Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

Pinch Flat · 31-05-2020 4:48pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Do you think it is wise to give out the message that he should just do what he likes and screw everyone else. It is wholly unnecessary, you could walk 3km in half an hour.

Ah yeah fair comment. Hes a careful enough chap. Respectful of others. He prefers to cycle, they'll do a few laps of the park and head home. Walking 20 odd km I guess just doesn't appeal to him.

Thelonious Monk · 31-05-2020 4:50pm

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Ah yeah fair comment. Hes a careful enough chap. Respectful of others. He prefers to cycle, they'll do a few laps of the park and head home.

Kids are going to cycle on the path no matter what, or cycle wherever they can really. Should we ban kids from cycling? Of course not.
The only threat on the paths or roads are motorised vehicles. Giving out about cyclists is just f*cking frustrated old twats with nothing better to do. I'm sick to death of it.

Pinch Flat · 31-05-2020 4:52pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Kids are going to cycle on the path no matter what, or cycle wherever they can really. Should we ban kids from cycling? Of course not.
The only threat on the paths or roads are motorised vehicles. Giving out about cyclists is just f*cking frustrated old twats with nothing better to do. I'm sick to death of it.

Yeah the same clowns who'll happily plonk two wheels of their car on the path and not give a ****e. The footpaths around my estate are barely useable by people with prams due to rampant abuse of the footpaths by careless motorists. Where they're wider, people will park the whole car on the path.

Casey78 · 31-05-2020 5:03pm

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Yeah the same clowns who'll happily plonk two wheels of their car on the path and not give a ****e. The footpaths around my estate are barely useable by people with prams due to rampant abuse of the footpaths by careless motorists. Where they're wider, people will park the whole car on the path.

Fully agree that is an issue that needs to be addressed, as someone with 3 small kids im often inconvenienced by cars parked on footpaths and I cant get a buggy past.That isn't what the thread is about though so maybe you should start one about that issue?

I personally have no issue with cyclists on a footpath if I'm being honest. Once they move to get out of my way and not make me move to get out of theirs then they can cycle wherever they want for all I care.

magicbastarder · 31-05-2020 5:23pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Do you think it is wise to give out the message that he should just do what he likes and screw everyone else. It is wholly unnecessary, you could walk 3km in half an hour.

Ah yes, the obvious solution. If it's too dangerous to do something perfectly reasonable, the suggestion is not 'let us address the danger', it's 'well you should stop doing that'.

Spook_ie · 31-05-2020 5:30pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Why is there so much hype about this lately? Is it not a great thing that people are out on bikes in any capacity? Has anyone been injured by cyclists on footpaths?
Why don't people go nuts ringing radio shows about illegally parked cars absolutely everywhere? There are 7 outside my house right now illegally parked, just strewn around the place.
There have been 18 pedestrians KILLED, yes KILLED, by people driving cars this year - but this doesn't seem to bother anyone?
Why isn't Pat Kenny going nuts about this?
Seriously, get your priorities right, bikes are not a danger to anyone.

You should really be comparing apples with apples, how many people have been killed by parked cars?
Are there a comparable number of people injured by parked cars on footpaths as to people injured by cyclists on footpaths?

monument · 31-05-2020 5:32pm

Casey78 wrote: »

Fully agree that is an issue that needs to be addressed, as someone with 3 small kids im often inconvenienced by cars parked on footpaths and I cant get a buggy past.That isn't what the thread is about though so maybe you should start one about that issue?

I personally have no issue with cyclists on a footpath if I'm being honest. Once they move to get out of my way and not make me move to get out of theirs then they can cycle wherever they want for all I care.

Please stop telling people what they can or cannot say on threads. And please read the Boards.ie commuting and transport charter Before posting again.

— moderator

TaurenDruid · 31-05-2020 5:45pm

Casey78 wrote: »

I personally have no issue with cyclists on a footpath if I'm being honest. Once they move to get out of my way and not make me move to get out of theirs then they can cycle wherever they want for all I care.

My walk to the office from the bus stop to the office and back and other city centre places got a lot more interesting when I realised that no, I don't have to get out of the cyclist's way!

Yer man Thelonius obviously is never around the city centre at rush hour or lunchtime. No kids on the footpath there. Which isn't what the thread is about, anyway. Plenty of adults, though.

