the 'there's no such thing as a stupid question' bike maintenance thread

8valve · 03-08-2020 11:50am

loyatemu wrote: »

put a new cassette and chain onto my bike, first time doing either job - both cassettes are Shimano 10 speed

the new cassette came with 2 spacers on the inside (i.e. behind the largest ring), a thin one that was the equivalent of the one I took off, so I put that one on. The other was a thicker spacer with some notches in it that I couldn't have used even if I wanted to as the last ring of the cassette wouldn't have fitted on. So what is it for? Putting a 10 speed onto an 11 speed hub?

Most cassettes will come with a spare spacer, which fits nearest the spokes, so that you can ensure a secure fit of the cassette on the freehub body; also helps align the new sprockets so that your indexing is identical to when the old cassette was fitted to the wheel.

You are absolutely correct in fitting the same width spacer as the one you removed.

Complete the following to finish the job:
1.Run through all your gears with the bike on a workstand to verify that your indexing is still correct.
2. Make a cuppa/open a beer.
3. Stand back and admire your awesomeness at having completed the job.

loyatemu · 03-08-2020 12:28pm

yeah indexing seems fine.

I screwed up the routing of the chain through the deraileur, and didn't notice until after I'd secured the quick link and oiled the thing (thinking that was the reason it sounded rough). Naturally this was when I discovered my bike tool set (which did include a chain breaker and cassette tool) did not include a set of quick link pliers. Cue several sweary minutes trying to detach the oily quicklink with the pliers on my Leatherman (I managed in the end).

Effects · 04-08-2020 11:05pm

loyatemu wrote: »

I discovered my bike tool set (which did include a chain breaker and cassette tool) did not include a set of quick link pliers. Cue several sweary minutes trying to detach the oily quicklink with the pliers on my Leatherman (I managed in the end).

I cut a small section from a cheap wire hanger, and bend it to suit, then use the pliers to apply the force. Works well.

CormacH94 · 05-08-2020 2:26pm

Are headsets a standard configuration?

I.e, I have two forks I want to be able to swap between the one bike (One fork is fully slammed, one has a lot of length for touring) but I need a crown race for the relaxed fork.

The steerer is 1 1/8 - Does this mean I only need any 1 1/8 crown race or is better to match to the brand/model currently on the slammed fork?

8valve · 05-08-2020 7:32pm

CormacH94 wrote: »

Are headsets a standard configuration?

I.e, I have two forks I want to be able to swap between the one bike (One fork is fully slammed, one has a lot of length for touring) but I need a crown race for the relaxed fork.

The steerer is 1 1/8 - Does this mean I only need any 1 1/8 crown race or is better to match to the brand/model currently on the slammed fork?

Safer to match brands; also make sure you get the correct diameter/bearing angle also.

Weepsie · 10-08-2020 1:09pm

Swapping out a chainset question

Knowing from the outset an ultegra triple was a terrible idea for a tourer, I still pushed on for the completist in me.

Thinking of swapping it out for a Deore XT FC 8000. Chsinline would go from 45mm to 50mm.

Besides having to lower the derailleur, and possibly take a few links out of chain, what else am I needed to account for then?

It's a 52/39/30 to a 48/36/26.

magicbastarder · 10-08-2020 1:54pm

Weepsie wrote: »

Knowing from the outset an ultegra triple was a terrible idea for a tourer

why so?

Weepsie · 10-08-2020 2:35pm

With fully loaded pannier, and the bike is hefty enough too, I think lower gearing would be better.

I've limited by rear cog to a 30t too by going the ultegra route. No grand plans just yet, but if I do decide to do a few long solo days I think I'll appreciate the different gears.

a_squirrelman · 10-08-2020 3:30pm

8valve wrote: »

Have seen this with a few bikes; changes up to the big ring on the workstand no problem but won't shift up when being ridden under pressure.

What has worked for me is increasing cable tension gradually (if you have an inline tensioner fitted to the cable) and giving the outer limit screw no more than a quarter turn to allow the front mech travel further out by a teeny-weeny (very technical term lol) amount more, but not so much as to allow the chain to run out off the big chainring and get fouled up on the cranks and risking damage/twisting of the front mech cage...little bit of faffing/trial and error required; seek pro help if you don't feel confident.

