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M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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Comments

  • #3502
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    serfboard wrote: »
    The WDR solution is quite simple - additional Bus Lanes both ways and replace the roundabouts with traffic lights that can be changed by the buses - i.e. a QBC.

    Ya agree and so do the Council, room for it, not that expensive either. It will be done. Probably could be done for around 15million. Council had plans for same back in 2010 costed at 10million. It is a fundamental part of there transportation corridor / spine that goes through City East to West/West to East.


  • #3503
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    remfan wrote: »
    Perhaps you don't live in Galway, if you did you would realise that:

    a) a significant number of people who live on the West of the Corrib, work on the East of the river (in Parkmore etc.)
    b) a huge number (>25,000) of people work in and attend both NUIG and UCGH (and travel from both East and West to get there)
    c) more and more houses etc. are being built in the Knocknacarra area, and more are planned

    Have you ever sat in the endless traffic jams that start at the Tuam Road and end out past end of the WDR?
    I wonder how much pollution is caused by these 1000's or car engines idling in this traffic, most week days.

    If that is 3% then we must have a population close to London.

    Well that's the reality of the situation.

    The jams you are seeing won't be fixed by the 'bypass'. If anything, the bypass will make them worse.

    A proper bypass (Barna, N59, Tuam Rd, skip Ballybrit, N6) that's commensurate to actual traffic volumes bypassing the city and with limited access junctions would be ideal. You wouldn't save much but you'd stop Galway becoming Los Angeles without the weather.


  • #3504
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Just posted on the Tribune website
    https://connachttribune.ie/decision-on-proposal-for-galway-city-ring-road-pushed-back-to-june/


  • #3505
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Just posted on the Tribune website
    https://connachttribune.ie/decision-on-proposal-for-galway-city-ring-road-pushed-back-to-june/
    marno21 wrote: »
    I would be shocked if there was a decision on this by April. Mid summer at the earliest.

    You called it marno


  • #3506
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,868 ✭✭✭SeanW


    riddlinrussell wrote:
    Considering the current N6 as a 'city street' is part of the problem, that road should have been sufficient as a ring road, but was simply taken as an opportunity for more sprawl, given that 'through travel' appears to be a minimum of all traffic on that route (3%) the need to bypass the city again doesn't have strong arguments.
    Again? that would assume it was ever bypassed to begin with. All that was ever built was a haphazard mélange of roads cobbled together on the cheap, less than 1 mile from Eyre Square. How else do you explain the absurd routing along the Headford Road. This may have been not terrible in 1984 when Ireland was an agricultural backwater but things have changed a little in the intervening years. And though planning in Galway might not have been great, I suspect that with less than a mile between Eyre Square and the Quincentennial Bridge, the city was always going to outgrow its so-called "bypass" eventually.
    cgcsb wrote: »
    There are no significant settlements, heavy industry or large trip generators west of Galway City though. It would be different story if you were talking about Athlone. The modelling in the GTS proved this, only 3% of traffic was bypassing the city. Resolving dealys for the 97% of journeys is a higher priority and that's being done for €0.2bn, so building a €1bn bypass for 3% of the traffic in the city doesn't make any sense. Journey times for that 3% of journeys will improve when busconnects removes a significant % of the 97% of car trips.
    Firstly, the supposed remoteness of everything West of the Corrib has little effect, it is common across Europe for cities supposedly on the road to not much of anything to have bypasses, including recent builds. Secondly, I highly doubt that BusConnects on its own will speed everything up, because on the current route there are places where the only sensible way to provide a bus lane would be to remove a traffic lane from a heavily congested street/road hybrid. That's guaranteed to slow things down unless there is an immediate and very extreme modal shift.
    monument wrote: »
    Exactly which part of the N6, N59, R338, or the Western Distributor Road do you think is street-like?
    Firstly, there is the section of the N6 that goes North-South down the Headford Road. It's a bad street, IMO but it has some features of a street. Private houses accessing it directly. Entrances to housing estates. A petrol station and hotel, a shopping centre and a large supermarket. It's a destination in and of itself, but unfortunately is also serving as a key road link. All East-West traffic is signed along it and it also has to serve a lot of North-South travel as well. It's basically a textbook "stroad." Secondly there's the N6 junction with Newcastle Road. The latter is clearly a street environment with houses fronting directly onto it, and the N6 bisects that environment. Not ideal IMHO and it doesn't benefit anyone to have traffic forced through these places.


