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Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

Rogerrabit

Hi cycling in footpaths is very dangerous for pedestrians especially now with this virus pandemic. Every day I witness these events cyclists on the footpaths spewing out germs as they cycle past pedestrians less than two feet from them. If any of these cyclists have the virus the pedestrians have no chance they will pick up the disease. Why do the police allow this carry on. They should be protecting the elderly instead of turning a blind eye to this outrageous carryon. What do yo think out there in Ireland the country whose population do not know how to wear a facemask.

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SeanW

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why would you think that international comparisons are relevant?

Because if you're going to call Irish motorists in some way bad, there has to be some kind of standard. What are you comparing Irish motorists to? World experience? European norms? Some nonsensical zero-standard that world experience shows is next to impossible?

It really doesn't matter in the slightest how good or bad things are in other countries.

On what planet do international comparisons "not matter in the slightest"

you're specifically talking trash about Irish drivers?

The relevant comparison is to compare against the option of not killing two or three people each week.

How is that an "option"?

Remember that even in countries with more severe regulations on motorists, road deaths still occur. Case in point is Canada, where laws regulating motorists are very strict and the process for gaining a full driving license takes a multitude of tests and stretches out over many years. And yet Irish drivers compare very well to Canadian drivers.
Road fatalities per 100,000 people per year:
Canada: 5.8
Ireland: 4.1

Road fatalities per 100,000 vehicles per year:
Canada: 8.9
Ireland: 7.5

Road fatalities per billion kilometres traveled:
Canada: 5.1
Ireland: 3.8

And this bears repeating, and emphasising: Canadian drivers are more heavily regulated than Irish drivers, yet Canada still suffers more road fatalities by every measure. So what in Hades are you looking for?

Yeah, bloody hypocrites killing one person each decade, while improving public health, avoid toxic emissions and reducing traffic chaos. Who the hell do they think they are?

Cyclists (at least some, maybe not all) seem to have two mantras:

Rules for thee, not for me.
But, but,but ... whatabout!

Again, your own personal experience isn't a great yardstick for measuring safety, given the ever-present risk of confirmation bias.

I've been a daily pedestrian for many years. I know when I've been in danger, and when I have not. And every time a motorist has done something that put me in danger, speed was not the issue. Every. single. time. As long as both myself as a pedestrian and the motorists are obeying traffic controls, the speed of the vehicles (within reason) is a low concern.

I can only imagine that families and friends of the increased number of road victims might have a different view to you on the relevance of these stats. I'm not sure that being told that your dead father/brother/mother/child is a statistical variance is going to give much comfort.

A fact does not cease to be a fact, simply because it is ignored. Nor does it cease to be a fact simply because it does not "give much comfort." That's not how facts work.

TaurenDruid

RoversCeltic wrote: »

It is illegal to cycle on paths or is that a misconception?

It is illegal to cycle on footpaths.

TaurenDruid

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

oh here's another

https://theliberal.ie/breaking-woman-50s-killed-after-been-hit-by-a-car-driven-on-the-footpath-following-an-armed-robbery-in-dublin/

there are countless.
so I don't get why people on bikes is something that garners so much rage. It may be a mild inconvenience to you the odd time but it doesn't warrant all the sh*te we have to listen to about it as if they're blasting ebola pellets in your face with a shotgun as they cycle past you.

Once again - whataboutery. But what whataboutery, at that!

"Armed robbers kill more people than cyclists on footpaths!"

Yes, yes they do.

If you want a thread giving about armed robbers killing people by driving on footpaths, maybe start such a thread. I mean, it's a pretty bizarre example to throw up here.

If that's not what the article actually describes, apologies, but it's a liberal dot ie link and I'm not giving that plagiarised rag a click.

RoversCeltic

It is illegal to cycle on paths or is that a misconception?

Spook_ie

monument wrote: »

The number of people majorly injured by cyclists on footpaths seem to be low in Ireland... unless you have figures to show otherwise? There seems to be more notable cases of motorists mounting footpaths and killing pedestrians.

As I said, try to stay on topic and maybe look at the figures for deaths by parked cars.

Thelonious Monk

Spook_ie wrote: »

The discussion is parked cars, I didn't say anywhere that people on footpaths have never been hit by a moving vehicle.

Again apples or oranges not both.

can you tell me why an article about a pedestrian killed by a driver of a car gets 2 or 3 comments under the news article saying RIP, but if a cyclist is killed it gets 100s blaming cyclists?
because there is an irrational hatred of cyclists for god knows what reason, car drivers see them as an inconvenience as they may actually have to concentrate on their driving when they're around them.