Admittedly my andecdata is skewed because I regularly pass a congregation spot for bike couriers and several fast food restaurants, so the footpaths there are polluted with Deliveroo cyclists.

07Lapierre · 31-05-2020 5:49pm

I don’t cycle on the footpad. It’s too much hassle. They’re usually clogged with people walking, blocked by cars, blocked by street furniture and have “ramps” at every driveway entrance which make cycling at any sort of speed very irritating! They are also dangerous as people drive their cars out of driveways don’t expect cyclists to be on the footpad. In short don’t do it! (P.s. it’s also illegal)

Casey78 · 31-05-2020 5:51pm

monument wrote: »

Please stop telling people what they can or cannot say on threads. And please read the Boards.ie commuting and transport charter Before posting again.

— moderator

I have no interest in reading any of that.Thanks.

1 sheep2 · 31-05-2020 5:52pm

This is a really disappointing contribution from a mod. Hostile, badly written...

monument wrote: »

LOL... cars are confined to roads... yet, it doesn't take long traveling around urban areas in Ireland before you find cars on footpaths, cycle paths, cycle lanes, and even on top of grass verges etc.

It also says a lot that it's pedestrians, cyclists, but cars.... since when has Ireland had any driverless cars? It's easier to brush over wrong doing when you're not thinking about the humans involved.

Whether you admit it or not, motorists rarely impinge on pedestrians within their sphere. It is highly unusual to see a motorist in a pedestrian zone or cutting across someone as they cross on a green light. Parking on footpaths, while annoying in the extreme (and widespread) is a different matter because a motorist will nearly always yield complete right of way to a pedestrian before doing so. So, it is very rare for a pedestrian to be affected by the rule-breaking of motorists anywhere but at crossings - i.e. in the place where the two spheres overlap.

The second is a pathetic attempt to see significance where none exists.

Hmm... "cycling lobbyists on twitter" and "I'm a cyclist too" is the type of phrases used by anti-cycle path people in the UK and Cork council people who don't campaigners calling for action on cars parking in cycle lanes and inaction by the council.

If I've interpreted your garbled writing properly, you're accusing me of lying about being a cyclist to disguise an anti-cyclist agenda. Given that I don't and have never driven, and that I've expressed in a post that you quote below how frequently I reprimand motorists, it seems unlikely that I would side with motorists against cyclists.

It's insane... that (a) much of anything on this thread can be seen as "some cyclists denying that cyclists break the rules", (b) that you expect in a thread about something that you won't get people explaining why that something happens, or (c) you misunderstanding the words being posted by others due to your perspectives on these type of issues.

You're a terrible, terrible writer. What even to say in response?

Cyclists have repeatedly asserted that it is a minority of cyclists that break rules, while simultaneously justifying why they themselves do it.

People have not merely explained why it happens; they have asserted their moral right to doing it.

I'll leave the third to rot where it is.

You'll find that people's perceptions of you is based on what you have said and your focus and way of talking about things.

What does this even mean? Are you defending the motorists in the instances I describe, having earlier described their rampant misbehaviour?!

That's really poor coming from the person who thinks "that pedestrians are confined to footpaths and cars to roads, yet cyclists can pick and choose, deciding on which laws to follow". Engaging with an issue and then calling it "whataboutery" when you're clearly loosing the argument is a bad look.

Again, I can barely discern a sense to this. Loosing an argument? Zealots like you have merely moved the goalposts. There has been no static argument to lose.

Boards.ie will be better off when you're gone.

Charles Babbage · 31-05-2020 5:56pm

Thelonious Monk wrote:

Why is there so much hype about this lately? Is it not a great thing that people are out on bikes in any capacity? Has anyone been injured by cyclists on footpaths?
Why don't people go nuts ringing radio shows about illegally parked cars absolutely everywhere? There are 7 outside my house right now illegally parked, just strewn around the place.
There have been 18 pedestrians KILLED, yes KILLED, by people driving cars this year - but this doesn't seem to bother anyone?
Why isn't Pat Kenny going nuts about this?
Seriously, get your priorities right, bikes are not a danger to anyone.

Here we go again with more whataboutery are you trying to win a prize?

Saying that people do not get killed is not an excuse for anything otherwise every class of rape and robbery would be OK.

People do not get killed by parked cars either.