  • #3507
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SeanW wrote: »
    Secondly, I highly doubt that BusConnects on its own will speed everything up, because on the current route there are places where the only sensible way to provide a bus lane would be to remove a traffic lane from a heavily congested street/road hybrid. That's guaranteed to slow things down unless there is an immediate and very extreme modal shift.

    Umm, I don't want to upset you, but thats exactly whats happening, check out the cross city link, shown below as the blue line

    549614.jpg


  • #3508
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,868 ✭✭✭SeanW


    That looks like they're planning a bus lane through the city centre, which sounds fair enough. But on the N6 it would be a different story.


  • #3509
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SeanW wrote: »
    That looks like they're planning a bus lane through the city centre, which sounds fair enough. But on the N6 it would be a different story.

    Yup, and removing access to private cars from a large amount of the center too

    As for the N6, why would they put a bus lane on that, nobody lives or works on most of it


  • #3510
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,868 ✭✭✭SeanW


    The Headford Road section seems like a choke point for a lot of things. That's why I call into question the idea that the city was ever bypassed properly to begin with.


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  • #3511
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SeanW wrote: »
    The Headford Road section seems like a choke point for a lot of things.

    The infrastructure is already in place for bus priority at the junction on the QCB end, the same will be done at the other end. This is the same as what has been added to the Tuam Rd junction with the N6. Basically, where its not possible to have a bus lane, they will have a bus only section at the junction and a priority green light to allow the bus to get through the junction first after a red.

    None of this is switched on yet though but forms part of the building blocks for the whole network


  • #3512
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Just posted on the Tribune website
    https://connachttribune.ie/decision-on-proposal-for-galway-city-ring-road-pushed-back-to-june/

    On RnaG this morning Adhmaidin - they had a date of the 25 June 2021 for ABP decision.


  • #3513
    Limerick74
    Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Limerick74


    Minister urges focus on Galway bus services ahead of new road projects
    https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0420/1211040-galway-transport/


  • #3514
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,868 ✭✭✭SeanW


    That makes sense, so long as it's "ahead of" and not "instead of".


  • #3515
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Limerick74 wrote: »
    Minister urges focus on Galway bus services ahead of new road projects
    https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0420/1211040-galway-transport/


    Apparently the NTA, Galway councils and the govt have mastered the ability to bend time when it comes to the ring road

    According to that article "It is expected that, were planning to be granted, it would take between 12 and 18 months to finish the project."


  • #3516
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,115 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Apparently the NTA, Galway councils and the govt have mastered the ability to bend time when it comes to the ring road

    According to that article "It is expected that, were planning to be granted, it would take between 12 and 18 months to start the project."

    FYP


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  • #3517
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    timmyntc wrote: »
    FYP

    Yeah, even that is wildly optimistic

    If permission were granted in June and there was miraculously no appeals, it would still be several years before they would even start (CPOs, Prep work, tendering etc)


  • #3518
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yeah, even that is wildly optimistic

    If permission were granted in June and there was miraculously no appeals, it would still be several years before they would even start (CPOs, Prep work, tendering etc)

    Why is that? Lack of capacity/funding, or general slowness of process?


  • #3519
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Why is that? Lack of capacity/funding, or general slowness of process?

    Why is complicated to answer, at least from what little I know, however looking at examples from other projects you can see, for example, that the CPO process can be dogged with legal challenges that can go on for ages.

    Another example is the Prep work, between the classification of what it entails, the boundary markings, the costings, the application for funding, the granting of funding, the tendering, the awarding, and finally the completion of it, that can take a year or two if not more.

    Overall, its not a system designed for speed


  • #3520
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Apparently the NTA, Galway councils and the govt have mastered the ability to bend time when it comes to the ring road

    According to that article "It is expected that, were planning to be granted, it would take between 12 and 18 months for the High Court to hear the first objection."


    FYP even better :D


  • #3521
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Came across this little vid and I think it perfectly covers the case for the ring road and the effect it will have

    https://twitter.com/BrentToderian/status/1207395329236013056?s=20


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  • #3522
    remfan
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭remfan


    We don't need wider roads, we just need one decent road that will take the traffic away from the city. Then more bus, cycle lanes etc. can be added in the center.
    As I don't expect Galway's population to get past 120K in the next 30 years, a properly built bypass will more than serve the needs of the city over that time frame.