Also, take pedalling pressure off the pedals (but still rotating forward, obviously!)when changing up to the big ring.

Thanks cletus and 8valve. Cable tension was the issue, and with no outer screw on this ancient bike I had to move the cage out a mm or two as well. Took some messing about but as a total noob I managed nonetheless.
Cheers!

8valve · 10-08-2020 8:13pm

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Thanks cletus and 8valve. Cable tension was the issue, and with no outer screw on this ancient bike I had to move the cage out a mm or two as well. Took some messing about but as a total noob I managed nonetheless.
Cheers!

Happy to hear you got it sorted.

It's only by experience that we learn stuff like this and this thread is a great way to share knowledge amongst us, that we've all accumulated over the years.

magicbastarder · 10-08-2020 8:40pm

i've a pair of aksiums on a bike that's been out in all weathers and was my commuting bike; the spokes are showing it a little with a bit of rust appearing through the anodising. is it even worth trying to clean them/treat them?
it's not nearly enough to worry about the strength of the spokes themselves; and they're disc wheels, so not something where the decision is automatically made to replace them if the rims wear through.

8valve · 10-08-2020 9:38pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i've a pair of aksiums on a bike that's been out in all weathers and was my commuting bike; the spokes are showing it a little with a bit of rust appearing through the anodising. is it even worth trying to clean them/treat them?
it's not nearly enough to worry about the strength of the spokes themselves; and they're disc wheels, so not something where the decision is automatically made to replace them if the rims wear through.

They tend to get a bit of surface rust when they're used in all weathers.

If it's only cosmetic, you could give them a quick rub down with a red scotchpad and a blowover with an aerosol can of satin black automotive paint, to make them pretty again...masking the rims and discs/hubs could be a bit of a chore!

The main fault I'm seeing with modern Mavics over the last decade is that the hubs/bearings are genuinely great for longevity, but the rims wear/become concave from the brake pads and also, the nipples, without exception, are absolute barstewards for welding themselves onto the spokes...to the point that I would recommend twice a year that every Mavic wheel owner should soak their nipples with penetrating fluid (Oooooh Matron!) and give each nipple a quarter turn clockwise then back a quarter turn anticlockwise to prevent them seizing and maintain tension!

I'm still riding Mavic hubs (on original sealed bearings) from the 80s/90s on MA40/GP4/Open4 CD rims with no signs of wear on anything, bar rim anodising wear from brake pads.
In the case of Mavic, the old saying ''They don't make em like they used to'' certainly rings true...

swarlb · 10-08-2020 11:39pm

8valve wrote: »

They tend to get a bit of surface rust when they're used in all weathers.

If it's only cosmetic, you could give them a quick rub down with a red scotchpad and a blowover with an aerosol can of satin black automotive paint, to make them pretty again...masking the rims and discs/hubs could be a bit of a chore!

The main fault I'm seeing with modern Mavics over the last decade is that the hubs/bearings are genuinely great for longevity, but the rims wear/become concave from the brake pads and also, the nipples, without exception, are absolute barstewards for welding themselves onto the spokes...to the point that I would recommend twice a year that every Mavic wheel owner should soak their nipples with penetrating fluid (Oooooh Matron!) and give each nipple a quarter turn clockwise then back a quarter turn anticlockwise to prevent them seizing and maintain tension!

I'm still riding Mavic hubs (on original sealed bearings) from the 80s/90s on MA40/GP4/Open4 CD rims with no signs of wear on anything, bar rim anodising wear from brake pads.
In the case of Mavic, the old saying ''They don't make em like they used to'' certainly rings true...

I bought a used set of Mavic hubs and pedals from one of the Kas mechanics on the Nissan Classic (obviously) a long time ago. They still run as smoothly as they did when I first used them, and God knows how many miles had been on them at that stage.
There was a saying about Campagnolo derailleurs back in the 70's, that they 'shifted poorly' say when compared to Shimano or even Suntour of the day.
However... they would continue to shift poorly.... 'Forever'

JMcL · 11-08-2020 3:24pm

8valve wrote: »

The main fault I'm seeing with modern Mavics over the last decade is that the hubs/bearings are genuinely great for longevity, but the rims wear/become concave from the brake pads and also, the nipples, without exception, are absolute barstewards for welding themselves onto the spokes...