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Ah yeah fair comment. Hes a careful enough chap. Respectful of others. He prefers to cycle, they'll do a few laps of the park and head home. Walking 20 odd km I guess just doesn't appeal to him.

So the message is that you can break the law and intimidate other people because the alternative isn't appealing? Anyhow you said the park was 3km away not 20? Cycling on a footpath for 20Km would be a gross act of loutery.

07Lapierre · 31-05-2020 6:02pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

You should really be comparing apples with apples, how many people have been killed by parked cars?
Are there a comparable number of people injured by parked cars on footpaths as to people injured by cyclists on footpaths?

Parking cars on the pavement is selfish behaviour which shows a total disregard be the car owner of other people. They block the pavement forcing parents with kids to walk on the road. People in wheelchairs are also inconvenienced. And as for blind people? Parked cars must be a nightmare for them!

ewc78 · 31-05-2020 6:14pm

Cyclists can use the footpath all they want for all I care. I run on the cycle lanes the whole time anyway, to give walkers space when they are with their kids or dogs or whatever. Dog walkers very rarely pull the dogs lead in so I just stay in the cycle lane.
And I'm sure seeing as none of the cyclists here see anything wrong with cycling on a footpath, then they should have no issues with me running in the cycle lane?

monument · 31-05-2020 6:26pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

You should really be comparing apples with apples, how many people have been killed by parked cars?
Are there a comparable number of people injured by parked cars on footpaths as to people injured by cyclists on footpaths?

The number of people majorly injured by cyclists on footpaths seem to be low in Ireland... unless you have figures to show otherwise? There seems to be more notable cases of motorists mounting footpaths and killing pedestrians.

Thelonious Monk · 31-05-2020 6:27pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

You should really be comparing apples with apples, how many people have been killed by parked cars?
Are there a comparable number of people injured by parked cars on footpaths as to people injured by cyclists on footpaths?

Well there's this

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/1218/1101993-rosemarie-gallagher/

and this

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/jogger-dies-after-being-hit-by-van-in-dublin-1.4193127

these are just recent, cars mounting pedestrian areas and killing and maiming people. But yes bikes are the real danger.

Spook_ie · 31-05-2020 6:29pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

Parking cars on the pavement is selfish behaviour which shows a total disregard be the car owner of other people. They block the pavement forcing parents with kids to walk on the road. People in wheelchairs are also inconvenienced. And as for blind people? Parked cars must be a nightmare for them!

Still unlikely to find many cases of people being being killed or injured by cars parked on footpaths, I daresay that the anecdotal evidence suports the theory that cyclists injure more peple on footpaths than parked cars.

And I never said it wasn't selfish, just that when people suddenly splurge in the middle of a thread about motorists killing people that they need reining in.

monument · 31-05-2020 6:30pm

1 sheep2 wrote: »

This is a really disappointing contribution from a mod. Hostile, badly written...

When I'm posting normally, I'm posting normally, I'm not moderating. I take a light touch as possable on thread like this except, for example, when people are back seat moderating. Moderation is not up for in-thread discussion.

Please read the commuting and transport charter or just don't commenting on moderation in-thread again, thank you.

-- moderator

Thelonious Monk · 31-05-2020 6:31pm

oh here's another

https://theliberal.ie/breaking-woman-50s-killed-after-been-hit-by-a-car-driven-on-the-footpath-following-an-armed-robbery-in-dublin/

there are countless.
so I don't get why people on bikes is something that garners so much rage. It may be a mild inconvenience to you the odd time but it doesn't warrant all the sh*te we have to listen to about it as if they're blasting ebola pellets in your face with a shotgun as they cycle past you.

Spook_ie · 31-05-2020 6:31pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well there's this

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/1218/1101993-rosemarie-gallagher/

and this

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/jogger-dies-after-being-hit-by-van-in-dublin-1.4193127

these are just recent, cars mounting pedestrian areas and killing and maiming people. But yes bikes are the real danger.

The discussion is parked cars, I didn't say anywhere that people on footpaths have never been hit by a moving vehicle.

Again apples or oranges not both.

Thelonious Monk · 31-05-2020 6:33pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

The discussion is parked cars, I didn't say anywhere that people on footpaths have never been hit by a moving vehicle.