    Of course we can all spend hours every weekday for the next 30 years in traffic jams from Doughiska to Barna, cars belching out fumes etc. as they move at 5K an hour. I know this is as I have worked on the East of the city for the past 25 years and live in the west of the city. I have experienced it first hand. An already the traffic is building and we are not even fully out of the lockdown.

    Galway is the only city/town of any size in Ireland that is not bypassed. And when you see the bridges built as part of the Waterford and New Ross bypasses you can see that when done properly will not be the horrible eyesore that some portray.


  • #3523
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,115 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    remfan wrote: »
    We don't need wider roads, we just need one decent road that will take the traffic away from the city. Then more bus, cycle lanes etc. can be added in the center.
    As I don't expect Galway's population to get past 120K in the next 30 years, a properly built bypass will more than serve the needs of the city over that time frame.

    Of course we can all spend hours every weekday for the next 30 years in traffic jams from Doughiska to Barna, cars belching out fumes etc. as they move at 5K an hour. I know this is as I have worked on the East of the city for the past 25 years and live in the west of the city. I have experienced it first hand. An already the traffic is building and we are not even fully out of the lockdown.

    Galway is the only city/town of any size in Ireland that is not bypassed. And when you see the bridges built as part of the Waterford and New Ross bypasses you can see that when done properly will not be the horrible eyesore that some portray.

    I would agree, but the proposed is not a bypass but a ring road. It's too close to the city, and is being built with intent to "unlock" further development lands in the city, that will now have a fancy ring road going right by them. It won't solve any traffic problems because of this.


  • #3524
    KrisW1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    There are two exits on the Waterford Bypass, one on either side of the city (the second is actually far outside the city, in Co. Kilkenny, but whatever). That is a bypass: it exists to serve traffic that does not need to enter the city.

    If the Galway road was like the Waterford one, I’d be all for it. As it is planned, I have serious reservations. We should learn from previous mistakes, not repeat them. The N6 Galway scheme, as planned, is not a bypass. It has multiple, closely-spaced junctions to serve neighbourhood traffic. It's a Collector-Distributor road masquerading as a bypass, like Cork's N40, and like Cork’s N40, it will become an unholy mess that creates congestion, and within a decade much more money will have to be spent to widen the road to and reduce the number of junctions (as happened with Cork).


  • #3525
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Came across this little vid and I think it perfectly covers the case for the ring road and the effect it will have

    https://twitter.com/BrentToderian/status/1207395329236013056?s=20
    Sorry, but that's a poor comparison. Many cities, especially in North America, have urban freeways designed to carry traffic to, or through, downtown areas. The US being a prime example. These are all congested at peak times, and attempts to decongest them by widening them, adding additional lanes, adding longer slips etc fails. The M50 is an example of this, but the M50 shouldn't have been built with 2 lanes in the first place when it links together six two lane motorways.

    The Galway Ring Road provides a bypass of Galway. There is considerable scope for debate about how many and where the junctions should be, but in practice its a road to remove traffic from the city roads that has no business being there. Galway has no bypass at present. It has a reasonably decent dual carriageway from Doughiska to Ballybrit, which becomes an inner relief road, dumps traffic on the Headford Road, forces all that traffic to share an urban road that has multiples accesses to retail outlets, carries the traffic over a nice wide bridge before dumping it into a dense residential area which also has a major hospital and a university. Calling the section of road through Terryland a bypass is laughable.

    The aim of the Galway City Ring Road is to provide a high quality route that separates traffic using the national road network around Galway from city traffic and the city itself. It doesn't go near, nor aim to provide access to the city centre. The debates about planning, sprawl, car dependent development are a separate matter that need to be dealt with using the planning system. This road is in no way comparable to urban freeways or the like which are a different type of problem. With the exception of the Dublin Port Tunnel and the N27 Cork South City Link Road, we have no urban high quality access routes in this country.


  • #3526
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    marno21 wrote: »
    Sorry, but that's a poor comparison. Many cities, especially in North America, have urban freeways designed to carry traffic to, or through, downtown areas. The US being a prime example. These are all congested at peak times, and attempts to decongest them by widening them, adding additional lanes, adding longer slips etc fails. The M50 is an example of this, but the M50 shouldn't have been built with 2 lanes in the first place when it links together six two lane motorways.

