three decades. So nothing particularly new.

And generally when it comes to personal development books, it is the perspective that is different while the techniques remain mostly the same. The score is when you find an author who describes the technique, but does it in such a manner, that it clicks with your personality or general outlook. I didn't like Petersons writing style, and his political ranting at the end, just ended the book for me. All I could think was WTF? Where did this crap come from?
Pretty much my reaction as well, K. It's just a load of waffle based on an answer he gave once on Quora.com that someone persuaded him to turn into a book which he mentions in the introduction or preface to 12 rules.

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Neither would I, but what exactly are we elevating him into? In terms of personal development, he's not saying anything new. He's simply rehashing other peoples revelations and using a different format to describe them. In terms of current affairs, feminism, etc. he's promoted male rights and sought to reduce the impact of feminism or PC thinking.. but he's hardly charismatic enough to generate a platform to push his beliefs effectively.
I'm not really elevating him into anything myself, either good or bad. He's not much more than an old guy with opinions, some old school Conservative, some religious and some barmy.

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I think his achievements match the age that we live in. The age of technology, skepticism, and willful ignorance. A world of social media crusader knights and agendas (from minorities) driving policy for the majority. It's an age of misinformation, and confusion...
Culture war is the term that comes to mind.

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Originally Posted by klaz View Post
So what has he achieved? Very little, except that he stands out as one of the more reasonable opponents of both feminist/SJW agendas, and PC movements.

I tend to look at the area(s) of male rights/anti-pc, and consider the progression of those who fight against the movements. The first few generations of speakers were muppets. Extremists. Full of hate, bile, or out to trigger responses. Milo springs to mind. Very interesting, but a complete troll. Alienated his supporters as much as his opponents. And there's a pile of other similar speakers who were borderline nutjobs, but still raised the issues that shouldn't be spoken of.... because many of those topics were taboo due to the influence of feminists/sjw aggression. Next we have Peterson, and while he's not perfect, he's a more logical and reasonable face for the movement. And the person who replaces him will be even better.

Personally, I'd imagine Peterson is part of a movement that is evolving. His value is that the movement is moving away from the likes of Milo, or MTGOW and giving a more reasonable image, and far more focus on logical thinking.
There's way worse than Peterson. The one thing that I think he's complete unreasonable with is his climate change denialism. That aside, he's just some guy with opinions to me.

I'd also question your usage of the term "movement". I was part of a few online ones until I realized that all these people cared about was whining and moaning. The Damascene moment for me was on a mens' rights page where a woman described her struggle to open up a Men's Shed in her area. Not one of the feckers ever offered to help. No offer of a donation, a hand with painting or anything like that. Zip. Nada.
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14-02-2020, 15:36   #4213
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If people want to see him as a sacred cow who should never be criticised then that's their call. The thread is not about him so I'm not going to go any further with this. I was just dropping whatever examples first entered my head in my above post.

So the first example to enter your head was a bull**** one that you won't defend, why not try again? Gwan.
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14-02-2020, 18:13   #4214
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I'd also question your usage of the term "movement". I was part of a few online ones until I realized that all these people cared about was whining and moaning. The Damascene moment for me was on a mens' rights page where a woman described her struggle to open up a Men's Shed in her area. Not one of the feckers ever offered to help. No offer of a donation, a hand with painting or anything like that. Zip. Nada.
I'd use the term movement in the same way as someone would say "feminism". A wide range of organisations with different beliefs, but all promoting a common element of male/female rights. To boost the need for public recognition of those needs.

I'm part of a few smaller organisations for male rights but they're pretty minor, and don't have much influence (mostly helping each other with legal fees, advice, moral support etc). I tend to shy away from the bigger groups because there tends to be more extremists, politics, and massaging each others bitterness involved.

I see it as a "movement" similar to how feminism developed over time. Feminism has gone through many stages of evolution, and so too do these male groups and the messages to be promoted. The circumstances and the environment is different and so there's different challenges involved. I'd see Peterson's contribution to be that he encouraged others to speak out against the injustices that society pushes against males... which is definitely a positive, since many people previously felt obliged to stay quiet out of fear of being targeted. He's just another person who has been a positive step for the "movement" to get away from extremist or emotionally bitter idiotic bitching.

Agree with everything else you said.

Last edited by klaz; 14-02-2020 at 18:16.
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14-02-2020, 18:16   #4215
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That's horrific, if true.

I wonder what his next book will be about...

Anyone know what's the story with going to Russia for treatment?
Free healthcare?
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