Again apples or oranges not both.

can you tell me why an article about a pedestrian killed by a driver of a car gets 2 or 3 comments under the news article saying RIP, but if a cyclist is killed it gets 100s blaming cyclists?
because there is an irrational hatred of cyclists for god knows what reason, car drivers see them as an inconvenience as they may actually have to concentrate on their driving when they're around them.

Spook_ie · 31-05-2020 6:33pm

monument wrote: »

The number of people majorly injured by cyclists on footpaths seem to be low in Ireland... unless you have figures to show otherwise? There seems to be more notable cases of motorists mounting footpaths and killing pedestrians.

As I said, try to stay on topic and maybe look at the figures for deaths by parked cars.

RoversCeltic · 31-05-2020 6:35pm

It is illegal to cycle on paths or is that a misconception?

TaurenDruid · 31-05-2020 6:36pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

oh here's another

https://theliberal.ie/breaking-woman-50s-killed-after-been-hit-by-a-car-driven-on-the-footpath-following-an-armed-robbery-in-dublin/

there are countless.
so I don't get why people on bikes is something that garners so much rage. It may be a mild inconvenience to you the odd time but it doesn't warrant all the sh*te we have to listen to about it as if they're blasting ebola pellets in your face with a shotgun as they cycle past you.

Once again - whataboutery. But what whataboutery, at that!

"Armed robbers kill more people than cyclists on footpaths!"

Yes, yes they do.

If you want a thread giving about armed robbers killing people by driving on footpaths, maybe start such a thread. I mean, it's a pretty bizarre example to throw up here.

If that's not what the article actually describes, apologies, but it's a liberal dot ie link and I'm not giving that plagiarised rag a click.

TaurenDruid · 31-05-2020 6:37pm

RoversCeltic wrote: »

It is illegal to cycle on paths or is that a misconception?

It is illegal to cycle on footpaths.

SeanW · 31-05-2020 6:37pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why would you think that international comparisons are relevant?

Because if you're going to call Irish motorists in some way bad, there has to be some kind of standard. What are you comparing Irish motorists to? World experience? European norms? Some nonsensical zero-standard that world experience shows is next to impossible?

It really doesn't matter in the slightest how good or bad things are in other countries.

On what planet do international comparisons "not matter in the slightest"

you're specifically talking trash about Irish drivers?

The relevant comparison is to compare against the option of not killing two or three people each week.

How is that an "option"?

Remember that even in countries with more severe regulations on motorists, road deaths still occur. Case in point is Canada, where laws regulating motorists are very strict and the process for gaining a full driving license takes a multitude of tests and stretches out over many years. And yet Irish drivers compare very well to Canadian drivers.
Road fatalities per 100,000 people per year:
Canada: 5.8
Ireland: 4.1

Road fatalities per 100,000 vehicles per year:
Canada: 8.9
Ireland: 7.5

Road fatalities per billion kilometres traveled:
Canada: 5.1
Ireland: 3.8

And this bears repeating, and emphasising: Canadian drivers are more heavily regulated than Irish drivers, yet Canada still suffers more road fatalities by every measure. So what in Hades are you looking for?

Yeah, bloody hypocrites killing one person each decade, while improving public health, avoid toxic emissions and reducing traffic chaos. Who the hell do they think they are?

Cyclists (at least some, maybe not all) seem to have two mantras:

Rules for thee, not for me.
But, but,but ... whatabout!

Again, your own personal experience isn't a great yardstick for measuring safety, given the ever-present risk of confirmation bias.

I've been a daily pedestrian for many years. I know when I've been in danger, and when I have not. And every time a motorist has done something that put me in danger, speed was not the issue. Every. single. time. As long as both myself as a pedestrian and the motorists are obeying traffic controls, the speed of the vehicles (within reason) is a low concern.

I can only imagine that families and friends of the increased number of road victims might have a different view to you on the relevance of these stats. I'm not sure that being told that your dead father/brother/mother/child is a statistical variance is going to give much comfort.

A fact does not cease to be a fact, simply because it is ignored. Nor does it cease to be a fact simply because it does not "give much comfort." That's not how facts work.

monument · 31-05-2020 6:38pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

As I said, try to stay on topic and maybe look at the figures for deaths by parked cars.