Spook_ie

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well there's this

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/1218/1101993-rosemarie-gallagher/

and this

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/jogger-dies-after-being-hit-by-van-in-dublin-1.4193127

these are just recent, cars mounting pedestrian areas and killing and maiming people. But yes bikes are the real danger.

The discussion is parked cars, I didn't say anywhere that people on footpaths have never been hit by a moving vehicle.

Again apples or oranges not both.

Thelonious Monk

oh here's another

https://theliberal.ie/breaking-woman-50s-killed-after-been-hit-by-a-car-driven-on-the-footpath-following-an-armed-robbery-in-dublin/

there are countless.
so I don't get why people on bikes is something that garners so much rage. It may be a mild inconvenience to you the odd time but it doesn't warrant all the sh*te we have to listen to about it as if they're blasting ebola pellets in your face with a shotgun as they cycle past you.

monument

1 sheep2 wrote: »

This is a really disappointing contribution from a mod. Hostile, badly written...

When I'm posting normally, I'm posting normally, I'm not moderating. I take a light touch as possable on thread like this except, for example, when people are back seat moderating. Moderation is not up for in-thread discussion.

Please read the commuting and transport charter or just don't commenting on moderation in-thread again, thank you.

-- moderator

Spook_ie

07Lapierre wrote: »

Parking cars on the pavement is selfish behaviour which shows a total disregard be the car owner of other people. They block the pavement forcing parents with kids to walk on the road. People in wheelchairs are also inconvenienced. And as for blind people? Parked cars must be a nightmare for them!

Still unlikely to find many cases of people being being killed or injured by cars parked on footpaths, I daresay that the anecdotal evidence suports the theory that cyclists injure more peple on footpaths than parked cars.

And I never said it wasn't selfish, just that when people suddenly splurge in the middle of a thread about motorists killing people that they need reining in.

Thelonious Monk

Spook_ie wrote: »

You should really be comparing apples with apples, how many people have been killed by parked cars?
Are there a comparable number of people injured by parked cars on footpaths as to people injured by cyclists on footpaths?

Well there's this

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/1218/1101993-rosemarie-gallagher/

and this

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/jogger-dies-after-being-hit-by-van-in-dublin-1.4193127

these are just recent, cars mounting pedestrian areas and killing and maiming people. But yes bikes are the real danger.

monument

Spook_ie wrote: »

You should really be comparing apples with apples, how many people have been killed by parked cars?
Are there a comparable number of people injured by parked cars on footpaths as to people injured by cyclists on footpaths?

The number of people majorly injured by cyclists on footpaths seem to be low in Ireland... unless you have figures to show otherwise? There seems to be more notable cases of motorists mounting footpaths and killing pedestrians.

ewc78

Cyclists can use the footpath all they want for all I care. I run on the cycle lanes the whole time anyway, to give walkers space when they are with their kids or dogs or whatever. Dog walkers very rarely pull the dogs lead in so I just stay in the cycle lane.
And I'm sure seeing as none of the cyclists here see anything wrong with cycling on a footpath, then they should have no issues with me running in the cycle lane?

07Lapierre

Spook_ie wrote: »

You should really be comparing apples with apples, how many people have been killed by parked cars?
Are there a comparable number of people injured by parked cars on footpaths as to people injured by cyclists on footpaths?

Parking cars on the pavement is selfish behaviour which shows a total disregard be the car owner of other people. They block the pavement forcing parents with kids to walk on the road. People in wheelchairs are also inconvenienced. And as for blind people? Parked cars must be a nightmare for them!

Charles Babbage

Thelonious Monk wrote:

Why is there so much hype about this lately? Is it not a great thing that people are out on bikes in any capacity? Has anyone been injured by cyclists on footpaths?
Why don't people go nuts ringing radio shows about illegally parked cars absolutely everywhere? There are 7 outside my house right now illegally parked, just strewn around the place.
There have been 18 pedestrians KILLED, yes KILLED, by people driving cars this year - but this doesn't seem to bother anyone?
Why isn't Pat Kenny going nuts about this?
Seriously, get your priorities right, bikes are not a danger to anyone.

Here we go again with more whataboutery are you trying to win a prize?

Saying that people do not get killed is not an excuse for anything otherwise every class of rape and robbery would be OK.

People do not get killed by parked cars either.

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Ah yeah fair comment. Hes a careful enough chap. Respectful of others. He prefers to cycle, they'll do a few laps of the park and head home. Walking 20 odd km I guess just doesn't appeal to him.

So the message is that you can break the law and intimidate other people because the alternative isn't appealing? Anyhow you said the park was 3km away not 20? Cycling on a footpath for 20Km would be a gross act of loutery.