    The Galway Ring Road provides a bypass of Galway. There is considerable scope for debate about how many and where the junctions should be, but in practice its a road to remove traffic from the city roads that has no business being there. Galway has no bypass at present. It has a reasonably decent dual carriageway from Doughiska to Ballybrit, which becomes an inner relief road, dumps traffic on the Headford Road, forces all that traffic to share an urban road that has multiples accesses to retail outlets, carries the traffic over a nice wide bridge before dumping it into a dense residential area which also has a major hospital and a university. Calling the section of road through Terryland a bypass is laughable.

    The aim of the Galway City Ring Road is to provide a high quality route that separates traffic using the national road network around Galway from city traffic and the city itself. It doesn't go near, nor aim to provide access to the city centre. The debates about planning, sprawl, car dependent development are a separate matter that need to be dealt with using the planning system. This road is in no way comparable to urban freeways or the like which are a different type of problem. With the exception of the Dublin Port Tunnel and the N27 Cork South City Link Road, we have no urban high quality access routes in this country.

    Only 3% of all road traffic in Galway match the needs you have laid out which is why it has been designed as a distributor road and not a bypass. They even stopped calling it a bypass because it was obvious to all that it wasn't one


  • #3527
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Only 3% of all road traffic in Galway match the needs you have laid out which is why it has been designed as a distributor road and not a bypass. They even stopped calling it a bypass because it was obvious to all that it wasn't one
    That's Barna -> Doughiska though. There's a similar level of traffic going M1 -> M11 in Dublin. It doesn't account for N59 -> M6, N84 -> M6, N83 -> N59/R336 etc.

    I do agree that when this is built it needs to be protected to stop it becoming a mess. That should be a pre-requisite condition of planning. Another pre-requisite condition of planning should be that road space on the existing N6 is given over before this opens. The planning system should be robust at dealing with issues that we can foresee ourselves on the forum.


  • #3528
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    marno21 wrote: »
    That's Barna -> Doughiska though. There's a similar level of traffic going M1 -> M11 in Dublin. It doesn't account for N59 -> M6, N84 -> M6, N83 -> N59/R336 etc.

    No thats external Galway city to external Galway city crossing the river. 3% was the grand total. More info on this covered in this post
    marno21 wrote: »
    I do agree that when this is built it needs to be protected to stop it becoming a mess.

    The route has been designed to open up land for development, not prevent it
    marno21 wrote: »
    Another pre-requisite condition of planning should be that road space on the existing N6 is given over before this opens.

    No plans anywhere for that. The existing N6 will remain as-is post ring road.
    marno21 wrote: »
    The planning system should be robust at dealing with issues that we can foresee ourselves on the forum.

    The Irish planning system?

    Given all that you know from your many years on this forum, do you believe it is "robust at dealing with issues that we can foresee ourselves on the forum".


  • #3529
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    marno21 wrote: »
    That's Barna -> Doughiska though. There's a similar level of traffic going M1 -> M11 in Dublin. It doesn't account for N59 -> M6, N84 -> M6, N83 -> N59/R336 etc.

    I do agree that when this is built it needs to be protected to stop it becoming a mess. That should be a pre-requisite condition of planning. Another pre-requisite condition of planning should be that road space on the existing N6 is given over before this opens. The planning system should be robust at dealing with issues that we can foresee ourselves on the forum.

    It will be at least a decade before this road is built. And no real plans to put PT or P&R infrastructure in place.

    The current Botha na dTreabh road could be adapted to include bus and cycle lanes with three or four junctions needing serious work. If all junctions were made free flow much of the problems from Terryland to the Coolagh Roundabout (which should also be free flow) could be solved.

    Terryland to Knocknacarra is a different problem that requires substantial work, including a new bridge. The current QCB has no PT crossing it.


  • #3530
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    It will be at least a decade before this road is built. And no real plans to put PT or P&R infrastructure in place.

    Most likely. The PT/P&R is a job for the NTA/Galway Council though rather than TII. TII will be handing the N6 to GCC after this project is done.

    Sam Russell wrote: »
    The current Botha na dTreabh road could be adapted to include bus and cycle lanes with three or four junctions needing serious work. If all junctions were made free flow much of the problems from Terryland to the Coolagh Roundabout (which should also be free flow) could be solved.