This. Just after having to ditch a rear Ksh1tium which had spokes continually twisting, working loose, and seized nipples so no amount of elbow grease wouldn't shift them. Even tried swearing at them. Didn't work.

Replaced them with 2nd hand Aksiums which might be a case of once bitten, but I only need them to see me through the rest of the year til BTW time comes round again

8valve · 11-08-2020 3:46pm

JMcL wrote: »

This. Just after having to ditch a rear Ksh1tium which had spokes continually twisting, working loose, and seized nipples so no amount of elbow grease wouldn't shift them. Even tried swearing at them. Didn't work.

Replaced them with 2nd hand Aksiums which might be a case of once bitten, but I only need them to see me through the rest of the year til BTW time comes round again

Don't forget to lube your nipples!:D

JMcL · 12-08-2020 12:01pm

8valve wrote: »

Don't forget to lube your nipples!:D

Twice a day to be on the safe side :-)

dave_o_brien · 12-08-2020 2:49pm

swarlb wrote: »

I bought a used set of Mavic hubs and pedals from one of the Kas mechanics on the Nissan Classic (obviously) a long time ago. They still run as smoothly as they did when I first used them, and God knows how many miles had been on them at that stage.
There was a saying about Campagnolo derailleurs back in the 70's, that they 'shifted poorly' say when compared to Shimano or even Suntour of the day.
However... they would continue to shift poorly.... 'Forever'

A bike mechanic I used to work with used to say that Shimano wore out, Campy wore in.

magicbastarder · 12-08-2020 2:51pm

i've heard that comment before a couple of times. it sounds neat, but i'd love to know what they mean by that. campagnolo reverses the direction of entropy?

dave_o_brien · 12-08-2020 2:58pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i've heard that comment before a couple of times. it sounds neat, but i'd love to know what they mean by that. campagnolo reverses the direction of entropy?

Yeah, exactly.

I think the reputation was that well used campy felt better, crisper and more reliable than well used shimano. New, not much between them.

My experience is that either have really impressive durability for anything but the cheapest of groupsets.

Tony04 · 12-08-2020 3:32pm

dave_o_brien wrote: »

A bike mechanic I used to work with used to say that Shimano wore out, Campy wore in.

What about Sram

? Campy and shimano are at another level.

The thing I love about shimano is how they make all their parts serviceable, apart from maybe the tourney group. Also shimano mtb stuff is rock solid.

Shame campagnolo has lost its market share over the years all the same

CormacH94 · 12-08-2020 10:05pm

Following on from my headset question - how do I figure out what bearings I need for my bike? I know it's a 1 1/8th steerer - integrated I think? How do I go abouts finding replacement set of bearings? Can't find any spec on the brand website - Bike is a 2013 Lapierre Audacio 400 for reference

cletus · 12-08-2020 10:15pm

CormacH94 wrote: »

Following on from my headset question - how do I figure out what bearings I need for my bike? I know it's a 1 1/8th steerer - integrated I think? How do I go abouts finding replacement set of bearings? Can't find any spec on the brand website - Bike is a 2013 Lapierre Audacio 400 for reference

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/headset-standards#:~:text=Steering%20columns%20may%20be%20either,a%2045-degree%20bearing%20seat.

Some info here on the various headset standards and bearing nominal sizes

crosstownk · 12-08-2020 10:18pm

CormacH94 wrote: »

Following on from my headset question - how do I figure out what bearings I need for my bike? I know it's a 1 1/8th steerer - integrated I think? How do I go abouts finding replacement set of bearings? Can't find any spec on the brand website - Bike is a 2013 Lapierre Audacio 400 for reference

You could remove the bearing and see if the dimensions are cold stamped on the casing. That's how I found the size of the headset on my Giant (VP bearing). I haven't needed to do the same with my Lapierre so I'd be interested to see what you find.