1 sheep2

This is a really disappointing contribution from a mod. Hostile, badly written...

monument wrote: »

LOL... cars are confined to roads... yet, it doesn't take long traveling around urban areas in Ireland before you find cars on footpaths, cycle paths, cycle lanes, and even on top of grass verges etc.

It also says a lot that it's pedestrians, cyclists, but cars.... since when has Ireland had any driverless cars? It's easier to brush over wrong doing when you're not thinking about the humans involved.

Whether you admit it or not, motorists rarely impinge on pedestrians within their sphere. It is highly unusual to see a motorist in a pedestrian zone or cutting across someone as they cross on a green light. Parking on footpaths, while annoying in the extreme (and widespread) is a different matter because a motorist will nearly always yield complete right of way to a pedestrian before doing so. So, it is very rare for a pedestrian to be affected by the rule-breaking of motorists anywhere but at crossings - i.e. in the place where the two spheres overlap.

The second is a pathetic attempt to see significance where none exists.

Hmm... "cycling lobbyists on twitter" and "I'm a cyclist too" is the type of phrases used by anti-cycle path people in the UK and Cork council people who don't campaigners calling for action on cars parking in cycle lanes and inaction by the council.

If I've interpreted your garbled writing properly, you're accusing me of lying about being a cyclist to disguise an anti-cyclist agenda. Given that I don't and have never driven, and that I've expressed in a post that you quote below how frequently I reprimand motorists, it seems unlikely that I would side with motorists against cyclists.

It's insane... that (a) much of anything on this thread can be seen as "some cyclists denying that cyclists break the rules", (b) that you expect in a thread about something that you won't get people explaining why that something happens, or (c) you misunderstanding the words being posted by others due to your perspectives on these type of issues.

You're a terrible, terrible writer. What even to say in response?

Cyclists have repeatedly asserted that it is a minority of cyclists that break rules, while simultaneously justifying why they themselves do it.

People have not merely explained why it happens; they have asserted their moral right to doing it.

I'll leave the third to rot where it is.

You'll find that people's perceptions of you is based on what you have said and your focus and way of talking about things.

What does this even mean? Are you defending the motorists in the instances I describe, having earlier described their rampant misbehaviour?!

That's really poor coming from the person who thinks "that pedestrians are confined to footpaths and cars to roads, yet cyclists can pick and choose, deciding on which laws to follow". Engaging with an issue and then calling it "whataboutery" when you're clearly loosing the argument is a bad look.

Again, I can barely discern a sense to this. Loosing an argument? Zealots like you have merely moved the goalposts. There has been no static argument to lose.

Boards.ie will be better off when you're gone.

Casey78

monument wrote: »

Please stop telling people what they can or cannot say on threads. And please read the Boards.ie commuting and transport charter Before posting again.

— moderator

I have no interest in reading any of that.Thanks.

07Lapierre

I don’t cycle on the footpad. It’s too much hassle. They’re usually clogged with people walking, blocked by cars, blocked by street furniture and have “ramps” at every driveway entrance which make cycling at any sort of speed very irritating! They are also dangerous as people drive their cars out of driveways don’t expect cyclists to be on the footpad. In short don’t do it! (P.s. it’s also illegal)

TaurenDruid

Casey78 wrote: »

I personally have no issue with cyclists on a footpath if I'm being honest. Once they move to get out of my way and not make me move to get out of theirs then they can cycle wherever they want for all I care.

My walk to the office from the bus stop to the office and back and other city centre places got a lot more interesting when I realised that no, I don't have to get out of the cyclist's way!

Yer man Thelonius obviously is never around the city centre at rush hour or lunchtime. No kids on the footpath there. Which isn't what the thread is about, anyway. Plenty of adults, though.

Admittedly my andecdata is skewed because I regularly pass a congregation spot for bike couriers and several fast food restaurants, so the footpaths there are polluted with Deliveroo cyclists.

monument

Casey78 wrote: »

Fully agree that is an issue that needs to be addressed, as someone with 3 small kids im often inconvenienced by cars parked on footpaths and I cant get a buggy past.That isn't what the thread is about though so maybe you should start one about that issue?

I personally have no issue with cyclists on a footpath if I'm being honest. Once they move to get out of my way and not make me move to get out of theirs then they can cycle wherever they want for all I care.

Please stop telling people what they can or cannot say on threads. And please read the Boards.ie commuting and transport charter Before posting again.

