What's the definition of Irish begrudgery

Kylta · 06-08-2020 11:34am #1

Can anybody define the meaning Irish begrudgery.
I don't particularly like say Jedward. But i'm glad that they have done well for themselves.
I personally don't like Ronan Keating singing (because well he can't sing bless him). But I respect him for the charity work he done on behalf on his late mother charity.
The above artist are my personnel opinions so there is no need for comment on them.

I may not like Irish people in their chosen field(musicians/actors/actress/sport etc) But I love to see Irish people do well and make what they can as they go through life. Because the majority of them never forget where they come from and I'd imagine are very charitable in their own ways.

So am I a begruder, if I think some of them are crap at what they do? Even though I want them to do earn well?

TheBoyConor · 06-08-2020 11:38am

Begrudgery is just sourness and doing all you can to talk down and put down people you see doing well for themselves because of a perception that they now have notions about themselves and you want to bring them back down to reality.

EmmetSpiceland · 06-08-2020 11:41am

A lot of Irish men do not enjoy hearing the opinions of “successful“, or famous, women.

Just yesterday, on this very site, successful women like Sharon Horgan, Una Healy and Laura Whitmore were “attacked” because they may have picked up a slight English accent after years of living there.

artanevilla · 06-08-2020 11:44am

It's a term used to dismiss any criticism (justified or not) of anyone who is somewhat successful (perceived or not).

Kylta · 06-08-2020 11:45am

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Begrudgery is just sourness and doing all you can to talk down and put down people you see doing well for themselves because of a perception that they now have notions about themselves and you want to bring them back down to reality.

Ok, but how can a person be jealous of another person achieving their goals especially if they don't know the successful person.
And at what stage does slagging become become begrudery?

harr · 06-08-2020 11:45am

Example would be , I have a friend who did well for himself. He came from a poorer background and went to England to study and came back home to set up a fairly successful business. Still a very sound guy but the amount of people who would say that he now has notions because he drives a nice car and has a nice house.
Because he is now a business man people think he is out and out bollix ... if he was still at home scratching his hole and on the dole like most of his family he would be a sound lad again.
No mention of the 80 hour weeks he does or the local jobs he supports.

Kylta · 06-08-2020 11:46am

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

A lot of Irish men do not enjoy hearing the opinions of “successful“, or famous, women.

Just yesterday, on this very site, successful women like Sharon Horgan, Una Healy and Laura Whitmore were “attacked” because they may have picked up a slight English accent after years of living there.

Why women in particular?

Dakota Dan · 06-08-2020 11:46am

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

A lot of Irish men do not enjoy hearing the opinions of “successful“, or famous, women.

Just yesterday, on this very site, successful women like Sharon Horgan, Una Healy and Laura Whitmore were “attacked” because they may have picked up a slight English accent after years of living there.

So because of that you made your original assumption? Somehow I doubt a few posters on boards represent a lot of Irish men.

EmmetSpiceland · 06-08-2020 11:50am

Dakota Dan wrote: »

So because of that you made your original assumption? Somehow I doubt a few posters on boards represent a lot of Irish men.

Apologies, D. You’re right. I should have specified “on here”.

The Raging Bile Duct · 06-08-2020 11:50am

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

A lot of Irish men do not enjoy hearing the opinions of “successful“, or famous, women.

Just yesterday, on this very site, successful women like Sharon Horgan, Una Healy and Laura Whitmore were “attacked” because they may have picked up a slight English accent after years of living there.

I don't know about the others but Laura Whitmore was being 'attacked' for being completely tone deaf on Twitter going from a post about an upcoming podcast celebrating the British Army to an RIP post for John Hume. Storm in a teacup stuff but it did look very silly.

TheBoyConor · 06-08-2020 11:52am

I think a lot of it has to do with the perception that the successful person has developed notions about themselves, and that if their look runs out they'll be eating humble pie and coming crawling back to where they came from.

06-08-2020 11:55am

Begrudgers to lesser status beings in their presence:

"What are ye doing here?"

"Who the hell are you"

Averted gaze

Begrudgers to those who they see as the higher echelon:

Nice car, shame about the dude

He only uses that sportcar to go down to the shops and back

Nice grand piano she owns, shame she can't play any decent tune out of it.

The Raging Bile Duct · 06-08-2020 11:56am

Kylta wrote: »

Ok, but how can a person be jealous of another person achieving their goals especially if they don't know the successful person.
And at what stage does slagging become become begrudery?

I would have thought it would be easy enough to spot when the intention of slagging goes from having fun with someone to putting someone down.

