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14-02-2020, 10:18   #76
CrankyHaus
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Originally Posted by inforfun View Post


5 years earlier. Rotterdam May 1940. My dad was 7 and living there when that happened. And then came the hunger winter of 44\45
Dont expect sympathy from me for germans. Never had it, never will have.
I'd always have sympathy for individuals facing the horrors of war regardless of the crimes of their side. That sympathy doesn't change the fact that bombing Dresden was a necessary evil though.
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14-02-2020, 10:32   #77
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Nazi Germany's uniquely extreme policies of racial persecution are a historical fact, not "Allied Propaganda". There is no equivalence between Nazi Germany and the racism and anti-semitism sadly common elsewhere at the time.
You're jumping over points, and answering them as if the point made was different. I didn't dispute Nazi racial policies, nor did I claim them to be allied propaganda. You're reading what you want to read rather than dealing with what's written.

Until you actually respond to what I wrote, there's little point following up on this. Unless the whole point is to move away from what I originally wrote?

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Wehrmacht war crimes are well documented historical fact and the "clean Wehrmacht" myth is well debunked by now outside of Nazi sympathiser circles. Asking for links puts you in company with those who demand "proof" that the holocaust occurred.
Wehrmach war crimes are well documented now. Once again, you're applying the wonderful ability of hindsight, and suggesting that the allies knew everything that you have access to. They didn't. Excesses in warfare were accepted as being relatively normal, but the degree of excess that Wehrmacht and SS troops engaged in wasn't commonly known until much later in the war.

You're very quick to assign labels to posters who disagree with you, just as you're also very quick to post unrelated content in response to other peoples posts.

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Here's a quick one anyway: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-20698098
No dates covering it's operation, nor any real details about what they found.

"During the Battle of Britain in 1940, captured Luftwaffe pilots were held initially at Trent Park. The rooms at Trent Park had been equipped with hidden microphones that allowed the British to listen in to the pilots' conversations. This provided information about the German pilots' views on a number of matters, including the relative strengths and weaknesses of German aircraft.[10]

But we're looking for generals, not luftwaffe or submarine crews...

Later in the war it was used as a special prisoner-of-war camp (the 'Cockfosters Cage'[11]) for captured German generals and staff officers."

Wiki " These Axis forces finally surrendered in May 1943, leaving the Allies with around 260,000 enemy prisoners of war on their hands."

"Britain's own German prisoners from the Desert War were held in camps in the Middle East, with the exception of a few high-ranking officers who were sent to Britain for interrogation"


So, these generals and the information they revealed came about as late as 1943...

As I said, you tend to apply hindsight rather than appreciate what was known at the time of the war itself.

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No idea what you're talking about here.
Then, I'll just let it go, because I can't be bothered.

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The outcome of the war was very much in doubt after the invasion of Russia, which was expected to fall many times until the tide turned in 1943. Certainly by 1945 Germany could not win, but it would not surrender and continued to fight. How would you prosecute the last months of the war if strategic bombing was off the table? Tell tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of Allied troops that they'll have to take one for the team because Klaz thinks bombing is mean?
Ahh but I didn't say for strategic bombing to be off the table. Once more, you're making leaps... and I'm not terribly interested in following you, because you keep doing it.

I wouldn't mind engaging in a discussion with you about WW2 but you seem incapable of replying to what I've wrote, and instead, feel the need to go off on a separate tangent. You've done this a few times now, and I have no belief that you won't continue doing it. No point engaging in a long discussion with you.
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14-02-2020, 10:39   #78
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What’s wrong with what he said? If they could do the same to ISIS these days would you be hand wringing as well?

What a stupid comparison. All kinds of asshats from around the globe flocked to ISIS to commit war crimes nobody forced them to go to Syria/Iraq etc.. . The vast majority of German people had no choice but to join the German army they couldn't just jump on a plane and head to Bermuda and soak up some sun until it was over.
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14-02-2020, 11:22   #79
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What’s wrong with what he said? If they could do the same to ISIS these days would you be hand wringing as well?
This is just the argument that Isis/Taliban/Hezbollah (select Middle Eastern/Islamic bogey man organisation of choice) advances for their indiscriminate attacks against Western Civilians. "They're all to blame; they tolerate,nay encourage, their governments to make war on our civilians. THEY MUST PAY!"

Aithníon cíaróg......
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14-02-2020, 11:22   #80
CrankyHaus
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Originally Posted by klaz View Post

Ahh but I didn't say for strategic bombing to be off the table. Once more, you're making leaps... and I'm not terribly interested in following you, because you keep doing it.

I wouldn't mind engaging in a discussion with you about WW2 but you seem incapable of replying to what I've wrote, and instead, feel the need to go off on a separate tangent. You've done this a few times now, and I have no belief that you won't continue doing it. No point engaging in a long discussion with you.
Just tell me what you are saying then, as clearly as possible.
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14-02-2020, 11:24   #81
Snickers Man
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Nope but give me a button and I’d press it no problems, couldn’t care less
I think you'll find there's a knob on your head.....
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14-02-2020, 12:56   #82
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Germany's racial policies were exaggerated to a large degree by the propagandists on the Allied side. Apart from the anti Jewish side of it, the rest existed only on paper if at all.If you search it online you will find pictures of coloured people in German uniform.

People of all races and colours served in the German armed forces and were treated the same as their German comrades (and this was at a time when there was segregation based on race in the American army).

And this is a quote from Hitler on the Chinese "I do not regard them as inferior to us,indeed I readily admit that their history is far greater than ours".

I don't think you would ever hear a comment like that coming from Churchill.
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14-02-2020, 12:58   #83
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Germany's racial policies were exaggerated to a large degree by the propagandists on the Allied side. Apart from the anti Jewish side of it, the rest existed only on paper if at all.
You think Hitler's anti-Slav rhetoric, policies, and massacres were on paper?

Jaysis.
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14-02-2020, 13:01   #84
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You think Hitler's anti-Slav rhetoric, policies, and massacres were on paper?

Jaysis.
Are you denying that millions of Slavs served in the German army?
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14-02-2020, 14:15   #85
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Are you denying that millions of Slavs served in the German army?
What? Answer the question.
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14-02-2020, 14:18   #86
archer22
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What? Answer the question.
Fcuking answer it yourself
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14-02-2020, 14:26   #87
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RThe same applies to Dresden. It was a necessary evil forced on the world by the genocidal aggression of Nazi Germany.
"The world"?

Nope, Britain and the US. Two nations up to their eyeballs in genocide, ethnic cleansing, and apartheid.
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14-02-2020, 14:32   #88
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Great pictures and I genuinely take some satisfaction from knowing that many German civilians suffered terrible deaths during those bombings. They had plenty of blood on their hands as a people by then and very few were innocent or had no role to play in their war effort, or the suffering of those sent to their deaths in the camps.

Spectacular stuff.
Wow. That is one sick, twisted, perverse piece of horse manure.
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14-02-2020, 14:36   #89
B.A._Baracus
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Looking at the pictures in the first post it's mental that some of the buildings walls are still up. Like, the the interiors got leveled but not completely destroyed. Freaky. Hollow shells left behind.
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14-02-2020, 14:45   #90
Tacitus Kilgore
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Looking at the pictures in the first post it's mental that some of the buildings walls are still up. Like, the the interiors got leveled but not completely destroyed. Freaky. Hollow shells left behind.
It was the ferocity of the firestorm afaik, anything that could burn was completely incinerated.



It's horrifying what we humans can do to each other, and the planet.
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