Even when you're replying to me, back seat moderating won't be tolerated

-- moderator

07Lapierre · 31-05-2020 6:40pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

Still unlikely to find many cases of people being being killed or injured by cars parked on footpaths, I daresay that the anecdotal evidence suports the theory that cyclists injure more peple on footpaths than parked cars.

And I never said it wasn't selfish, just that when people suddenly splurge in the middle of a thread about motorists killing people that they need reining in.

They are not killed by the car once it’s parked... it’s while mounting the pavement the the damage is done.

Spook_ie · 31-05-2020 6:40pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

oh here's another

https://theliberal.ie/breaking-woman-50s-killed-after-been-hit-by-a-car-driven-on-the-footpath-following-an-armed-robbery-in-dublin/

there are countless.
so I don't get why people on bikes is something that garners so much rage. It may be a mild inconvenience to you the odd time but it doesn't warrant all the sh*te we have to listen to about it as if they're blasting ebola pellets in your face with a shotgun as they cycle past you.

Again NOT a parked car, how many injuries or deaths do you have for parked cars. I'll give you one that happened to me, I was walking between vehicles in a multistory car park and hit my shin on a towball. I'm sure it probably happens on footpaths with cars parked as well BUT I'm not the one throwing in stats about deaths to try and secure points that are actually irrelevant to the topic of cyclists riding on the footpath and cars parked on the footpath.

Thelonious Monk · 31-05-2020 6:46pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

Again NOT a parked car, how many injuries or deaths do you have for parked cars. I'll give you one that happened to me, I was walking between vehicles in a multistory car park and hit my shin on a towball. I'm sure it probably happens on footpaths with cars parked as well BUT I'm not the one throwing in stats about deaths to try and secure points that are actually irrelevant to the topic of cyclists riding on the footpath and cars parked on the footpath.

So you're just kicking up a fuss about a non issue, cyclists do not harm people on footpaths, maybe the odd accident, but joggers are probably as dangerous. Going on about it because you don't like cyclists. Have you nothing better to be doing?

ewc78 · 31-05-2020 6:47pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

can you tell me why an article about a pedestrian killed by a driver of a car gets 2 or 3 comments under the news article saying RIP, but if a cyclist is killed it gets 100s blaming cyclists?
because there is an irrational hatred of cyclists for god knows what reason, car drivers see them as an inconvenience as they may actually have to concentrate on their driving when they're around them.

In fairness I've seen comments on those news items where people automatically blame the driver when no one actually knows the details of the accident. I'm sure even some of the time it's the cyclists own fault? Not that anyone deserves to die of course but there are cyclists who take ridiculous risks on the road, and before anyone mentions it, yes I know motorists take stupid risks also...

If everyone just agreed that there are some motorists who are arseholes and there are some cyclists who are arseholes then this back and forth debating wouldn't need to happen.

1 sheep2 · 31-05-2020 6:49pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

...cyclists do not harm people on footpaths

These people cannot see significance beyond physical injury. It's comical.

RoversCeltic · 31-05-2020 6:57pm

TaurenDruid wrote: »

It is illegal to cycle on footpaths.

Under what law

The citizens advice website isn't clear

ewc78 · 31-05-2020 6:57pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So you're just kicking up a fuss about a non issue, cyclists do not harm people on footpaths, maybe the odd accident, but joggers are probably as dangerous. Going on about it because you don't like cyclists. Have you nothing better to be doing?

How exactly would a 'jogger' plodding along at around 8km/hr be as dangerous as a cyclist moving at 20km/hr or more on a footpath?

Oh no here comes Karen from the local couch to 5k club coming towards us, we better get out of her way before she knocks us all over...!

monument · 31-05-2020 7:03pm

1 sheep2 wrote: »

...badly written...

The last reply with quick and this one will be too.. I'll reserve finer writing for elsewhere... :cool:

1 sheep2 wrote: »

Whether you admit it or not, motorists rarely impinge on pedestrians within their sphere. It is highly unusual to see a motorist in a pedestrian zone or cutting across someone as they cross on a green light. Parking on footpaths, while annoying in the extreme (and widespread) is a different matter because a motorist will nearly always yield complete right of way to a pedestrian before doing so. So, it is very rare for a pedestrian to be affected by the rule-breaking of motorists anywhere but at crossings - i.e. in the place where the two spheres overlap.

