M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

L1011 · 16-02-2021 12:01am

My employers pool cars are absolutely and utterly pool. They're heavily branded, which probably reduces anyones desires to use them. I took one home on Friday night as I had to be in at a time when the Saturday service public transit would have been rather difficult this morning and dumped it back in the basement when I got in.

Offer a BIK reduction for having a vehicle being a mobile billboard and people will likely be a lot less willing to use them!

DumbBrunette · 05-04-2021 10:57am

Quite a detailed and reasonably balanced 'investigation' piece by thejournal.ie below

The N6 ring road: Solution or dead end for Galway congestion crisis?

https://jrnl.ie/5397513

It says decision is due by the end of the month.

steeler j · 05-04-2021 3:24pm

DumbBrunette wrote: »

Quite a detailed and reasonably balanced 'investigation' piece by thejournal.ie below

The N6 ring road: Solution or dead end for Galway congestion crisis?

https://jrnl.ie/5397513

It says decision is due by the end of the month.

Interesting read ,it seems the Galway city's traffic problem is bad planning for decades

05-04-2021 7:19pm

I would be very very wary of anything “noteworthy” produce. They seek independent funding in advance of their articles from vested interests and their previous publications stank of one sided favouritism.

They shilled boards users for ages as sponsored posts but gave up once posters saw through them

Check out their article on the bridge in Kilkenny, it couldn’t have been clearer which side funded it.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058023158/2/#post112047068

Disgraceful stuff actually, is this what their journalists aspire to?

donvito99 · 06-04-2021 7:42pm

Mayo_fan wrote: »

I would be very very wary of anything “noteworthy” produce. They seek independent funding in advance of their articles from vested interests and their previous publications stank of one sided favouritism.

They shilled boards users for ages as sponsored posts but gave up once posters saw through them

Check out their article on the bridge in Kilkenny, it couldn’t have been clearer which side funded it.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058023158/2/#post112047068

Disgraceful stuff actually, is this what their journalists aspire to?

Hardly a disgrace. The Journal, in basically crowd funding this article, is arguably better placed than the likes of the local papers whose revenue is supported by advertsiing, a fair amount from the local authority I'd imagine.

This is going to be a billion euro plus project and yet...

An Environmental Impact Assessment report outlined that 35% of total car trips into and around Galway City cross the River Corrib.

Of these trips, around 3% are bypass traffic. Around 40% of total trips remain on the same side of the city as they started, so they’re not trying to get from one side of the city to the other.

One-fifth – 20% – of journeys stay within the city zone, but cross the River Corrib from one side of the city to the other.

The figures are based on analysis of private car trips from or through Galway City in 2012.

cgcsb · 07-04-2021 11:02am

donvito99 wrote: »

Hardly a disgrace. The Journal, in basically crowd funding this article, is arguably better placed than the likes of the local papers whose revenue is supported by advertsiing, a fair amount from the local authority I'd imagine.

This is going to be a billion euro plus project and yet...

An Environmental Impact Assessment report outlined that 35% of total car trips into and around Galway City cross the River Corrib.

Of these trips, around 3% are bypass traffic. Around 40% of total trips remain on the same side of the city as they started, so they’re not trying to get from one side of the city to the other.

One-fifth – 20% – of journeys stay within the city zone, but cross the River Corrib from one side of the city to the other.

The figures are based on analysis of private car trips from or through Galway City in 2012.

And one fifth of that cost, €200m can deliver Bus Connects and dramatically improve 97% of trips, at basically no environmental cost or destruction of homes/businesses. While not encouraging greater car use.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/09343007-busconnects-galway/#:~:text=Galway%20BusConnects%20(Estimated%20cost%20%E2%82%AC,%2Dperforming%20cross%2Dcity%20routes.

You'd wonder even if planning is granted why such a policy of high spend for effectively a negative return would be undertaken.