— moderator

Spook_ie

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Why is there so much hype about this lately? Is it not a great thing that people are out on bikes in any capacity? Has anyone been injured by cyclists on footpaths?
Why don't people go nuts ringing radio shows about illegally parked cars absolutely everywhere? There are 7 outside my house right now illegally parked, just strewn around the place.
There have been 18 pedestrians KILLED, yes KILLED, by people driving cars this year - but this doesn't seem to bother anyone?
Why isn't Pat Kenny going nuts about this?
Seriously, get your priorities right, bikes are not a danger to anyone.

You should really be comparing apples with apples, how many people have been killed by parked cars?
Are there a comparable number of people injured by parked cars on footpaths as to people injured by cyclists on footpaths?

magicbastarder

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Do you think it is wise to give out the message that he should just do what he likes and screw everyone else. It is wholly unnecessary, you could walk 3km in half an hour.

Ah yes, the obvious solution. If it's too dangerous to do something perfectly reasonable, the suggestion is not 'let us address the danger', it's 'well you should stop doing that'.

Casey78

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Yeah the same clowns who'll happily plonk two wheels of their car on the path and not give a ****e. The footpaths around my estate are barely useable by people with prams due to rampant abuse of the footpaths by careless motorists. Where they're wider, people will park the whole car on the path.

Fully agree that is an issue that needs to be addressed, as someone with 3 small kids im often inconvenienced by cars parked on footpaths and I cant get a buggy past.That isn't what the thread is about though so maybe you should start one about that issue?

I personally have no issue with cyclists on a footpath if I'm being honest. Once they move to get out of my way and not make me move to get out of theirs then they can cycle wherever they want for all I care.

Pinch Flat

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Kids are going to cycle on the path no matter what, or cycle wherever they can really. Should we ban kids from cycling? Of course not.
The only threat on the paths or roads are motorised vehicles. Giving out about cyclists is just f*cking frustrated old twats with nothing better to do. I'm sick to death of it.

Yeah the same clowns who'll happily plonk two wheels of their car on the path and not give a ****e. The footpaths around my estate are barely useable by people with prams due to rampant abuse of the footpaths by careless motorists. Where they're wider, people will park the whole car on the path.

Thelonious Monk

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Ah yeah fair comment. Hes a careful enough chap. Respectful of others. He prefers to cycle, they'll do a few laps of the park and head home.

Kids are going to cycle on the path no matter what, or cycle wherever they can really. Should we ban kids from cycling? Of course not.
The only threat on the paths or roads are motorised vehicles. Giving out about cyclists is just f*cking frustrated old twats with nothing better to do. I'm sick to death of it.

Pinch Flat

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Do you think it is wise to give out the message that he should just do what he likes and screw everyone else. It is wholly unnecessary, you could walk 3km in half an hour.

Ah yeah fair comment. Hes a careful enough chap. Respectful of others. He prefers to cycle, they'll do a few laps of the park and head home. Walking 20 odd km I guess just doesn't appeal to him.

Thelonious Monk

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Do you think it is wise to give out the message that he should just do what he likes and screw everyone else. It is wholly unnecessary, you could walk 3km in half an hour.

It's harmless. People have an irrational hatred of cyclists in this country for some reason. People are not going to stop cycling on footpaths any time soon so suck it up, it causes no harm to anyone.
And the only people I see on footpaths are usually adults with tiny kids, to get away from cars.
There are far bigger things to worry about.

Thelonious Monk

Why is there so much hype about this lately? Is it not a great thing that people are out on bikes in any capacity? Has anyone been injured by cyclists on footpaths?
Why don't people go nuts ringing radio shows about illegally parked cars absolutely everywhere? There are 7 outside my house right now illegally parked, just strewn around the place.
There have been 18 pedestrians KILLED, yes KILLED, by people driving cars this year - but this doesn't seem to bother anyone?
Why isn't Pat Kenny going nuts about this?
Seriously, get your priorities right, bikes are not a danger to anyone.

J_E

Rogerrabit wrote: »

Maybe those who cycle on footpaths just want to annoy ordinary folk because as we are all aware cycling interferes with your libido and as a result of sexual frustration they want to upset happy healthy walkers.

Are you just here to troll, so?

Charles Babbage

Pinch Flat wrote: »

My 13 year old son and his mates have taken to the bikes during the current restrictions. Great to see them getting some exercise and fresh air. I've no problem with him cycling the 3km or so from our house to the Phoenix park, on the condition he stays on the paths. The roads are full of impatient and irresponsible drivers who will quite easily put him needlessly at risk to get ahead or to a red light a few seconds earlier.

Once this behaviour changes, I might consider letting him out on the road

Do you think it is wise to give out the message that he should just do what he likes and screw everyone else. It is wholly unnecessary, you could walk 3km in half an hour.