It's stunning show of bias or a massively poor backtrack that you think driving and parking on footpaths is somehow "motorists rarely impinge on pedestrians within their sphere".

And, as for motorists running reds lights and cutting across pedestrian's green lights, where do you walk that you don't see this happening?

1 sheep2 wrote: »

The second is a pathetic attempt to see significance where none exists.

Sure, how people talk about things and the phrases they use have no significance.... except research shows the way things are talked about has significance: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590198219300727

1 sheep2 wrote: »

If I've interpreted your garbled writing properly, you're accusing me of lying about being a cyclist to disguise an anti-cyclist agenda. Given that I don't and have never driven, and that I've expressed in a post that you quote below how frequently I reprimand motorists, it seems unlikely that I would side with motorists against cyclists.

I didn't say anything about motorists there and nor did I say you were lying -- you're reading things which are not there. I said you were using phrases other people use.

1 sheep2 wrote: »

You're a terrible, terrible writer. What even to say in response?

Actually try to come up with something rather than cheap shots?

1 sheep2 wrote: »

Cyclists have repeatedly asserted that it is a minority of cyclists that break rules, while simultaneously justifying why they themselves do it.

People have not merely explained why it happens; they have asserted their moral right to doing it.

I'll leave the third to rot where it is.

Research has shown law breaking with people who cycle isn't at abnormal levels and people tend to justify what they do when others criticise them.

As for leaving my point on your confusion to rot... Not at all -- in this thread you clearly misunderstood a reasonable clear joke as being a serous post. The other poster corrected you straight after your post.

1 sheep2 wrote: »

What does this even mean? Are you defending the motorists in the instances I describe, having earlier described their rampant misbehaviour?

People are focusing on how you post overall.

You posting one or two posts where you say you got angry at motorists does not really wash away the rest.

1 sheep2 wrote: »

Again, I can barely discern a sense to this. Loosing an argument? Zealots like you have merely moved the goalposts. There has been no static argument to lose.

Boards.ie will be better off when you're gone.

Name calling is a clear sign if somebody looking an argument. But keep it up, it just shows us all where you are at.

monument · 31-05-2020 7:07pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

Again NOT a parked car, how many injuries or deaths do you have for parked cars. I'll give you one that happened to me, I was walking between vehicles in a multistory car park and hit my shin on a towball. I'm sure it probably happens on footpaths with cars parked as well BUT I'm not the one throwing in stats about deaths to try and secure points that are actually irrelevant to the topic of cyclists riding on the footpath and cars parked on the footpath.

Spook_ie wrote: »

Still unlikely to find many cases of people being being killed or injured by cars parked on footpaths, I daresay that the anecdotal evidence suports the theory that cyclists injure more peple on footpaths than parked cars.

One second you're ok with anecdotal evidence and then the next you want stats... do you want your cake and eat it too?

1 sheep2 wrote: »

These people cannot see significance beyond physical injury. It's comical.

Agreed. Dreadful attitude from Spook_ie.

Hurrache · 31-05-2020 7:11pm

Tbh I've no idea why this is an issue at all. I rarely meet anyone who is beyond their teens on a footpath, in fact I couldn't tell you the last time I even noticed one.

That tells you more about those looking to seek offence, driven by the likes of Pat Kenny and others overtly shouty in the media (and hypocritical taxi drivers, bikes are a dog whistle to them) than the perceived problem.

I've been walked into by people more often than any other form of transport, probably because parked cars left less space for us. And I moved on with my life.

Untwist yer knickers.

1 sheep2 · 31-05-2020 7:12pm

monument wrote: »

It's stunning show of bias or a massively poor backtrack that you think driving and parking on footpaths is somehow "motorists rarely impinge on pedestrians within their sphere".

And, as for motorists running reds lights and cutting across pedestrian's green lights, where do you walk that you don't see this happening?

It's not in the slightest. There is a clear difference between encountering a parked car and a moving cyclist whose motives are unclear.

Motorists run red lights (something that frustrates me endlessly) only at the very beginning of their phases. Given the number of cars on the road, it is exceedingly rare to see a car break a light outside of that. Cyclists, on the other hand, frequently cut across pedestrians long after the pedestrian light has gone green.

There's nothing else in your post worthy of response.