Also, I think there's a fair few people out there that use 'slagging' to try and disguise the fact that they're being a total prick.

gailforecast · 06-08-2020 11:56am

I don’t believe that you have to even look as far as celebrities to find begrudgery. Typically it takes the form of anyone from the locality doing exceptionally well and the locals finding some way to denigrate them. Eddie Haughey was from the same place as I was raised, and I remember it being about a 50/50 split of people saying either “look what hard work can achieve” or either that he “Was an arsehole as a kid and he’s an arsehole now who got lucky”. For large portions of society, having a successful neighbour brings out the worst in people.

Church on Tuesday · 06-08-2020 12:03pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

A lot of Irish men do not enjoy hearing the opinions of “successful“, or famous, women.

Just yesterday, on this very site, successful women like Sharon Horgan, Una Healy and Laura Whitmore were “attacked” because they may have picked up a slight English accent after years of living there.

Oh this ****e again.

I'm a man and I love to hear about success stories irregardless of gender, it takes any amount of courage and determination to achieve in your particular field.

But if an individual in the public arena is just not that very talented or a clown then he/she is open to fair criticism because they put themselves in that public light in the first instance. :rolleyes:

The Raging Bile Duct · 06-08-2020 12:10pm

I think there is a bit of a problem that accusations of begrudgery can be used to quell criticism or concerns that might be genuine and nothing to do with begrudging someone. Saying you don't like U2 or the fact that you think that Sean Quinn and his family are a bunch of shysters doesn't equate to typical Irish begrudgery in my eyes.

IAMAMORON · 06-08-2020 12:23pm

It is an ancient Irish pastime invented by the druids to keep successful people focused, honest and loyal to their past. It is a vital part of the Irish persona and helps to build character. Even the captain of the ship has the responsibility of sailing it safely, whilst dining at his table and getting first nibs on the chambermaids.

It is a more innate Irish trait than people accept to believe. It is essentially a social mechanism, we all use it in some shape or form. Its' purpose is to keep friends and loved ones grounded. No one likes seeing people we care about ," getting ahead of themselves".

Oranage2 · 06-08-2020 12:26pm

Begrudgery is like when a family member works hard and gets a 100k job, instead of being happy people will try and put him/her down.

Or when someone gets married to a foreigner and people say 'couldn't get an Irish guy/gal'

Or when someone moves out of a housing estate to a nice location the neighbors will say something like 'he/she wasn't reared that way'

Or when someone becomes popular for music or TV people will say they're not that talented.

Agricola · 06-08-2020 12:31pm

In it's mild Irish form, begrudgery is a healthy thing.

Better a culture of skepticism and taking the mick out of our betters, ie Bono, than a culture of adulation and veneration of those who are materially successful, or perceived to be. Hell will have frozen over before a Donald Trump character is elected in Ireland, that's for sure.

Kylta · 06-08-2020 12:31pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It is an ancient Irish pastime invented by the druids to keep successful people focused, honest and loyal to their past. It is a vital part of the Irish persona and helps to build character. Even the captain of the ship has the responsibility of sailing it safely, whilst dining at his table and getting first nibs on the chambermaids.

It is a more innate Irish trait than people accept to believe. It is essentially a social mechanism, we all use it in some shape or form. Its' purpose is to keep friends and loved ones grounded. No one likes seeing people we care about ," getting ahead of themselves".

Was it not an old irish custom to slag somebody and then pat him on the back and wish him well?

Kylta · 06-08-2020 12:34pm

Actually is begrudgery a more common thing these days. With the likes of social media were people can say what they want for anywhere while hiding behind a keyboard?

MonkstownHoop · 06-08-2020 12:38pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

A lot of Irish men do not enjoy hearing the opinions of “successful“, or famous, women.

Just yesterday, on this very site, successful women like Sharon Horgan, Una Healy and Laura Whitmore were “attacked” because they may have picked up a slight English accent after years of living there.

How many threads will you copy and paste your gender agenda in?

RocketRaccoon · 06-08-2020 12:39pm

It's when you see people giving out about Conor McGregors athletic ability and their complete inability to separate the sports ability from the obvious human flaws.

"he's ****e, not even close to a good fighter cause he's a smack head who hangs around with scumbags"

He is in our top 3 sports people ever on the international stage yet you'll have idiots disagree because of other non sport related crap.

EmmetSpiceland · 06-08-2020 12:42pm

MonkstownHoop wrote: »

How many threads will you copy and paste your gender agenda in?

No “agenda” here, bub. Merely calling it as I see it.