SeanW · 08-04-2021 1:01pm

And nobody sees a problem with the fact that there's no way currently to get from most of the rest of Ireland to any point West of the Corrib without going through city streets? Or that similar cities in Europe have alternative routes for through travel even when the city is on the road to not much of anything?

xckjoo · 08-04-2021 1:14pm

SeanW wrote: »

And nobody sees a problem with the fact that there's no way currently to get from most of the rest of Ireland to any point West of the Corrib without going through city streets? Or that similar cities in Europe have alternative routes for through travel even when the city is on the road to not much of anything?

Not really. There doesn't seem to be much demand for it. The Quincentenial was that route once upon a time but the city has expanded. I still wouldn't classify those roads as being city steets but lets not get too pedantic. But we'll just see the same thing happen to the M6 if it's built.

There's also routes north of the lake. Plenty of people use those.

riddlinrussell · 08-04-2021 1:15pm

SeanW wrote: »

And nobody sees a problem with the fact that there's no way currently to get from most of the rest of Ireland to any point West of the Corrib without going through city streets? Or that similar cities in Europe have alternative routes for through travel even when the city is on the road to not much of anything?

Considering the current N6 as a 'city street' is part of the problem, that road should have been sufficient as a ring road, but was simply taken as an opportunity for more sprawl, given that 'through travel' appears to be a minimum of all traffic on that route (3%) the need to bypass the city again doesn't have strong arguments.

The city needs effective distribution of people from homes to places of work. Planners are agonizingly slowly waking up to the fact that 'distributor roads' like the current N6 dont really do the job, at least not on their own. Reform of planning to put homes and businesses in easy walking/cycling commute distance, making longer cycle/walking commutes more doable (End to end of Galway should be between 30 minutes and an hour by bike with good routes?) and massively overhauling public transit in the city are going to be the way to get some people out of their cars, reducing the need for another road.

The difference in cost between a big ticket road and rolling out a good quality city cycling network is often an order of magnitude, and where it isn't the scale of what can be achieved is far greater with one than the other.

In Belfast the whole cycling network was costed as the same price as the York Street Interchange, a single motorway junction. Far more people, cyclists, pedestrians AND drivers would benefit from the cycling network than the YSI will benefit, for a multitude more journey types and routes.

cgcsb · 08-04-2021 1:17pm

SeanW wrote: »

And nobody sees a problem with the fact that there's no way currently to get from most of the rest of Ireland to any point West of the Corrib without going through city streets? Or that similar cities in Europe have alternative routes for through travel even when the city is on the road to not much of anything?

There are no significant settlements, heavy industry or large trip generators west of Galway City though. It would be different story if you were talking about Athlone. The modelling in the GTS proved this, only 3% of traffic was bypassing the city. Resolving dealys for the 97% of journeys is a higher priority and that's being done for €0.2bn, so building a €1bn bypass for 3% of the traffic in the city doesn't make any sense. Journey times for that 3% of journeys will improve when busconnects removes a significant % of the 97% of car trips.

what_traffic · 08-04-2021 2:02pm

xckjoo wrote: »

Not really. There doesn't seem to be much demand for it. The Quincentenial was that route once upon a time but the city has expanded. I still wouldn't classify those roads as being city steets but lets not get too pedantic.

I would absolutely none of the existing N6 that is in the City Boundary is on a what one would call a street.

monument · 08-04-2021 2:38pm

SeanW wrote: »

And nobody sees a problem with the fact that there's no way currently to get from most of the rest of Ireland to any point West of the Corrib without going through city streets? Or that similar cities in Europe have alternative routes for through travel even when the city is on the road to not much of anything?