CormacH94 · 13-08-2020 8:21am

crosstownk wrote: »

You could remove the bearing and see if the dimensions are cold stamped on the casing. That's how I found the size of the headset on my Giant (VP bearing). I haven't needed to do the same with my Lapierre so I'd be interested to see what you find.

Thanks for the link Cletus!

Never even thought of checking the actual bearings haha

Bill74 · 13-08-2020 11:11am

I've had a rear hub flange failure on a 7 yr old set of Zipp 303's. Is there any point getting new hub put on? Any recommendations for a wheel builder near Carlow. Or Dublin if I have to.

ED E · 13-08-2020 7:52pm

Does it exist:

8 speed drop shifter with hydraulic braking?

8valve · 13-08-2020 9:24pm

ED E wrote: »

Does it exist:

8 speed drop shifter with hydraulic braking?

Not that I'm aware of....although I have heard talk of a tektro hydraulic caliper that is cable actuated from a traditional cable-brake shifter?

a148pro · 13-08-2020 9:25pm

What does it mean if you stand on the pedals on a descent and the bike starts to wobble, almost rhythmically? As in its wobbling itself. Wheels not trued?

8valve · 13-08-2020 9:26pm

a148pro wrote: »

What does it mean if you stand on the pedals on a descent and the bike starts to wobble, almost rhythmically? As in its wobbling itself. Wheels not trued?

Just a speed wobble?

Does it happen when seated?

magicbastarder · 13-08-2020 9:53pm

how fast was the wobble?
here's one example of speed wobble (starts 25-30s in)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7kd3n9ydIM

Deano12345 · 13-08-2020 10:47pm

8valve wrote: »

Not that I'm aware of....although I have heard talk of a tektro hydraulic caliper that is cable actuated from a traditional cable-brake shifter?

TRP also have the HY/RD system as well!

13-08-2020 11:01pm

Shimano only made hydraulic available for Tiagra last year and I don't think i've seen it on any bike with a full Tiagra groupset yet even 2021 models.

Most I've seen have the Tektro or TRP system or for a 150 to 200 more a 105 groupset??? Pricing must be an issue there?

Manufactures clearly not keen to push Tiagra Hydraulic.

grogi · 13-08-2020 11:35pm

a148pro wrote: »

What does it mean if you stand on the pedals on a descent and the bike starts to wobble, almost rhythmically? As in its wobbling itself. Wheels not trued?

Nothing wrong. Each bike has its own resonance frequency. Use your tights to dampen the wobbling and try moving forward in the saddle.

8valve · 14-08-2020 9:31am

Deano12345 wrote: »

TRP also have the HY/RD system as well!

Thats the one! TRP, not Tektro, as I posted! Getting good reviews from the cycling press too.

a148pro · 14-08-2020 10:29am

8valve wrote: »

Just a speed wobble?

Does it happen when seated?

Doesn't happen seated, must be a normal thing so I was just worried it was indicative of some other problem

Zen0 · 14-08-2020 11:25am

Speed wobble. Only happened to me once, years ago on an old steel framed bike. Absolutely terrifying. I have seen the recommendation that you press your leg into the top tube to suppress the vibration. Pressing your tights against the top tube might work also, but only if you’re wearing them. Or in your case just sit back on the saddle.

JMcL · 14-08-2020 12:04pm

8valve wrote: »

Thats the one! TRP, not Tektro, as I posted! Getting good reviews from the cycling press too.

Yep, works well. Have it on the Croix de Fer and beyond changing pads, never had to do anything with it in nearly 4 years. Can't see any reason why it wouldn't work on an 8 speed shifter. I believe it needs compressionless outers though, but again that shouldn't be a blocker

ED E · 14-08-2020 10:47pm

8valve wrote: »

Not that I'm aware of....although I have heard talk of a tektro hydraulic caliper that is cable actuated from a traditional cable-brake shifter?

Deano12345 wrote: »

TRP also have the HY/RD system as well!

Hmm, not quite what I was looking for.

Deleted User wrote: »

Shimano only made hydraulic available for Tiagra last year and I don't think i've seen it on any bike with a full Tiagra groupset yet even 2021 models.