Kylta · 06-08-2020 12:51pm

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

It's when you see people giving out about Conor McGregors athletic ability and their complete inability to separate the sports ability from the obvious human flaws.

"he's ****e, not even close to a good fighter cause he's a smack head who hangs around with scumbags"

He is in our top 3 sprorts people ever on the international stage yet you'll have idiots disagree because of other non sport related crap.

In regards to conor, he is he's own PR machine (i personally don't like MMA fighting, it does nothing for me). Whereas some of the stuff he does or comes out with makes people actually despise him. He has made major money and congratulations to him, I would've liking to see him invest his money and hopefully become a successful business man in the future which I hope he does, instead of becoming a has been that has nothing. Many a sports star has ended up destitute especially boxers.

MrMusician18 · 06-08-2020 12:54pm

They're is nothing uniquely Irish about begrudgery. What is uniquely Irish is that Irish people think begrudgery is uniquely Irish.

Rothko · 06-08-2020 1:01pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

A lot of Irish men do not enjoy hearing the opinions of “successful“, or famous, women.

Just yesterday, on this very site, successful women like Sharon Horgan, Una Healy and Laura Whitmore were “attacked” because they may have picked up a slight English accent after years of living there.

You are a hero

partyguinness · 06-08-2020 1:04pm

Begrudgery is basically jealousy by small minded people toward anyone who has moved on and done well for themselves.

Zebra3 · 06-08-2020 1:05pm

People slagging off John Delaney when he was doing such a great job at the FAI.

He's so talented he turned down a million a year job elsewhere.

Denis O'Brien, one of Ireland's most successful business people of all time, even said that Delaney could run FIFA.

And yet Irish people begrudged him his vast salary and expenses.

JeffKenna · 06-08-2020 1:06pm

It's why I dislike Ray D'arcy

MrMusician18 · 06-08-2020 1:07pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Begrudgery is basically jealousy by small minded people toward anyone who has moved on and done well for themselves.

It is also used as a way to deflect valid criticism against those that have been successful.

partyguinness · 06-08-2020 1:10pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It is also used as a way to deflect valid criticism against those that have been successful.

That is true too but from the other side of the fence.

freshpopcorn · 06-08-2020 1:20pm

It various to be honest.
I don’t believe it’s an exclusive Irish thing tough.
Saying you dislike something isn’t begrudgery.
It’s a card that is over used by some people.

bitofabind · 06-08-2020 1:25pm

It's a fine balance. Without a healthy dose of cop-on-to-yourself begrudgery you've got absolute clowns and gob****es like Donald Trump being told they should run for President and then actually becoming the President of the United States.

On the other hand, as an Irish person living overseas it can be hard to come home and feel like I have to mute myself and my experiences in order to fit in because having made things work for myself abroad might offend someone in the room.

Meeoow · 06-08-2020 1:25pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It is also used as a way to deflect valid criticism against those that have been successful.

Exactly, what about people who got work promotions over more deserving workers cause they can ball lick or talk the talk. I see it more and more the last few years.

Snickers Man · 06-08-2020 1:34pm

I don't think Mrs Brown's Boys is remotely funny so Brendan O'Carroll shouldn't be allowed have so much money. Take it off him in taxes.

That's begrudgery.

I don't think Mrs Brown's Boys is remotely funny so I choose not to watch it. I don't give a rat's ass how much money he has or what he does with it.

That's simple exercising of one's own freedom of choice and opinion.

There's a difference.

(Option 2 is closer to my own opinion, BTW)

Ultrflat · 06-08-2020 1:47pm

It's well for ya!

EmmetSpiceland · 06-08-2020 2:08pm

Rothko wrote: »

You are a hero

Thank you but the real “heroes” are the frontline workers during this trying time. But, again, thank you.

AdrianBalboa · 06-08-2020 2:13pm

You find a lot of it in Ireland towards content creators on social media. Usually remarks commenting about their looks or accusations of being "vapid," like these commentators are out there curing cancer themselves.

osarusan · 06-08-2020 2:54pm

It's the art of never doing anything to improve your own situation, then moaning that anybody else who had any success achieved whatever they did only because of cronyism or some other such excuse, and your own failure is only down to not having such favouritism shown to you.

It's also the art of dismissing legitimate criticism as coming from the above sort of person.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 06-08-2020 2:55pm

I have to say, Ronan Keating’s breast cancer charity is great. I’ve received a lot of support from them down the years.

Aongus Von Bismarck · 06-08-2020 3:01pm

I'm an Irish expat, and can confirm that Irish begrudgery is a very real thing. I'm certainly no stranger to it from (former) friends and (current) family when I visit Ireland.