Exactly which part of the N6, N59, R338, or the Western Distributor Road do you think is street-like?

remfan · 08-04-2021 3:35pm

I live on the Clybaun Road, the western distributor road is now effectively a street, the traffic volumes, from 7-9.30 AM, around school finishing time and in the evenings from 5PM to 7PM can be quite bad. The last few sites that are not built on along the entire route are already under development, or earmarked for development. New estate on the junction with Ballymoneen road, new pub/restaurant on the Clybaun road junction, new Lidl adjacent to Aldi, new apartment development to the east of Aldi etc. Build the bypass asap, Galway is the only city or town of any size in Ireland that is not bypassed. The N6 is just now another road through the town.

xckjoo · 08-04-2021 4:06pm

remfan wrote: »

I live on the Clybaun Road, the western distributor road is now effectively a street, the traffic volumes, from 7-9.30 AM, around school finishing time and in the evenings from 5PM to 7PM can be quite bad. The last few sites that are not built on along the entire route are already under development, or earmarked for development. New estate on the junction with Ballymoneen road, new pub/restaurant on the Clybaun road junction, new Lidl adjacent to Aldi, new apartment development to the east of Aldi etc. Build the bypass asap, Galway is the only city or town of any size in Ireland that is not bypassed. The N6 is just now another road through the town.

Eh. None of that makes them like city roads. It just makes them busy and overused.

It's not a bypass either (see thread title). Galway is already bypassed to the east with the M18. Nobody traveling from one major population centre to another has to go anywhere near Galway City if they don't want to.

What we need is a way for people that live on one side of the city to get to work on the other that isn't a car.

what_traffic · 08-04-2021 4:10pm

remfan wrote: »

I live on the Clybaun Road, the western distributor road is now effectively a street, the traffic volumes, from 7-9.30 AM, around school finishing time and in the evenings from 5PM to 7PM can be quite bad.

Ah go away. Do you know what a street actually looks like?
The Western Distributor Road (WDR) is one of the few named roads in Galway City that defines exactly what its purpose is in its name. It ain't no street.

3 different sections of it
https://goo.gl/maps/1GrhjKftYc3jARLu8
https://goo.gl/maps/Vg5hvQxJcdhRPg3t7
https://goo.gl/maps/k4oW8eVZLb1Uf5rz9

riddlinrussell · 08-04-2021 4:16pm

remfan wrote: »

I live on the Clybaun Road, the western distributor road is now effectively a street, the traffic volumes, from 7-9.30 AM, around school finishing time and in the evenings from 5PM to 7PM can be quite bad. The last few sites that are not built on along the entire route are already under development, or earmarked for development. New estate on the junction with Ballymoneen road, new pub/restaurant on the Clybaun road junction, new Lidl adjacent to Aldi, new apartment development to the east of Aldi etc. Build the bypass asap, Galway is the only city or town of any size in Ireland that is not bypassed. The N6 is just now another road through the town.

The N6 and roads like it are definitely not streets. There is a concept in urban design, especially in America for the "Stroad", where a section of carriageway has been built that fails to achieve the goals of either a street or a road, and tries to have it both ways.

Essentially the purpose of a 'street' should be to either contain residences, shops or ideally a mix of both, cars are effectively resident only or not permitted and the street-space can be used by businesses for outdoor seating and everyone else for walking/cycling/chatting/meeting/playing depending on context of urban or suburban.

By contrast a 'road' should fulfill one function, getting people from a departure point to a destination. A road shouldn't be littered with minor junctions, shops or the like (this breaks down a bit once you get to rural areas, but there the problems of failed roads/streets should be less severe anyway) It should simply enable motor vehicles, pedestrians and cyclists to get from one node to another as efficiently as is practical.

serfboard · 08-04-2021 4:51pm

xckjoo wrote: »

But we'll just see the same thing happen to the M6 if it's built.

I believe less and less, as time goes on, that it will be built, or not before 2030 at the very least.

And it wouldn't have to have the same result as the current N6 if the plan was for a HQDC with three grade-separated junctions only - Galway City East (at Doughiska), Galway City Centre and Connemara North (at the N59), and Galway City West and Connemara South (at the coast road), with Park n' Rides built at all three junctions for further inward travel.

