What's the definition of Irish begrudgery

partyguinness

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It is also used as a way to deflect valid criticism against those that have been successful.

That is true too but from the other side of the fence.

freshpopcorn

It various to be honest.
I don’t believe it’s an exclusive Irish thing tough.
Saying you dislike something isn’t begrudgery.
It’s a card that is over used by some people.

bitofabind

It's a fine balance. Without a healthy dose of cop-on-to-yourself begrudgery you've got absolute clowns and gob****es like Donald Trump being told they should run for President and then actually becoming the President of the United States.

On the other hand, as an Irish person living overseas it can be hard to come home and feel like I have to mute myself and my experiences in order to fit in because having made things work for myself abroad might offend someone in the room.

Meeoow

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It is also used as a way to deflect valid criticism against those that have been successful.

Exactly, what about people who got work promotions over more deserving workers cause they can ball lick or talk the talk. I see it more and more the last few years.

Snickers Man

I don't think Mrs Brown's Boys is remotely funny so Brendan O'Carroll shouldn't be allowed have so much money. Take it off him in taxes.

That's begrudgery.

I don't think Mrs Brown's Boys is remotely funny so I choose not to watch it. I don't give a rat's ass how much money he has or what he does with it.

That's simple exercising of one's own freedom of choice and opinion.

There's a difference.

(Option 2 is closer to my own opinion, BTW)

Ultrflat

It's well for ya!

EmmetSpiceland

Rothko wrote: »

You are a hero

Thank you but the real “heroes” are the frontline workers during this trying time. But, again, thank you.

AdrianBalboa

You find a lot of it in Ireland towards content creators on social media. Usually remarks commenting about their looks or accusations of being "vapid," like these commentators are out there curing cancer themselves.

osarusan

It's the art of never doing anything to improve your own situation, then moaning that anybody else who had any success achieved whatever they did only because of cronyism or some other such excuse, and your own failure is only down to not having such favouritism shown to you.

It's also the art of dismissing legitimate criticism as coming from the above sort of person.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

I have to say, Ronan Keating’s breast cancer charity is great. I’ve received a lot of support from them down the years.

Aongus Von Bismarck

I'm an Irish expat, and can confirm that Irish begrudgery is a very real thing. I'm certainly no stranger to it from (former) friends and (current) family when I visit Ireland.

Most of it comes from people who have had very little success in their own life, so project their own feelings on failure onto people who have had success. I think this sometimes becomes amplified in echo chambers like this site - anyone who has the temerity to improve themselves, highlight their own success, or admit to enjoying the finer things in life, is open to being 'taken down a few pegs' by some anonymous buffoon.

I've also been a victim of this begrudgery when I visit my local town. "Fancy car, Aongus, are you selling drugs?", "you always thought you were better than us", "you can take a man from the stable, but you cannot take the stable from the man" are just some of the examples of this that I remember.

I sometimes wonder if it's some sort of internalised coping mechanism almost bred into the Irish over many generations due to poverty, religious repression, famine, and the yoke of the landlord class. Either way, it doesn't exist to any great extent in Germany, a country where personal success and wealth is lauded and admired.

The Raging Bile Duct

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

You find a lot of it in Ireland towards content creators on social media. Usually remarks commenting about their looks or accusations of being "vapid," like these commentators are out there curing cancer themselves.

So they should be immune from receiving criticism because they are not trying to cure cancer?

Kylta

It seems there is a very anorexic line between criticism/begrudery and slagging/insults

partyguinness

I was wondering if there are historical hang ups.

In other words to be a successful 'well to do' Catholic you had bow and scrape before the English gentry etc and basically lick ass and to have moved above your station you have sold out?

Just throwing it out there.

partyguinness

I have never understood the borderline hatred for Bono from some people.

'prick', 'a- hole' etc etc without any obvious reason that I can see.

It would be fine if was being criticised for something but no- just moronic insults.

Muahahaha

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It is also used as a way to deflect valid criticism against those that have been successful.

Snickers Man wrote: »

I don't think Mrs Brown's Boys is remotely funny so Brendan O'Carroll shouldn't be allowed have so much money. Take it off him in taxes.