Most I've seen have the Tektro or TRP system or for a 150 to 200 more a 105 groupset??? Pricing must be an issue there?

Manufactures clearly not keen to push Tiagra Hydraulic.

JMcL wrote: »

Yep, works well. Have it on the Croix de Fer and beyond changing pads, never had to do anything with it in nearly 4 years. Can't see any reason why it wouldn't work on an 8 speed shifter. I believe it needs compressionless outers though, but again that shouldn't be a blocker

What I want to do is a bit unorthodox. Alfine/Nexus hub + drops w/ hyd. The Versa VRS8 is close but no hydraulic and looks to be a bit crap and impossible to find to boot. Theres Retroshift/Gevenalle too.

If its going to cost as much as I save on B2W its probably not worth it. Part of me says get over yourself and accept flat bars but I really do prefer drops(riding on the hoods).

Stumbled upon this while googling:
https://www.wired.com/2012/03/shimano-alfine-di2/

Kinda cool, never gonna be in budget for a 365 commuter as a retrofit. But that means the ST-R785 exists. Interesting.

grogi · 15-08-2020 2:03am

ED E wrote: »

What I want to do is a bit unorthodox. Alfine/Nexus hub + drops w/ hyd.

Idea is fantastic, but are there Alfine brifters? I think the hub uses different indexing than standard derailleur...

ED E · 15-08-2020 5:07pm

grogi wrote: »

Idea is fantastic, but are there Alfine brifters? I think the hub uses different indexing than standard derailleur...

Yeah, thats kinda why Im asking. There are 11spd Alfines but not sure if the total travel matches at all with regular 11spd setups. Same for the 8s.

cletus · 15-08-2020 6:37pm

It's a while since I asked a stupid question, and I don't want to fall behind, so here it goes

I have Shimano Sora 9 speed cassette and rear derailleur on my gravel bike. I do get some chain slap.

Is there any way to retrofit a clutch mechanism, or is it just replace the derailleur, and if so can you even get 9 speed clutched rear deraillers

Tony04 · 15-08-2020 7:14pm

Not a stupid question

I'd imagine it might be possible as clutches arent complex just tension dampers on the pivot. Youd have to google to see I'd it's done before, could become very complex with small parts getting to right tension do not ruin shifting. Are you an engineer?

Shimano dont make 9 speed clutched derailleurs but microshift advent would work.

In my experience from upgrading an awful 3 x 8 atlus/tourney mtb drivetrain to 1 x 10 a narrow wide ring makes more difference than a clutch so much so I often forget to turn the clutch back on after taking wheel out.

8valve · 15-08-2020 7:52pm

ED E wrote: »

Hmm, not quite what I was looking for.

What I want to do is a bit unorthodox. Alfine/Nexus hub + drops w/ hyd. The Versa VRS8 is close but no hydraulic and looks to be a bit crap and impossible to find to boot. Theres Retroshift/Gevenalle too.

If its going to cost as much as I save on B2W its probably not worth it. Part of me says get over yourself and accept flat bars but I really do prefer drops(riding on the hoods).

Stumbled upon this while googling:
https://www.wired.com/2012/03/shimano-alfine-di2/

Kinda cool, never gonna be in budget for a 365 commuter as a retrofit. But that means the ST-R785 exists. Interesting.

Would one of the range of JTEKs shiftmate thingyamebobs correct the different cable pulls between the Alfine hub and an 11 speed shifter?

Or even use an old 8spd shifter with a nexus 7 speed hub (cable pull on all shimano stuff is the same up to 8speed, with the exception of some generation Dura ace, iirc?)

I've used a JTEK to match up a mongrel mix of Campag Chorus & 105/Ultegra 10 speed stuff on my old Merckx steel bike and it works flawlessly. There's a whole range of JTEK Shiftmates for different combos.

You could then use the TRP HY/RD calipers with discs?

I'd love to build this kind of frankenbike combo on something steel with disc mounts.

cletus · 15-08-2020 8:04pm

Tony04 wrote: »

Not a stupid question

I'd imagine it might be possible as clutches arent complex just tension dampers on the pivot. Youd have to google to see I'd it's done before, could become very complex with small parts getting to right tension do not ruin shifting. Are you an engineer?