    By removing a general traffic lane in either direction?

    There is no scope to make any of the junctions freeflow with the exception of the Coolagh roundabout. All of the other junctions east of Terryland have development up to the road boundaries on every corner of the junction, and the 2 on the Headford Rd are 90 degree turns. The cost of CPOing the land alone would make the project much more expensive than the Ring Road with many less benefits

    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Terryland to Knocknacarra is a different problem that requires substantial work, including a new bridge. The current QCB has no PT crossing it.

    A new bridge there would require access roads and there's nowhere to put them without more large scale demoliton.


  • #3531
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No thats external Galway city to external Galway city crossing the river. 3% was the grand total. More info on this covered in this post

    The route has been designed to open up land for development, not prevent it

    No plans anywhere for that. The existing N6 will remain as-is post ring road.

    Given all that you know from your many years on this forum, do you believe it is "robust at dealing with issues that we can foresee ourselves on the forum".

    My apologies, you clearly have more of the figures involved than I do.

    However, there is scope for there to be PT requirements in conjunction with the Ring Road. And for there to be planning conditions around car based development.

    The last of the full city bypasses to go through planning was Limerick/Waterford in the early 2000s and the Cork and Dublin routes (and indeed Limerick too) were built in phases in the 90s and early 00s. We have no precedent for a situation like this which gives scope for new thinking.


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  • #3532
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    marno21 wrote: »
    Most likely. The PT/P&R is a job for the NTA/Galway Council though rather than TII. TII will be handing the N6 to GCC after this project is done.




    By removing a general traffic lane in either direction?

    There is plenty of space outside the few junctions. Driving on the road, and looking at google maps, it is only at the junctions that there would be problems. That is just as true for the bypass.
    There is no scope to make any of the junctions freeflow with the exception of the Coolagh roundabout. All of the other junctions east of Terryland have development up to the road boundaries on every corner of the junction, and the 2 on the Headford Rd are 90 degree turns. The cost of CPOing the land alone would make the project much more expensive than the Ring Road with many less benefits
    Well, the Tuam Rd and Monivea junctions could take it but it might be tight. Raising the main road might be required.
    A new bridge there would require access roads and there's nowhere to put them without more large scale demoliton.

    Yes, that is where the problem lies. Dunnes stores to past the hospital.

    Look, if it will be a decade before it opens, they should concentrate on public transport and cycling infrastructure which can be delivered in a very short time. Just look at how fast the DCC moved to get things done during the Covid shutdown.


  • #3533
    remfan
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭remfan


    The section East of the Corrib does not open any new land up, there are 2 junctions Parkmore/Ballybrit (to the industrial/business parks) and the Headford Road
    West of the river there is a junction for the N59. After that there are a number of junctions however there are already many smaller roads that provide access for any developers wishing to build, the bypass will not change this. The route cannot go further north as we have the Lake and the SAC. So it has to go where it currently designed to go. As for the comparison with Waterford, it is bypassed to the north and also has the new ring road right around the south of the city, with lots of junctions.


  • #3534
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,868 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Look, if it will be a decade before it opens, they should concentrate on public transport and cycling infrastructure which can be delivered in a very short time. Just look at how fast the DCC moved to get things done during the Covid shutdown.
    Isn't that what's being proposed with the Galways BusConnects?


  • #3535
    remfan
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭remfan


    The Galway City Council online planning tool shows the land take quite clearly. It is clear from this that very little land would be opened for development, land that isn't already accessible by poorer quality roads, and also how the route is staying very close to the built up areas of the city, and constrained by the lake, and some very wet bog land in the Barna area. If the route went any further north it would clearly have potential to open significantly more land for developers.


  • #3536
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    "Not allowing sprawl" is a difficult sell. The whole point of infrastructure is to provide transportation service. Imagine opening a railway line then not serving communities with stations. The London Greenbelt is widely considered to be one of the main reasons for the city's low house completion rates.


  • #3537
    KrisW1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Sprawl is not “communities”, though. A community has meeting places (shops, pubs, churches, greens, schools, etc). Urban sprawl is the death of communities: these low density area offers nothing to young people, so as soon as children are grown, they’re gone. You’re never “from” places like this, you just grow up there.