That's begrudgery.

Thats fine but in online discourse the begrudgery trope is commonly used by those who might seek to defend o'Carroll or anyone wealthy/successful.

So if someone says they think he is a useless comedian and his jokes arent funny the retort is 'you're just a begrudger'. Its nothing more than deflection away from valid criticism of his crap comedy.

pgj2015

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Oh this ****e again.

I'm a man and I love to hear about success stories irregardless of gender, it takes any amount of courage and determination to achieve in your particular field.

But if an individual in the public arena is just not that very talented or a clown then he/she is open to fair criticism because they put themselves in that public light in the first instance. :rolleyes:

Exactly, I always love to see Irish players score in the premier league,Irish boxers doing well etc. But I have never liked conor mcgregor, someone said I was a begrudger when i said i didnt like him, it was nothing to do with that, i just found him to be an unlikable character.

id say most Irish people are happy for Irish people who do well for themselves as long as that person doesn't act like a big shot, or become a west brit like graham norton or dara o brien or laura whitmore now.

marley1

[QUOTE=I've also been a victim of this begrudgery when I visit my local town. "Fancy car, Aongus, are you selling drugs?"[/QUOTE]
:D:D this made me laugh

ilovemuffin

It's defined as:

Irish people hating to see anyone (especially in their local community) rise above their current status or paygrade and becoming 'self-made' or successful.

Errashareesh

partyguinness wrote: »

I have never understood the borderline hatred for Bono from some people.

'prick', 'a- hole' etc etc without any obvious reason that I can see.

It would be fine if was being criticised for something but no- just moronic insults.

Bono can be very sanctimonious though. There isn't the same ire directed at the other three U2 members. I agree the level of vitriol towards Bono is bizarre though. I find him annoying at times - don't have the urge to vent my spleen however. And people even say stuff like he can't sing, which is obviously false.

At a broader level, while begrudgery isn't just an Irish thing (and it bugs me when people say it is) I think there's more than a grain of truth in the assertion that Irish people can be particularly bad for it. Not towards all high profile people of course, and sometimes it's deserved, but sometimes there are public figures absolutely attacked because... reasons. Politicians especially - Leo Varadkar, Enda Kenny and Joan Burton being prime examples. I've never seen a thing explaining why they're so horrendous (I don't mean mere disagreement with them). Sometimes I think it's just an auto-pilot reaction rather than based on anything real.

EmmetSpiceland

Errashareesh wrote: »

At a broader level, while begrudgery isn't just an Irish thing (and it bugs me when people say it is) I think there's more than a grain of truth in the assertion that Irish people can be particularly bad for it.

Are the American’s not “famed” for seeing the successful person, in the big house with the nice car, and thinking ‘if I work hard that could be me’ whereas we, Irish, are known for begrudging their success either by belittling how they’ve “attained” it or by personally attacking them.

It’s not an attractive “trait” but one we can overcome once we accept we engage in it. The inability to take criticism would be another, ugly, trait of ours.

Hopefully, in the future, these will fall by the “wayside”. With higher levels of immigration that may not be too far away.

pgj2015

ilovemuffin wrote: »

It's defined as:

Irish people hating to see anyone (especially in their local community) rise above their current status or paygrade and becoming 'self-made' or successful.

I dont think that is true, it might be true if the person acts like a big shot, blowing about how great they are or the worst ones are the ones who leave Ireland and move to the UK/America, then run down the Country that raised them and try to become British/american.

SlowMotion321

partyguinness wrote: »

I have never understood the borderline hatred for Bono from some people.

'prick', 'a- hole' etc etc without any obvious reason that I can see.

It would be fine if was being criticised for something but no- just moronic insults.

Because he is a sanctimonious, pontificating tax dodger?

Edgware

Hugh Leonards begrudgery story.
Dalkey local. "Hello Hugh, Well done. I see the film of your book is on in the Savoy cinema"

Hugh " Indeed thats right"

Dalkey Local " Is is Savoy 4 its on in"

Hugh. " Thats correct"

Dalkey Local " Isn't Savoy 4 the small cinema. They mustnt be expecting too many to go to it."