However, that's not the plan, unfortunately, and I agree with others who say that it's very likely that the road will result in further car-dependent development.

remfan wrote: »

I live on the Clybaun Road, the western distributor road is now effectively a street, the traffic volumes, from 7-9.30 AM, around school finishing time and in the evenings from 5PM to 7PM can be quite bad.

The WDR solution is quite simple - additional Bus Lanes both ways and replace the roundabouts with traffic lights that can be changed by the buses - i.e. a QBC.

riddlinrussell · 08-04-2021 5:05pm

remfan wrote: »

Behind those tree live almost 16,000 people, about the size of Letterkenny, it is effectively a street, through a large suburb, try living here with, and the traffic is getting worse and worse now people are starting back to work, school etc.

And from the statistics, hardly any of that traffic will move to using the new road as only 3% of people are bypassing Galway?

remfan · 08-04-2021 5:07pm

have a look at the traffic counts on the M17/18 and compare to the traffic through Westside and the WDR. meanwhile Castlebar-Westport is getting a dual carriage way etc. The reality is Galway was never designed for traffic and we have to move that away from the city to allow more cycle lanes, bus lanes etc.

remfan · 08-04-2021 5:27pm

Perhaps you don't live in Galway, if you did you would realise that:

a) a significant number of people who live on the West of the Corrib, work on the East of the river (in Parkmore etc.)
b) a huge number (>25,000) of people work in and attend both NUIG and UCGH (and travel from both East and West to get there)
c) more and more houses etc. are being built in the Knocknacarra area, and more are planned

Have you ever sat in the endless traffic jams that start at the Tuam Road and end out past end of the WDR?
I wonder how much pollution is caused by these 1000's or car engines idling in this traffic, most week days.

If that is 3% then we must have a population close to London.
I have seen jams literally from the Ballymooneen road all the way to Briarhill, bumper to bumper
So who are these people, where are they going?

If you have a solution for that then I am all ears.

what_traffic · 08-04-2021 6:41pm

serfboard wrote: »

The WDR solution is quite simple - additional Bus Lanes both ways and replace the roundabouts with traffic lights that can be changed by the buses - i.e. a QBC.

Ya agree and so do the Council, room for it, not that expensive either. It will be done. Probably could be done for around 15million. Council had plans for same back in 2010 costed at 10million. It is a fundamental part of there transportation corridor / spine that goes through City East to West/West to East.

donvito99 · 08-04-2021 6:53pm

remfan wrote: »

Perhaps you don't live in Galway, if you did you would realise that:

a) a significant number of people who live on the West of the Corrib, work on the East of the river (in Parkmore etc.)
b) a huge number (>25,000) of people work in and attend both NUIG and UCGH (and travel from both East and West to get there)
c) more and more houses etc. are being built in the Knocknacarra area, and more are planned

Have you ever sat in the endless traffic jams that start at the Tuam Road and end out past end of the WDR?
I wonder how much pollution is caused by these 1000's or car engines idling in this traffic, most week days.

If that is 3% then we must have a population close to London.

Well that's the reality of the situation.

The jams you are seeing won't be fixed by the 'bypass'. If anything, the bypass will make them worse.

A proper bypass (Barna, N59, Tuam Rd, skip Ballybrit, N6) that's commensurate to actual traffic volumes bypassing the city and with limited access junctions would be ideal. You wouldn't save much but you'd stop Galway becoming Los Angeles without the weather.

what_traffic · 08-04-2021 7:06pm

Just posted on the Tribune website
https://connachttribune.ie/decision-on-proposal-for-galway-city-ring-road-pushed-back-to-june/

08-04-2021 7:22pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Just posted on the Tribune website
https://connachttribune.ie/decision-on-proposal-for-galway-city-ring-road-pushed-back-to-june/

marno21 wrote: »

I would be shocked if there was a decision on this by April. Mid summer at the earliest.