    The benefit of rail is that it encourages densification: a good rail service makes people buy or build close to the stations. That higher density increases footfall and makes other businesses and social amenities viable there too.


  • #3538
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,115 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    remfan wrote: »
    The Galway City Council online planning tool shows the land take quite clearly. It is clear from this that very little land would be opened for development, land that isn't already accessible by poorer quality roads, and also how the route is staying very close to the built up areas of the city, and constrained by the lake, and some very wet bog land in the Barna area. If the route went any further north it would clearly have potential to open significantly more land for developers.

    Any land either side of the ring road would become high value since it now has "good" transport links and would end up developed. Especially north of the ring road. The city will continue to sprawl outwards until we need another "bypass" that goes even further away.


  • #3539
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Any land either side of the ring road would become high value since it now has "good" transport links and would end up developed. Especially north of the ring road. The city will continue to sprawl outwards until we need another "bypass" that goes even further away.

    North of the ring road is water.


  • #3540
    KrisW1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    North-west isn't


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  • #3541
    zell12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,001 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    To remind that Taoiseach admitted in 2018 that the ring road was to open up land for development
    https://twitter.com/cosaingalway/status/984543819160047621?s=20


  • #3542
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,115 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    KrisW1001 wrote: »
    North-west isn't

    And neither is north east - north side of the entire road is more land than water tbh


  • #3543
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1397185775217827845?s=21


  • #3544
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    marno21 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1397185775217827845?s=21

    So that would be a NO then.


  • #3545
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Eamon will never sign this off, its absolute anathema to the Greens. Maybe the next government will, by the time it gets to a ministerial decision it'll be the government after next probably. Waiting for the judicial reviews already.


  • #3546
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,039 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    Eamon will never sign this off

    I doubt he will have to worry about that, more likely either ABP kill it in its tracks or overload it with conditions that it isn't viable. Stupid plan to begin with.


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  • #3547
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    One of two things will happen, neither of which will require him to do anything with the ring road

    Either

    They approve it, it'll end up in court

    Result: He doesn't have to worry about it and can tell GCC to get to implementing more active travel measures in the interim.

    Galway city will get bus connects, some bike infrastructure and a few bits of permeability, basically little beyond what is in the GTS at the moment but there might be some small additions.

    They reject it

    Result: He doesn't have to worry about it and tells GCC their only option is implementing a full suite of active travel measures across the board.

    Galway city will get additional bus lanes, fully segregated bike lanes on all arterial routes, enhanced permeability, a full spread of bike share stations all across the city etc etc etc

    I know which I'd prefer and which would be better for Galway in the long term


  • #3548
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Deleted User wrote: »
    One of two things will happen, neither of which will require him to do anything with the ring road

    Either

    They approve it, it'll end up in court

    Result: He doesn't have to worry about it and can tell GCC to get to implementing more active travel measures in the interim.

    Galway city will get bus connects, some bike infrastructure and a few bits of permeability, basically little beyond what is in the GTS at the moment but there might be some small additions.

    They reject it

    Result: He doesn't have to worry about it and tells GCC their only option is implementing a full suite of active travel measures across the board.

    Galway city will get additional bus lanes, fully segregated bike lanes on all arterial routes, enhanced permeability, a full spread of bike share stations all across the city etc etc etc

    I know which I'd prefer and which would be better for Galway in the long term
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    This is exactly how it will play out.
    He has nothing to worry about at all for his term as Minister in this Government in relation to this part of the Council's "GTS".


  • #3549
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The cost of the ring road is definitely going to be more than the 650 million previously quoted and possibly up to 1 billion

    https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/122021/city-ring-road-likely-to-cost-1-billion-by-the-time-it-is-eventually-built-td-claims?utm_source=more&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=readmore

    All this for a road that won't fix the problem, bonkers stuff, it really is

    A full network of high frequency buses and a full network of protected bike lanes would achieve more for the city for a fraction of the cost and could be implemented in half the time.


  • #3550
    KrisW1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    The people who cause the traffic congestion wouldn't be seen dead on a bus.


  • #3551
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,754 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    KrisW1001 wrote: »
    The people who cause the traffic congestion wouldn't be seen dead on a bus.

    As long as the public transport system operates effectively then people who chose to sit in traffic aren't a problem per say, until you get into emissions. An emissions based congestion charge in cities will probably be brought in at some stage.


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