Spook_ie · 31-05-2020 7:15pm

monument wrote: »

The number of people majorly injured by cyclists on footpaths seem to be low in Ireland... unless you have figures to show otherwise? There seems to be more notable cases of motorists mounting footpaths and killing pedestrians.

Spook_ie wrote: »

As I said, try to stay on topic and maybe look at the figures for deaths by parked cars.

monument wrote: »

Even when you're replying to me, back seat moderating won't be tolerated

-- moderator

Not back seat moderating, just pointing out that you are posting something that has nothing to do with my posts. Sorry and all that if you think it's back seat moderating rather than taking your posts and pointing out the ridicule that they deserve.

Spook_ie · 31-05-2020 7:18pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

They are not killed by the car once it’s parked... it’s while mounting the pavement the the damage is done.

Which, considering the basis of the topic is cars parked on footpaths and cyclists on footpaths I think Thelonius is just a tad incongruous in pointing out deaths so far this year.

Pinch Flat · 31-05-2020 7:25pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

So the message is that you can break the law and intimidate other people because the alternative isn't appealing? Anyhow you said the park was 3km away not 20? Cycling on a footpath for 20Km would be a gross act of loutery.

13 year olds we are talking about here. The roads are actually more intimidating for cyclists - people with the motoring centric view won't see that though. And I guess you have to offset the illegality of cycling on paths with having youngsters return safely, as it's people in cars driving illegally - speeding, on phones, close passing - they will likely put them in more danger. All about proportionality.

Anyway today's cycle was 17.5km all in. Mixture of footpaths (I'd say about 5-6km) and the new cycle lanes in the park - he did remark that a motorist overtook them and pulled into the newly formed cycle lane at chesterfield avenue to do a three point turn - seemingly oblivious of the cyclists using the cycle lanes on both sides of the avenue.

I'll ask him to make sure he walks it next time because someone on the internet is offended.

Spook_ie · 31-05-2020 7:25pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So you're just kicking up a fuss about a non issue, cyclists do not harm people on footpaths, maybe the odd accident, but joggers are probably as dangerous. Going on about it because you don't like cyclists. Have you nothing better to be doing?

No nothing better to be doing other than pulling you up over fake news, as I recall, it was you're sudden claim of the 18 deaths being posted in the middle of the thread that led me to interject in the first place. Now if you have something that substantiates the 18 deaths were caused by motorists being parked then feel free to lead me to the articles, I'm sure they would have been reported somewhere.

1 sheep2 · 31-05-2020 7:32pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

They are not killed by the car once it’s parked... it’s while mounting the pavement the the damage is done.

Let me set out my stall: the conduct of drivers causes me more irritation than almost anything else in my daily life. I hate that they ignore that the amber light means stop unless it is unsafe to do so, instead speeding up. And that their tendency to run the red light means traffic light phasing has to be adjusted to accommodate it. I hate that they don't realise that pedestrians have effectively the same rights as at a zebra crossing when crossing at a junction between a primary and secondary road. And I hate that they park on footpaths. I am forever pushing wing-mirrors forward in the hope that they will return and be left wondering how hard might the smack have been which adjusted it, discouraging them from doing it in future. But...

Motorists cause next to no danger when mounting a footpath. They are almost universally cautious of pedestrians and yield fully in almost all instances. The idea that motorists mounting curbs is markedly dangerous is nonsense. What it is is irritating and rude, which are exactly the same gripes pedestrians have with cyclists.

micar · 31-05-2020 7:36pm

Both of those accidents didn't occur on a footpath.

The guy involved in the UK accident which happened 4 years ago was using a track bike with 1 brake which was illegal to use on the roads. This type of cyclist is an extreme exception.

The ranalagh accident occurred in March 2018 and occurred in the bike lane. The pedestrian stepped out in front of the cyclist.