You called it marno

SeanW · 08-04-2021 10:43pm

riddlinrussell wrote:

Considering the current N6 as a 'city street' is part of the problem, that road should have been sufficient as a ring road, but was simply taken as an opportunity for more sprawl, given that 'through travel' appears to be a minimum of all traffic on that route (3%) the need to bypass the city again doesn't have strong arguments.

Again? that would assume it was ever bypassed to begin with. All that was ever built was a haphazard mélange of roads cobbled together on the cheap, less than 1 mile from Eyre Square. How else do you explain the absurd routing along the Headford Road. This may have been not terrible in 1984 when Ireland was an agricultural backwater but things have changed a little in the intervening years. And though planning in Galway might not have been great, I suspect that with less than a mile between Eyre Square and the Quincentennial Bridge, the city was always going to outgrow its so-called "bypass" eventually.

cgcsb wrote: »

There are no significant settlements, heavy industry or large trip generators west of Galway City though. It would be different story if you were talking about Athlone. The modelling in the GTS proved this, only 3% of traffic was bypassing the city. Resolving dealys for the 97% of journeys is a higher priority and that's being done for €0.2bn, so building a €1bn bypass for 3% of the traffic in the city doesn't make any sense. Journey times for that 3% of journeys will improve when busconnects removes a significant % of the 97% of car trips.

Firstly, the supposed remoteness of everything West of the Corrib has little effect, it is common across Europe for cities supposedly on the road to not much of anything to have bypasses, including recent builds. Secondly, I highly doubt that BusConnects on its own will speed everything up, because on the current route there are places where the only sensible way to provide a bus lane would be to remove a traffic lane from a heavily congested street/road hybrid. That's guaranteed to slow things down unless there is an immediate and very extreme modal shift.

monument wrote: »

Exactly which part of the N6, N59, R338, or the Western Distributor Road do you think is street-like?

Firstly, there is the section of the N6 that goes North-South down the Headford Road. It's a bad street, IMO but it has some features of a street. Private houses accessing it directly. Entrances to housing estates. A petrol station and hotel, a shopping centre and a large supermarket. It's a destination in and of itself, but unfortunately is also serving as a key road link. All East-West traffic is signed along it and it also has to serve a lot of North-South travel as well. It's basically a textbook "stroad." Secondly there's the N6 junction with Newcastle Road. The latter is clearly a street environment with houses fronting directly onto it, and the N6 bisects that environment. Not ideal IMHO and it doesn't benefit anyone to have traffic forced through these places.

08-04-2021 10:52pm

SeanW wrote: »

Secondly, I highly doubt that BusConnects on its own will speed everything up, because on the current route there are places where the only sensible way to provide a bus lane would be to remove a traffic lane from a heavily congested street/road hybrid. That's guaranteed to slow things down unless there is an immediate and very extreme modal shift.

Umm, I don't want to upset you, but thats exactly whats happening, check out the cross city link, shown below as the blue line

SeanW · 08-04-2021 11:06pm

That looks like they're planning a bus lane through the city centre, which sounds fair enough. But on the N6 it would be a different story.

08-04-2021 11:13pm

SeanW wrote: »

That looks like they're planning a bus lane through the city centre, which sounds fair enough. But on the N6 it would be a different story.

Yup, and removing access to private cars from a large amount of the center too

As for the N6, why would they put a bus lane on that, nobody lives or works on most of it

SeanW · 08-04-2021 11:24pm

The Headford Road section seems like a choke point for a lot of things. That's why I call into question the idea that the city was ever bypassed properly to begin with.

08-04-2021 11:35pm

SeanW wrote: »

The Headford Road section seems like a choke point for a lot of things.

The infrastructure is already in place for bus priority at the junction on the QCB end, the same will be done at the other end. This is the same as what has been added to the Tuam Rd junction with the N6. Basically, where its not possible to have a bus lane, they will have a bus only section at the junction and a priority green light to allow the bus to get through the junction first after a red.

None of this is switched on yet though but forms part of the building blocks for the whole network

M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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