Shimano dont make 9 speed clutched derailleurs but microshift advent would work.

In my experience from upgrading an awful 3 x 8 atlus/tourney mtb drivetrain to 1 x 10 a narrow wide ring makes more difference than a clutch so much so I often forget to turn the clutch back on after taking wheel out.

Thanks for the reply. I was thinking of a bolt on piece, something similar to the chain tensioner you can get for fixie conversions.

I'm not an engineer, but a PE and English teacher

Tony04 · 15-08-2020 11:18pm

Physically educate the chain to stop slapping!

But seriously first thing I'd do if you haven't already is fashion a chainstay protector on the bike, an old tube protects your paintwork and acts as a good damper.

Your options to eradicate chain slap

1: stay 9 speed use microshift advent

2: go 1x with a narrow wide ring

3: 10 speed derailleur 9 speed shifter with same shift ratios use limit screw

4 change groupset

5: look on the internet to see if anyone has tinkered a 9 speed clutch derailleur, I know your a good tinkerer so I cant see if someone has done it why you cant

That's all I can think of.
Your suggestion of a chain tensioner" I dont think there could be such a thing on a non single speed transmission as that's the job of the jockey wheels already a clutch dampens lateral movement in the chain tensioner basically.

rayman1 · 17-08-2020 11:06am

I need to reinstall the expander plug in my Giant Defy OD2 carbon steerer tube. It came apart when the expander plug bolt came out when I was taking out the top cap bolt.
Any advice on reinstalling it. Should I use locktite and more importantly what torque should I use? Thanks.

07Lapierre · 17-08-2020 11:26am

rayman1 wrote: »

I need to reinstall the expander plug in my Giant Defy OD2 carbon steerer tube. It came apart when the expander plug bolt came out when I was taking out the top cap bolt.
Any advice on reinstalling it. Should I use locktite and more importantly what torque should I use? Thanks.

I don't use a torque spanner. The purpose of the expander plug is to put tension on the headset bearings. With the Stem bolts loose, tighten the expander bolt by hand until the bars turn freely but without any "Rocking" motion. Then tighten the Stem bolts (again i tighten these by hand). Stem bolts should be tight, but not too tight.

rayman1 · 17-08-2020 12:20pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

I don't use a torque spanner. The purpose of the expander plug is to put tension on the headset bearings. With the Stem bolts loose, tighten the expander bolt by hand until the bars turn freely but without any "Rocking" motion. Then tighten the Stem bolts (again i tighten these by hand). Stem bolts should be tight, but not too tight.

Thanks Lapierre. I do as you say when tightening the headset bearings but that's not my issue. The expander plug has come apart, a top and bottom taper and the central expander. There is a large, long bolt that pulls them together and expands it to grip the inside of the carbon steerer tube. For obvious reasons I don't want to over expand it. I have seen a range of torques mentioned on line.
The top cap bolt that tightens the bearings screws into this large, long bolt.

CramCycle · 17-08-2020 3:58pm

Tony04 wrote: »

That's all I can think of.
Your suggestion of a chain tensioner" I dont think there could be such a thing on a non single speed transmission as that's the job of the jockey wheels already a clutch dampens lateral movement in the chain tensioner basically.

Would shortening the chain do it, I realise you'll be stretching the derailleur a bit more but if its shortened a bit it should help reduce chain slap.

07Lapierre · 17-08-2020 4:10pm

rayman1 wrote: »

Thanks Lapierre. I do as you say when tightening the headset bearings but that's not my issue. The expander plug has come apart, a top and bottom taper and the central expander. There is a large, long bolt that pulls them together and expands it to grip the inside of the carbon steerer tube. For obvious reasons I don't want to over expand it. I have seen a range of torques mentioned on line.
The top cap bolt that tightens the bearings screws into this large, long bolt.

Ah OK. TBH when it comes to carbon, i don't like using torque spanners. I prefer to tighten things by hand. I only use a torque spanner when fitting a set of vector pedals. irrational i know, but i don't trust torque settings.

the 'there's no such thing as a stupid question' bike maintenance thread

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