****The post with the links was removed by the person who posted it***

Here they are
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/18/cyclist-charlie-alliston-jailed-for-18-months-over-death-of-pedestrian

https://www.thejournal.ie/woman-critical-collision-cyclist-3920019-Mar2018/?amp=1

Spook_ie · 31-05-2020 7:38pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So you're just kicking up a fuss about a non issue, cyclists do not harm people on footpaths, maybe the odd accident, but joggers are probably as dangerous. Going on about it because you don't like cyclists. Have you nothing better to be doing?

https://irishcycle.com/2020/01/07/collision-between-pedestrian-and-cyclist-leaves-70-year-old-in-critical-condition/

fatal result of the above

https://irishcycle.com/2020/01/10/man-dies-after-collision-between-cyclist-and-pedestrian-on-n24-in/

One odd accident is probably one too many, but yet again the cycle forums brush it under the carpet and bang on about the number of deaths caused by cars in a thread about cyclists on footpaths, odd in itself really.

ewc78 · 31-05-2020 7:40pm

Pinch Flat wrote: »

13 year olds we are talking about here. The roads are actually more intimidating for cyclists - people with the motoring centric view won't see that though. And I guess you have to offset the illegality of cycling on paths with having youngsters return safely, as it's people in cars driving illegally - speeding, on phones, close passing - they will likely put them in more danger. All about proportionality.

I'll ask him to make sure he walks it next time because someone on the internet is offended.

Ah here you can't blame everything on motorists. Teenagers on bikes are a menace on the roads where I live, not everyone who drives are a car is out to get a cyclist.
There is a group near me who are constantly flying up and down a busy road on bikes doing wheelies and ignoring any cars that are on the road, or cycling while looking at their phones, or cycling in large groups in the centre of the road.

Yes, I understand cyclists in general must feel unsafe on the roads as there are brutal drivers out there, but cyclists have to take responsibility for their own actions also, it can't always be the motorists fault.

Spook_ie · 31-05-2020 7:44pm

micar wrote: »

Both of those accidents didn't occur on a footpath.

The guy involved in the UK accident which happened 4 years ago was using a track bike with 1 brake which was illegal to use on the roads. This type of cyclist is an extreme exception.

The ranalagh accident occurred in March 2018 and occurred in the bike lane. The pedestrian stepped out in front of the cyclist.

****The post with the links was removed by the person who posted it***

That's all right you can go to the one in Jan 2020

https://irishcycle.com/2020/01/07/collision-between-pedestrian-and-cyclist-leaves-70-year-old-in-critical-condition/

https://irishcycle.com/2020/01/10/man-dies-after-collision-between-cyclist-and-pedestrian-on-n24-in/

micar · 31-05-2020 7:55pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

That's all right you can go to the one in Jan 2020

https://irishcycle.com/2020/01/07/collision-between-pedestrian-and-cyclist-leaves-70-year-old-in-critical-condition/

https://irishcycle.com/2020/01/10/man-dies-after-collision-between-cyclist-and-pedestrian-on-n24-in/

I was fully aware of this. Both are in relation to the same accident. This didn't occur on a footpath.

Hardly brushed under the carpet as the link you gave is from a cycling website.

That is the first pedestrian death in 15+ years.

Prior to this year, the last fatality was the cyclist 4 years ago. The collision with the pedestrian occurred in the cycle lane.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/cyclist-killed-in-phoenix-park-collision-was-loving-family-man-36386300.html

Zebra3 · 31-05-2020 8:04pm

SeanW wrote: »

Because if you're going to call Irish motorists in some way bad, there has to be some kind of standard. What are you comparing Irish motorists to? World experience? European norms? Some nonsensical zero-standard that world experience shows is next to impossible?

So what's the acceptable number of people that motorists can kill each year?

07Lapierre · 31-05-2020 8:09pm

1 sheep2 wrote: »

Let me set out my stall: the conduct of drivers causes me more irritation than almost anything else in my daily life. I hate that they ignore that the amber light means stop unless it is unsafe to do so, instead speeding up. And that their tendency to run the red light means traffic light phasing has to be adjusted to accommodate it. I hate that they don't realise that pedestrians have effectively the same rights as at a zebra crossing when crossing at a junction between a primary and secondary road. And I hate that they park on footpaths. I am forever pushing wing-mirrors forward in the hope that they will return and be left wondering how hard might the smack have been which adjusted it, discouraging them from doing it in future. But...

Motorists cause next to no danger when mounting a footpath. They are almost universally cautious of pedestrians and yield fully in almost all instances. The idea that motorists mounting curbs is markedly dangerous is nonsense. What it is is irritating and rude, which are exactly the same gripes pedestrians have with cyclists.

Well that's telling me!

ah sure that's grand so, just mount the kerb at a reasonable speed and with due consideration for others. Sure what harm eh?

Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

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