Most of it comes from people who have had very little success in their own life, so project their own feelings on failure onto people who have had success. I think this sometimes becomes amplified in echo chambers like this site - anyone who has the temerity to improve themselves, highlight their own success, or admit to enjoying the finer things in life, is open to being 'taken down a few pegs' by some anonymous buffoon.

I've also been a victim of this begrudgery when I visit my local town. "Fancy car, Aongus, are you selling drugs?", "you always thought you were better than us", "you can take a man from the stable, but you cannot take the stable from the man" are just some of the examples of this that I remember.

I sometimes wonder if it's some sort of internalised coping mechanism almost bred into the Irish over many generations due to poverty, religious repression, famine, and the yoke of the landlord class. Either way, it doesn't exist to any great extent in Germany, a country where personal success and wealth is lauded and admired.

The Raging Bile Duct · 06-08-2020 3:20pm

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

You find a lot of it in Ireland towards content creators on social media. Usually remarks commenting about their looks or accusations of being "vapid," like these commentators are out there curing cancer themselves.

So they should be immune from receiving criticism because they are not trying to cure cancer?

Kylta · 06-08-2020 4:01pm

It seems there is a very anorexic line between criticism/begrudery and slagging/insults

partyguinness · 06-08-2020 4:28pm

I was wondering if there are historical hang ups.

In other words to be a successful 'well to do' Catholic you had bow and scrape before the English gentry etc and basically lick ass and to have moved above your station you have sold out?

Just throwing it out there.

partyguinness · 06-08-2020 4:35pm

I have never understood the borderline hatred for Bono from some people.

'prick', 'a- hole' etc etc without any obvious reason that I can see.

It would be fine if was being criticised for something but no- just moronic insults.

Muahahaha · 06-08-2020 6:24pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It is also used as a way to deflect valid criticism against those that have been successful.

Snickers Man wrote: »

I don't think Mrs Brown's Boys is remotely funny so Brendan O'Carroll shouldn't be allowed have so much money. Take it off him in taxes.

That's begrudgery.

Thats fine but in online discourse the begrudgery trope is commonly used by those who might seek to defend o'Carroll or anyone wealthy/successful.

So if someone says they think he is a useless comedian and his jokes arent funny the retort is 'you're just a begrudger'. Its nothing more than deflection away from valid criticism of his crap comedy.

pgj2015 · 06-08-2020 8:28pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Oh this ****e again.

I'm a man and I love to hear about success stories irregardless of gender, it takes any amount of courage and determination to achieve in your particular field.

But if an individual in the public arena is just not that very talented or a clown then he/she is open to fair criticism because they put themselves in that public light in the first instance. :rolleyes:

Exactly, I always love to see Irish players score in the premier league,Irish boxers doing well etc. But I have never liked conor mcgregor, someone said I was a begrudger when i said i didnt like him, it was nothing to do with that, i just found him to be an unlikable character.

id say most Irish people are happy for Irish people who do well for themselves as long as that person doesn't act like a big shot, or become a west brit like graham norton or dara o brien or laura whitmore now.

marley1 · 06-08-2020 9:53pm

[QUOTE=I've also been a victim of this begrudgery when I visit my local town. "Fancy car, Aongus, are you selling drugs?"[/QUOTE]

:D:D this made me laugh

ilovemuffin · 07-08-2020 4:32pm

It's defined as:

Irish people hating to see anyone (especially in their local community) rise above their current status or paygrade and becoming 'self-made' or successful.

Errashareesh · 09-08-2020 2:08pm

partyguinness wrote: »

I have never understood the borderline hatred for Bono from some people.

'prick', 'a- hole' etc etc without any obvious reason that I can see.

It would be fine if was being criticised for something but no- just moronic insults.

Bono can be very sanctimonious though. There isn't the same ire directed at the other three U2 members. I agree the level of vitriol towards Bono is bizarre though. I find him annoying at times - don't have the urge to vent my spleen however. And people even say stuff like he can't sing, which is obviously false.

At a broader level, while begrudgery isn't just an Irish thing (and it bugs me when people say it is) I think there's more than a grain of truth in the assertion that Irish people can be particularly bad for it. Not towards all high profile people of course, and sometimes it's deserved, but sometimes there are public figures absolutely attacked because... reasons. Politicians especially - Leo Varadkar, Enda Kenny and Joan Burton being prime examples. I've never seen a thing explaining why they're so horrendous (I don't mean mere disagreement with them). Sometimes I think it's just an auto-pilot reaction rather than based on anything real.

What's the definition of Irish begrudgery

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